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Shane Ross to clean up savage and brutal MMA

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    #32
    FTA69
    Registered Users Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »
    Where are your stats that it's less dangerous than swimming?

    http://www.swimmingpoolnews.co.uk/pages/news98.html

    In 2010 alone six people died in swimming pools, a far greater number died swimming in the sea and in various other water outlets. None were killed practicing MMA.

    You get the idea.


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    #33
    mansize
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,521 ✭✭✭✭mansize


    FTA69 wrote: »
    http://www.swimmingpoolnews.co.uk/pages/news98.html

    In 2010 alone six people died in swimming pools, a far greater number died swimming in the sea and in various other water outlets. None were killed practicing MMA.

    You get the idea.

    Competition swimming? I'm sure there were deaths in unlicensed MMA


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    #34
    FTA69
    Registered Users Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    mansize wrote: »
    I am not calling for a ban, I'm calling for regulation- do you support that?

    Define regulation, it's a loose concept.

    The sport already has comprehensive rules. The only reason it's not recognised as a sport is because the gobsh*tes in the martial arts council won't admit it and as such the sports council won't recognise it independently.

    Irish MMA has been pushing for years for official recognition and the rest of it.


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    #35
    FTA69
    Registered Users Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    mansize wrote: »
    Competition swimming? I'm sure there were deaths in unlicensed MMA

    Nope. People killed in boxing rings alright but none in an MMA fight in the UK ever.


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    #36
    mansize
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,521 ✭✭✭✭mansize


    FTA69 wrote: »
    Define regulation, it's a loose concept.

    The sport already has comprehensive rules. The only reason it's not recognised as a sport is because the gobsh*tes in the martial arts council won't admit it and as such the sports council won't recognise it independently.

    Irish MMA has been pushing for years for official recognition and the rest of it.

    Regulation that put the fighter's safety as the paramount concern as the BBBC were forced to do post mcclellan and Watson


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    #37
    eeguy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,478 ✭✭✭eeguy


    There was a large thread here recently discussing a similar topic.

    Not a single person can prove MMA is more dangerous than boxing or any other highly physical sport.

    People die or get injured no matter what they're doing.
    Lads have been killed or blinded playing hurling.
    Lads have had permanent, debilitating injuries from rugby
    Plenty of jockeys have died in horseracing and mototsports.

    To suggest a ban or curtailing the sports would be considered madness. I don't know why this is being entertained.

    Also, funny how the only thing Shane Ross has done since becoming minister is fly to Brazil to talk to Patrick Hickey and this.
    You'd think all the transport strikes would be a more useful way to spend his time.


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    #38
    mansize
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,521 ✭✭✭✭mansize


    FTA69 wrote: »
    Nope. People killed in boxing rings alright but none in an MMA fight in the UK ever.

    But here in Ireland - there has been a fatality.

    Minister Ross has no jurisdiction in the UK


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    #39
    mansize
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,521 ✭✭✭✭mansize


    eeguy wrote: »
    There was a large thread here recently discussing a similar topic.

    Not a single person can prove MMA is more dangerous than boxing or any other highly physical sport.

    People die or get injured no matter what they're doing.
    Lads have been killed or blinded playing hurling.
    Lads have had permanent, debilitating injuries from rugby
    Plenty of jockeys have died in horseracing and mototsports.

    To suggest a ban or curtailing the sports would be considered madness. I don't know why this is being entertained.

    Also, funny how the only thing Shane Ross has done since becoming minister is fly to Brazil to talk to Patrick Hickey and this.
    You'd think all the transport strikes would be a more useful way to spend his time.

    All sporting organisations have a duty of care to participants
    Rules of all regulated sports have been updated to prevent foreseen injury and risk of same


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    #40
    eeguy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,478 ✭✭✭eeguy


    tigger123 wrote: »
    Unlike the other sports you mentioned, MMA fighters dont let up when your opponent is no longer able to defend him/herself. Never seen in that in cycling or swimming.

    Really?

    Have a look at the Rousey video from last week.
    https://youtu.be/P9pqAHO6LI8

    The ref stopped the fight as soon as she couldn't intelligently defend herself.
    If that was boxing they'd send her back into the ring after a 30 second breather and a wipe with a damp sponge.


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    #41
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »
    http://www.the42.ie/shane-ross-mma-disturbing-3172984-Jan2017/

    I'm no fan of Shane Ross, but I welcome this move. It's high time that people called MMA out for what it is (legitimised thuggery)

    Minister Ross plans to have the 'sport' tightly regulated. I would actually prefer an outright ban, but hopefully his regulation of the sport helps remove some of the more disturbing aspects.

    Still banned from the MMA forum for trolling, saying McGregor should retire back in March and is only going to embarrass himself etc?

    Must have been a particularly salty year. :pac:


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    #42
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    mansize wrote: »
    Regulation should be welcomed by all who wish the sport to evolve and become safer for participants

    While this has truth, Ross says he wants to make it "as safe as any other sport" which doesn't really make sense as boxing or rugby aren't exactly as safe as snooker or the 100m sprint.


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    #43
    eeguy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,478 ✭✭✭eeguy


    mansize wrote: »
    All sporting organisations have a duty of care to participants
    Rules of all regulated sports have been updated to prevent foreseen injury and risk of same
    Yes and that's why there's plenty of rules in MMA to prevent injury.
    I don't understand how people see it as different from any other combat sport.

    Sure you get punched on the ground, but part of the training is defending yourself from the ground.


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    #44
    FTA69
    Registered Users Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    mansize wrote: »
    But here in Ireland - there has been a fatality.

    Minister Ross has no jurisdiction in the UK

    You're moving the goalposts now. I pointed out correctly that on the whole MMA had a lower fatality rate than swimming and cycling and other such sports. Yes, we had one tragic fatality last year in Ireland but many more in other related sports and strenuous activities thus portraying MMA as some sort of unusually death-prone activity is disingenuous nonsense.

    So you say the only regulation you want to see is them putting fighters welfare first, that's not a regulation that's an ethos.

    Also citing boxing as an example of regulation is pretty much the worst comparison you can make considering ten boxers die every year in the ring. We had two high profile ones in the UK last year and Nick Blackwell nearly made the list. But yet boxing isn't being exposed to the same moral panic.


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    #45
    Help!!!!
    Registered Users Posts: 2,965 ✭✭✭Help!!!!


    Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »
    http://www.the42.ie/shane-ross-mma-disturbing-3172984-Jan2017/

    I'm no fan of Shane Ross, but I welcome this move. It's high time that people called MMA out for what it is (legitimised thuggery)

    Minister Ross plans to have the 'sport' tightly regulated. I would actually prefer an outright ban, but hopefully his regulation of the sport helps remove some of the more disturbing aspects.

    If you dont like or understand it, then dont watch or read about it.


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    #46
    mansize
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,521 ✭✭✭✭mansize


    FTA69 wrote: »
    You're moving the goalposts now. I pointed out correctly that on the whole MMA had a lower fatality rate than swimming and cycling and other such sports. Yes, we had one tragic fatality last year in Ireland but many more in other related sports and strenuous activities thus portraying MMA as some sort of unusually death-prone activity is disingenuous nonsense.

    So you say the only regulation you want to see is them putting fighters welfare first, that's not a regulation that's an ethos.

    Also citing boxing as an example of regulation is pretty much the worst comparison you can make considering ten boxers die every year in the ring. We had two high profile ones in the UK last year and Nick Blackwell nearly made the list. But yet boxing isn't being exposed to the same moral panic.

    Boxing is fighting the opposition permanently

    I
    Moved no goalposts we were discussing Shane Ross and regulation- he doesn't have power in U.K.

    There are other areas but fighter welfare is paramount

    The Blackwell fight was stopped too late


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    #47
    Allinall
    Registered Users Posts: 6,561 ✭✭✭Allinall


    Legalized thuggery.


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    #48
    ronnie085
    Registered Users Posts: 1,003 ✭✭✭ronnie085


    How come the few studies I found with a quick search show that there is a higher chance of injury in mma than other combat sports, including boxing with risk of death around same as boxing yet the line it's safer keeps on getting trotted out unchallenged, love to see where this safer stat comes from.....Anybody


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    #49
    Pintman Paddy Losty
    Registered Users Posts: 1,913 ✭✭✭Pintman Paddy Losty


    FTA69 wrote: »
    You're moving the goalposts now. I pointed out correctly that on the whole MMA had a lower fatality rate than swimming and cycling and other such sports. Yes, we had one tragic fatality last year in Ireland but many more in other related sports and strenuous activities thus portraying MMA as some sort of unusually death-prone activity is disingenuous nonsense.

    So you say the only regulation you want to see is them putting fighters welfare first, that's not a regulation that's an ethos.

    Also citing boxing as an example of regulation is pretty much the worst comparison you can make considering ten boxers die every year in the ring. We had two high profile ones in the UK last year and Nick Blackwell nearly made the list. But yet boxing isn't being exposed to the same moral panic.

    You're comparing apples and oranges. MMA is a tiny fringe 'sport'. Comparing it to well established and centuries old sports is silly. Of course boxing will have more fatalities. It's been recognised and regulated as a sport since 1890 or so.

    There's basically no difference between an MMA match and a group of tinker men gathering in a field to knock lumps out of each other.


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    #50
    eurokev
    Registered Users Posts: 964 ✭✭✭eurokev


    tigger123 wrote:
    It's not unreasonable to look for some sort of regulation after that Brazilian fighter died in Dublin recently.


    He was Portuguese.

    That should hopefully highlight how ignorant and ill informed you and other plonkers if your ilk are.


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    #51
    RayM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,973 ✭✭✭RayM


    mansize wrote: »
    Rugby is regulated

    Regulated thuggery.


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    #52
    TerrorFirmer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,930 ✭✭✭✭TerrorFirmer


    Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

    There's basically no difference between an MMA match and a group of tinker men gathering in a field to knock lumps out of each other.

    Clearly you've put a lot of thought into this structured and rational argument that delves into the very depths of the world of MMA.

    Is there a podcast I can listen to?


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    #53
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 20,004 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Pintman Paddy Losty wrote:
    I'm no fan of Shane Ross, but I welcome this move. It's high time that people called MMA out for what it is (legitimised thuggery)

    Yeah it's legitimate thuggery. That's the premise of sports. Create a strict set of rules and let people go at it. If Jamie Heaslip behaved like a rugby player on Grafton Street, he'd be arrested.

    Let people enjoy their sport. As long as nobody is forced to take part or watch, then you never gave to pay any attention to MMA.


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    #54
    FTA69
    Registered Users Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »
    You're comparing apples and oranges. MMA is a tiny fringe 'sport'. Comparing it to well established and centuries old sports is silly. Of course boxing will have more fatalities. It's been recognised and regulated as a sport since 1890 or so.

    There's basically no difference between an MMA match and a group of tinker men gathering in a field to knock lumps out of each other.

    Last year ten odd people died boxing, the year before that another ten people did, stretching all the way back to 1900. People, now, today, are dying from boxing and it is a more dangerous sport than MMA than a country mile as the fatality statistic per year bear out.

    And they aren't apples and oranges at all, if you accept that fighting can be construed as a sport via boxing then you swearing blind that fighting via MMA rules isn't a sport is simply ridiculous hypocrisy and double standard.

    Funnily enough, the travellers you're alluding to actually fight by old Queensbury boxing rules for the most part so generally would have more in common with that sport than MMA.


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    #55
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 75,544 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    FTA69 wrote: »
    I pointed out correctly that on the whole MMA had a lower fatality rate than swimming and cycling
    What an absurd comment. You are presumably talking about absolute numbers, while the term "rate" implies percentage of participants. How many take part in MMA? What proportion are killed (or seriously injured)? Compare that with the percentage of cyclists and swimmers killed (which is absolutely miniscule - there were 10 cyclists killed in Ireland last year and all of those deaths were completely accidental as is the case with swimming) or indeed seriously injured.


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    #56
    Pintman Paddy Losty
    Registered Users Posts: 1,913 ✭✭✭Pintman Paddy Losty


    FTA69 wrote: »
    Last year ten odd people died boxing, the year before that another ten people did, stretching all the way back to 1900. People, now, today, are dying from boxing and it is a more dangerous sport than MMA than a country mile as the fatality statistic per year bear out.

    And they aren't apples and oranges at all, if you accept that fighting can be construed as a sport via boxing then you swearing blind that fighting via MMA rules isn't a sport is simply ridiculous hypocrisy and double standard.

    Funnily enough, the travellers you're alluding to actually fight by old Queensbury boxing rules for the most part so generally would have more in common with that sport than MMA.

    You have an extremely poor grasp of how statistics work.

    Boxing is a far more popular sport with a much greater participation rate than MMA which isn't even classified as a sport in most of the world.


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    #57
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    I blame the cotton wool generation ,
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #58
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users Posts: 14,359 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    ronnie085 wrote: »
    How come the few studies I found with a quick search show that there is a higher chance of injury in mma than other combat sports, including boxing with risk of death around same as boxing yet the line it's safer keeps on getting trotted out unchallenged, love to see where this safer stat comes from.....Anybody

    Could you link to those studies that you found? How do they define 'injury'? For example, is a minor cut an injury?


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    #59
    FTA69
    Registered Users Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    ronnie085 wrote: »
    How come the few studies I found with a quick search show that there is a higher chance of injury in mma than other combat sports, including boxing with risk of death around same as boxing yet the line it's safer keeps on getting trotted out unchallenged, love to see where this safer stat comes from.....Anybody

    http://uk.askmen.com/sports/fanatic_300/316b_which-is-more-dangerous-boxing-or-mma.html

    There have been three recorded deaths in the history of MMA. In contrast to that boxing has an average of ten deaths per year.

    http://www.livestrong.com/article/507149-boxing-and-brain-damage-statistics/

    Your search skills are rubbish.


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    #60
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    ronnie085 wrote: »
    How come the few studies I found with a quick search show that there is a higher chance of injury in mma than other combat sports, including boxing with risk of death around same as boxing yet the line it's safer keeps on getting trotted out unchallenged, love to see where this safer stat comes from.....Anybody

    13 fatalities from MMA stretching back over 35 years (only 4 of which were sanctioned fights) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatalities_in_mixed_martial_arts_contests From 1998 to 2006 alone, there were 70 in boxing. As per FTA 10 more died from boxing just last year.

    MMA carries a bigger risk of limb injury, joint sprain and fracturing, whereas boxing carries a bigger risk of head injuries like concussions, haemotomas and contusions. I know which I consider more dangerous, how about you?


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    #61
    FTA69
    Registered Users Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    Beasty wrote: »
    What an absurd comment. You are presumably talking about absolute numbers, while the term "rate" implies percentage of participants. How many take part in MMA? What proportion are killed (or seriously injured)? Compare that with the percentage of cyclists and swimmers killed (which is absolutely miniscule - there were 10 cyclists killed in Ireland last year and all of those deaths were completely accidental as is the case with swimming) or indeed seriously injured.

    What proportion of MMA fighters are killed? A smaller one considering there are three recorded deaths in the 30 year history of a sport practiced in multiple countries on a daily basis. MMA is a nice sport, but it's still huge with a participation rate that is growing on a monthly basis both in Ireland and across the world.

    Will we see fatalities again? Probably, the same way we will in a raft of other sports but yet MMA somehow is barbarism personified despite it having less fatalities than other sports and definitely less fatalities than its cousin boxing which is apparently grand altogether.


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