Italy vs Ireland match thread

bilston · 27-02-2021 9:38pm

I think I'd be in the Ronan Kelleher camp now. But I'd have Herring on the bench as a security if the lineout goes south against Scotland.

Kelleher's carrying is huge. He gets gain line which then helps the rest of the team play off. Still, it was Italy, and Scotland will be a bigger test with a tougher defence to crack.

TRC10 · 27-02-2021 9:39pm

bilston wrote: »

I think I'd be in the Ronan Kelleher camp now. But I'd have Herring on the bench as a security if the lineout goes south against Scotland.

Kelleher's carrying is huge. He gets gain line which then helps the rest of the team play off. Still, it was Italy, and Scotland will be a bigger test with a tougher defence to crack.

It was Italy but he did it against France and Wales too

Brewster · 27-02-2021 9:42pm

TRC10 wrote: »

Hasn't he? He outperformed Herring when he came on in both games against Wales and France. He was very good again today
But one crooked throw means he can't be trusted? Herring might be slightly more reliable in the set piece but theres no debate as to who the better rugby player is.

Herring is much more reliable, provincial and Irish stats will back this up. Kelleher is the future, his bar is much higher, I am really excited for him, but I think Herring deserves to keep jersey just now. It’s a much better dynamic for Herring to start, with Kelleher to come on, rather than role reversal.

Burkie1203 · 27-02-2021 9:50pm

Brewster wrote: »

Herring is much more reliable, provincial and Irish stats will back this up. Kelleher is the future, his bar is much higher, I am really excited for him, but I think Herring deserves to keep jersey just now. It’s a much better dynamic for Herring to start, with Kelleher to come on, rather than role reversal.

What kelleher offers around the park far outweighs what Herring does. Therefore we need to give Kelleher a proper run. He can make his impact from the start.

Brewster · 27-02-2021 10:01pm

Burkie1203 wrote: »

What kelleher offers around the park far outweighs what Herring does. Therefore we need to give Kelleher a proper run. He can make his impact from the start.

If he can’t throw into the line out, under pressure, then it doesn’t matter what he does around the park. I’m not convinced yet that he can consistently deliver with his darts. He had two crooked throws today, one was missed by officials. It didn’t cost us today. England and Scotland have huge defensive line outs, and accuracy will need to be 100%. On this basis, Herring still edges it for me. But to be clear, hooker is not an area of concern for Ireland. We have bigger issues to deal with! We are blessed to have two excellent options.

TRC10 · 27-02-2021 10:06pm

Brewster wrote: »

Herring is much more reliable, provincial and Irish stats will back this up. Kelleher is the future, his bar is much higher, I am really excited for him, but I think Herring deserves to keep jersey just now. It’s a much better dynamic for Herring to start, with Kelleher to come on, rather than role reversal.

Kelleher had one crooked throw. One. Kelleher is so much better in every other aspect that this shouldn't be a debate. Kelleher's darts aren't even that bad. It's very trendy when a hooker is incredibly dynamic for people to say "oh his set piece isn't good enough". It's not as bad as it's made out to be and we have the best lineout in the championship this year. I'd gladly trade one lineout a game for what Kelleher offers around the field. Our lineout was a ****show last year no matter what hooker we started.

Kelleher will become more reliable. Herring has no chance of becoming the rugby player Kelleher is.

crossman47 · 27-02-2021 10:18pm

Faugheen wrote: »

Casey cost Lowe a try and nearly cost us a second one before Ireland mauled over.

Should never play again.

For Gods sake, the lad is only starting. he'll be great - the next Stringer.

salmocab · 27-02-2021 10:22pm

crossman47 wrote: »

For Gods sake, the lad is only starting. he'll be great - the next Stringer.

Pretty sure he wasn’t serious

Brewster · 27-02-2021 10:23pm

TRC10 wrote: »

Kelleher had one crooked throw. One. Kelleher is so much better in every other aspect that this shouldn't be a debate. Kelleher's darts aren't even that bad. It's very trendy when a hooker is incredibly dynamic for people to say "oh his set piece isn't good enough". It's not as bad as it's made out to be and we have the best lineout in the championship this year. I'd gladly trade one lineout a game for what Kelleher offers around the field. Our lineout was a ****show last year no matter what hooker we started.

Kelleher will become more reliable. Herring has no chance of becoming the rugby player Kelleher is.

Of course he will become more reliable, this is the point I am making. It’s a valid discussion to debate the merits of the set piece. I don’t know what channel you were watching on, but his second crooked throw was commented on. It was missed by officials. Just because officials missed it, it shouldn’t be overlooked.

Natterjack from Kerry · 27-02-2021 10:24pm

Faugheen wrote: »

Casey cost Lowe a try and nearly cost us a second one before Ireland mauled over.

Should never play again.

And he's feckin tiiiiiiny. Jaysus.
Is he really a prospect as an international scrumhalf ?

Dubinusa · 27-02-2021 11:51pm

Not sure what to make of this. Very up and down performance. Connors was my motm. I can see why he's getting selected, serious turnover threat and great tackle techniques..l
JGP did have an armchair ride. But, his speed around the ruck is 1st class. He kicked pretty well also.
Roman Poite is the Ray Charles of tmo. Unbelievable call on Henderson's non try.
Anyway, not much learned imo. Scotland will be a real test.

ersatz · 28-02-2021 1:23am

Must love hardship wrote: »

Jgp got an absolute arm chair ride today. My nan would have played well with the delivery he got. You can't judge a scrumhalf on that performance from the presentation of ball he got but you can judge him on his defence. Which was poor out on the wing on a number of occasions biting in and you can judge him for his decision making like his quick tap which cost us 30 metres and gave the italians position of the ball.
The ball there was the penalty down the line and take a line out not a snipe.

Kelleher's quick tap towards the end was odd too. No support running with him left him isolated and nearly turned over, and he got hurt. That chance went begging. I haven't looked back at it but it seemed off the cuff.

Yurt2 · 28-02-2021 1:56am

Craig Casey reminds me of Fumiaki Tanaka, the Japanese scrumhalf who played for the Highlanders in Super Rugby. One of my favourite scrum halves over the last decade.

eagle eye · 28-02-2021 3:27am

Kinda feel the MoM is given to a player for his performances in previous games.
Tadhg Beirne had a very good game today but I felt our two centres were outstanding. I'd have had Ringrose slightly ahead of Henshaw as our best two players on the day.

Burkie1203 · 28-02-2021 8:57am

ersatz wrote: »

Kelleher's quick tap towards the end was odd too. No support running with him left him isolated and nearly turned over, and he got hurt. That chance went begging. I haven't looked back at it but it seemed off the cuff.

It wasn't off the cuff. There was a discussion about it but I think the others thought he would tap it on the ground.

Buer · 28-02-2021 9:30am

eagle eye wrote: »

Kinda feel the MoM is given to a player for his performances in previous games.

Pretty sure that was given because of a blue scrum cap and the host commentary team were doubling up Connors' involvement with Beirne's. Beirne was fine but completely unremarkable. People barely noticed him during the game outside of one big carry on the wing.

Clegg · 28-02-2021 10:17am

Looking back on yesterday's game and I'm even more disappointed in Italy. In their opening fixtures we saw them take the ball from a running start to get over the gain line, offloads to trailing runners and generally exciting backplay.

I'm of the opinion that their overall attacking play has improved a lot over recent years, but their forward play has deteriorated. We bullied them all around the pitch yesterday and they couldn't fire a shot. That's encouraging for us in some respects that we can still get on top of opposition packs. Thought we had the beating if Wales even with a man down for 60 minutes.

Italy have some good forwards, Negri and Polledri especially are very good and would start for a lot of teams. But they haven't enough of them to threaten.

Garda Kenny · 28-02-2021 10:23am

ersatz wrote: »

Kelleher's quick tap towards the end was odd too. No support running with him left him isolated and nearly turned over, and he got hurt. That chance went begging. I haven't looked back at it but it seemed off the cuff.

Why was it odd? I think he was given the go ahead to avoid the scrum and for the line and recycle. it was the right decision to take. We had been camped on their with failed scrums for ten minutes at that stage. He had a fine game. Looking for irrelevant things to put a black mark on his ledger is juvenile and childish

Mimon · 28-02-2021 10:23am

Faugheen wrote: »

Casey cost Lowe a try and nearly cost us a second one before Ireland mauled over.

Should never play again.

WTAF? Are you actually being serious?

ersatz · 28-02-2021 10:36am

Garda Kenny wrote: »

Why was it odd? I think he was given the go ahead to avoid the scrum and for the line and recycle. it was the right decision to take. We had been camped on their with failed scrums for ten minutes at that stage. He had a fine game. Looking for irrelevant things to put a black mark on his ledger is juvenile and childish

Odd because noone else went with him and he nearly got turned over on a tap and go which would count as a mistake in anyones book. Plus he got hurt because the Italians got a clean hit on him which would have been harder had he had support. Another poster points out that the rest of the forwards expected him to tap on the ground so perhaps it was the result of poor communication but it was definitely executed poorly, even if it was the right decision. Cool your jets, officer.

Faugheen · 28-02-2021 11:32am

eagle eye wrote: »

Kinda feel the MoM is given to a player for his performances in previous games.
Tadhg Beirne had a very good game today but I felt our two centres were outstanding. I'd have had Ringrose slightly ahead of Henshaw as our best two players on the day.

I had Ringrose as MOTM by a mile today. He was outstanding.

Garda Kenny · 28-02-2021 12:02pm

ersatz wrote: »

Odd because noone else went with him and he nearly got turned over on a tap and go which would count as a mistake in anyones book. Plus he got hurt because the Italians got a clean hit on him which would have been harder had he had support. Another poster points out that the rest of the forwards expected him to tap on the ground so perhaps it was the result of poor communication but it was definitely executed poorly, even if it was the right decision. Cool your jets, officer.

How would you know he got hurt. It was a big impact but one of many he was in and dominated or at least found parity with the opposition. To say he got hurt is to personalise your attack and mock him for taking in your eyes the wrong decision. Was it such a turning moment or disobedience of his elders that you have to personalise and mock him for it? Please stop the childish personalised attacks.

leakyboots · 28-02-2021 12:42pm

Buer wrote: »

Pretty sure that was given because of a blue scrum cap and the host commentary team were doubling up Connors' involvement with Beirne's. Beirne was fine but completely unremarkable. People barely noticed him during the game outside of one big carry on the wing.

"Completely unremarkable" is doing him a big disservice (and the commentary team). Won and stole lineout ball, turnover on the ground, constantly slowed down their ball, made most yards in the pack

Beirne had a great game and was rightly in the conversation for MOTM

.ak · 28-02-2021 12:43pm

Connors was my motm. Outstanding performance.

People who stood out for me:

The Leinster Backline.
Connors
Stander
Kilcoyne
Henderson
Baird
Casey impressed all jokes aside.

People who weren’t so good...

Furlong looked rusty
Lowe could’ve done better considering but was still a constant threat
Kelleher looked good in the loose but darts were a bit wobbly

aloooof · 28-02-2021 12:51pm

Stander and Connors for me were the stand outs, closely followed by Ringrose and Sexton.

Sexton’s flat skip pass for the Earls try is a pass I just don’t think the other 10s in the squad have in their locker.

Stout Warrior · 28-02-2021 1:16pm

leakyboots wrote: »

"Completely unremarkable" is doing him a big disservice (and the commentary team). Won and stole lineout ball, turnover on the ground, constantly slowed down their ball, made most yards in the pack

Beirne had a great game and was rightly in the conversation for MOTM

Did Beirne constantly slow down their ball? Didn’t see him involved in too many breakdowns and those he was involved I didn’t see him doing anything other than shield ball.

Slowing down ball is an art form from hitting rucks late, to preventing tackled player presenting carefully, to clearing all the way through the gate.

Didn’t see much Beirne involvement at the breakdown yesterday and thought he had quite a quiet game.

Buer · 28-02-2021 2:59pm

leakyboots wrote: »

"Completely unremarkable" is doing him a big disservice (and the commentary team). Won and stole lineout ball, turnover on the ground, constantly slowed down their ball, made most yards in the pack

Beirne had a great game and was rightly in the conversation for MOTM

He was grand. He had a solid game without really catching the eye and delivered a standard performance which is exactly what I'd describe as unremarkable.

The fact that you're suggesting slowing down ball and catching his own lineout ball as examples of his performance ties in with that. That's basic play for a lock/blindside.

He disrupted a line out early on. Aside from his carry on the wing (which accounted for the vast majority of those metres), I'm not sure his name was mentioned in the second half. I don't recall him making a turnover although I could be wrong. The statistics don't credit him with one either.

If you're using the stats as your metric, he had fewer tackles than any forward on the field. Of course that's disingenuous as his role is to sit off and seek a turnover but Stander was far better in both respects yesterday.

Grand game from him. Nothing special and didn't stand out much at all for me in comparison to both his back row partners, Kilcoyne or, in the final quarter, Ryan.

Buer · 28-02-2021 3:03pm

aloooof wrote: »

Stander and Connors for me were the stand outs, closely followed by Ringrose and Sexton.

Sexton’s flat skip pass for the Earls try is a pass I just don’t think the other 10s in the squad have in their locker.

Carty has it, definitely. Burns has it but I'd be less confident.

The problem with both of them is that I'd be less confident in them slotting 8/8 or putting that touchfinder into the Italian half from inside their own 22 late on.

With all that said, it's easy to look good behind a team going forward. Every collision was being won by Ireland on the gain line. The Italian defensive line was constantly stepping back and having to adjust particularly in the first half before it turned into a complete penalty competition in the second half.

irishbucsfan · 28-02-2021 4:34pm

Will Connors had a turnover. Crafty blue scrum cap tactics

aloooof · 28-02-2021 4:44pm

Buer wrote: »

Carty has it, definitely. Burns has it but I'd be less confident.

The problem with both of them is that I'd be less confident in them slotting 8/8 or putting that touchfinder into the Italian half from inside their own 22 late on.

With all that said, it's easy to look good behind a team going forward. Every collision was being won by Ireland on the gain line. The Italian defensive line was constantly stepping back and having to adjust particularly in the first half before it turned into a complete penalty competition in the second half.

Ya, agreed with Carly, I specifically phrased it as “10 in the squad” cos of him. If we could marry Carty’s creativity with Ross Byrne’s defence and kicking off the tee, we’d be laughing.

Joey with a nice cameo of the bench on Friday tho; lovely conversion from wide and didn’t see afraid to bring it to the line and delay a pass the 1 or 2 times he got possession. Hopefully he’ll have some luck with injuries now going forward at least.

28-02-2021 5:27pm

I know it's been done to death but burns or carty and cooney and your laughing

The Inbetween is mine · 28-02-2021 7:42pm

There's absolutely no place for this kind of behaviour in the modern game

https://m.independent.ie/videos/craig-casey-sings-careless-whisper-in-ireland-dressing-room-as-initiation-after-first-cap-against-italy-40140708.html

thebaz · 28-02-2021 8:07pm

The Inbetween is mine wrote: »

There's absolutely no place for this kind of behaviour in the modern game
https://m.independent.ie/videos/craig-casey-sings-careless-whisper-in-ireland-dressing-room-as-initiation-after-first-cap-against-italy-40140708.html

The voice , aghh - he'll be sticking to his day job :eek:

Better day out by the rugby team , ther is talent throughout that team , but still no backup to Johnny.

Ardillaun · 28-02-2021 8:29pm

aloooof wrote: »

Earls, Larmour, Lowe, Stockdale, Conway. Add in younger lads like Daly, Balacoune. We’ve loads of options.

Let’s hope Baloucoune’s hamstring holds up. He’s an excellent prospect.

Dubinusa · 28-02-2021 9:32pm

Sextons pass to Earls was brilliant. Outrageous pass. He was good of the tee also. Hopefully, he carries this form into Murrayfield.

ersatz · 28-02-2021 9:46pm

Garda Kenny wrote: »

How would you know he got hurt. It was a big impact but one of many he was in and dominated or at least found parity with the opposition. To say he got hurt is to personalise your attack and mock him for taking in your eyes the wrong decision. Was it such a turning moment or disobedience of his elders that you have to personalise and mock him for it? Please stop the childish personalised attacks.

He limped off and was substituted. You’re the only one mocking anyone.

molloyjh · 28-02-2021 10:19pm

Job done. There was never much that we were really going to learn about where we are overall from yesterday's game. Italy are very poor. But we did everything we needed to. As many of us have said, this is a 2 parter really. This was always about getting some momentum ahead of the trip to Scotland. So while it was great to see us cut loose a bit, we can't judge where we're at for another 2 weeks.

phog · 01-03-2021 11:54am

I think most people would have said we were always going to win against Italy but I was happy enough with our overall performance and the result, a few simple errors here and there but an improvement from our earlier games. Sexton's pass out to Earls was probably the highlight of the game, twas a peach of a pass.

Ardillaun · 02-03-2021 2:23am

I wonder if Sarto will be considered for Italy again soon? He looked lively against Connacht.

Italy vs Ireland match thread

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