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Are Sinn Féin anti-Catholic?

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12357…11

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  • Options
    #122
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    John Hutton wrote: »
    Papal infallibility has been invoked only a handful of times.

    Popes get stuff wrong all the time.


    That's an odd perspective, the church doesn't say that only those without sin can be members, quite the opposite in fact. Why do you say that only those "free of sin" in the Church's eyes should be members when the church itself says the opposite?


    Do you apply the same rigor to your own life, that you only partake in something if you are in 100% personal agreement and conformity? Do you vote for example?


    Personally I don't agree with everything anyone or anything I am involved with says or stands for - I have the humility to acknowledge though that that doesn't mean I am right on these issues either!

    However we are talking about organisations here. What they stand for and what they actually stand for. We can have our own opinions and make peace if we like, but we know the church actively covered up abuse of women and children on an industrial scale for generations.
    All organisations have bad apples as it were it's up to us if the bad apples out weigh the worth of having the institution. This goes for all political parties. The church as an organisation is culpable and would, (might still) be still at it today if not caught out.
    As for the SF younger crowd being this or that. I've read here how SF supporters are racist and don't like asylum seekers from posters who in the same breath will criticise SF policy being too lenient towards asylum seekers and how SF supporters won't like it. Same with this anti-catholic shyte. It's dross.
    I've yet to see a shinner thread can go five minutes without some ghouls talking about stuff from decades ago. It's boring but show's the lengths folk will go to when they back the like of FF/FG.
    There will always be arseholes. Bruton's talk on John Hume was all about how Hume 'redefined Nationalism' and got the IRA to cease violence. By reading it you'd think it was the IRA and nobody else involved. That's people rightly admiring the man for helping to bring about peace while taking a **** on that peace to score political points. As I say you'll always have arseholes.


  • Options
    #123
    John Hutton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭John Hutton


    Bowie wrote: »
    However we are talking about organisations here. What they stand for and what they actually stand for. We can have our own opinions and make peace if we like, but we know the church actively covered up abuse of women and children on an industrial scale for generations.
    All organisations have bad apples as it were it's up to us if the bad apples out weigh the worth of having the institution. This goes for all political parties. The church as an organisation is culpable and would, (might still) be still at it today if not caught out.
    As for the SF younger crowd being this or that. I've read here how SF supporters are racist and don't like asylum seekers from posters who in the same breath will criticise SF policy being too lenient towards asylum seekers and how SF supporters won't like it. Same with this anti-catholic shyte. It's dross.
    I've yet to see a shinner thread can go five minutes without some ghouls talking about stuff from decades ago. It's boring but show's the lengths folk will go to when they back the like of FF/FG.
    There will always be arseholes. Bruton's talk on John Hume was all about how Hume 'redefined Nationalism' and got the IRA to cease violence. By reading it you'd think it was the IRA and nobody else involved. That's people rightly admiring the man for helping to bring about peace while taking a **** on that peace to score political points. As I say you'll always have arseholes.
    So if it is ghoulish (and illegitimate - I agree it is mostly dishonest) to keep bringing up things the IRA did decades ago in threads about SF, how many years need to pass before you apply the same standard to those bringing up clerical child abuse by Irish clergy in discussions about the church?



    Or do you have a double standard?


  • Options
    #124
    Truthvader
    Registered Users Posts: 1,826 ✭✭✭Truthvader


    Bowie wrote: »
    However we are talking about organisations here. What they stand for and what they actually stand for. We can have our own opinions and make peace if we like, but we know the church actively covered up abuse of women and children on an industrial scale for generations.
    All organisations have bad apples as it were it's up to us if the bad apples out weigh the worth of having the institution. This goes for all political parties. The church as an organisation is culpable and would, (might still) be still at it today if not caught out.
    As for the SF younger crowd being this or that. I've read here how SF supporters are racist and don't like asylum seekers from posters who in the same breath will criticise SF policy being too lenient towards asylum seekers and how SF supporters won't like it. Same with this anti-catholic shyte. It's dross.
    I've yet to see a shinner thread can go five minutes without some ghouls talking about stuff from decades ago. It's boring but show's the lengths folk will go to when they back the like of FF/FG.
    There will always be arseholes. Bruton's talk on John Hume was all about how Hume 'redefined Nationalism' and got the IRA to cease violence. By reading it you'd think it was the IRA and nobody else involved. That's people rightly admiring the man for helping to bring about peace while taking a **** on that peace to score political points. As I say you'll always have arseholes.


    Another history re-write effort.

    The IRA and its counterparts on the Loyalist side uniquely deliberately set out to murder and maim innocent people as a deliberate premediated policy day after day to get what they wanted. Others such as the British Army had disgraceful lapses into murder such as Bloody Sunday etc but the Provos and their counterparts in the Loyalist Gnags uniquely set out each day with the intention to murder.

    So yes it was pretty much the IRA. No points to be scored save that history be accurately recorded


  • Options
    #125
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 24,362 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    John Hutton wrote: »
    Papal infallibility has been invoked only a handful of times.




    Popes get stuff wrong all the time.





    That's an odd perspective, the church doesn't say that only those without sin can be members, quite the opposite in fact. Why do you say that only those "free of sin" in the Church's eyes should be members when the church itself says the opposite?


    Do you apply the same rigor to your own life, that you only partake in something if you are in 100% personal agreement and conformity? Do you vote for example?


    Personally I don't agree with everything anyone or anything I am involved with says or stands for - I have the humility to acknowledge though that that doesn't mean I am right on these issues either!

    I do vote in every election be it national,local,EU or referendum and I apply enough rigor to my own life to not say I am something when clearly I am not and most people in this country who say they are catholics on the census because they were baptized don't believe in the church. The RC church discriminates against gays & women and anyone who doesn't like to discriminate against gays and women should stop following the RC church because it's against the rules of the church to like gays and catholics


  • Options
    #126
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,972 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    Bowie wrote: »
    However we are talking about organisations here. What they stand for and what they actually stand for. We can have our own opinions and make peace if we like, but we know the church actively covered up abuse of women and children on an industrial scale for generations.
    All organisations have bad apples as it were it's up to us if the bad apples out weigh the worth of having the institution. This goes for all political parties. The church as an organisation is culpable and would, (might still) be still at it today if not caught out.
    As for the SF younger crowd being this or that. I've read here how SF supporters are racist and don't like asylum seekers from posters who in the same breath will criticise SF policy being too lenient towards asylum seekers and how SF supporters won't like it. Same with this anti-catholic shyte. It's dross.
    I've yet to see a shinner thread can go five minutes without some ghouls talking about stuff from decades ago. It's boring but show's the lengths folk will go to when they back the like of FF/FG.
    There will always be arseholes. Bruton's talk on John Hume was all about how Hume 'redefined Nationalism' and got the IRA to cease violence. By reading it you'd think it was the IRA and nobody else involved. That's people rightly admiring the man for helping to bring about peace while taking a **** on that peace to score political points. As I say you'll always have arseholes.




    The armed struggle didn't occur in a vaccum. Had the nationalist people in NI been treated as their loyalist neighbours it may never have happened.


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    #127
    RandomViewer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    Truthvader wrote: »
    Another history re-write effort.

    The IRA and its counterparts on the Loyalist side uniquely deliberately set out to murder and maim innocent people as a deliberate premediated policy day after day to get what they wanted. Others such as the British Army had disgraceful lapses into murder such as Bloody Sunday etc but the Provos and their counterparts in the Loyalist Gnags uniquely set out each day with the intention to murder.

    So yes it was pretty much the IRA. No points to be scored save that history be accurately recorded

    British army ,the RUC and the Gardai colluded with loyalists, Gardai escorted loyalists back to the safety of the border after shootings and bombings in the republic.


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    #128
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 24,362 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    RandomViewer wrote: »
    British army ,the RUC and the Gardai colluded with loyalists, Gardai escorted loyalists back to the safety of the border after shootings and bombings in the republic.

    Is that true about the gardai? What's the story behind it ide love to read more into it


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    #129
    John Hutton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭John Hutton


    breezy1985 wrote: »
    I do vote in every election be it national,local,EU or referendum and I apply enough rigor to my own life to not say I am something when clearly I am not and most people in this country who say they are catholics on the census because they were baptized don't believe in the church. The RC church discriminates against gays & women and anyone who doesn't like to discriminate against gays and women should stop following the RC church because it's against the rules of the church to like gays and catholics
    I don't think you understand what the church actually says about gay people.



    Are all the gay people and women who are Catholics some sort of self loathing masochists or something?


  • Options
    #130
    Truthvader
    Registered Users Posts: 1,826 ✭✭✭Truthvader


    RandomViewer wrote: »
    British army ,the RUC and the Gardai colluded with loyalists, Gardai escorted loyalists back to the safety of the border after shootings and bombings in the republic.

    Certainly ample evidence of Army and RUC complicity in some seedy murders. Again it was not the policy of either to go out and randomly murder (though there were rogue elements in both well up for it). The deliberate policy of the IRA was random murder - as celebrated by some posters here who even praise Warrington as an essential step in "bringing the British to the negotiating table" (as if they had never been there before and Sunningdale did not exist).

    The allegation against the Guards is a new departure in the Sinn Fein double think Trumpy alternative facts LSD trip which can be filed away in the Fairy Tale cabinet along with the "RUC robbed the Northern Bank" story


  • Options
    #131
    Dyr
    Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Bowie wrote: »
    However we are talking about organisations here. What they stand for and what they actually stand for. We can have our own opinions and make peace if we like, but we know the church actively covered up abuse of women and children on an industrial scale for generations.

    Big Bowie fan all the same though?


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    #132
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    John Hutton wrote: »
    So if it is ghoulish (and illegitimate - I agree it is mostly dishonest) to keep bringing up things the IRA did decades ago in threads about SF, how many years need to pass before you apply the same standard to those bringing up clerical child abuse by Irish clergy in discussions about the church?



    Or do you have a double standard?

    While I don't go to Mass, I do give SF a vote, (when someone besides O'Snodaigh is running). I also don't give people a hard time for going to Mass. It's up to the individual. The difference here is if we are talking on track record anything is fair game for either organisation. If we're talking about Gay marriage or politics in this century, I'd say not. Stuff comes up but we regularly have instances were ministerial pay hikes from the other week are compared to the N.I. bank robbery. While the desperation is amusing, it's poor debate.
    To be frank, I believe the IRA signed up to peace. I believe SF are not planting bombs or killing. Also bombings and killings was what the IRA did, (as did others). Then they stopped after signing up to a peace. So I'm more interested in SF's housing policy over what they may or may not have known about something the IRA did during the conflict/troubles.
    I don't recall the church giving any Altar boy a 10 minute warning. And they had to be dragged into taking responsibility. The church never declared an open conflict on single mothers, children and the gay community but they sure as hell waged one.


  • Options
    #133
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    Truthvader wrote: »
    Another history re-write effort.

    The IRA and its counterparts on the Loyalist side uniquely deliberately set out to murder and maim innocent people as a deliberate premediated policy day after day to get what they wanted. Others such as the British Army had disgraceful lapses into murder such as Bloody Sunday etc but the Provos and their counterparts in the Loyalist Gnags uniquely set out each day with the intention to murder.

    So yes it was pretty much the IRA. No points to be scored save that history be accurately recorded

    You either don't read these comments or don't understand them. I can't help you there horse.


  • Options
    #134
    Bonniedog
    Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭Bonniedog


    Shinners attacking others over child abuse and rape .....

    Where would you even start?

    Warfield is an asshole. I'd love to know what the uncles (?) who made a career out of sinigng Provie ballads think of him?


  • Options
    #135
    RandomViewer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    breezy1985 wrote: »
    Is that true about the gardai? What's the story behind it ide love to read more into it

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/fullerton-family-seek-inquiry-into-1991-murder-1.784283

    https://extra.ie/2018/09/11/news/drew-harris-dublin-monaghan-bombings


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    #136
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    You can despise the organisation of the Catholic Church and its doctrine without despising its lay followers, many of whom are either unaware of or simply ignore and do not follow the radically misanthropic teachings of the church itself. Many Catholics choose to live by the word of Jesus and ignore the bullsh!t coming from the men on the pulpits, which is rather fitting considering that Jesus himself railed against the hypocritical and misanthropic religious leaders of his day time and time again, ultimately leading to his death at their hands after he poked the bear once too often and made them uncomfortable by speaking far too much sense to their previously subjugated followers.

    I'm a former Catholic, many people close to me are Catholics and they are good, decent people who are kind to their fellow humans. The Church itself abandoned being kind to others many decades and centuries ago in favour of crusades against countries and people alike who didn't follow their teachings and sexual puritanism which ruined hundreds of thousands of lives over many generations.

    It's fair to say that at this point, the word "Catholics" and the phrase "The Catholic Church" mean two entirely different things. Never before has the Church been as disconnected from its founding documents and those who live by those founding documents.


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    #137
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    John Hutton wrote: »
    So if it is ghoulish (and illegitimate - I agree it is mostly dishonest) to keep bringing up things the IRA did decades ago in threads about SF, how many years need to pass before you apply the same standard to those bringing up clerical child abuse by Irish clergy in discussions about the church?



    Or do you have a double standard?

    Sinn Fein has renounced violence. The Catholic Church has not renounced misanthropic and evil teachings which are designed to make people ashamed of their species and their own God-given desires. Big difference.


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    #138
    Truthvader
    Registered Users Posts: 1,826 ✭✭✭Truthvader


    RandomViewer wrote: »
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/fullerton-family-seek-inquiry-into-1991-murder-1.784283

    https://extra.ie/2018/09/11/news/drew-harris-dublin-monaghan-bombings

    So as expected; not a shred of evidence that the Guards escorted Loaylists killers anywhere. Just the usual Sinn Fein anti Garda drivel. Only criminals are automatically hostile to the Guards so no surprise. Nice to be reminded though that behind the facade they haven't gone away you know


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    #139
    JohnnyFlash
    Registered Users Posts: 7,055 ✭✭✭JohnnyFlash


    Truthvader wrote: »
    So as expected; not a shred of evidence that the Guards escorted Loaylists killers anywhere. Just the usual Sinn Fein anti Garda drivel. Only criminals are automatically hostile to the Guards so no surprise. Nice to be reminded though that behind the facade they haven't gone away you know

    They were hopping mad when Harris was appointed commissioner. He’s one of ‘dem uns’.


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    #140
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,972 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    Truthvader wrote: »
    So as expected; not a shred of evidence that the Guards escorted Loaylists killers anywhere. Just the usual Sinn Fein anti Garda drivel. Only criminals are automatically hostile to the Guards so no surprise. Nice to be reminded though that behind the facade they haven't gone away you know




    No, they haven't gone away. Gone from strength to strength in fact.


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    #141
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    Bonniedog wrote: »
    Shinners attacking others over child abuse and rape .....

    Where would you even start?

    Warfield is an asshole. I'd love to know what the uncles (?) who made a career out of sinigng Provie ballads think of him?

    Maybe by reading the comments ;)


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    #142
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 24,362 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    John Hutton wrote: »
    I don't think you understand what the church actually says about gay people.



    Are all the gay people and women who are Catholics some sort of self loathing masochists or something?

    The church funded Iona institute was against gay marriage for one and it is a sin under church doctrine. I dont know the inner mental workings of gay catholics so Im not able to comment

    And I like how you dodged the bit about women in my post are you going to tell us that the church was great for the women of Ireland


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    #143
    Truthvader
    Registered Users Posts: 1,826 ✭✭✭Truthvader


    Odhinn wrote: »
    No, they haven't gone away. Gone from strength to strength in fact.

    Careful now. Your pals have spent months posting that they have in fact gone away. They wont be pleased with eejits letting the cat out of the bag. Maybe ring Slab or whoever runs the show and get updated instructions so poor Mary Lou isn't embarrassed again


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    #144
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 24,362 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Truthvader wrote: »
    So as expected; not a shred of evidence that the Guards escorted Loaylists killers anywhere. Just the usual Sinn Fein anti Garda drivel. Only criminals are automatically hostile to the Guards so no surprise. Nice to be reminded though that behind the facade they haven't gone away you know

    Not a shred of evidence about god existing either but this country had to put up with his crap for years


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    #145
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,972 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    Truthvader wrote: »
    Careful now. Your pals have spent months posting that they have in fact gone away..............


    As they're now the main opposition party, its fairly clear they haven't. The armed struggle is ended however.


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    #146
    John Hutton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭John Hutton


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    Sinn Fein has renounced violence. The Catholic Church has not renounced misanthropic and evil teachings which are designed to make people ashamed of their species and their own God-given desires. Big difference.
    What SF have done is say that they no longer believe that violence is the correct way forwards in current circumstances.



    They have not said that their previous violence was wrong.



    The main criticism towards the church in this thread is the child sex abuse scandal and institutional abuse. The church has taken concrete steps to prevent something like this from occurring again, the child protection policies are now excellent. (of course they should always have been and shouldn't take horrendous abuse to finally get it right).




    Now if you have a fundamental objection to Catholicism that isn't based on some form of belief that Catholicism automatically begets pedophilia then that is altogether different than a lot of this thread and is a far more interesting discussion to have.



    I have found however that most people don't actually understand what the Catholic Church actually teaches on most subjects. I include most catholics in that too, a hallmark of post Vatican II is poor or non existent catechesis, this is especially the case in Ireland. It reminds me of Irish, how people can "study" it for years in school and be unable to have a simple conversation in it.



    The Catholic Church does not teach people to be ashamed of the human species, quite the opposite in fact, that we are made in the image and likeness of God. Furthermore it also teaches that our proclivity to sin is not a personal defect or failing and that basically everyone does it, but that it can be overcome (I'm being very succinct here) and in fact humanity has been redeemed. It is in no way correct to say that the Church teaches hatred of humanity or human nature.



    At it's core Christianity, especially Catholicism, is a very optimistic religion - or as I have seen it put, "hope is a fact with religion".


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    #147
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    John Hutton wrote: »
    What SF have done is say that they no longer believe that violence is the correct way forwards in current circumstances.



    They have not said that their previous violence was wrong.


    More the IRA and I'd be surprised if they did. You know what the 'A' in IRA stands for right?
    The church on the other hand preaches love for your fellow man, looking after the poor and that. You may as well ask the church to apologise for having mass.
    John Hutton wrote: »
    The main criticism towards the church in this thread is the child sex abuse scandal and institutional abuse. The church has taken concrete steps to prevent something like this from occurring again, the child protection policies are now excellent. (of course they should always have been and shouldn't take horrendous abuse to finally get it right).


    Now if you have a fundamental objection to Catholicism that isn't based on some form of belief that Catholicism automatically begets pedophilia then that is altogether different than a lot of this thread and is a far more interesting discussion to have.

    We're not talking the odd chap and people covering, we are talking many over generations and the institution covering, denying it.

    John Hutton wrote: »
    I have found however that most people don't actually understand what the Catholic Church actually teaches on most subjects. I include most catholics in that too, a hallmark of post Vatican II is poor or non existent catechesis, this is especially the case in Ireland. It reminds me of Irish, how people can "study" it for years in school and be unable to have a simple conversation in it.



    The Catholic Church does not teach people to be ashamed of the human species, quite the opposite in fact, that we are made in the image and likeness of God. Furthermore it also teaches that our proclivity to sin is not a personal defect or failing and that basically everyone does it, but that it can be overcome (I'm being very succinct here) and in fact humanity has been redeemed. It is in no way correct to say that the Church teaches hatred of humanity or human nature.

    Single mothers, gay folk and they like were celebrated and welcomed with open arms, maybe by Jesus, but not by the church. They ruined and ended numerous lives on an industrial scale.
    John Hutton wrote: »
    At it's core Christianity, especially Catholicism, is a very optimistic religion - or as I have seen it put, "hope is a fact with religion".

    For me it's a case of decent beliefs and guides misused by people within the church.

    At the end of the day the youth seem to turn away from religion so it stands to reason some would be in SF/support SF. However it's not a party policy to destroy the church AFAIK.


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    #148
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 24,362 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    John Hutton wrote: »
    What SF have done is say that they no longer believe that violence is the correct way forwards in current circumstances.



    They have not said that their previous violence was wrong.



    The main criticism towards the church in this thread is the child sex abuse scandal and institutional abuse. The church has taken concrete steps to prevent something like this from occurring again, the child protection policies are now excellent. (of course they should always have been and shouldn't take horrendous abuse to finally get it right).




    Now if you have a fundamental objection to Catholicism that isn't based on some form of belief that Catholicism automatically begets pedophilia then that is altogether different than a lot of this thread and is a far more interesting discussion to have.



    I have found however that most people don't actually understand what the Catholic Church actually teaches on most subjects. I include most catholics in that too, a hallmark of post Vatican II is poor or non existent catechesis, this is especially the case in Ireland. It reminds me of Irish, how people can "study" it for years in school and be unable to have a simple conversation in it.



    The Catholic Church does not teach people to be ashamed of the human species, quite the opposite in fact, that we are made in the image and likeness of God. Furthermore it also teaches that our proclivity to sin is not a personal defect or failing and that basically everyone does it, but that it can be overcome (I'm being very succinct here) and in fact humanity has been redeemed. It is in no way correct to say that the Church teaches hatred of humanity or human nature.



    At it's core Christianity, especially Catholicism, is a very optimistic religion - or as I have seen it put, "hope is a fact with religion".

    The catholic church is based completely around shame. Be shamed if you are gay be shamed if you masturbate be shamed if your into anal sex or any form of non missionary kink.

    The church campaigned against gay marriage, sex shops incuding seexual aids condoms lingerie and sex toys.

    And most of all be very ashamed of being a woman. Breastfeeding SHAME menstruating SHAME sexual desire SHAME masturbation DOUBLE SHAME for women. Look at the controversy over Edna O 'Brien for daring to show that women might have minds and desires outside the kitchen or Kate O'Brien before her

    The church has changed because it had to and not because of its conscience. We took its power away so now they change but if we gave it back tomorrow they would be whipping and raping young girls in laundries by Sunday


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    #149
    John Hutton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭John Hutton


    Bowie wrote: »
    More the IRA and I'd be surprised if they did. You know what the 'A' in IRA stands for right?


    I've never said that I disagreed with SF or the IRA on the national question.




    The church on the other hand preaches love for your fellow man, looking after the poor and that. You may as well ask the church to apologise for having mass.
    This a bit of a difference between bombing and shooting people and Mass to be fair. I think your comment here is unfair and omits the context I made it in - a comparison was basically made between the misdeeds of the church and of the IRA and that SF was ok now because they "renounced violence" .

    We're not talking the odd chap and people covering, we are talking many over generations and the institution covering, denying it.
    How long of a period? The Catholic church has existed for nearly 2000 years. There is nothing to suggest that Catholicism or Christianity automatically begets pedophilia, rather we see ample evidence in many contexts that unaccountable power leads to abuse.

    Single mothers, gay folk and they like were celebrated and welcomed with open arms, maybe by Jesus, but not by the church. They ruined and ended numerous lives on an industrial scale.
    You have made similar points on many occasions in this thread and I haven't asked you to be specific but I think it's fair to do so now. Ended numerous lives on an industrial scale? What do you mean by that?


    When you look at the Church it also did, and does, a great deal of good.

    For me it's a case of decent beliefs and guides misused by people within the church.
    I think that's a fair comment and I wouldn't disagree. People have always abused power for their own ends, unfortunately clergy are not immune to this.

    At the end of the day the youth seem to turn away from religion so it stands to reason some would be in SF/support SF. However it's not a party policy to destroy the church AFAIK.
    It is still early days yet and the Church in Ireland has gone through greater crisis over the years. We will see what happens. Smaller yes, but I don't see it going anywhere.



    Is SF anti-catholic? Elements of it yes. Many of the comments made by supporters and representatives during the abortion campaign particular would not have been out of place in an Orange Lodge in the 1960s, particularly the vitriol about rosaries ("bead rattlers") which is an old sectarian trope.



    Is it actively out to "destroy" Catholicism? No I don't think so, but that doesn't mean it isn't against it!


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    #150
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,972 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    John Hutton wrote: »
    What SF have done is say that they no longer believe that violence is the correct way forwards in current circumstances.

    They have not said that their previous violence was wrong.



    ............


    Why would they, as they believe -overall - it was justified.


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    #151
    John Hutton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭John Hutton


    breezy1985 wrote: »
    The catholic church is based completely around shame. Be shamed if you are gay be shamed if you masturbate be shamed if your into anal sex or any form of non missionary kink.

    The church campaigned against gay marriage, sex shops incuding seexual aids condoms lingerie and sex toys.

    And most of all be very ashamed of being a woman. Breastfeeding SHAME menstruating SHAME sexual desire SHAME masturbation DOUBLE SHAME for women. Look at the controversy over Edna O 'Brien for daring to show that women might have minds and desires outside the kitchen or Kate O'Brien before her

    The church has changed because it had to and not because of its conscience. We took its power away so now they change but if we gave it back tomorrow they would be whipping and raping young girls in laundries by Sunday
    So if you give a catholic power or influence they will automatically use it to rape people? This is what you are saying.



    I have a question for you, do you think that the Catholic church in Ireland always shamed people for the things you say it did?


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