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Unpaid Debts

2»

Comments

  • #52
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,909 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Brendan Bendar wrote: »
    30 large owed in rent!!!!! Thirty million!!!

    C’mon....

    Nobody,but, nobody would advocate everyone being treated as a gamer.


    This seems to be the riposte to anyone who queries this situation.

    Properly training people how to do their jobs is to be commended but then ensuring they actually DO their jobs is the issue.

    Lookit, councils have a reputation of putting things on the ‘long finger’ the nod and wink strategy, do nothing , obfuscate, and it will all die in a swamp.

    Why does one think waste collection has been privatised

    We need to wake up in this country.

    neoliberial ideology of course, and the mantra, 'the market knows best'!


  • #53
    Brendan Bendar
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,738 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    neoliberial ideology of course, and the mantra, 'the market knows best'!

    Buddy, you have been trying to derail this thread all day.

    No harm in that but your contributions have been less than salient to the issue.

    All I advocate is that those who game the system are weeded out but that those who genuinely are trying are supported.

    Do you have the same outlook?

    Do you think that a 30 million arrears in rent to DCC should be ignored?

    Do you think that action should be taken to protect those in genuine need and put forward a genuine plan to recoup arrears?

    Do you think that folk who refuse to pay arrears should be tolerated?


  • #54
    Nevin Parsnipp
    Registered Users Posts: 832 ✭✭✭Nevin Parsnipp


    That's 30 million for Dublin alone....take the country as a whole and you would probably treble that figure.

    Surely this a major problem and grossly unfair on young couples who pay their taxes, mortagages and childcare.

    Local authorities have responsibility for collecting this rent for houses supplied by the taxpayer if the current methods are clearly not working the there is a need to try something different.

    Like deducting from wages / benefits. .?


  • #55
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,909 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Brendan Bendar wrote: »
    Buddy, you have been trying to derail this thread all day.

    No harm in that but your contributions have been less than salient to the issue.

    All I advocate is that those who game the system are weeded out but that those who genuinely are trying are supported.

    Do you have the same outlook?

    Do you think that a 30 million arrears in rent to DCC should be ignored?

    Do you think that action should be taken to protect those in genuine need and put forward a genuine plan to recoup arrears?

    Do you think that folk who refuse to pay arrears should be tolerated?

    no i havent, theres clearly something deeply wrong with our credit creation systems, theres simply too much debt, and this is a global issue

    the biggest gamers are those linked to the same financial institutions that have lead us down this path. what do we do when we 'weed' these people out, how do you even do that?

    of course it shouldnt be ignored, but is it really that big of a problem, theres far more serious problems causing house price inflation


  • #56
    Brendan Bendar
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,738 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    no i havent, theres clearly something deeply wrong with our credit creation systems, theres simply too much debt, and this is a global issue

    the biggest gamers are those linked to the same financial institutions that have lead us down this path. what do we do when we 'weed' these people out, how do you even do that?

    of course it shouldnt be ignored, but is it really that big of a problem, theres far more serious problems causing house price inflation

    Buddy, the issue under discussion here is the debt to DCC of tenants,the debt for fines, toll charges, services,mortgages...etc in Ireland and how to address it

    If you want to output global issues I respectfully suggest you start a thread on that.


  • #57
    Nevin Parsnipp
    Registered Users Posts: 832 ✭✭✭Nevin Parsnipp


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    no i havent, theres clearly something deeply wrong with our credit creation systems, theres simply too much debt, and this is a global issue

    the biggest gamers are those linked to the same financial institutions that have lead us down this path. what do we do when we 'weed' these people out, how do you even do that?

    of course it shouldnt be ignored, but is it really that big of a problem, theres far more serious problems causing house price inflation

    Look my friend the OP asked you a number of specific questions you half answered one of them.

    Is it really that big of a problem ? I think it is ......as it is grossly unfair on young kids who DO try and meet their many committments and contribute their taxes.

    Your comment reminds me of one I saw in relation to kids snowballing busses who were nabbed by Gardai..."dont know why they are going after the kids when people are shooting each other all over the city"

    So you seem to be saying that as long as there are big gamers out there the smaller gamers should have free rein?

    That is what your post implies....


  • #58
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    cruizer101 wrote: »
    Dublin city council, line was taken direct from the article.



    No, but it seems mad to me, no doubt they would be crucified by the left politician but I genuinely think they would have the support of most people

    I forgot Dublin has several local authorities, my mistake


  • #59
    Better Than Christ
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,135 ✭✭✭Better Than Christ


    Raconteuse wrote: »
    But I'm not talking about whether it works or not. I'm referring to "don't bother paying" for a service provided, and for which an agreement was made to pay it.

    Some people think they are better than others and are above paying what they owe (and I am talking about all members of society with that attitude before someone mentions senior bank scum just assuming I'm not referring to them).

    But if it didn't work, the "don't bother paying" attitude wouldn't be so prevalent.

    The television licence is a great example. Even An Post - a company that knows where everyone lives - can't collect it effectively. There are literally no consequences if you aren't arsed buying one.


  • #60
    ED E
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,169 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Why this isn't deducted at source from their social welfare payments is a complete mystery to me.

    Dole is protected. If you're working they can take it, if your on a benefit they max out at a euro a week so will never pay anything off. The one group that really need attachment orders are immune.


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  • #61
    Hector Savage
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,809 ✭✭✭Hector Savage


    I thought everyone in Ireland is rich again ?
    All I see is 192 or "old" 191/182 luxury SUVs on the road.

    3/4 of them parked in front of every house in Raheny it seems.... plus the extensions and building work going on ...


  • #62
    Lux23
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,134 ✭✭✭Lux23


    This really annoys me as well. I was out of work for 18 months about five years ago, and I couldn't make payments on a loan so I fell behind. But when I got a new job I paid back every penny, in fact, they probably made more money off me than they would have if I kept up with the payments. But the banks are still making me jump through hoops to get a mortgage way less than the 3.5x my salary.


  • #63
    Andreas77
    Closed Accounts Posts: 183 ✭✭Andreas77


    Well she is only nine, but you should tell her all the things she could buy if she had kept the money, glossy magazines, hairbrush, toys, trip to the cinema, when she realises what she is missing, she will become envious of the other child and take the money back, one way or another


  • #64
    For Forks Sake
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,654 ✭✭✭✭For Forks Sake


    enricoh wrote: »
    Jesus, there'd be uproar if whatever system they use was brought in!
    Paddy would prefer to do an amnesty on all non payers n start again with a clean slate. It'd make the figures look better... For a while!

    We're talking about councils who have cut their own revenue streams (LPT) in a populist gesture (and then have the cheek to complain about lack of funding for services in the area :rolleyes: ) , they're not going to p1ss off their own voter base by demanding that they actually pay their own way...


  • #65
    cruizer101
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,205 ✭✭✭cruizer101


    Andreas77 wrote: »
    Well she is only nine, but you should tell her all the things she could buy if she had kept the money, glossy magazines, hairbrush, toys, trip to the cinema, when she realises what she is missing, she will become envious of the other child and take the money back, one way or another

    I think you have got this thread mixed up with this one where one kid loaned another money.


  • #66
    blueshade
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 428 ✭✭blueshade


    Well, certain people like the Flood woman and her husband who didn't pay their mortgage for years were able to walk away with their legal fees paid and retain their home. Then we have the two gob****es Frank from the Late Late Show and his former RTE parasite wife turned Barrister who didn't pay their mortgage or the fees for the private schools their kids attend or a whole host of other debts and still keep their home and walk away almost scot free. Funnily enough Franks former wife Twink, was also able to get away with not paying her mortgage either and she got to keep her home too.


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  • #67
    Brendan Bendar
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,738 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar


    blueshade wrote: »
    Well, certain people like the Flood woman and her husband who didn't pay their mortgage for years were able to walk away with their legal fees paid and retain their home. Then we have the two gob****es Frank from the Late Late Show and his former RTE parasite wife turned Barrister who didn't pay their mortgage or the fees for the private schools their kids attend or a whole host of other debts and still keep their home and walk away almost scot free. Funnily enough Franks former wife Twink, was also able to get away with not paying her mortgage either and she got to keep her home too.

    Don’t think Frank had anything to do with Twink, blue.

    Frank was a piano man Twinks lad was on the oboe, if memory serves me well.

    Also not quite sure if everything is wrapped up in both cases yet.

    Strange stuff indeed but maybe best not to venture there if we haven’t got the full story yet, I would suggest.


  • #68
    CalamariFritti
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,656 ✭✭✭CalamariFritti


    The problem is that councils aren’t really in a position to turf people out.
    For starters you’d be hard pressed to find a judge who puts children onto the street. Most of the time there are children involved.
    Secondly you’d just turf them out to pay for a hotel for them instead. We don’t really do ‘turf them out to live under a bridge’ here in Ireland.

    From what I gather there are some people who genuinely realise this and they take the piss and game the system.

    But the vast majority aren’t. There are tough life situations and then there are people who are simply not very smart and competent with money and life and everything. To put it mildly.
    We as a society don’t leave people like that behind and I’m ok with that and most other people are probably too.

    Council could try to grab one particularly hard nosed piss taker and drag them to court to make an example of and that would probably scare a lot of the other piss takers and improve payment morale. But councils are reluctant to do so. It would create a lot of media attention and a lot of people would rally behind some piss taker they probably wouldn’t rally behind if they knew the circumstances. But there always is the political angle, too. That’s the reality of it.


  • #69
    Brendan Bendar
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,738 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar


    CalamariFritti wrote: »
    The problem is that councils aren’t really in a position to turf people out.
    For starters you’d be hard pressed to find a judge who puts children onto the street. Most of the time there are children involved.
    Secondly you’d just turf them out to pay for a hotel for them instead. We don’t really do ‘turf them out to live under a bridge’ here in Ireland.

    From what I gather there are some people who genuinely realise this and they take the piss and game the system.

    But the vast majority aren’t. There are tough life situations and then there are people who are simply not very smart and competent with money and life and everything. To put it mildly.
    We as a society don’t leave people like that behind and I’m ok with that and most other people are probably too.

    Council could try to grab one particularly hard nosed piss taker and drag them to court to make an example of and that would probably scare a lot of the other piss takers and improve payment morale. But councils are reluctant to do so. It would create a lot of media attention and a lot of people would rally behind some piss taker they probably wouldn’t rally behind if they knew the circumstances. But there always is the political angle, too. That’s the reality of it.

    Good post.... and what you say quite rightly is one of the reasons why I started the thread.

    ‘Why can’t people see when they are being gamed,and why do they ‘rally’ behind some stult who is robbing them through taxes and as is happening now, through rent increases.

    Why would media attention influence council action if it were clearly outlined and explained?

    Can people not understand that .


  • #70
    piplip87
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,148 ✭✭✭piplip87


    I worked as a debt collector in call centre during the recession. The level of debt some people have is unreal but in 99% of the cases if you if ignore it will go away.

    Littlewoods, Oxendales, Vodafone and 3 where the most common and once the cycle is gone through after 3 months of ignoring it just goes away.


    We also worked on aged debt. MBNA credit cards some of them owed thousands for 10 years and there is nothjng they can do.

    They can try the legal route but a judgement on unsecured debt is worthless


  • #71
    Raconteuse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,817 ✭✭✭Raconteuse


    piplip87 wrote: »
    I worked as a debt collector in call centre during the recession. The level of debt some people have is unreal but in 99% of the cases if you if ignore it will go away.

    Littlewoods, Oxendales, Vodafone and 3 where the most common and once the cycle is gone through after 3 months of ignoring it just goes away.


    We also worked on aged debt. MBNA credit cards some of them owed thousands for 10 years and there is nothjng they can do.

    They can try the legal route but a judgement on unsecured debt is worthless
    It's just sickening that people let it get to this. It's theft.

    Bet some of the same people would be up in arms over their self employed friend having to chase up what they're owed.


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  • #72
    CalamariFritti
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,656 ✭✭✭CalamariFritti


    Brendan Bendar wrote: »
    Good post.... and what you say quite rightly is one of the reasons why I started the thread.

    ‘Why can’t people see when they are being gamed,and why do they ‘rally’ behind some stult who is robbing them through taxes and as is happening now, through rent increases.

    Why would media attention influence council action if it were clearly outlined and explained?

    Can people not understand that .

    More draconic measures will inevitably hit genuine cases too. I'd say we just put up with the fact that there always will be some bad apples who unjustly gain advantage. And in the grand scheme of things...it costs us a fraction of what the white collar robbers cost us in the bank crash. For the sake of social peace and all that its probably better to let it go. Its not like its actually an enviable way of life to weasel yourself through the social system.


  • #73
    andekwarhola
    Registered Users Posts: 4,639 ✭✭✭andekwarhola


    Hard to know the real story with council arrears.

    Don't get me wrong, I was brought up in a council house. My parents ended up buying it but would have been completely aghast at the thought of having rent arrears.

    I know the council rents are means tested and I agree that a significant minority of people will always take the piss but there's so much ridiculously overt and insidious cost involved in living in Dublin these days, I can only imagine how people on low incomes could badly struggle.

    That's not to excuse wilful debtors in any way of course.


  • #74
    cryptocurrency
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,647 ✭✭✭cryptocurrency


    Brendan Bendar wrote: »
    It would appear that the level of unpaid debt is spiraling out of control in Ireland.

    DCC, TOLLS, MOTORING FINES, GENERAL COURT FINES,TV LICENCES, MORTGAGES..etc.

    Why is this allowed?

    Who eventually pays for the shortfall- compliant folk who seem to be shouldering the burden for the non-payers?

    Strange there is no outcry from those who seem to be at every protest,picket line, demonstration, march and meeting going?

    Have they no interest in this disgraceful situation.


    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/first-dublin-city-council-social-housing-tenant-to-be-evicted-for-rent-arrears-1.4085923.

    TV LICENSE is a disgrace which is basically a form of theft


  • #75
    Always number 1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,139 ✭✭✭Always number 1


    blackbox wrote: »
    I'd say this is because the councils are a soft touch. Obviously there are some difficult cases, but I suspect that a large proportion of these defaulters keep up their payments for Sky and are able to buy a few drinks and maybe even cigarettes - things they see as a higher priority than paying the rent.

    I don't think its that the Councils are a soft touch but they're in a catch 22 situation - evict them for non payment of rent, end up putting them up in emergency accommodation.. that and the "woe is me" brigade running to the media because the big bad council turfed them out..

    Revenue have no issue deducting property tax from your wages or bank account if you dont pay so why can the same not be done here? The rents are minimal and based on their weekly income so there's no earthly reason for them to not pay


  • #76
    katiek102010
    Registered Users Posts: 1,106 ✭✭✭katiek102010


    Always number 1 wrote: »
    I don't think its that the Councils are a soft touch but they're in a catch 22 situation - evict them for non payment of rent, end up putting them up in emergency accommodation.. that and the "woe is me" brigade running to the media because the big bad council turfed them out..

    Revenue have no issue deducting property tax from your wages or bank account if you dont pay so why can the same not be done here? The rents are minimal and based on their weekly income so there's no earthly reason for them to not pay

    It is easily done too. Central government just have to a mend the legislation to cover local government debt.

    To save face and to prevent snowflake outcry an examination of means can be completed with the debtor to ensure repayments don't cause them severe financial hardship.


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