Pay Per View Premier League Games

beakerjoe · 09-10-2020 3:06pm #1

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/oct/09/premier-league-to-introduce-pay-per-view-fixtures-on-sky-and-bt-sport

Cant say I will be tempted to pay for games in packs of 5. I already pay enough for games.

09-10-2020 3:09pm

Hmmm. This is only for the 5 games not televised to be fair. So will still get the average amount of live games we were getting last year.

Ludo · 09-10-2020 3:11pm

£14.95 per match...I don't think so.

They would get so many more I would think if they charged a reasonable fee such as a fiver a match or something. 15 is way OTT.

You can be sure the "big" games which would normally be on Sky and BT will suddenly be PPV next month when this continues.

NIMAN · 09-10-2020 3:11pm

The Premier League are in for a big surprise I'm guessing.

I think the casual fan isn't buying the 'new football' with no fans. Its soulless. The canned noise will only fool some for a while.

Going to see money dry up in a big way.

Deeper Blue · 09-10-2020 3:18pm

Nearly 20 quid to watch a game with no fans, are they taking the piss?

Mr.Nice Guy · 09-10-2020 3:19pm

Disappointing but not surprising. The PPV model is a cancer.

Oat23 · 09-10-2020 3:21pm

This is insane. Isn't it over 90 euro per month for Sky now with the sports packs? And now another £14.95 if the powers that be don't choose your team for the normal TV coverage.

CSF · 09-10-2020 3:30pm

I think most tv providers here don’t even have access to Sky Sports and BT Box Office. Am I wrong with that?

mamax · 09-10-2020 3:32pm

I can see them cut the odd man utd/liverpool/arsenal/chelsea game and make them ppv.
Then johnny blogs that can afford a game will have all his friends over to watch it, prepare for premier league sponsored covid-19 outbreaks across the uk as if they are not bad enough already.

Julez · 09-10-2020 3:33pm

The premier league is so out of touch. Having access to watch every game your team is in is ridiculously priced.

I'd love to have Sky and BT and Ultra HD and all the rest, but I can't justify the price. Even then, you wouldn't get every game.

I, like many, have moved to vacationing in far off lands to watch the games, if you get my drift. Can watch all the games at a fraction of the price in fairly reliable conditions. It's not surprising at all that so many people do this. I used to pirate computer games before Steam came along, used to pirate movies/tv before Netflix came along, used to pirate music before Spotify came along. But now that I can get all these things easily and reasonably priced I do them all through legal means.

Until football does that they will keep losing out on business. I do understand that Piracy will bring up the price as a whole, but from fragmenting their game packages and not making every game available they've forced people into it.

CantGetNoSleep · 09-10-2020 3:35pm

Dodgy box for me still.

Interesting that live football is one of the last business models refusing to adapt and provide a legal offering at a reasonable cost - in the way music, tv/film, and US sports already have

JPA · 09-10-2020 3:35pm

Streaming as the main platform for watching games is inevitable but that is 3 or 4 times too dear.

peejay1986 · 09-10-2020 3:45pm

Absolutely extortionate price. Problem is, many people will pay it and they deserve to watch a 0-0 for their stupidity.

It was always inevitable the PL would introduce this kind of model, but a subscription based model would've been much more sensible. I think people would pay a monthly / yearly fee for an On Demand service for PL games. It's a proven model that works in other sports - particularly US Sports (MLB TV, NFL Game Pass etc) and F1.

They're so behind the times in adopting a digital strategy and now, when they finally do, it's an archaic pricing model, more akin to that of Sky.

Illegal streaming will increase even more and more power to those trying to fight this carry on.

CSF · 09-10-2020 4:05pm

I hadn’t realised that they were moving all the games from the 3 pm bulk slot aswell. That makes it worse too.

spurshero · 09-10-2020 4:10pm

Will this new pay per view be a long term gig ?

duffman13 · 09-10-2020 4:32pm

Jesus christ! Its really not that difficult, do a premier league season ticket for fans of one particular team of like 50-100 a year. Id probably pay even if I had other means of watching.

Its bizarre to price it like that! It'll just push more fans with legitimate subscriptions on to IPTV and potentially lose existing customers

el Fenomeno · 09-10-2020 4:49pm

To be honest, it's getting to the stage where someone would have to pay me to watch United, so this is an easy no for me.

ArmaniJeanss · 09-10-2020 4:52pm

duffman13 wrote: »

Jesus christ! Its really not that difficult, do a premier league season ticket for fans of one particular team of like 50-100 a year. Id probably pay even if I had other means of watching.

By my maths that would only take in a fraction of what they currently get from their existing TV deal.

Existing TV deal is around £1.6B a season.
If even 1 million people bought a MUFC season ticket at say £75 (the midpoint of your prices) then it's just £75M. That's less than 1/20 of the money currently coming in, and MUFC are a heavily supported club who would be expected to bring one of the biggest shares to the pot. And 1 million people seems over-optimistic to me anyway.

But even then you have the issue of them taking on all the expense of organising the broadcasting themselves. At the moment the EPL gets that £1.6B and BT/Sky do all the legwork from advertising up to the technicalities of getting the product to the screen.

So I think it is far more difficult than you suggest.

Royale with Cheese · 09-10-2020 5:21pm

Lol £15, go and shíte. You'd think even the oldest most technically incompetent football fans will be reading on streaming now if that's the price they're going to charge.

lertsnim · 09-10-2020 6:02pm

The games already would have had full camera crews covering them so why is it so expensive. £15 is robbery and I'd rather watch a ****e stream than pay it.

Degag · 09-10-2020 7:37pm

Absolutely crazy price point. As others have said it just shows how out of touch the PL and Sky are with the ordinary people.

Anyone who has Sky & BT is already paying €100+ a month for their TV. If on average each club have 2 games on PPV a month, Sky are expecting people to pay 50% more?

Scandalous.

Mushy · 09-10-2020 8:48pm

Degag wrote: »

Absolutely crazy price point. As others have said it just shows how out of touch the PL and Sky are with the ordinary people.

Anyone who has Sky & BT is already paying €100+ a month for their TV. If on average each club have 2 games on PPV a month, Sky are expecting people to pay 50% more?

Scandalous.

I know if most leeds games go to PPV I'll just cancel the sports and not bother with the PPV. I surely wouldnt be the only one doing the same, so may not be as beneficial as they predict. Completely mad move altogether

larchielads · 09-10-2020 9:09pm

They did this before if memory serves me right. Think it was 5pound a game think sky/ntl back at the time charged 7.50euro. Wasnt worth it back then either think my mate ordered a sunderland v someone else at the time. He wasnt a fan of either team. Think he only ordered a couple more after it. No big games or maybe one or two big games made available eventually.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/PremPlus found it

Degag · 09-10-2020 9:25pm

larchielads wrote: »

They did this before if memory serves me right. Think it was 5pound a game think sky/ntl back at the time charged 7.50euro. Wasnt worth it back then either think my mate ordered a sunderland v someone else at the time. He wasnt a fan of either team. Think he only ordered a couple more after it. No big games or maybe one or two big games made available eventually.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/PremPlus found it

Yeah it was €9.99 a game if i remember correctly though.

rob316 · 09-10-2020 9:28pm

OmegaGene wrote: »

This is madness and will just push more people into the other options for free streaming, the prem league announced they have new tech that costs millions and blocks streams and court orders have been put in place so the isp has to comply but it’s not working
15 quid a game is way too expensive as an add on for PPV

Those blocks don't work. Sure they took down x-codes which killed IPTV for about 50m subscribers. Most were back up within a day on another system.
Piracy has never been able to be stopped. The premier League will go the same was as games went, music went eventually.

rob316 · 09-10-2020 9:41pm

It's just disgusting. The wages, transfer fees, agent fees they just can't be justified, football desperately needs a reset. Now PPV football is last straw

lertsnim · 09-10-2020 9:46pm

larchielads wrote: »

They did this before if memory serves me right. Think it was 5pound a game think sky/ntl back at the time charged 7.50euro. Wasnt worth it back then either think my mate ordered a sunderland v someone else at the time. He wasnt a fan of either team. Think he only ordered a couple more after it. No big games or maybe one or two big games made available eventually.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/PremPlus found it

Difference then was you could buy a season ticket for all of the PPV games for a reasonable fee

CSF · 09-10-2020 10:18pm

rob316 wrote: »

It's just disgusting. The wages, transfer fees, agent fees they just can't be justified, football desperately needs a reset. Now PPV football is last straw

Basic capitalism though right?

gimli2112 · 09-10-2020 10:20pm

I imagine a lot of people became disillusioned with how much they were paying sky. I know I did years ago. This won't have me rushing back with my wallet.
tbh I think I had three soccer subscriptions at one point

CSF · 09-10-2020 10:26pm

gimli2112 wrote: »

I imagine a lot of people became disillusioned with how much they were paying sky. I know I did years ago. This won't have me rushing back with my wallet.
tbh I think I had three soccer subscriptions at one point

Fairly sure they’ll have done modelling on this and calculated whether the money they bring on this will be more than the money they lose on people cancelling their subscriptions altogether. Hopefully, for the future they’ve gotten this one wrong.

People are mad into their ‘pricing the fans out of football’ stuff but people are being naive if they think the powers that be in both the league and the clubs have a focus on anything other than maximising profit.

Loyalty to the clubs in modern day is just another way for them to guarantee that money keeps coming.

c.p.w.g.w · 09-10-2020 10:33pm

If the premier League provided their games for a modest fee they might fight the illegal box trade...but no they insist on charging a fortune while still stuffing your face with endless adverts

Umaro · 09-10-2020 11:03pm

The standard Sky package with Sky, BT and Premier Sports is around €90-€100 per month?

Now throw an extra €15-€30 on this each month when your team is only on PPV.

You want to watch in HD since you have a nice tv? That's another €10 please, even though HD was introduced 15 years ago we're still treating it as something 'special'.

As much as €140 per month to get all the games.

I use a dodgy source for all my needs, and its SIX euro per month. Premier League is going to hemorrhage money as people start to look to other sources and never come back.

Richard Hillman · 10-10-2020 12:24am

Unfortunately there are people who will actually pay for this. Its generally being directed at the fans of the clubs as opposed to the neutrals. Although I don't think it's any coincidence that Man Utd are one of the first games on it.

Football fans that pay for this are the reason why clubs walk all over them. You see the likes of Newcastle fans every year buying their season tickets. Ireland fans that kept on going to games during the Delaney era. They are all part of the problem. Unless people walk away and Boycott, then it will continue.

For the Premier League in general. 1 season (maybe even 6 months) of everybody unsubscribing to Sky/BT and it would send them under. But fans still sponsor it by paying for subscriptions, season tickets etc.

You get what you deserve.

Tom Mann Centuria · 10-10-2020 12:37am

Umaro wrote: »

The standard Sky package with Sky, BT and Premier Sports is around €90-€100 per month?

Now throw an extra €15-€30 on this each month when your team is only on PPV.

You want to watch in HD since you have a nice tv? That's another €10 please, even though HD was introduced 15 years ago we're still treating it as something 'special'.

As much as €140 per month to get all the games.

I use a dodgy source for all my needs, and its SIX euro per month. Premier League is going to hemorrhage money as people start to look to other sources and never come back.

6 yo-yos is a bargain, stand by for a full inbox :pac:

Fr Tod Umptious · 10-10-2020 9:17am

larchielads wrote: »

They did this before if memory serves me right. Think it was 5pound a game think sky/ntl back at the time charged 7.50euro. Wasnt worth it back then either think my mate ordered a sunderland v someone else at the time. He wasnt a fan of either team. Think he only ordered a couple more after it. No big games or maybe one or two big games made available eventually.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/PremPlus found it

It ended when the EU stopped Sky's monopoly on broadcasting premier league games.

That's when BT jointed in the party and two subscriptions started to be required.

Fitz* · 10-10-2020 10:22am

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Although I don't think it's any coincidence that Man Utd are one of the first games on it.

You see the likes of Newcastle fans every year buying their season tickets.

Just want to take these two points.

Full agree with you that it's no coincidence that Man Utd are one of the first clubs, and Liverpool the week after. They know they people will fork over the money for it.

Also on the Newcastle bit, I listened to a podcast a few months back that had a Newcastle fan on and he was complaining that Newcastle were being selected for MNF games more than anyone else in the league. But always away from home. And he had the stats to back it up. It's because the broadcasters know that Newcastle fans will always get pissed up and travel to the away game and sing and make noise for the 90 mins, thus creating a great atmosphere and a great TV product. They were not getting the home games against Watford or Fulham or whoever or a Monday night, but they would get Bournemouth or Southampton away on a Monday night. He complained about it, but said that because they love their team, they are still gonna do it every season anyways.

RasTa · 10-10-2020 10:49am

OmegaGene wrote: »

€6 a month
Try and beat €3 and then you’re beating me

Zero

Tom Mann Centuria · 10-10-2020 10:52am

RasTa wrote: »

Zero

They pay me.

Mushy · 10-10-2020 11:23am

First week of games there

Agent Coulson · 10-10-2020 11:36am

There is not one game there that would even tempt me to play a fiver for let alone £15 a neutral fan of those teams involved.

adaminho · 10-10-2020 11:49am

https://www.leedsunitedtrust.com/pl-ppv-plans-statement/

Francie Barrett · 10-10-2020 12:12pm

Umaro wrote: »

The standard Sky package with Sky, BT and Premier Sports is around €90-€100 per month?

Now throw an extra €15-€30 on this each month when your team is only on PPV.

You want to watch in HD since you have a nice tv? That's another €10 please, even though HD was introduced 15 years ago we're still treating it as something 'special'.

As much as €140 per month to get all the games.

I use a dodgy source for all my needs, and its SIX euro per month. Premier League is going to hemorrhage money as people start to look to other sources and never come back.

That is what kills me. It's having to pay a flat monthly rate, then be lumped with fees for anything extra that should really be inclusive like HD.

I actually think that £15 for a single game on demand (with no other strings or subscriptions required) is a reasonable price point. If it's £40 for a single ticket at the turnstile, then £15 is acceptable, especially if you have a few friends around to watch the game. They could probably do a season ticket at a discount (say £400), which works out at a tenner a game.

The big problem is that piracy is warping the economic value of watching sport and television in general. As many people here are saying, you can get pirated streams of every single thing on TV for €3-6 a month, or nothing. How do the tv companies even compete with their content being stolen and basically offered for nothing? Quite simply, they can't.

Realistically, the only solution they have in the long term is a clamp down on the pirate streams. Greater enforcement of fines and penalties against the pirates, more resources being spent on tracking down the providers, forcing ISP's to become more proactive in blocking pirates, etc. Lots of folks here won't like it, but I am guessing tougher measures will come at some point.

duffman13 · 10-10-2020 12:18pm

To be honest someone with a sky or BT subscription should have been given the option at least to select a team of choice and then any non televised games they get for free. You can pay for anything outside of that. Its bizarre, I moved away from Sky/BT etc after it got near 100 quid a month. I literally watch Premier league games and 1000 a year is mental for this!

Its a decision that will show people the benefits of the other options available

Heighway61 · 10-10-2020 12:42pm

I read somewhere before that ultimately the Premier League would like to ditch Sky and go full pay-per-view, in some form. With this development, looks like they want to get some money in with the absence of paying match-goers. Could also be a tester for things to come?

Indestructable · 10-10-2020 1:38pm

I only heard about these plans this morning and I am fuming. I pay 83 a month for Sky and all the sports packages and that's more than enough. I went down the dodgy box route before but the crap internet here in the sticks meant it was pure frustration.

When I got a better job I said I would treat myself to the sports. I enjoy football, F1 and rugby. American football too the odd weekend. So it was worth it to me.

Now they slap you with this ****e in the middle of a pandemic and at the start of a recession. Of course it'll be the bigger teams on it too.

I hope it fails miserably and I won't be handing over another cent.

10-10-2020 1:54pm

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

By my maths that would only take in a fraction of what they currently get from their existing TV deal.

Existing TV deal is around £1.6B a season.
If even 1 million people bought a MUFC season ticket at say £75 (the midpoint of your prices) then it's just £75M. That's less than 1/20 of the money currently coming in, and MUFC are a heavily supported club who would be expected to bring one of the biggest shares to the pot. And 1 million people seems over-optimistic to me anyway.

But even then you have the issue of them taking on all the expense of organising the broadcasting themselves. At the moment the EPL gets that £1.6B and BT/Sky do all the legwork from advertising up to the technicalities of getting the product to the screen.

So I think it is far more difficult than you suggest.

Less than 1/20 of the total for one clubs sub and you are underestimating how many would buy it.

I’ve been saying this for ages, make an affordable product that gives people what they want and people will pay the legit subs. Look at NFL, Spotify, Netflix and amazon prime (combined they are still less than 20 a month) etc.

I stopped paying for sky years ago and have used various different “alternatives” none costing more than 10 euro a month and enabling to get all the matches every team plays.

The idea of a pass for Liverpool only would be very palatable, only thing is I do like to watch other matches too so wouldn’t like a situation of having to pay for other subs. Something like nfl game pass that has all matches for all teams for say 15 to 20 a month (across the 10 months or so if the season) and I think most would pay that without hesitation.

CSF · 10-10-2020 2:37pm

Eduardo Large Blackjack wrote: »

Less than 1/20 of the total for one clubs sub and you are underestimating how many would buy it.

I’ve been saying this for ages, make an affordable product that gives people what they want and people will pay the legit subs. Look at NFL, Spotify, Netflix and amazon prime (combined they are still less than 20 a month) etc.

I stopped paying for sky years ago and have used various different “alternatives” none costing more than 10 euro a month and enabling to get all the matches every team plays.

The idea of a pass for Liverpool only would be very palatable, only thing is I do like to watch other matches too so wouldn’t like a situation of having to pay for other subs. Something like nfl game pass that has all matches for all teams for say 15 to 20 a month (across the 10 months or so if the season) and I think most would pay that without hesitation.

They’ve already shown how much can be milked out of it with Sky and BT subscriptions. Why would they drop the prices to 15-20 a month?

Realistically if they had a platform with all games it would be closer to 100 a month than 15-20.

Think how much we’d already be paying for the Sky/BT subscriptions that don’t even have usually 50% of the games.

While the 50% they don’t have are usually the less attractive games, it would still be an upward curve on the price to add them also.

The problem here is how much they’re charging. 300 euro (if you were obsessed and wanted to watch ALL the games) a month is just insane and seems poorly thought through.

However, it’s clear they’re looking instead at hitting people’s loyalty with the end aim being 15 euro for all the games your team plays in a month which is probably about 60 euro extra a month, minus whatever games your teams are televised in.

Still, people need to get out of the mindset that big corporations owe us something for our loyalty, and into the mindset of acting with our wallets, because they’ve come up with this pricing on the basis that they believe people will pay it.

Electric Nitwit · 10-10-2020 2:46pm

Heighway61 wrote: »

I read somewhere before that ultimately the Premier League would like to ditch Sky and go full pay-per-view, in some form. With this development, looks like they want to get some money in with the absence of paying match-goers. Could also be a tester for things to come?

The Athletic had an article on it in Feb

Said the current package is worth £3bn
200m worldwide pay to watch
If they could go direct and that many paid the equivalent of £10/m then that's £24bn, a big jump.
That figure comes from what the NBA Pass is, so they used that as a comparison. No doubt they'd try for more

But it's more risky as the current packages are guaranteed. And there's the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" inertia

Shame, I'd gladly pay a tenner or so a month, I'm sure most would. It'll happen one day

CSF · 10-10-2020 2:49pm

Electric Nitwit wrote: »

The Athletic had an article on it in Feb

Said the current package is worth £3bn
200m worldwide pay to watch
If they could go direct and that many paid the equivalent of £10/m then that's £24bn, a big jump

But it's more risky as the current packages are guaranteed. And there's the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" inertia

Shame, I'd gladly pay a tenner or so a month, I'm sure most would. It'll happen one day

I still don’t know where you get the idea that it’d be a tenner a month. People would pay multiple times more than that so they’ll charge more. I mean they’re already charging more than that for ONE game.

ArmaniJeanss · 10-10-2020 2:52pm

Eduardo Large Blackjack wrote: »

Less than 1/20 of the total for one clubs sub and you are underestimating how many would buy it.

I’ve been saying this for ages, make an affordable product that gives people what they want and people will pay the legit subs. Look at NFL, Spotify, Netflix and amazon prime (combined they are still less than 20 a month) etc.

The point of 1/20th was that there is 20 teams and MUFC would be expected to be a way above average contributor. Yet 1 million season tickets at £75 (a price suggested by the poster I was replying to) doesn't bring in even 1/20th of the current £1.6B per year of the UK/Ire TV deal.

Why do you think I'm underestimating with one million? It seems an over estimation to me. UK/Irl population is 71M - but adults who like football is maybe 15M. Those who support MUFC (or would be interested enough to subscribe) is clearly just a fraction of that.
The likes of Brighton and Burnley aren't going to bring in much than 25,000 subs, so MUFC/Pool etc have to take the slack.

At £75 you would need 21M subscriptions to maintain the current TV deal income. And as I said that's before the new costs of having to build a platform, provide the product yourself (cameras, electrics, buying satellite space). And a massive advertising campaign (currently Sky/BT can effectively advertise for nothing on their own stations).

At the end of the day, the purpose isn't to find a price-point at which you or duffman are willing to pay. It's to find a profitable price-point for everyone.

But look, I've shown you my maths - if you think I'm wrong then I'd welcome you trying to convince me in kind.

Oat23 · 10-10-2020 3:00pm

I pay €30 per month for Sky Germany. Came with a Sky Q box and includes HD as standard (+ €5 if I wanted UHD, but not worth it).

For €30 I get the basic entertainment package, the Sky Bundesliga channels which have every game from the Bundesliga & 2. Bundesliga live in HD (bar one game per week on DAZN). Also the Sky Sports package, which has 230+ EPL games live. I think that is slightly more than Sky & BT show combined. Has all the other stuff as well obviously like F1, Golf, Champions League. I also love handball and they show a lot of it live which is brilliant.

I used to use cardsharing (pirate TV basically) for all this, but it's so affordable (€7.50 per week) why not go the legal route?

I also share a DAZN DE subscription with a friend (€60 per year each and we can both watch at the same time). That has a ridiculous amount of stuff like boxing PPVs, MMA PPVs. All the nations league games. Europa League. NBA/NFL/MLB. MLS. Serie A. La Liga. Ligue 1. Tennis. Darts. Championship football. Probably a dozen other things I'm forgetting.

We've been getting shafted in the UK/Ireland for far too long by Sky and the other providers. They'd never get away with it in other countries. I believe Sky in Italy is around €40 per month for the package with all the football and in Spain it's similar. Here you have to pay over €100 for football.

The bloated TV deal which is needed so bang average English players can earn 100k per week when they'd be on 10k in any other country is what is causing all of this. Just pure greed.

Pay Per View Premier League Games

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