Greatest League in the World 2024 [new thread available]

Irishmale0399 · 22-02-2020 10:38pm

artanevilla wrote: »

We don't walk away from our club.

Owners walk away from clubs every day for various reasons......name one club in the LOI where it hasnt happened....

artanevilla · 22-02-2020 10:46pm

Irishmale0399 wrote: »

Owners walk away from clubs every day for various reasons......name one club in the LOI where it hasnt happened....

Bohs.

Irishmale0399 · 22-02-2020 10:54pm

artanevilla wrote: »

Bohs.

The mighty Bohs who had to sell the club silver when on the brink and today are reliant on the council building them a new home if it ever happens....supporters owned relying on public money to sort their problems out. Could you imagine if Limerick, Waterford or Dundalk tried the same.....

MD1990 · 22-02-2020 11:13pm

https://twitter.com/McDonnellDan/status/1231339159710838785

Looks like Rovers getting Rory Gaffney.

Good addition.

wadacrack · 22-02-2020 11:23pm

MD1990 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/McDonnellDan/status/1231339159710838785

Looks like Rovers getting Rory Gaffney.

Good addition.

I would have Rovers favorites to win the title now. The 3-5-2 seems to really suit the players they have also. Big game v Dundalk Friday.

topmanamillion · 22-02-2020 11:35pm

Irishmale0399 wrote: »

Owners walk away from clubs every day for various reasons......name one club in the LOI where it hasnt happened....

Sligo Rovers.
Been fan owned from the very beginning. From the door to door collections of the 60s which took 4 years collecting a few shillings every week from houses that could hardly afford it to buy the land the Showgrounds sits on to the present day where €400,000+ comes in every year from fundraising and donations.

Never had an owner. Never will.

Will still be going after the Yanks, Desmond and the rest are distant memories.

Rooted to the bottom of the First Division we'd still have a club and our ground because our fans would never let go of either.

Shine and shine forever!

Gavin "shels" · 23-02-2020 12:20am

Happy enough with our performance yesterday, could have easily nicked a draw and we would have been worth it imo. Dundalk were just technically miles better.

artanevilla · 23-02-2020 11:35am

Irishmale0399 wrote: »

The mighty Bohs who had to sell the club silver when on the brink and today are reliant on the council building them a new home if it ever happens....supporters owned relying on public money to sort their problems out. Could you imagine if Limerick, Waterford or Dundalk tried the same.....

Are bucket collections not relying on public money?

White Horse · 23-02-2020 12:40pm

wadacrack wrote: »

I would have Rovers favorites to win the title now. The 3-5-2 seems to really suit the players they have also. Big game v Dundalk Friday.

They should be favourites. Did I read that they had 4 or 5 internationals in their starting line up on Friday?

Irishmale0399 · 23-02-2020 12:48pm

artanevilla wrote: »

Are bucket collections not relying on public money?

http://www.dublinpeople.com/news/northsidewest/articles/2020/01/20/4184581-dalymount-project-moves-to-next-stage/

Dublin City Council confirmed to Northside People that the cost of the Dalymount project is expected to come in at €35 million, including VAT and construction inflation. It said that funding for the redevelopment will come from a combination of Central Government funding, via the next round of the Large Scale Sport Infrastructure Fund grant; the sale of Tolka Park; Dublin City Council development contribution funding; and funding from the FAI towards the installation of the pitch.
When asked about the timescale for the delivery of the project, the council said: “It is very much dependent of funding becoming available from Government but the ambition is to have the redeveloped stadium ready for the start of the 2024 season.
In a statement, Bohemian FC welcomed the €918,750 allocation of funding from the Government. It said the Dalymount Park plan, in conjunction with the proposed redevelopment of Phibsborough Shopping Centre, offered a unique opportunity to develop a community-owned sporting and cultural space in heart of Dublin 7 for generations to come.
“Bohemian FC look forward to continuing to work closely with all the relevant stakeholders

Doesnt mention any buckets......but then again maybe the council will deliver the money in buckets. If the club are relying on bucket collections to run its day to day business then they shouldnt have a licence for the LOI.

White Horse · 23-02-2020 12:54pm

Irishmale0399 wrote: »

http://www.dublinpeople.com/news/northsidewest/articles/2020/01/20/4184581-dalymount-project-moves-to-next-stage/

Doesnt mention any buckets......but then again maybe the council will deliver the money in buckets. If the club are relying on bucket collections to run its day to day business then they shouldnt have a licence for the LOI.

Public funding is the use of money collected by the state from the public without their agreement to to how it is subsequently spent.

Bucket collections are private donations in a public space voluntarily given in full knowledge of its use.

kksaints · 23-02-2020 12:57pm

Irishmale0399 wrote: »

http://www.dublinpeople.com/news/northsidewest/articles/2020/01/20/4184581-dalymount-project-moves-to-next-stage/

Doesnt mention any buckets......but then again maybe the council will deliver the money in buckets. If the club are relying on bucket collections to run its day to day business then they shouldnt have a licence for the LOI.

Didn't Dundalk do a bucket collection in 2012 when the save our club initiative started when they were struggling?

artanevilla · 23-02-2020 1:26pm

kksaints wrote: »

Didn't Dundalk do a bucket collection in 2012 when the save our club initiative started when they were struggling?

That's what I was referring to. Bohs saved their own club, some members even remortgaged houses. There was no begging bowl out to other LOI clubs.

doncarlos · 23-02-2020 1:28pm

kksaints wrote: »

Didn't Dundalk do a bucket collection in 2012 when the save our club initiative started when they were struggling?

Bag packing too. Really looked like we were going to the wall until Paul and Andy took over club and cleared debts

Irishmale0399 · 23-02-2020 1:34pm

artanevilla wrote: »

That's what I was referring to. Bohs saved their own club, some members even remortgaged houses. There was no begging bowl out to other LOI clubs.

Mattews stepped in and saved the club, lumbered it with debts after building the YDC at Oriel and then after a time of uncertainty 2 Dundalk fans stepped up and saved the club. They turned a loss maker into a profit sale. Hence why this all started with the question of how many times have owners walked away from a club with a profit.

Bohs....were on the brink, sold their ground and are relient on tax payers money to build them a new home. All at the same time spout out of them that we are a fans owned club......why havent the fans come up with the money to build them a ground???

joeysoap · 23-02-2020 2:08pm

Two previous owners might well have taken a lot more if they wanted. Left Dundalk with a pretty healthy bank account. I don’t know, but I’d say they took whatever they spend and left the rest. Some posters on here post about Peak6 money but as far as I know they haven’t had to use any of their money yet.

That every club should be so lucky with owners as good as the last ones.
Good luck to the fan based clubs too. It’s great if it works. Why is Bohs plsaying budget so low though, they have a great fan base, and very little ground expenses. Can actually let it fall down, council have to fix it. Their only renters?

topmanamillion · 23-02-2020 2:12pm

joeysoap wrote: »

Some posters on here post about Peak6 money but as far as I know they haven’t had to use any of their money yet.

Surely this is a bad thing. They're essentially playing with house money. What happens when that runs out?

Irishmale0399 · 23-02-2020 2:17pm

[QUOTE=joeysoap;112620803Left Dundalk with a pretty healthy bank account. I don’t know, but I’d say they took whatever they spend and left the rest. Some posters on here post about Peak6 money but as far as I know they haven’t had to use any of their money yet.
[/QUOTE]

If I am correctly informed they have put money in to cover the cost of some of their mistakes....they are also covering the wages of certain appointments made since they took over.

Irishmale0399 · 23-02-2020 2:22pm

topmanamillion wrote: »

Surely this is a bad thing. They're essentially playing with house money. What happens when that runs out?

If we are honest...Peak6 bought the club..so whatever was in the bank is theirs and not the clubs or the fans. Its a business and not a public charity. We have to trust that they are there with the right intentions and so far they havent done anything to make me think differently. They made pretty clear at their public meeting after buying that their short term plan was to have the best team in Ireland and to get into European football. 2 years on it is the case. Medium term planning was to look at the ground....for that they have a few years left.

topmanamillion · 23-02-2020 2:33pm

Irishmale0399 wrote: »

If we are honest...Peak6 bought the club..so whatever was in the bank is theirs and not the clubs or the fans. Its a business and not a public charity. We have to trust that they are there with the right intentions and so far they havent done anything to make me think differently. They made pretty clear at their public meeting after buying that their short term plan was to have the best team in Ireland and to get into European football. 2 years on it is the case. Medium term planning was to look at the ground....for that they have a few years left.

From my point of view it makes absolutely no odds what happens at Dundalk.
I just see them making fairly heavy loses over the last few years which they can cover by dipping into the Euro money.

When that runs out it will most likely go one way.
Peak are not going to be in it for the long haul.
They were in a similar situation at Bournemouth, where Bournemouths stadium is the EPL equivalent of Oriel Park.

They stayed at Bournemouth until their investment had matured i.e when Bournemouth were a mid table side which is the maximum that can be achieved there. Then they cashed in.
There was never any talk of then stumping up for a new stadium or ground work.

What they're doing at Dundalk is called passive investment. Apart from appointing a few CEOs that don't stick around more than a few months and putting a gym in the YDC they haven't had to do too much.
If Dundalk hit the big time again, great they'll pocket that. If not they'll walk away at around break even point and don't be surprised if a seat hasn't been touched in Oriel by them.

Most likely there's someone looking at a computer screen in Chicago calculating the potential return on owning Dundalk versus the risk on investment. When the numbers turn twoards risky, they'll click sell/cut loses and walk away.
What they've really shown so far is they have no intention of ploughing money into the club.

There's zero fan pressure to improve Oriel and if needs be Tallaght is up the road for Euro games, so why improve it?

Irishmale0399 · 23-02-2020 3:02pm

topmanamillion wrote: »

From my point of view it makes absolutely no odds what happens at Dundalk.
I just see them making fairly heavy loses over the last few years which they can cover by dipping into the Euro money.

When that runs out it will most likely go one way.
Peak are not going to be in it for the long haul.
They were in a similar situation at Bournemouth, where Bournemouths stadium is the EPL equivalent of Oriel Park.

They stayed at Bournemouth until their investment had matured i.e when Bournemouth were a mid table side which is the maximum that can be achieved there. Then they cashed in.
There was never any talk of then stumping up for a new stadium or ground work.

What they're doing at Dundalk is called passive investment. Apart from appointing a few CEOs that don't stick around more than a few months and putting a gym in the YDC they haven't had to do too much.
If Dundalk hit the big time again, great they'll pocket that. If not they'll walk away at around break even point and don't be surprised if a seat hasn't been touched in Oriel by them.

Most likely there's someone looking at a computer screen in Chicago calculating the potential return on owning Dundalk versus the risk on investment. When the numbers turn twoards risky, they'll click sell/cut loses and walk away.
What they've really shown so far is they have no intention of ploughing money into the club.

There's zero fan pressure to improve Oriel and if needs be Tallaght is up the road for Euro games, so why improve it?

I completely agree with you. They are not there for the goodness of their health nor for their love of Dundalk. Its an investment....however they were open and honest about it from day one. They said their objective was to improve the playing side and players facilities short term and when money is being earned through Euro money they would look at the other infrastructure projects.*

Dundalk fans can protest all they like, these lads will walk away if and when they like. We as fans can only hope that this is something they stick with......
As for Oriel...why should they invest in it??? When they arrived 2 years ago I really think they got their eyes open....
1. JDs mates were helped, first and foremost. He had a lot against Peak6 and didnt want them owning DFC, today we know why!!
2. Politicians in Louth or at government level couldnt care less about the club
3. There is/was no money in LOI football, hence the Euro importance and risks.

*Now today, they are putting the idea out that the government should fund/support Oriels upgrade. Fair playing ground....
They have stepped away from English CEOs and restructured. Owners father is now chairman and locals are doing the day to day running of the club. Recent appointments suggest their is a plan in place and that Peak6 are learning from their mistakes.

As for playing Euro games in Tallaght....very few clubs in Ireland would be in a position to play games in their own ground. Added to that one should not forget, Oriel as bad as it is, is still fully open for use, unlike other grounds in the LOI, where parts have been closed for health and safety reasons.

major bill · 23-02-2020 3:32pm

artanevilla wrote: »

Are bucket collections not relying on public money?

Relying on the good nature of fellow LOI fans can’t see most been as generous when they are back out in a few years after the club goes to the wall!

Zebra3 · 23-02-2020 5:57pm

Irishmale0399 wrote: »

As for Oriel...why should they invest in it??? When they arrived 2 years ago I really think they got their eyes open....

They bought the club without visiting Oriel?

Liberta Per Gli Ultra · 23-02-2020 6:18pm

topmanamillion wrote: »

Sligo Rovers.
Been fan owned from the very beginning. From the door to door collections of the 60s which took 4 years collecting a few shillings every week from houses that could hardly afford it to buy the land the Showgrounds sits on to the present day where €400,000+ comes in every year from fundraising and donations.

Never had an owner. Never will.

Will still be going after the Yanks, Desmond and the rest are distant memories.

Rooted to the bottom of the First Division we'd still have a club and our ground because our fans would never let go of either.

The way it should be. The main purpose of any football club around the world is to exist, decade after decade, and represent the people and culture of its city or town. That's not a lack of ambition, it's an acknowledgement that winning trophies and money will never be as important as simply being part of a club.

joeysoap wrote: »

Good luck to the fan based clubs too. It’s great if it works.

It works a hell of a lot better than the sugar daddy or investment fund models, that's an absolute certainty. All over the world, every time a football club is driven to the wall by some capitalist, the refounded club is likely to be fully or part owned by its fans. There's a reason for that, it's a rejection of the model that went before it.

A supporters-owned club runs into difficulty when its board and members start to lose the ideology and get a little impatient or greedy, like a person that goes from a socialist student to a selfish middle-aged FG voter.

joeysoap · 23-02-2020 7:35pm

I wasn’t being smart by the way. It really is great when it works.

Irishmale0399 · 23-02-2020 8:54pm

Zebra3 wrote: »

They bought the club without visiting Oriel?

Keep your knickers on.....they made it clear from day 1 that they needed European football to be able to do anything to Oriel. Hence the short team focus on the first team and medium/long term on Oriel.

skaface · 23-02-2020 10:09pm

Heads up to anyone going to the Rovers V Waterford game at the Rsc tomorrow night.. Kick Off is at an earlier time of 7 O' Clock

Ferris_Bueller · 23-02-2020 10:24pm

Cork nearly went out of business the other week.

How does this happen? I know they had an awful year last year but two seasons ago they were getting big crowds, challenging for the league, playing in Europe and seemed to be well supported by the local community. How has it gone pear shaped so quickly for them? If they were close to going bust it really shows that the league is not sustainable in its current state.

Zebra3 · 23-02-2020 10:35pm

Irishmale0399 wrote: »

Keep your knickers on.....they made it clear from day 1 that they needed European football to be able to do anything to Oriel. Hence the short team focus on the first team and medium/long term on Oriel.

You made a point that they really got their eyes open after they bought the club?

What surprised them?

topmanamillion · 23-02-2020 11:16pm

Ferris_Bueller wrote: »

Cork nearly went out of business the other week.

How does this happen? I know they had an awful year last year but two seasons ago they were getting big crowds, challenging for the league, playing in Europe and seemed to be well supported by the local community. How has it gone pear shaped so quickly for them? If they were close to going bust it really shows that the league is not sustainable in its current state.

Cork seem to have gotten a bit of a hop that there was going to be a simblence of a licensing criteria this year and they'd need to go and settle their tax bill and other debts.

They pushed Dundalk for a season too many. They threw the kitchen sink at in 2018 and Europa League football wasn't lucrative enough to cover the bills.
Clubs overstretching isn't sustainable. The various incarnations of LOI clubs in Cork City have been here many times before and you'd really think they'd have learnt their lesson.

Also would be very surprised if the Munster FA sold Turners Cross to a private owner. A serious amenity down there to take the chance with that it could be a housing estate in a few years.

CSF · 23-02-2020 11:17pm

Ferris_Bueller wrote: »

Cork nearly went out of business the other week.

How does this happen? I know they had an awful year last year but two seasons ago they were getting big crowds, challenging for the league, playing in Europe and seemed to be well supported by the local community. How has it gone pear shaped so quickly for them? If they were close to going bust it really shows that the league is not sustainable in its current state.

I’m also curious about this. I thought the fans running the club was to avoid stuff like this, tight financial management etc. Were they budgeting to win the league and a bit of European success or were there unforeseen costs that they weren’t aware of?

joeysoap · 23-02-2020 11:48pm

Two words there to strike fear into any fan............Peter Ridsdale.

Thr difference in winning the league and coming 2nd or 3rd is massive now, unless you progress to the 2nd or even 3rd round of Europa League, and that’s without the EL2 coming up.

Oat23 · 24-02-2020 10:14am

joeysoap wrote: »

Two words there to strike fear into any fan............Peter Ridsdale.

I don't think Cork need him. They do a good enough job at mismanaging their clubs without needing a professional's help.

Zebra3 · 24-02-2020 11:14am

I hear Nick Lesson is available... :pac:

dan1895 · 24-02-2020 11:36am

Harps v Shels off tonight. Let the fixture chaos commence.

overshoot · 24-02-2020 12:36pm

Seen a pic on the 54crew page, pitch is completely covered with snow, so right call. Pitch had been holding up well despite all the rain back home, few rivers have burst their banks in places.

GLaDOS · 24-02-2020 1:23pm

Pats v Derry off as well

artanevilla · 24-02-2020 1:30pm

Bohs Sligo should go ahead

White Horse · 24-02-2020 1:56pm

Ferris_Bueller wrote: »

Cork nearly went out of business the other week.

How does this happen? I know they had an awful year last year but two seasons ago they were getting big crowds, challenging for the league, playing in Europe and seemed to be well supported by the local community. How has it gone pear shaped so quickly for them? If they were close to going bust it really shows that the league is not sustainable in its current state.

They went toe to toe with Dundalk in a game of high stakes poker. Both clubs started out with modest budgets in 2014, but by 2018 both clubs were spending big.

Dundalk were bankrolled by the 2016 Europa run but also won 5 titles compared to a single title by Cork.

It could still go pear shaped for Dundalk as they are burning their way through cash.

major bill · 24-02-2020 2:08pm

Honestly think we need to start looking at a season starting in April or May and finishing in December.

Irishmale0399 · 24-02-2020 2:23pm

Zebra3 wrote: »

You made a point that they really got their eyes open after they bought the club?

What surprised them?

1. The condition of the FAI/LOI and how it was ruled
2. Lack of transparency related to marketing deals and TV rights
3. Lack of support related to free training/trainer certification
4. A mates club in Abbotstown
5. JDs power and the yes men around him
6. Licencing process or better said its use as a weapon

They knew there were problems but only realised how bad it was when they saw it for themselves. A perfect example being, Treacy asking for TV rights details and being told there was no deal, other clubs told him to shut up.......at the end of the day the FAI were exposed to having the deal tied in with the international deal. Funny how it was 3 non Dublin based clubs who pushed for it......

chopperbyrne · 24-02-2020 2:45pm

Why is Pats v Derry off?

Derry team stuck on the bus?

kksaints · 24-02-2020 2:45pm

chopperbyrne wrote: »

Why is Pats v Derry off?

Derry team stuck on the bus?

Waterlogged pitch.

Gavin "shels" · 24-02-2020 3:23pm

Summer football......

No sure how Richmond is waterlogged? Issue with the Camac? I know it was lashing down last night till the early hours but it's been double figure temperature and sunny since 9am....

w/s/p/c/ · 24-02-2020 3:51pm

Salford confirm Rory Gaffney has signed for Shamrock Rovers

topmanamillion · 24-02-2020 3:54pm

Irishmale0399 wrote: »

They knew there were problems but only realised how bad it was when they saw it for themselves. A perfect example being, Treacy asking for TV rights details and being told there was no deal, other clubs told him to shut up.......at the end of the day the FAI were exposed to having the deal tied in with the international deal. Funny how it was 3 non Dublin based clubs who pushed for it......

You regularly bring the TV deal thing up. It was common knowledge for donkeys years/long before peak came on the scene that the LOI was tied in with the International TV deal.
It was seen as the only way to get LOI games on free to air as RTE have no interest in showing them.

Irishmale0399 · 24-02-2020 4:15pm

topmanamillion wrote: »

You regularly bring the TV deal thing up. It was common knowledge for donkeys years/long before peak came on the scene that the LOI was tied in with the International TV deal.
It was seen as the only way to get LOI games on free to air as RTE have no interest in showing them.

Common knowlegde however never seen......the fact that money was indeed being paid for LOI games changed the whole thing. Clubs should have been getting their cut all along....not much but better than nothing. Also JD went public a number of times to say they were getting nothing and it was said that RTE offered to pay not to show games......something clubs now know were lies.

artanevilla · 24-02-2020 4:46pm

Gavin "shels" wrote: »

Summer football......

No sure how Richmond is waterlogged? Issue with the Camac? I know it was lashing down last night till the early hours but it's been double figure temperature and sunny since 9am....

Probably would be fine by this evening with no rain (haven't seen any pics) but under pressure to make a call early due to travelling from Derry etc.

topmanamillion · 24-02-2020 5:08pm

Irishmale0399 wrote: »

Common knowlegde however never seen......the fact that money was indeed being paid for LOI games changed the whole thing. Clubs should have been getting their cut all along....not much but better than nothing. Also JD went public a number of times to say they were getting nothing and it was said that RTE offered to pay not to show games......something clubs now know were lies.

According to Daniel McDonnell clubs were shocked to find how little the league was generating when the books were opened and it was laid out in front of them.
About €1.5 million in revenue from sponsorship, TV money and UEFA solidarity money. Desperately low stuff.

wadacrack · 24-02-2020 5:11pm

Irishmale0399 wrote: »

Common knowlegde however never seen......the fact that money was indeed being paid for LOI games changed the whole thing. Clubs should have been getting their cut all along....not much but better than nothing. Also JD went public a number of times to say they were getting nothing and it was said that RTE offered to pay not to show games......something clubs now know were lies.

Clubs should just be happy with the free exposure. The league needs to improve drastically for TV money to become an issue.

https://www.sseairtricityleague.ie/news/sse-airtricity-league-tv-pilot-launched/id-2751

The Pilot scheme for LOI failed with Cork and Dundalk last season. The standard in the league this season doesnot seem good to me. Was at two Premier Division games and thought both were of quite poor quality

Greatest League in the World 2024 [new thread available]

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