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10-02-2020, 20:46   #61
mrslancaster
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Originally Posted by Ray Palmer View Post
.... How they propose to pay for new housing without private investment has never been answered. They effectively never had a plan and just told the people what they wanted..
What about the 1% wealth tax on assets over one million? Lots of businesses & farmers would be in that category. There could be lots of properties in parts of the bigger cities there too.
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10-02-2020, 20:49   #62
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What about the 1% wealth tax on assets over one million? Lots of businesses & farmers would be in that category. There could be lots of properties in parts of the bigger cities there too.
The French wealth tax which is similar raises about 2 billion a year. They have a population of 66 million people, so I expect an Irish one to raise 200 million max.

Plus I can't wait to see the outrage when SF asks farmers to sell 1% of their land, as if that was somehow possible.
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10-02-2020, 20:53   #63
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Are people so reactionary that after seeing a field hospital being constructed quickly in China they think the solution to Irelands housing problems are getting a load of Chinese construction companies in to build.

You can ignore human rights for workers and throw up a load of tofu dregs. Standards of building in China can be really poor and there have been loads of scandals about it.
Hang on! Look at our shoddy build practices here , lots of fire compliance issues , pyrite and often appalling build quality
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10-02-2020, 21:08   #64
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The idea that Sinn Fein "don't understand economics" is laughable.

Fianna Fáil literally don't understand economics, and they demonstrated that by first of all creating the current problem that we have by not understanding the economic relationship between untapped unrestricted credit and the privarte property market. Second of all promising a housing manifesto of failed policies that have a proven track record of inflating prices.

Fine Gael have done a slightly better job, but again fell short of not understanding how their economic policies have not only pushed up the prices of homes, but have also resulted in the development of new units that nobody can afford which has completely stalled the way in which property developers in the private sector finance their building projects.

Sinn Féin (more importantly Eoin O'Broin) seems to be the only people who understand the economics of housing. They're trying two things, one of which is the only thing that has ever worked in addressing housing demand in the history of the state (state built social housing) and the other is a policy deviation whereby instead of copying and pasting all of the failed housing schemes from the UK (like FF/FG) he's copying other European models of housing that have worked. Cost rental etc.

That is why I and so many others voted for Sinn Féin as a former Fine Gael voter.

Last edited by Sheeps; 10-02-2020 at 22:27.
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10-02-2020, 21:23   #65
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.... he's copying other European models of housing that have worked. Cost rental etc..
how does that work? Who actually builds the housing- can't be private developers they want a profit & if its government funded then is that not social housing?
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10-02-2020, 21:30   #66
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So is their plan to present a blank cheque to the developers in order to outbid those who want hotels, offices etc. built?
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And does that mean all of that has to stop so they can fulfil their promises?
I think that is what they (naively) expect to happen. Realistically, the lead time is such that it is not that easy. I suspect the buildup in capacity since FG started to take it more seriously means that the new government will have good news to announce irrespective of their actual contribution.
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10-02-2020, 21:35   #67
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I do agree that we should be looking at the existing construction capacity rather than a mass import, however, the student accommodation is needed though because without it the students would just be competing with regular renters for regular private property.
Student accommodation is being built because it can be built to a much more dense capacity than normal apartments. However, there are backlashes coming. UCD students seem upset at the announcement if recent rent hikes and the focus on providing “expensive” accommodation, ie private rooms with en suite bathrooms and 4-5 per kitchen living room. The suggestion was that more shared facilities should be provided to cut costs and make it more affordable. Having seen a nephew’s NY dorm, basically a 12x12 shared room with communal showers/toilets and limited other facilities (catering is in canteens), I can see that for many Irish students the current accommodation is a bit luxurious. Most teenagers would not, for example, have access to a fully private bathroom in their family homes, off campus accommodation would more likely be shared bedrooms etc, I can see the point.

Revised apartment planning rules might shift the pattern of development.
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10-02-2020, 21:37   #68
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how does that work? Who actually builds the housing- can't be private developers they want a profit & if its government funded then is that not social housing?
It absolutely can be private developers. There's no reason private developers can't make a profit from building cost rental houses on government contract. In particular if it's large scale. This kind of things happens all the time across the continent.

Social housing is means tested housing for people who cant afford it.

Cost rental is where cheap credit is borrowed from Europe (at the moment with negative interest rates), and used to build homes on public land. The money borrowed is paid back in rent by tennants over the course of the credit agreement (equates to about €600-€800 per month). The house functions like private rental unit (in that it's not means tested) only the council is the landlord. It's open to everyone, unlike social housing. It's often called the Vienna model of housing because something like 60% of all housing in Vienna is this model.
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10-02-2020, 21:41   #69
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It absolutely can be private developers. There's no reason private developers can't make a profit from building cost rental houses on government contract. In particular if it's large scale. This kind of things happens all the time across the continent.

Social housing is means tested housing for people who cant afford it.

Cost rental is where cheap credit is borrowed from Europe (at the moment with negative interest rates), and used to build homes on public land. The money borrowed is paid back in rent by tennants over the course of the credit agreement (equates to about €600-€800 per month). The house functions like private rental unit (in that it's not means tested) only the council is the landlord. It's open to everyone, unlike social housing. It's often called the Vienna model of housing because something like 60% of all housing in Vienna is this model.
I can see why property owners are throwing their toys out of their prams with SF getting so popular. That is a more equitable model of housing.
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10-02-2020, 22:50   #70
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Originally Posted by Kamari Inexpensive Theory View Post
Most Dublin people lived and came from Public housing in the 70's,80's ,most people had good neighbours and lived relatively safe until the boom years hit.

Government support dropped off hughly ,gardai numbers dwindled ,lack of access to many sporting facilities , councils rehousing bad tenants in a rotation chain lead to the Crime ridding estates we are seeing now.

If Councils had a zero tolerance in re housing bad tenants and injected large funding to those/these estates we may of had a different outcome.
Left wing politicians oppose the eviction of delinquent tenants in social housing

Councils are under pressure to ignore the problem
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10-02-2020, 23:15   #71
hmmm
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Originally Posted by Sheeps View Post
Cost rental is where cheap credit is borrowed from Europe (at the moment with negative interest rates), and used to build homes on public land. The money borrowed is paid back in rent by tennants over the course of the credit agreement (equates to about €600-€800 per month).
Firstly, cheap credit comes from the bond markets, not Europe. They're willing to lend a certain amount, but they're going to be wary of lending to a SF government.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ountry-s-bonds

Secondly, rent collection from social housing tenants is a complete joke.
https://www.thejournal.ie/dublin-cit...56180-Jan2020/
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10-02-2020, 23:16   #72
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The housing situation has turned around. Rents are now falling, the homeless numbers are dropping and house prices are leveling off. The next government will claim credit for the work done by the last one. The banks are still on life support and no government will be allowed to crash the housing market.
where are rents falling?

in a midland town recently a 4 bed house was listed for €1200 per month and somebody came in and offered €1300 per month to secure the house

Last edited by beggars_bush; 10-02-2020 at 23:20.
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10-02-2020, 23:54   #73
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Originally Posted by Kamari Inexpensive Theory View Post
To answer you arseways Eu procurement line, it states The EU law on procurement requires public bodies to open up higher-value contract opportunities to bids across European Union. ........Meaning it requires EU countries to open up contracts to more European countries it doesn't state that we have to pick a European country just consider them in the running for Builder/developer Contracts if that's what you are trying to say?.......No doubt another FG supporter licking there wounds from the beating of the electorate..
That is exactly what I'm saying. It has to be open to all EU and possibly beyond. What I am roasting that poster on is that they said that they should restrict it to ONLY Chinese construction companies. That would not be allowed. It would have to be open to all suitable EU firms too.

Anyway, in the end even if a Chinese firm did get it, sure they would be likely to just subcontract the job out to an Irish firm who in turn will sub it down to local operators and contractors who will hire the exact same Polish plumbers, Brazilian blocklayers and Pakistani plasterers supervised by the same mucksavage farmers son from Offaly.
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11-02-2020, 00:02   #74
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At what cost. Will SF provide all social housing if they run with all they have been saying the day of the private landlord will be coming to a close.
I think the idea is that instead of paying social welfare to private landlord with no return to the state that building a large amount of social housing and charging a rent dependant on income . Also freeing up rental private properties and levelling out rents
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11-02-2020, 00:04   #75
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Originally Posted by hmmm View Post
The French wealth tax which is similar raises about 2 billion a year. They have a population of 66 million people, so I expect an Irish one to raise 200 million max.

Plus I can't wait to see the outrage when SF asks farmers to sell 1% of their land, as if that was somehow possible.
From memory it excludes agricultural land
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