Galway Harbour Company has banned Motorhome Parking

gozunda · 28-10-2014 3:32pm

Morgan The Moon wrote: »

Reasons why EU, Irish Government and Councils should provide parking and services for Motorhomes, Campervans etc.

As enthusiast we all pay tax.

If you import a MH, you pay VRT, and VAT. Part of any VAT collected is passed on to EU coffers. Were does the VRT go?
Every drop of diesel, you pay tax and VAT.
Every thing you buy to enhance your chosen way of enjoying your pastime / way of life, you pay tax and VAT.

There is a business sector servicing our needs, garages, spares, leisure equipment etc. They all pay tax and VAT.

If it was all quantified it would add up to a fair old some each year.

Does anybody know anything provided for our chosen pastime by The Government or by the EU, in Ireland.

When we are out and about we spend money in local economies, every transaction we pay tax ! The local council charges rates etc to local business. Part of that money is from us.

Local councils, if they provided the facilities would potentially be able to apply for funding from the EU to install the necessary equipment. The Irish Government should part fund the cost. With Tax money they are getting of us.

Eventually they would get there money back !! Why, because part of the cost of using the facilities would be the dreaded TAX !

So know you see were I am coming from, we pay for the things in one way or another. Hence that is why in other EU States they do not ROB you to use the facilities.

We even have to pay Tax to drive on the crap roads.

Morg

I agree with all that you have said above

But - unfortunately these arguments will most likley be ignored by the powers that be because it can be argued that they relate to pretty much every hobby / pastimes for instance vintage car enthusiasts, fly fishing, motorcyclists etc. - all which can be said to contribute to local economies in one way or another.

I am not saying that the government should not up the ante in relation to service provision but this particular argument won't work imo.

Local and central goverment here only start to provide facilities in my experience where they can generate direct revenue or else leave it to the private sector to do so. Neither does there appear to be any legal direction or necessity to provide such services either. Blind it may be but that largely is the situation at present.

Tbh I can see a better prospect in local community groups developing / providing facilities and who wish to inject some life and economic activity into their towns and surrounding areas. Some towns have recently brought together business to encourage local economic activity - I wonder if any of them have even considered the value of encouraging motorhome owners?

Morgan The Moon · 28-10-2014 5:12pm

gozunda wrote: »

I agree with all that you have said above

But - unfortunately these arguments will most likley be ignored by the powers that be because it can be argued that they relate to pretty much every hobby / pastimes for instance vintage car enthusiasts, fly fishing, motorcyclists etc. - all which can be said to contribute to local economies in one way or another.

I am not saying that the government should not up the ante in relation to service provision but this particular argument won't work imo.

Local and central goverment here only start to provide facilities in my experience where they can generate direct revenue or else leave it to the private sector to do so. Neither does there appear to be any legal direction or necessity to provide such services either. Blind it may be but that largely is the situation at present.

Tbh I can see a better prospect in local community groups developing / providing facilities and who wish to inject some life and economic activity into their towns and surrounding areas. Some towns have recently brought together business to encourage local economic activity - I wonder if any of them have even considered the value of encouraging motorhome owners?

I agree with your points, However, how is it other EU States can source and secure funding for "Aire's" "Stelplatz" etc. If the funding is there and in respect of Galway Harbour, as it is a "port" funding is definitely available for uprating it's facility. As a yacht harbour it must have a solution for handling chemical disposal. I am referring directly to toilets etc of visiting yachts. To included catering for motorcaravan enthusiast needs is done in other EU states so why not here. My point is that there are monies available, it is required to be applied for correctly. On the suggestion of adopting an Irish name there are funds available specifically for aspects of tourism promotion in the Irish language. The more angles that are presented may just start the ball rolling. As we are surrounded by water there would be a fair few ports that could apply.

Morg

killalanerr · 28-10-2014 6:21pm

This came up a while back,waterways Ireland do a super job for the boating community with large wads of tax money being spend maintaining inland waterways, It is my dream that we would have a similar state funded body looking after our needs
One can only dream...

niloc1951 · 28-10-2014 8:46pm

More to-day on Galway Bay FM.

Listen HERE at 01:32:35 and 02:01:05

piuswal · 30-10-2014 9:25pm

What MH magazine was referred to in radio broadcast of 28th?

Recent article from Dungarvan attached. Should be legible.

Irishgoatman · 31-10-2014 12:49pm

piuswal wrote: »

What MH magazine was referred to in radio broadcast of 28th?

Recent article from Dungarvan attached. Should be legible.

Interesting article, but with cllr Doocey suggesting that if an area was created then Camping site owners shouldn't have to pay rates I can't see it happening. It's obvious who he represents.

Would I want to pay 10 euro per night just to park?, bearing in mind that I don't use the services mentioned, then the answer is no way. If it was for a maximum of 24 hrs then perhaps.

*Kol* · 31-10-2014 2:50pm

Irishgoatman wrote: »

Interesting article, but with cllr Doocey suggesting that if an area was created then Camping site owners shouldn't have to pay rates I can't see it happening. It's obvious who he represents.

Would I want to pay 10 euro per night just to park?, bearing in mind that I don't use the services mentioned, then the answer is no way. If it was for a maximum of 24 hrs then perhaps.

I agree, the €10 should be for a 24 hour period in rural areas. It's not like you are taking up a prime parking space in the middle of a city.

Morgan The Moon · 31-10-2014 4:45pm

Irishgoatman wrote: »

Interesting article, but with cllr Doocey suggesting that if an area was created then Camping site owners shouldn't have to pay rates I can't see it happening. It's obvious who he represents.

Would I want to pay 10 euro per night just to park?, bearing in mind that I don't use the services mentioned, then the answer is no way. If it was for a maximum of 24 hrs then perhaps.

Your absolutely right. I do not see why he thinks, "Camping site owners shouldn't have to pay rates" ? Why not ? Because the council has recognised that Motorhomes have a right to park!!

That has got nothing to do with camping site owners, they should lobby for an annual tax to be paid on caravans and tents. We all know what they would be told to do if they tried that one.

If the Council put in the required services , the use of the services could be charged for if they felt it was necessary. A parking fee ! If one is necessary it should not penalise a Motorhome user in comparison to other parking facility user's. If they segregate an area of an existing car park facility maybe a small charge might be acceptable. The charge for overnight in many car parks is allot lower than the daytime rates. In segregated car parks 24 hr charge is often applied. Hopefully they will listen when different options are suggested. It is worrying that the start off figure is so high.

If they secure EU funding it should not be chargeable until the period of time has elapsed that is enshrined, into the rules of such funding.

niloc1951 · 31-10-2014 5:46pm

There are many motorhome parking areas which are a segregated off part of a bigger parking area for other vehicles, Flower Planter or Armco barriers are sometime used.

Access to such areas can be restricted and a different pricing for parking applied, usually a rate per 24 hours.

Be prepared to pay up to €12 in high season at a popular high demand tourist/resort location and in fairness for 24 hours that should be acceptable in such circumstances, particularly when such a price often includes an EHU.
However this price usually falls back significantly off season.
Outside high demand areas parking is often free or for a very modest sum all year.

Irishgoatman · 31-10-2014 5:54pm

niloc1951 wrote: »

There are many motorhome parking areas which are a segregated off part of a bigger parking area for other vehicles, Flower Planter or Armco barriers are sometime used.

Access to such areas can be restricted and a different pricing for parking applied, usually a rate per 24 hours.

Be prepared to pay up to €12 in high season at a popular high demand tourist/resort location and in fairness for 24 hours that should be acceptable in such circumstances, particularly when such a price often includes an EHU.
However this price usually falls back significantly off season.
Outside high demand areas parking is often free or for a very modest sum all year.

Are there any of these in Ireland? I haven't seen any.

campingcarist · 31-10-2014 10:23pm

niloc1951 wrote: »

Access to such areas can be restricted and a different pricing for parking applied, usually a rate per 24 hours.

Be prepared to pay up to €12 in high season at a popular high demand tourist/resort location and in fairness for 24 hours that should be acceptable in such circumstances, particularly when such a price often includes an EHU.
However this price usually falls back significantly off season.
Outside high demand areas parking is often free or for a very modest sum all year.

In France, I paid to €14 in a CAMPING site on 4th Sept 2014 - showers, laundry, free wiFi, nice site with grass pitches though not all were flat.

So in the high season, I'm off to France, again.

niloc1951 · 31-10-2014 11:30pm

campingcarist wrote: »

In France, I paid to €14 in a CAMPING site on 4th Sept 2014 - showers, laundry, free wiFi, nice site with grass pitches though not all were flat.

So in the high season, I'm off to France, again.

God Bless ACSI Card, off season Paris Est is €16 all inclusive

Morgan The Moon · 01-11-2014 5:07pm

campingcarist wrote: »

In France, I paid to €14 in a CAMPING site on 4th Sept 2014 - showers, laundry, free wiFi, nice site with grass pitches though not all were flat.

So in the high season, I'm off to France, again.

There are thousands of decent sites at the prices you quote. So as probably you already know, you have choices. Some good and some bad, good ones are passed on by word of mouth, in forums, magazines etc etc.

Bad ones keep catching the unsuspecting people that arrive on spec. Glossy brochures, smart signage and journalistic recommendations can be and often are misleading. So I personally am not that impressed with the modern ability to produce smart glossy advertisement. The use of computerised advertisement is also very very misleading in many instances in my opinion and experience.

As Motorhome enthusiasts we are often forced to use campsites and I agree some are very good with excellent facilities. But some are a disgrace with no thought or provision as to the requirements or needs of Motorhome user's.

Same goes for "Aire's," "Stellplatz" "Sostas" etc. Some not so expensive, some expensive in my view. Some for free. But lots of choice.

But all seem to consider in one way or another what is required for Motorhomes.

Free WiFi ? How can it be free if you have paid a fee to use the facilities ?

Or was there a reduction in the cost if you did not use or require WiFi ?

The same consideration goes for showers, I nearly always use my own shower because some offered facilities are not as good as the one I bought with my Motorhome. Same goes for toilets etc, etc.

Morg

campingcarist · 02-11-2014 3:48pm

Morgan The Moon wrote: »

There are thousands of decent sites at the prices you quote. .....

Free WiFi ? How can it be free if you have paid a fee to use the facilities ?

Or was there a reduction in the cost if you did not use or require WiFi ?

The same consideration goes for showers, I nearly always use my own shower because some offered facilities are not as good as the one I bought with my Motorhome. Same goes for toilets etc, etc.

Morg

The point I wastrying to make was where in Ireland can you get all the facilites for the same price? The Dunmore East site, I think is quoting €28 a night. And the dearest I paid was €18 a night. That was when I didn't use the aires for which I never paid more than €6 a night but most were free, some of the latter with services, some not.

Some places charge extra for a Wifi connection. Some include it in the price calling it free; whether they have added something in to cover the cost of the wifi, I don't know but over a month the cost per person would be minimal.

Morgan The Moon · 02-11-2014 5:25pm

campingcarist wrote: »

The point I wastrying to make was where in Ireland can you get all the facilites for the same price? The Dunmore East site, I think is quoting €28 a night. And the dearest I paid was €18 a night. That was when I didn't use the aires for which I never paid more than €6 a night but most were free, some of the latter with services, some not.

Some places charge extra for a Wifi connection. Some include it in the price calling it free; whether they have added something in to cover the cost of the wifi, I don't know but over a month the cost per person would be minimal.

I agree with all your points.

Interestingly on some occasions I have asked if there is a reduction for not taking WiFi. Some will give a reduction if your lucky. Sites that have electricity included will sometimes give a reduction if you do not need electricity hook up.

The sites that offer "quickstop" have various differences to campsite charges. But your absolutely right that there seems to be better value at Continental sites. Some "City campsites" because of there location are a total rip off.

The "Aire's" "Stellplatz" "Sosta" locations are really the answer to give choice in Ireland similar to the choices offered at Continental sites.

Morg

*Kol* · 02-11-2014 10:04pm

campingcarist wrote: »

The point I wastrying to make was where in Ireland can you get all the facilites for the same price? The Dunmore East site, I think is quoting €28 a night. And the dearest I paid was €18 a night. That was when I didn't use the aires for which I never paid more than €6 a night but most were free, some of the latter with services, some not.

Some places charge extra for a Wifi connection. Some include it in the price calling it free; whether they have added something in to cover the cost of the wifi, I don't know but over a month the cost per person would be minimal.

I see your point the WIFI is free if you don't pay for it on top of the basic price. Unfortunately we are not in France. I wish!!

*Kol* · 02-11-2014 10:26pm

we have two camps here. One that parks and one that camps. No pun intended. For the parkers I am not sure. For the campers. In fairness the difference is a tenner at most. It's hardly worth the effort to be giving about it for the most part. What are are you losing? A tenner? Don't go back if it's that bad. There are plenty of sites in Ireland that will give you your €25 worth. They need to make a living too. Granted there's great value in France but we don't live in France. So the other weekends when you are not in France you might think about how campsites in Ireland need to make a living too. Has anybody on here actually worked out the economics of running a campsite in Ireland? I would love to do it but I don't think there would be any money in it.

niloc1951 · 03-11-2014 12:43am

*Kol* wrote: »

we have two camps here. One that parks and one that camps. No pun intended. For the parkers I am not sure. For the campers. In fairness the difference is a tenner at most. It's hardly worth the effort to be giving about it for the most part. What are are you losing? A tenner? Don't go back if it's that bad. There are plenty of sites in Ireland that will give you your €25 worth. They need to make a living too. Granted there's great value in France but we don't live in France. So the other weekends when you are not in France you might think about how campsites in Ireland need to make a living too. Has anybody on here actually worked out the economics of running a campsite in Ireland? I would love to do it but I don't think there would be any money in it.

Problem is as I see it is that there is little understanding of how the caravan/camping/motor-caravan market is segmented and require different product services. Add to this the huge service and municipal charges levied on not only camp-sites but all businesses in this country it is difficult for any to make a decent profit.
However it is unfortunate that while camp-sites justifiably complain about not getting due recognition for their roll in providing tourism infrastructure in the form of more realistic development charges and municipal rates they somewhat shot themselves in the foot by not passing on the decrease in VAT given to those providing services to tourism back in July 2011, I have found none in their 2012 sites book which show a reduced price against the 2011 price.

When I used a tent I used caravan and camping sites as I also did when I had a caravan and children to be amused. I was glad of the children's play ground, shower blocks, campers kitchens, television rooms and indoor play areas on wet days.

However, I now have a motorhome, no kids, my own shower, kitchen, tv & hifi, and I don't need a children play ground, games room or indoor play area.

Can someone explain why camp-site owners and their lobbyists think I must purchase all those facilities I don't need instead of providing that which I need which is a simple space of about 25sq meters on which to park my motorhome while I enjoy those onboard facilities I paid so much for.
Such a space can be provided by local authorities or private enterprise, it matters not to me. For such a space I am more than willing to pay a price similar to that which prevails elsewhere in Europe, after all we are supposed to be in a single market and not supposed to be paying significantly more than our counterparts elsewhere for goods and services.

Finally, I am not a charitable organisation and I will not pay €30 for a place to park for 24 hours. See an Example Here. The cost of a fortnight is such an establishment would pay for a return ferry to France and a similar time spent on municipal camp-sites and Aires in that country, plus the wine and beer is way cheaper too

Queenie_Jet · 03-11-2014 10:00am

To be fair, I had always thought the price of sites in this country was a little high, until we did the UK in July and we RV'ed in California last month. In the UK we paid up on £30 per night (and £22 was the lowest) and in the US the most expensive RV park was Candlestick park in San Francisco 79usd plus tax per night. Granted, SF is one of the most expensive cities you can visit, the cheapest we paid was 35usd and we made use of free RV parking available in some towns.
All of the sites provided full services inc wifi but the con (particularly in Carmel, CA) is that they are usually way out of town - further than walking distance away.

I know France and Europe are way cheaper and I agree that we need our town councils to wake up and provide RV parking spaces in most towns, we would make use of campsites every 3 nights for facialities when on a long trip (or when we take the pets). There is a time and a place for all of them - but all the alternatives should be provided.

niloc1951 · 03-11-2014 11:13am

Queenie_Jet wrote: »

To be fair, I had always thought the price of sites in this country was a little high, until we did the UK in July and we RV'ed in California last month. In the UK we paid up on £30 per night (and £22 was the lowest) and in the US the most expensive RV park was Candlestick park in San Francisco 79usd plus tax per night. Granted, SF is one of the most expensive cities you can visit, the cheapest we paid was 35usd and we made use of free RV parking available in some towns.
All of the sites provided full services inc wifi but the con (particularly in Carmel, CA) is that they are usually way out of town - further than walking distance away.

I know France and Europe are way cheaper and I agree that we need our town councils to wake up and provide RV parking spaces in most towns, we would make use of campsites every 3 nights for facialities when on a long trip (or when we take the pets). There is a time and a place for all of them - but all the alternatives should be provided.

In the UK and NI there are CL's and CS's, there are specially certified camping locations on private land with a maximum permitted number of 5 pitches and free of the regulations relevant to formal caravan and camping parks.

To use these sites you need to be a member of either The Caravan Club or The Caravan and Camping Club and the usually cost less than £10 per night including EHU and dump/water facilities

zambo · 03-11-2014 12:32pm

As I see it this is all about choice.If anyone wants to use a campsite that is their choice and they should make it based on what they want and its price.
If on the other hand the owner of a motorhome wants to stop overnight in a legal parking area that is also a perfectly valid choice.
Whichever option is chosen should never be decided because a campsite or other interest has a local councellor in their corner or in their pocket.For too long in Ireland we have had the situation where certain interests have abused power in their own interest and the main aim has been to monetise everything owned and used by the public for their own benifit.
Let each business atract customers by supplying what people want and not by preventing us using the facilities we already own.
Apart from the Irish peoples right to enjoy our own countryside we need tourism and it is in no ones interest that hotels,campsites or other interest group should make any section feel unwelcome.
yours zambo.

niloc1951 · 04-11-2014 10:55am

The Galway pot has now started to simmer in the UK, see THIS ARTICLE on 'The UK’s Number One Website for Motorhomers, Caravanners and Campers'

piuswal · 05-11-2014 5:23pm

Any chance the Local Media might pick up on the MMM article, Galway and Dungarvan?

Or might Galway's action embolden Dungarvan Councillors?

Any idea when the Dungarvan November meeting is?

niloc1951 · 05-11-2014 6:52pm

niloc1951 wrote: »

I believe that Cllr Geoghegan, who is the Chair of the council area in question has facilitated a meeting with representatives of The Phoenix Motorhome Club at the councils November meeting.
I also believe that The Phoenix Motorhome Club will be giving a presentation to the meeting on the benefits of providing official regulated parking for motorhomes and the economic benefits which can flow from such a venture.

November meeting is on Monday 10th.

Field east · 06-11-2014 10:30am

Have read with great interest the Galway parking issue. Would the energy/time spent on the issue be more productively spent on presenting it as a national issue so that we end up with at least every city and large town (eg 6000 +) for starters having the 'AIRE' type facilities as in France. Otherwise we will be going from town to town, no standards in place.

Morg hit the nail on the head by referring to the spend by us all on petrol ,maintenance, insurance, restaurants, capital purchases, etc. Taking this argument further , the receivers of this income spent it and this in turn is spent by those and so on . This happens all over the country and goes all over the shop. A Kerry MH owner, for eg , may buy her/his insurance from a Dublin based firm and fuel all over the country as they travel around. So the MH sector is helping to support other sectors, is helping to support jobs and is contributing to increasing national spend and increasing tax intake at national level. In theory, it is possible that not a cent is spent by MH owners in Galway and yet Galway could end up getting a lot of our spend . Eg I am sure that some of the owners, employees of the various facilities , services and suppliers that MH owners use holiday in Galway and probably get their supplies there, etc. so as they say 'what comes around , goes around.'

All of the above should be of great interest to the Gov and to the locations that have MH potential . If there is a national strategy to have the AIRE type facilities at key locations throughout the country , then Failte Ireland can very positively market The island as a place which welcomes MHs'. - come and see our facilities and prices!!
The national exchange coffers can be enhanced be an increasing no of foreign owners coming, current owners spending more time in Irl and less overseas and maybe individuals buying a MH because of the , hopefully, positive content of the Failte Ireland promotion of the sector
.
I would be very hopeful that if there was a case made for a national strategy and how it might be supported by grant assistance , that it would get the ear of the Min for Tourism .The strategy might include details of the current situation and financial projections of the contribution to the national economy of the proposed strategy . For a small national investment there could be a very sign return.
I have not researched what supports are out there or what Failte Ireland support was or has been, but I have always felt that it was always treated as if it was not of any significance. Board Failte traditionally concentrated on servicing high spent tourists. Is it not possible that the children of a foreign family MHing in Ireland might return to Irl as adults because of a happy MH experience.

Re Signage:-
The drawing of the shape of a MH on the sign is internationally recognised and therefor has to be part of the sign. What about Our smiling icon on it or a 'tick' (as in something being correct ) on it also would give a definite 'Yes, you are very welcome here'
The signage for where MH are not allowed could be the drawing only with a big X through it.
The word 'Failte' is a good idea. It's Irish, easy to say-hopefully by all nationalities- and means 'Welcome'. The foreign tourist will make what it means when they come across the one with the big X

Am taking the week off now so that I will be able to meet the backlash when I return!

niloc1951 · 06-11-2014 12:03pm

The latest from Galway http://connachttribune.ie/end-of-the-road-for-motorhome-holidaymakers-844/ is very interesting.

As I read it it seems to carry two main points attributed to The Galway City Council.

Motorhome based tourists are required to patronise a campsite if they wish to stay in Galway overnight, irrespective of whether they need campsite facilities or not.
And.
Any mention of 'parking' at the dock area is studiously avoided in favour of creating an impression that the area had become an unofficial camp-site.

Given the circumstances concerning the provision of services and the lack of planning permission thereof, should not the appropriate action be to require the suspension of those services and not interfere with the provision of parking for which planning permission clearly exists.

As Marcellus said in Hamlet there is something rotten in the State of Denmark or should the be the City of Galway

piuswal · 06-11-2014 12:04pm

I tend to agree with the need for an overall approach but I would await the outcome of the Dungarvan meeting and decision.

It looks like there could be a positive outcome and if so, coupled with the Cobh and Middleton positions there would be the possible template for the overall case.

Signage;

Use the international sign with Failte or STAD.

Irishgoatman · 06-11-2014 12:39pm

Re the piece in the Tribune, there is no mention of the council banning parking of MH's only the power points being erected without planning permission. It also states that they were originally erected for the use of boat owners which is clearly not true as any cables from boats would have to go across the footpath!. That would be the danger to the public, as mentioned to a previous poster by the Harbour Co. not the parking of MH's.

Either the council are trying to pass the buck or the Harbour Company got it wrong. The reporter got no answer from the company? makes me slightly suspicious.

*Kol* · 06-11-2014 1:06pm

I would agree that the harbour company seem to have gotten it wrong in that they were trying to facilitate the MH parking but didn't get the right permissions. Those electrical points certainly look like they are in the wrong place if they are supposed to be for the boats.

I too would be suspicious that there was an external influence on the council to have them investigating the erection of the power points. The unfortunate thing is that the relatively small revenue earned from the spaces by the harbour company may not encourage them to pursue proper permission to get the spaces back into use. It could be more hassle than its worth.

niloc1951 · 06-11-2014 3:28pm

To clarify:
My understanding from reliable sources is that
The Galway City Council instigated the ban on the basis that there was no planning permission for parking motorhomes notwithstanding the fact that the planning permission does not specify any category of vehicle which may or may not park there.
Galway City Council also had 'problems' with the fact that motorhomes would not fit within the parking bays notwithstanding the fact that many many motorhomes would fit within the marked bays.
The Galway City Council required that The Galway Harbour Company erect the sign attached.
In the recent Galway Tribune article The Galway City Council have set out their stall on how they see motorhome based tourists are to be treated or more correctly mistreated within Galway City.

Galway Harbour Company has banned Motorhome Parking

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