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Baptism records - more detail ?

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  • 24-01-2012 11:32am
    #1
    zagmund
    Registered Users Posts: 2,501 ✭✭✭


    I took some time off yesterday and went to the National Library to see what sources and other information I could find for one of my relatives. I talked to the people in the genealogy service and they pointed me at the microfilm church records.

    I knew the parish and the year, so it was relatively easy to find the record after a few minutes of scrunching up my eyes and staring at the screen. See the attached image for the record. Result.

    For practice, I went into rootsireland.ie and entered in the details and as expected there was only a single record returned for Richard Ryan, baptised in 1847 in Ardagh in Limerick - http://limerick.rootsireland.ie/view_detail.php?recordid=1422756&type=bch&recordCentre=limerick

    So, my question is - given that the image from the microfilms is the original record of the baptism, is there any other source anywhere that is likely to provide more information ? I mean, is the microfilm record a summary of the baptism details and the church might have a seperate more detailed record (like including parents address, etc . . .) or is the microfilm record as detailed a record as ever existed ?

    As I understand it, the microfilm shows the parish record and not the actual church record. Obviously there would have been multiple churches in the parish at the time.

    I appreciate that this is 1847 and there may not be anything else surviving, but I'm just trying to get some tips on digging deeper.

    Thanks,

    z


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    #2
    zagmund
    Registered Users Posts: 2,501 ✭✭✭zagmund


    By the way, can anyone decode the bottom line any better than me -

    01 <something> baptism Richardum ex Joannis (John) Ryan et Joannis
    (Johanna ?) Cuper <something> Daniel et Catherenium Riordan (witnesses)

    The mothers surname looks a little odd. I'm reasonably sure of the "'C' and the 'p', but the others I'm not so sure of. Could it be a mis-spelling of "Cooper" ? Doesn't sound like a very Limerick name to me.

    z


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    #3
    dido2
    Registered Users Posts: 447 ✭✭dido2


    You could try emailing the churches in the parish to see if they can check for records, I've emailed a few churches and they've been more than helpful


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    #4
    shanew
    Registered Users Posts: 2,777 ✭✭✭shanew


    zagmund wrote: »
    ....
    So, my question is - given that the image from the microfilms is the original record of the baptism, is there any other source anywhere that is likely to provide more information ? I mean, is the microfilm record a summary of the baptism details and the church might have a seperate more detailed record (like including parents address, etc . . .) or is the microfilm record as detailed a record as ever existed ?

    As I understand it, the microfilm shows the parish record and not the actual church record. Obviously there would have been multiple churches in the parish at the time.
    ...

    As far as I understand it the register is the primary record - so that's all there is.

    Early records generally include less detail - i.e. very basic 'address', or none at all

    Church records were kept by the parish church, so the register could include records of baptisms for chapels of ease within the parish (if there were any).


    Shane


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    #5
    pedroeibar1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,108 ✭✭✭pedroeibar1


    zagmund wrote: »
    By the way, can anyone decode the bottom line any better than me -

    01 <something> baptism Richardum ex Joannis (John) Ryan et Joannis
    (Johanna ?) Cuper <something> Daniel et Catherenium Riordan (witnesses)

    The mothers surname looks a little odd. I'm reasonably sure of the "'C' and the 'p', but the others I'm not so sure of. Could it be a mis-spelling of "Cooper" ? Doesn't sound like a very Limerick name to me.

    z

    My stab at it is ‘Item – baptism of Richard, son of (ex- literally 'out of') John Ryan and Johanna Cutsen ; I’d guess Daniel and Catherine Riordan are the godparents. The clerk seems not to cross his ‘t’ s. I wonder could Johanna’s maiden name be Cussen (sometimes spelled Cushion) which would be a South Tipp name? However, Cooper is common in Kerry which in not that far away. Have you tried variants in Griffiths or the 1901 census for the same area?

    P.


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    #6
    CeannRua
    Closed Accounts Posts: 470 ✭✭CeannRua


    I think at the beginning it might say 'Ptem' = Pro Tem. The character in the middle of the mother's maiden name is a double 's' so Cussen.


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    #7
    zagmund
    Registered Users Posts: 2,501 ✭✭✭zagmund


    Thanks for all the replies.

    Regarding the mothers surname - I thought it was 'p' in the middle as it looks pretty like the 'p' in 'bapt' although now that I look at it, it is bigger and more angled than the other 'p's.

    I'm curious - is this a normal way of writing 'ss' ?

    I haven't got as far as Griffiths yet but will look to see what I can find.

    z


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    #8
    pedroeibar1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,108 ✭✭✭pedroeibar1


    zagmund wrote: »
    Thanks for all the replies.

    Regarding the mothers surname - I thought it was 'p' in the middle as it looks pretty like the 'p' in 'bapt' although now that I look at it, it is bigger and more angled than the other 'p's.

    I'm curious - is this a normal way of writing 'ss' ?

    I haven't got as far as Griffiths yet but will look to see what I can find.

    z

    For another 'P' the letters before the Riordan's I think are Spo for Sponsores = godparents.
    I'm steeling myself for some more parish record searching, it's not easy!
    Rs,
    P.


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    #9
    CeannRua
    Closed Accounts Posts: 470 ✭✭CeannRua


    There are a couple of different ways of writing 'ss.' For example like the one you posted see the name Jessie in this link. It's a good way down the page in the centre: http://ancestryuk.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/ancestryuk.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=4364.

    'ss' often looks like 'fs' as well because of the 'long s' letter form. For this see 'April Session' near top of link.


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    #10
    Kalishoek
    Registered Users Posts: 41 ✭Kalishoek


    I think the mothers name is Cupen, dont forget the German Palatines who settled in and around Limerick at the beginning of the 18th century , there were Cupen in county Laois too,but later.


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    #11
    genealogist
    Registered Users Posts: 17 ✭genealogist


    In that parish you could look to see in the Griffiths valuation and the earlier Tithes applotment to see where those two surnames appear in the townlands of the parish.

    You might get a better reading of the mothers surname in the griffiths if she has relatives still in the parish.


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