Under 35s, are you taking out Health Insurance?

Hulk Hands · 22-04-2015 4:58pm

Zzippy wrote: »

You do realise a lot of those older people were young once (all of them actually), and that many of them have paid for health insurance since they were younger? We don't charge older people higher tax and PRSI because they require more resources in the public health system. Pensions cost more the later you start paying into them - why should private healthcare be different. Incentivising starting young is a good way of ensuring a properly functioning healthcare insurance market.

And if you consider HI a rip off, ask yourself why... for a start look at the ridiculous prices charged by the HSE to insurance companies for beds, even if only used for a few hours.

I consider all insurance to be a rip off. In a basic sense its like the lotto, loads of people pay in, a percentage gets skimmed off the top, and the rest divided out between a few. In nearly all insurance the premiums you pay dont correlate well with the likelihood of you claiming, i.e the premiums are more than the actually should be, where insurance companies make their profit. Thus I dont use insurance if I can get away with it. (Have to pay the car, and work covers the health).

In the case of Health Insurance, I'm getting extra ripped off as im quite unlikely to claim this year, compared to say my parents. Yet our premiums arent too dissimilar. On top of losing a percentage to the insurance company, im losing a huge percentage to other policy holders. The point about the cost of beds are irrelevant. Insurance companies are just relaying this cost to the consumer through premiums. If beds were cheaper, they'd charge less. They'd still take the same amount off the top though to maintain their margin. And i'd still be getting much less value from my policy than older people.

With your first point, are you not agreeing with me? I'd fully support a health insurance policy that started off with small premiums when young, making it cheaper when you are older. The problem is that people of say 50-70, may join Aviva this year and be in the same pool as me, and they are not paying anywhere near enough in premiums compared to the risk they pose. Their premiums should be multiple times that of a 25 year old, yet they wont be. It leads to the 25 year olds premium being overpriced to make up the difference

Zzippy · 22-04-2015 7:08pm

Hulk Hands wrote: »

I consider all insurance to be a rip off. In a basic sense its like the lotto, loads of people pay in, a percentage gets skimmed off the top, and the rest divided out between a few. In nearly all insurance the premiums you pay dont correlate well with the likelihood of you claiming, i.e the premiums are more than the actually should be, where insurance companies make their profit. Thus I dont use insurance if I can get away with it. (Have to pay the car, and work covers the health).

In the case of Health Insurance, I'm getting extra ripped off as im quite unlikely to claim this year, compared to say my parents. Yet our premiums arent too dissimilar. On top of losing a percentage to the insurance company, im losing a huge percentage to other policy holders. The point about the cost of beds are irrelevant. Insurance companies are just relaying this cost to the consumer through premiums. If beds were cheaper, they'd charge less. They'd still take the same amount off the top though to maintain their margin. And i'd still be getting much less value from my policy than older people.

With your first point, are you not agreeing with me? I'd fully support a health insurance policy that started off with small premiums when young, making it cheaper when you are older. The problem is that people of say 50-70, may join Aviva this year and be in the same pool as me, and they are not paying anywhere near enough in premiums compared to the risk they pose. Their premiums should be multiple times that of a 25 year old, yet they wont be. It leads to the 25 year olds premium being overpriced to make up the difference

I'm not sure you really get the point of insurance. It's there as a failsafe for when something does go wrong, not for you to get value from it on an ongoing basis.
As for your main point, the whole point of LCR is to change that system so that older people joining will pay more than you do. Charging older people multiples of what you pay would result in people only being able to afford health insurance in their younger years, and having to give it up when they are most likely to need it. While that might suit the insurance companies bottom line, it's not something desirable in a modern society, and maybe something you'll appreciate as you get older yourself. Of course you pay more now as a 25 year old than your risk profile would indicate - the system is predicated on you paying similar premia all your life and your risk over your whole lifetime balances this out. The alternative is unworkable - paying increasing amounts as you age until you reach a point where you can't afford it!

Geuze · 23-04-2015 11:11pm

Cody Howling Candlestick wrote: »

And lots of people in UK pay for health insurance and go to private dentists, certainly a lot of the people I know anyway. The NHS is no holy grail, people in the UK complain about it just as much as we complain about our health system here.

I think 10% of pop in UK have insurance, vs 40% here?

seventeen sheep · 24-04-2015 12:52pm

I have health insurance through work. It gives me a lot of peace of mind. If I'm hmming and hawwing over whether my baby really needs to go to the doctor with a temperature/rash/virus etc, it's good to know it'll only cost me €15 rather than €55. I get a lot back on consultant appointments too. Actually, with all the GP and consultant appointments and other medical issues myself and my son have had in the past year or so, it's well worth the BIK I pay on it.

I have a friend in the unfortunate position where she doesn't have health insurance, and her toddler needs a procedure done on his ears with a waiting list of 6+ months on the public system. It'll cost her around €900 that she doesn't have to get it done privately sooner than that. His speech development has been and will continue to be negatively affected until the procedure is done.

I think, even if I couldn't have health insurance for myself, it would be a priority for my children. It shouldn't be the case; our taxes should cover this sort of stuff, but sadly that isn't the reality.

Lia_lia wrote: »

My employer pays for it. Also dental insurance. Don't think I would pay for it myself, however!

You would be paying BIK on both though - depending on your tax band, could be quite a bit!

AudreyHepburn · 24-04-2015 2:56pm

I've had it since I was born with the VHI....first on my parents policy and now on my own.

Ok it costs a hell of a lot but it's a fool's game not to have it.

jimgoose · 24-04-2015 3:02pm

Have it for years, through work but were that not the case I'd buy it.

Galwayguy35 · 24-04-2015 6:13pm

What jobs have ye that the employer pays for the workers private health insurance?

jimgoose · 24-04-2015 10:36pm

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

What jobs have ye that the employer pays for the workers private health insurance?

It's quite common with the larger Yank outfits.

moc moc a moc · 24-04-2015 11:13pm

Anybody over 30 or so who doesn't have health insurance has no common sense and/or hasn't had to endure our country's fabulous public healthcare system.

whatdoicare · 24-04-2015 11:22pm

moc moc a moc wrote: »

Anybody over 30 or so who doesn't have health insurance has no common sense and/or hasn't had to endure our country's fabulous public healthcare system.

Or hasn't the money to pay for it.

johnny osbourne · 24-04-2015 11:30pm

GOT A QUOTE FROM aVIVA TODAY AT 3K PER MONTH, ON A/C of the fact that i had an accident last year where i inhaled loads of glass powder, biased much???

edited to add, in fairness she said i was almost inquotable

mickdw · 25-04-2015 7:41am

I don't think it works like that.
Any treatment relating to that would be excluded for 5 years but I would have thought that your quote would be same as everyone else

Cushie Butterfield · 25-04-2015 8:08am

johnny osbourne wrote: »

GOT A QUOTE FROM aVIVA TODAY AT 3K PER MONTH, ON A/C of the fact that i had an accident last year where i inhaled loads of glass powder, biased much???

edited to add, in fairness she said i was almost inquotable

That seems very strange, as usually someone can take out a policy without being asked about existing conditions - the only mention is normally that pre-existing conditions aren't covered for 5 years or whatever, but the premiums would be the same as anyone else, injuries or accidents usually covered immediately & newly diagnosed illnesses covered after waiting period of a given number of weeks after policy taken out.

Or were you looking for immediate cover for your existing condition?

To Elland Back · 25-04-2015 8:27am

johnny osbourne wrote: »

GOT A QUOTE FROM aVIVA TODAY AT 3K PER MONTH, ON A/C of the fact that i had an accident last year where i inhaled loads of glass powder, biased much???

edited to add, in fairness she said i was almost inquotable

Sounds like Permanent Health Insurance, which is a totally different thing

Rachiee · 25-04-2015 8:34am

I genuinely don't see the point the max a hospital visit can cost is 800 Euro ( so what 7 months premiums) and you get a refund of 20 per cent on that. If it's q skipping you want you can get a loan and go private for the single procedure/diagnosis/consult still cheaper in the long run, you'd be better off having a rainy day saving account I if anything, you'll never even break even with the premiums charged unless you get something massive and chronic

OldMrBrennan83 · 25-04-2015 8:37am

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al22 · 25-04-2015 8:47am

My own experience - paid VHI nearly 20 years and been healthy, total paid about 15,000+ euro for nothing (?)

Then get seriously ill and VHI paid some over 100,000 for my treatment. Healthy again. Will not say it was a waste of my money.
Pay and be healthy is better than be ill and have no money for doctors, tests diagnostics etc.

FREE MRI SCAN - children waiting for 14 months if one have money or VHI pay for that, in my case it was 4 hours waiting for the MRI scan in expensive private hospital. Allso met - a young lad with a few children in a public hospital - without insurance must to pay about 800 euro anyway when discharged. He is working but 800 turo is a lot for him too.

Choise is yours - I ish everybody stay healthy, but when ill what you will prefer? Medical help and treatment without delay, or money saved?

mickdw · 25-04-2015 8:48am

That theory does not reflect the real world situation
Most people won't be able to afford to pay for private treatment. If would prove difficult for most to borrow for such treatment also.
Fair enough, for public hospital, the fees are low but if you found yourself needing operation after operation for something that would put you on the public waiting lists, you would need to be a multi millionaire to find it yourself privately.

Beersmith · 25-04-2015 9:06am

Rachiee wrote: »

I genuinely don't see the point the max a hospital visit can cost is 800 Euro ( so what 7 months premiums) and you get a refund of 20 per cent on that. If it's q skipping you want you can get a loan and go private for the single procedure/diagnosis/consult still cheaper in the long run, you'd be better off having a rainy day saving account I if anything, you'll never even break even with the premiums charged unless you get something massive and chronic

Exactly, save the money and earn the interest on it, not give it over to the middle man. If everyone gave up their health insurance there would be no Q skipping and everyone would be seen much earlier for appointments but that system would be too fair!

Shenshen · 25-04-2015 10:39am

veryangryman wrote: »

Probably more for the TTTAY thread but i always scream "wankkr" in my head when i hear this. This sentence only is uttered from people who have VHI. Is it like they train you all "Garda college style" like to say it? IOU all one personality.

Anyways, while i feel a ban is imminent, that needed to be said.

Aaaah

Not sure I understood a word of that, sorry?

Anyway, I'm currently with Laya. But as I'm from Germany originally, I've always had to have insurance, by law. I had a look at the health system here when I moved over and went straight on to purchase private insurance. Seemed like a very good idea, and for a very reasonable price, too.

van_beano · 25-04-2015 11:30am

Technically speaking, can someone just take out a crappy €360 policy for one year, cancel it next year and not have to worry about future loadings on health insurance policies when they're in their 50's? Or have I missed out on something?

machiavellianme · 25-04-2015 11:33am

van_beano wrote: »

Technically speaking, can someone just take out a crappy €360 policy for one year, cancel it next year and not have to worry about future loadings on health insurance policies when they're in their 50's? Or have I missed out on something?

Nope, it's a new drive to force you to keep what is becoming involuntary health insurance

van_beano · 25-04-2015 11:42am

machiavellianme wrote: »

Nope, it's a new drive to force you to keep what is becoming involuntary health insurance

Thanks, was thinking it would be too simplistic to beat the loadings if that was the case. Health Insurance companies are obviously rubbing their hands in anticipation of bumper years ahead.

daUbiq · 25-04-2015 12:00pm

Larbre34 wrote: »

My brother-in-law in suburban Florida pays $15,300 per year for his family's health insurance (Currently €14,570)

Trust me, it is still cheap in Ireland.

everything costs more in the land of war and profit... who cares about what they pay in that **** hole.

daUbiq · 25-04-2015 12:02pm

van_beano wrote: »

Thanks, was thinking it would be too simplistic to beat the loadings if that was the case. Health Insurance companies are obviously rubbing their hands in anticipation of bumper years ahead.

It's to be expected. Fianna Gael want us to pay tax and also pay for everything. The sooner we're rid of them the better.

UCDVet · 25-04-2015 12:14pm

Beersmith wrote: »

Exactly, save the money and earn the interest on it, not give it over to the middle man. If everyone gave up their health insurance there would be no Q skipping and everyone would be seen much earlier for appointments but that system would be too fair!

'Everyone' wouldn't be seen earlier. People without insurance would be seen earlier. People currently with insurance would be seen later. That's pretty much the only justification for paying for insurance.

JJJJNR · 25-04-2015 12:16pm

I was wondering why Denis O'Brien bought the beacon hospital, makes sense now. crafty.

Sam Kade · 25-04-2015 12:35pm

Larbre34 wrote: »

My brother-in-law in suburban Florida pays $15,300 per year for his family's health insurance (Currently €14,570)

Trust me, it is still cheap in Ireland.

So tell us more how many in the family what cover do they have? Who cares what they pay?

desertcircus · 25-04-2015 12:51pm

I used to have it; the monthly payments went up every year, even as I made zero claims. It got incredibly frustrating to find out each year that I was going to be charged more for the same cover despite the fact that I hadn't claimed on a single occasion. I'll probably sign up for it when I hit 35 in order to avoid being hit later in life for the overloading, but it sticks in my craw that private health insurance could ever be considered a necessity in a developed society. It's beyond ludicrous that we don't have a properly functioning public health system.

UCDVet · 25-04-2015 1:18pm

daUbiq wrote: »

everything costs more in the land of war and profit... who cares about what they pay in that **** hole.

I dunno - it's pretty hard to beat our 51% income tax bracket and 23% VAT.

Unemployed/Lower paid workers will be able to afford a higher standard of living in Ireland.
Higher paid workers/independently wealthy will be able to afford a higher standard of living in the US.

I swindled the NSA · 25-04-2015 1:22pm

I love the complacency of the "Im young and healthy I don't need health insurance" brigade.

Makes about as much sense as saying:
"Im a safe driver -I don't need car insurance" or "I live in the nice part of town -I don't need house insurance"

25-04-2015 1:41pm

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

What jobs have ye that the employer pays for the workers private health insurance?

You would be surprised how good the benefits are from some large multinationals.

I have friends working for one in particular, not entry level obviously, but they receive a car allowance or a company car and a fuel card to use as much as they want. They do absolutely no work miles so the fuel card is for using for their own private use and is given to them as such same with the cars or car allowance purely for their own private use. They also get health insurance along with other benefits and are paid very well on top of it.

OldMrBrennan83 · 25-04-2015 2:08pm

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Autosport · 25-04-2015 2:10pm

What are the penalties if you don't take it out??

daUbiq · 25-04-2015 2:47pm

This is a swindle of the highest order, an alarming link between corporations and government has appeared under the Fianna Gael adminstration. Shouldn't the government fix the health service instead? They're more interested in helping big business than the citizens of Ireland; many of whom struggle to make ends meet and now they're practically forcing us to buy health insurance.

What is the tax we pay actually used for? Besides public service pensions?

Lia_lia · 25-04-2015 3:44pm

seventeen sheep wrote: »

You would be paying BIK on both though - depending on your tax band, could be quite a bit!

This is true! Quite a large chunk of actually. You get some back, but only a few hundred as far as I remember. I do think of cancelling it the odd time, we get free short doctors visits at work anyway, and that's the only time I see a doctor (to get a prescription!). But I suppose it's good to have that extra peace of mind. I never had health insurance in this country growing up and got on fine.

OldMrBrennan83 · 25-04-2015 3:48pm

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moc moc a moc · 26-04-2015 3:30pm

Autosport wrote: »

What are the penalties if you don't take it out??

AIDS

26-04-2015 3:52pm

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

You just pay tax on the benefit so it's basically going to be half the price you would pay for the same plan yourself, which is a fair difference. It's most likely discounted also compared to the price you would get ringing up yourself.

purplecow1977 · 03-01-2016 12:27am

Did anyone take health insurance out recently? What should you ensure is accounted for in the plan? What is the average yearly cost?

coffeepls · 04-01-2016 5:39am

purplecow1977 wrote: »

Did anyone take health insurance out recently? What should you ensure is accounted for in the plan? What is the average yearly cost?

It's a confusing thing to know what's best, so I'll just give you a basic outline of my renewal.
I renewed mine recently - it's about €1200 for the year. That said, you could go cheaper than that, and obviously a lot dearer. Around the €1000 mark is fairly standard.

There's things that I didn't want covered in my policy like GP visits and dentist visits, plus there isn't heart disease in my family so I don't want to pay extra to have 100% cover in a private hospital for open heart surgery - I also don't want to pay extra to have a private room in a hospital. Basically my health insurance is all to do with hospital cover, consultants, scans - all hospital related stuff.

TG1 · 04-01-2016 8:42am

I've had it for years, mostly to keep my dad happy as its something he likes to go on about, but last year my sister (under 35) suddenly became very ill, requiring multiple tests and scans and a stay in a private hospital. This was covered by her insurance.

I (again, under 35 and healthy) then had a trip to a&e and a two week hospital stay which would have cost me €750 on the public system, and cost the insurance company €14000. This will also require follow up appointments and more costs which will be covered. I also availed of a swift care clinic and my insurance covered about half the cost of that at about €150. I required an x-Ray and a cast during that trip and this was done in an hour.

So on my €1000 policy I saved €900 and at least a full day. My sister saved a fortune on her similar policy.

We are both under 35 and healthy neither of us were expecting what happened us. Last year was a lesson to me on the importance of insurance and I will not go without it now!

04-01-2016 8:55am

I have a medical card, but I took out the most basic health insurance plan at 40 euro a month before I turn 35 shortly. It doesn't cover anything my medical card doesn't, but at least now when I'm in a position to pay for full cover, I won't be penalised for being over 35. I get the impression that was the point of this basic plan.

OldMrBrennan83 · 04-01-2016 9:03am

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Dunny · 04-01-2016 9:08am

Medical Card, bitchez!

SATSUMA · 04-01-2016 9:22am

I don't have it never had a problem with the public system. If I need a consultant I pay privately (€115-180). If I need a scan I go to euro medic. ... 20% tax back can be claimed.... If it's not urgent I go on the waiting list.... or I go private until the public appointment comes... All works for me. The few hundred I pay is worth it to pay as I need it!

al22 · 04-01-2016 9:25am

Insurance like VHI provide money to pay for your hospital expences only
and really do not care about the quality of medical services.

When tried to complain, got an answer - it is a matter between you and a hospital. You can go to your solicitor and to courts if not happy with a hospital services... That is it.

Doctors are good and very good usually nurses too. Management is not fit to manage properly, My own opinion being a few times in a public hospital.

I think St Jame's not very fit to treat patients. Their so called Transition Unit is a joke - no radiators at all. And yhere is obody to complain if you wish. Broken toilets and taps for days, conditioning is a joke too - very cold rooms usually - and nobody cares. Patients must to sleep in ther winter clothes shivering.

Health insurer do not care anything but money.

Wanderer78 · 04-01-2016 10:21am

Private health insurance, what a scam!

MrMorooka · 04-01-2016 6:58pm

I get worried that I don't have any, but I don't think I could afford it without moving to somewhere with lower rent or moving job/making more money.

purplecow1977 · 04-01-2016 7:24pm

Thanks all for the replies. I gave it some consideration back in April when the new rule about over 35s came in, but I had gone off the idea then. I hate paying for things 'I may not need' yet I'd always get travel/car insurance etc so what's different about health insurance? It's probably more important than either of those 2 things! I'm relatively healthy, no underlying issues etc but I guess you never know. I had a look at a health insurance comparison site but there didn't seem to be a great difference between some of the lower <€600 plans. Will I need to be paying more than this in order to get anything 'decent'?

Also, is there a clause where you have to be paying for a certain length of time before you claim?

Thanks for the information so far, it's a start!

Under 35s, are you taking out Health Insurance?

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