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Advice re fire regs for a mezzanine "bedroom"

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  • 13-02-2020 6:30pm
    #1
    lucowell
    Registered Users Posts: 19 ✭


    Evening all, was looking for a bit of advice regarding the renovation of a cottage I am planning to undertake. Have spoken to a number of architects/QS/builder/structural engineer and have gotten conflicting information from them all. "oh yeah thats no problem" to "oh thats a big problem" etc

    Basically we want to renovate over 2 stages, this is due to our finances. The first to renovate the existing cottage to create our living space and the second to construct a new bedroom wing. Structural engineer says we need a new roof and in doing so gives the opportunity to demolish internal walls and have a vaulted open ceiling.

    I have attached a plan drawing I put together myself showing the current layout and the proposed layout. Stage one would create an open plan kitchen/dining/living, WC, utilities and a mezzanine overlooking the open plan. Technically we want this mezzanine to act as an unofficial "bedroom" for perhaps 5-10 years until we are ready to commense stage two.

    Could anyone advise of issues we face with this plan? I know fire regs for certain due to no firewall between the proposed stairs and kitchen. Could this be offset by having a fire escape window in the mezzanine?

    Also as stage one would leave the house without an official bedroom, could we be breaking any rules/regs?

    Many thanks in advanced, all opinions welcome.
    Tagged:


Comments

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    #2
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,438 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Have a look at TGD Part B. There’s a section on mezzanine within a house.


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    #3
    BryanF
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 10,140 Mod ✭✭✭✭BryanF


    How far is end of stairs from kitchen and how far from external door.


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    #4
    lucowell
    Registered Users Posts: 19 ✭lucowell


    kceire wrote: »
    Have a look at TGD Part B. There’s a section on mezzanine within a house.

    Many thanks for that kceire. Would you by any chance know if there is a minimum requirement of bedrooms required under the regs? Realistically could we get away with no official bedroom under phase one of our plans? Thanks again.


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    #5
    lucowell
    Registered Users Posts: 19 ✭lucowell


    BryanF wrote: »
    How far is end of stairs from kitchen and how far from external door.

    Hi BryanF, from my own plans the bottom of stairs to kitchen will be 2m, and to an external door will be 2m


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    #6
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,438 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    lucowell wrote: »
    Many thanks for that kceire. Would you by any chance know if there is a minimum requirement of bedrooms required under the regs? Realistically could we get away with no official bedroom under phase one of our plans? Thanks again.

    You need a bedroom for living standards.
    lucowell wrote: »
    Hi BryanF, from my own plans the bottom of stairs to kitchen will be 2m, and to an external door will be 2m

    You might be in breach of fire regs and means of escape.

    Have you got any professional oversight planned?
    Architect, engineer or surveyor?


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    #7
    lucowell
    Registered Users Posts: 19 ✭lucowell


    kceire wrote: »
    You need a bedroom for living standards.



    You might be in breach of fire regs and means of escape.

    Have you got any professional oversight planned?
    Architect, engineer or surveyor?

    Yes we are open to having professional oversight, finding suitable professionals seems to be proving problematic. As the job will cost approx 100k it doesn't seem lucrative enough for them to take on at present.

    We've a builder lined up (family friend), he recommended a structural engineer, the engineers answer to everything so far is "ah sure if you're willing to throw enough money into it then anything can be done". This doesn't sit well with me because a) I'm not paying for someone else's mistakes and b) I'm not putting my life in danger regarding fire protection, especially when I myself am deaf.

    To give you a better idea of the engineer, he recommends we install a septic tank without planning as "sure who will know about it?". I don't want to potentially contaminate our own drinking water and when we proceed to stage 2 (aforementioned bedroom wing) we will need planning permission, the illegally installed septic tank will become an issue then.

    We almost feel we're stuck with this fella because we can't seem to get another engineer or an architect on board. Thanks for the advice so far, greatly appreciated.


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    #8
    FishOnABike
    Registered Users Posts: 4,354 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    Try asking the engineer for that in writing and let them know you'll be taking it up with their professional indemnity insurance if there's any problems and you'll soon see how little they would be willing to commit to.

    Hard as it might be to find another engineer I'd steer well clear of any cowboy who tells you to ignore regulations. It could be an expensive lesson otherwise.


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    #9
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,438 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    lucowell wrote: »
    Yes we are open to having professional oversight, finding suitable professionals seems to be proving problematic. As the job will cost approx 100k it doesn't seem lucrative enough for them to take on at present.

    We've a builder lined up (family friend), he recommended a structural engineer, the engineers answer to everything so far is "ah sure if you're willing to throw enough money into it then anything can be done". This doesn't sit well with me because a) I'm not paying for someone else's mistakes and b) I'm not putting my life in danger regarding fire protection, especially when I myself am deaf.

    To give you a better idea of the engineer, he recommends we install a septic tank without planning as "sure who will know about it?". I don't want to potentially contaminate our own drinking water and when we proceed to stage 2 (aforementioned bedroom wing) we will need planning permission, the illegally installed septic tank will become an issue then.

    We almost feel we're stuck with this fella because we can't seem to get another engineer or an architect on board. Thanks for the advice so far, greatly appreciated.

    I said a professional. That “engineer” is not a professional.
    Has your builder friend not worked with other architects or engineers during his career?


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    #10
    lucowell
    Registered Users Posts: 19 ✭lucowell


    FishOnABike wrote: »
    Try asking the engineer for that in writing and let them know you'll be taking it up with their professional indemnity insurance if there's any problems and you'll soon see how little they would be willing to commit to.

    Hard as it might be to find another engineer I'd steer well clear of any cowboy who tells you to ignore regulations. It could be an expensive lesson otherwise.

    I agree, I'd rather hold out another year and take my chances that another professional will come available.


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    #11
    lucowell
    Registered Users Posts: 19 ✭lucowell


    kceire wrote: »
    I said a professional. That “engineer” is not a professional.
    Has your builder friend not worked with other architects or engineers during his career?

    The builder told us we didn't need an architect and instead recommended the engineer.

    I went myself to we a local architect but she only takes the project to planning, after that we'd have to find an engineer to bring the project to completion. This doesn't suit us as we are not in the building trade and utterly clueless.

    Contacted another architect and was told they can't take on the project, contacted another architect and was ghosted, another engineer and was told they're too busy.

    As of now we've a meeting with an architect scheduled for April. It's a compromise as I feel we need a conservation architect, but this guy is not conservation graded.

    But its good to know that the current engineer is not up to standard and not to let the wool be pulled over our eyes. Thanks for that.


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    #12
    mad m
    Registered Users Posts: 9,001 ✭✭✭mad m


    OP ,

    Where are you based.


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    #13
    lucowell
    Registered Users Posts: 19 ✭lucowell


    mad m wrote: »
    OP ,

    Where are you based.

    Am based just outside of Ennis


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    #14
    Calahonda52
    Registered Users Posts: 12,193 ✭✭✭✭Calahonda52


    IMO
    1: vaulted ceiling...madness
    2: one big room... madness: no privacy anywhere in the house except the WC
    3: no draught lobby... madness
    4: build the bedroom wing first

    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.



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