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Free Masons, a secret society?

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13

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    #62
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    the purple tin wrote: »
    Yeah if there is nothing to hide, then why are they hiding the meetings and ceremonies and members list.
    Everything is streamed live now, get with the times, masons.

    The meetings are not hidden. The lodges meet once a month, 8 times a year (we take breaks for the summer). So they are not "hidden". Ceremonies aren't hidden, if you are motivated you can find out about them in books.

    Do you think every tradesman and professional dishes out their secrets down at the pub? The only man who has no secrets is a man who knows nothing worthwhile. If everyone knew the tricks of a trade, the trade would be worthless.
    This is why you pay for Tradesmen and Professionals.

    The customs are unique to the craft, they are our heritage and responsibility to pass on. Kindly do not lecture the GLI on how to run its business. Many lodges have been running successfully for over 300 years. Your observations have been noted and are filled with the secretary (Hint: That is a PFO).


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    #63
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    The meetings are not hidden. The lodges meet once a month, 8 times a year (we take breaks for the summer). So they are not "hidden". Ceremonies aren't hidden, if you are motivated you can find out about them in books.

    Do you think every tradesman and professional dishes out their secrets down at the pub? The only man who has no secrets is a man who knows nothing worthwhile. If everyone knew the tricks of a trade, the trade would be worthless.
    This is why you pay for Tradesmen and Professionals.

    The customs are unique to the craft, they are our heritage and responsibility to pass on. Kindly do not lecture the GLI on how to run its business. Many lodges have been running successfully for over 300 years. Your observations have been noted and are filled with the secretary (Hint: That is a PFO).

    I think the poster has a valid point.

    But the masons are not "tradesmen". Despite the name they don't come and lay your cobblelock paving or build walls. "If everyone knew the tricks of a trade"? Lots of books written about stonework and plumbing and everthing else but that doesn't mean that trade is worthless simple because of that. Tradespeople are valuable because of their years of experience and ability to use that knowledge. They've no need to keep secrets tbf.


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    #64
    zimmermania
    Registered Users Posts: 4,686 ✭✭✭zimmermania


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    I have seen no evidence of this. Also I am not a member of the Knights of Columbanus but have met a few. All the Knights I have met have been decent and upright guys. They made counter offers but they came too late. I do know Senator Fergal Quinn from the SuperQuinn chain was a Knight Commander. They are not secret societies. They operate in the open and the authorities are informed of the organisations and where they meet. Not the same as an organisation with secrets. You are not allowed used use Lodge to forward your political ideas or such.

    Do some research on the Knights,it is their duty to meddle if the need arises.

    Read No Trophies Raise and the interview in Magill magazine where Sureme Knight Vincent Grogan admitted much of it was true and where he also stated that a poor man could not be a member because he could not afford the membership fee and one had to be invited to join by another member and some applications were not accepted.


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    #65
    Liamo57
    Closed Accounts Posts: 157 ✭✭Liamo57


    The Freemasons is a load of bulls...t, mostly made up of Protestants who once upon a time lorded it over the natives. They are irrelevent in modern Ireland because Protestants and anglo Irish culture in Ireland has been diluted as a result of the natives becoming exceptioally well educated. Mullingar is a case in point. It was an unfriendly town full of left footers when I arrived in the 70's and through the influx of non natives it has become a wonderful town, friendly and progressive. The old order are no longer prominant and this is a good thing and the Masons are apsolutely irrelevent more than ever.


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    #66
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    zimmermania wrote: »
    Do some research on the Knights,it is their duty to meddle if the need arises.

    Read No Trophies Raise and the interview in Magill magazine where Sureme Knight Vincent Grogan admitted much of it was true and where he also stated that a poor man could not be a member because he could not afford the membership fee and one had to be invited to join by another member and some applications were not accepted.

    I shall. I am not a member. Knights business is Knights business. Completely separate from the GLI, we have no contact. As they have not interfered with me I shall not with them.

    I am not aware of the Knights fees. That is true poor people are often trapped in the mentality of what they can and cannot afford. My poor sister in law got a new kitchen and sofa out of her redundancy but could not afford to do a part-time course at UCD in HR management. I certainly wasnt rich when I applied to to join craft. I have had 4 candidates, one of them failed because he was a unsuitable character. Two have been through the chair and another is on the way. There was something I failed to uncover.

    Heck even Sinn Fein check if you have a criminal record. Dont you think it is right that members have a say of who comes in? Do you think everyone has the right in whatever job they apply for? Would you want to be sitting with someone convicted of a crime? Someone who was known to have dodgy business practices? Someone with a disagreeable personality?


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    #67
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    Liamo57 wrote: »
    The Freemasons is a load of bulls...t, mostly made up of Protestants who once upon a time lorded it over the natives. They are irrelevent in modern Ireland because Protestants and anglo Irish culture in Ireland has been diluted as a result of the natives becoming exceptioally well educated. Mullingar is a case in point. It was an unfriendly town full of left footers when I arrived in the 70's and through the influx of non natives it has become a wonderful town, friendly and progressive. The old order are no longer prominant and this is a good thing and the Masons are apsolutely irrelevent more than ever.

    Glad you are enjoying the new modern progressive Mullingar.

    Clearly the masonic order failed in Mullingar. We take being able to read write and do arithmetic very seriously else how would a man enter such an order without a good education?
    "irrelevant" "Exceptionally" "Prominent" "absolutely" and "irrelevant".

    Clearly there were no teachers masons in your school. I remember once handing up substandard work and being corrected for it. Clearly the midlands needs a revival of the order and basic spelling.


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    #68
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    zimmermania wrote: »
    Do some research on the Knights,it is their duty to meddle if the need arises.

    Read ......... and the interview in Magill magazine where Sureme Knight Vincent Grogan admitted much of it was true and where he also stated that a poor man could not be a member because he could not afford the membership fee and one had to be invited to join by another member and some applications were not accepted.

    I read the interview firstly the interview is over 50 YEARS OLD. What organisation has not changed membership, constitution or regulation in 50 years. Suggesting the ESB and the regular army was full of knights? IT was 50 years ago!!!! That has changed. Please tell me of some organisation that doesn't ballot its membership, have have head office and does not charge membership at some stage or other.

    I certainly am not a wealthy man by any means but I can still afford a suit, dinner, charity and membership fees to two craft lodges and two Arch Lodges. Membership has changed and attitudes have changed. Have you ever been a member of an organisation you could not afford? I would have loved to have joined and the Knights said they would be willing to accept an application but both came too late as I was a member of the GLI. I have no regrets about which organisation I joined but I often wondered.


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    #69
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    gozunda wrote: »
    Tradespeople are valuable because of their years of experience and ability to use that knowledge. They've no need to keep secrets tbf.

    There are books on Freemasonry too. They are mostly useless or unintelligible unless you are a member of the order or written by someone outside the order with an auld chip on the shoulder, in that case the order is the worst/most useless waste of time. I am sure I could pick up a book on grouting and tiling too. It would lay on the bookshelf gathering dust as I neither have the interest or the experience to go do a job on it. Horses for courses.

    Thank you. When you are sitting in lodge with men with over 400 years of professional experience, you learn things, you can ask things, you learn about order, respect and discipline. You get exposed to every profession under the sun. Do you not see value in that?. The secrecy is important, nobody like a chatty Kathy. Best leave it alone and not bother yourself with frivolities if it is not for you.


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    #70
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    Liamo57 wrote: »
    It was an unfriendly town full of left footers when I arrived in the 70's and through the influx of non natives it has become a wonderful town, friendly and progressive. The old order are no longer prominant and this is a good thing and the Masons are apsolutely irrelevent more than ever.

    Wow 22nd place in youth unemployment blackspots!
    Only 33% unemployment Clearly Freemasons meddling with unemployment blackspots.
    https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/question/2019-07-09/112/

    So who are these new influx of wonderful citizens?
    https://topic.ie/residents-shocked-by-viable-bomb-in-estate/
    So "Drugs are running Mullingar"? Shure that beats the Freemason hands down. So you think moving from pickaxe handles and billhooks to pipebombs is progressive? I thought once I got mark master masons Cert, I was the biz.

    And you were worried about a few odd fellows in lambskins taking over the town?

    You have me surrounded General Cluster, I tip my hat to you.


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    #71
    imme
    Registered Users Posts: 3,200 ✭✭✭imme


    Someone was trying to convince me recently that the Free Masons were behind the Corona virus.

    :D

    I don't know about reshaping humanity. :pac:
    They do nice mince pies however.


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    #72
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    imme wrote: »
    Someone was trying to convince me recently that the Free Masons were behind the Corona virus.

    :D

    I don't know about reshaping humanity. :pac:
    They do nice mince pies however.

    Speak not of the sacred mince pies. Those are for the PMs and sitting officers, you saw nothing be on your way!
    We were told this would a good while and everyone in office is seated for two years.


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    #73
    imme
    Registered Users Posts: 3,200 ✭✭✭imme


    zimmermania wrote: »
    Do some research on the Knights,it is their duty to meddle if the need arises.

    Read No Trophies Raise and the interview in Magill magazine where Sureme Knight Vincent Grogan admitted much of it was true and where he also stated that a poor man could not be a member because he could not afford the membership fee and one had to be invited to join by another member and some applications were not accepted.

    Conspiracy theories is a different thread.

    I seriously don't know how the Free Masons and the Knights of Columbanus get so much attention, they are effectively clubs for older men these days.


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    #74
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    imme wrote: »
    Conspiracy theories is a different thread.

    I seriously don't know how the Free Masons and the Knights of Columbanus get so much attention, they are effectively clubs for older men these days.

    Its not strictly for older guys but you need a certain amount of stuff sorted in your life. You need either your university/trade/business up and running, Then there is dating and marriage, you can take a break for a few years while the kids are growing up so by that time most lads at the earliest are in their early 30 before they can commit properly, presuming they can find it in their lives.

    Men really blossom when the kids leave home and they are about to retire and they can learn the more difficult rites and do more visiting. There is a lifetime of work to be done in Masonry.

    I dont like lads coming in too early, from experience I have found that characters havent become apparent at that stage and life choices have still been fluid. Lads at 21-26 dont last in my experience.


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    #75
    zimmermania
    Registered Users Posts: 4,686 ✭✭✭zimmermania


    imme wrote: »
    Conspiracy theories is a different thread.

    I seriously don't know how the Free Masons and the Knights of Columbanus get so much attention, they are effectively clubs for older men these days.

    You should not seek to stifle any discussion by suggesting that those who comment on the Masons or the Knights and how they operate should go to another thread.

    Read the title of the thread again.


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    #76
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    zimmermania wrote: »
    You should not seek to stifle any discussion by suggesting that those who comment on the Masons or the Knights and how they operate should go to another thread.

    Would you like to share your theories on how the world works? I for one would welcome it.


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    #77
    imme
    Registered Users Posts: 3,200 ✭✭✭imme


    zimmermania wrote: »
    You should not seek to stifle any discussion by suggesting that those who comment on the Masons or the Knights and how they operate should go to another thread.

    Read the title of the thread again.

    I was being facetious, I don't know why so many people want to see organisations such as these as all powerful, able to cover up murders, involved in coups or whatever conspiracy type nonsense that they imagine for them.

    The remarks are so wide of the actual boring reality that it is unbelievable.


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    #78
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    imme wrote: »

    The remarks are so wide of the actual boring reality that it is unbelievable.

    Will someone mention for the love of the God, the TLC Bears and how they are indoctrinating sick kids in hospitals all over the country and how they only run at 0.5% overheads? Cos no other charity can run at the same rates?


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    #79
    zimmermania
    Registered Users Posts: 4,686 ✭✭✭zimmermania


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    I read the interview firstly the interview is over 50 YEARS OLD. What organisation has not changed membership, constitution or regulation in 50 years. Suggesting the ESB and the regular army was full of knights? IT was 50 years ago!!!! That has changed. Please tell me of some organisation that doesn't ballot its membership, have have head office and does not charge membership at some stage or other.

    I certainly am not a wealthy man by any means but I can still afford a suit, dinner, charity and membership fees to two craft lodges and two Arch Lodges. Membership has changed and attitudes have changed. Have you ever been a member of an organisation you could not afford? I would have loved to have joined and the Knights said they would be willing to accept an application but both came too late as I was a member of the GLI. I have no regrets about which organisation I joined but I often wondered.

    The Knights are primarily made up of upper middle class and male merchants,members would be home owners and those who reside in council houses would not be made welcome.
    Catholics can be members of the masons and many are,workers are also welcome to join as are those who served in the armed forces and not just officers.

    That broad membership is not to be found in the Knights and of course one has to be catholic in order to join.


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    #80
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    zimmermania wrote: »
    The Knights are primarily made up of upper middle class and male merchants,members would be home owners and those who reside in council houses would not be made welcome.

    Oh dear. That has changed very much so since the 1960's. My contact was a carpenter and a small shop keeper. Nothing remarkable about either men. They were both proposed as being men of honour, no air or graces about them.

    While I am not a knight, this prevents me from making deeper enquiries, both men were highly intelligent and spent much time reading and learning rites. If you came from a council house it would not prevent you but what are the chances there would be one or more bibles available to study in a house. Its not they would not be mare welcome but it would be akin to a solicitor running a boxing club. It would be an unusual pairing. Dont you think?

    I have no problem with the Knights being exclusively Catholic the same way I have no problem with the Orange Order being exclusively open to the Protestant religions. It is their fraternities, their rules.

    Neither Order has shown bias nor spite against me (I have met and keep company with both). You have very warped view of these organisations. The problem with both is, its the firebrands and attention seekers who seem to get all the media attentions. As for cost prohibiting membership, if you played football you would have to buy your own boots and Jersey, if you want to join a political party you need to pay membership fees, etc etc etc. IF you want to play you must pay. What is wrong with that. You seem to have little understanding how organisations or social groups work within a formal structure or how it finances itself. There are ranks and offices to be observed in any organisation and customs and laws to be observed both written and unwritten

    You know what costs nothing? Sitting at home on the couch by the fire but then you have to put coal on the fire and there is the possibility of wearing on the couch......


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    #81
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,468 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    Oh dear. That has changed very much so since the 1960's. My contact was a carpenter and a small shop keeper. Nothing remarkable about either men. They were both proposed as being men of honour, no air or graces about them.

    While I am not a knight, this prevents me from making deeper enquiries, both men were highly intelligent and spent much time reading and learning rites. If you came from a council house it would not prevent you but what are the chances there would be one or more bibles available to study in a house. Its not they would not be mare welcome but it would be akin to a solicitor running a boxing club. It would be an unusual pairing. Dont you think?

    I have no problem with the Knights being exclusively Catholic the same way I have no problem with the Orange Order being exclusively open to the Protestant religions. It is their fraternities, their rules.

    All men though? No women?


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    #82
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    All men though? No women?

    and?
    You must have been online all night working that one out.
    Their club, their rules.


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    #83
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,468 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    and?
    You must have been online all night working that one out.
    Their club, their rules.

    So, exclusively Catholic, exclusively male - gee, you're making it sound just so irresistible.

    Why would any social movement want to exclude people by gender?


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    #84
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    So, exclusively Catholic, exclusively male - gee, you're making it sound just so irresistible.

    Why would any social movement want to exclude people by gender?

    Ohhhh Just you wait until you are married.

    I will tell you what, you go order a load of sashes, rings and paraphernalia.
    Build your own hall and collect your own dues and set up your own charitable institutions. Develop your own ceremonies that are coherent and make sense and build a world wide network. Annonce it is open to everyone, see how many come..... Even Sinn Fein, you have to be vouched for and balloted for. Their club their rules, and I am fine with that. They dont interfere with me, nor I with them.

    What good is anything that does not have traits or virtues? Like salt that loses its taste,only fit to be thrown out under the feet of men.


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    #85
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,468 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    Ohhhh Just you wait until you are married.

    I will tell you what, you go order a load of sashes, rings and paraphernalia.
    Build your own hall and collect your own dues and set up your own charitable institutions. Develop your own ceremonies that are coherent and make sense and build a world wide network. Annonce it is open to everyone, see how many come..... Even Sinn Fein, you have to be vouched for and balloted for. Their club their rules, and I am fine with that. They dont interfere with me, nor I with them.

    What good is anything that does not have traits or virtues? Like salt that loses its taste,only fit to be thrown out under the feet of men.

    Just in case you missed the question;

    Why would any social movement want to exclude people by gender?


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    #86
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,179 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Just in case you missed the question;

    Why would any social movement want to exclude people by gender?

    Ask the Irish Countrywomens Association. Or is it ok when men are excluded?


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    #87
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Just in case you missed the question;

    Why would any social movement want to exclude people by gender?

    *deep in prayer* Please lord give AndrewJRenko the life experience that would allow him to see the difference between women and men and how they are different.

    Sometimes men would like to socialise with men, sometimes women would like to socialise with women. There are things you can say in mixed company and there are things you cannot say in mixed company. The trick is to know the difference. I want you to know I am praying for your enlightenment.


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    #88
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,468 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    *deep in prayer* Please lord give AndrewJRenko the life experience that would allow him to see the difference between women and men and how they are different.

    Sometimes men would like to socialise with men, sometimes women would like to socialise with women. There are things you can say in mixed company and there are things you cannot say in mixed company. The trick is to know the difference. I want you to know I am praying for your enlightenment.

    So the Knights and the Masons are social clubs for the lads to tell durty jokes, rather than anything to do with good works or charitable purposes - good to know.

    Just all seems a bit 1970s to me.


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    #89
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,179 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    So the Knights and the Masons are social clubs for the lads to tell durty jokes, rather than anything to do with good works or charitable purposes - good to know.

    nobody has said that. in fact, quite the opposite. you're just making stuff up now.


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    #90
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,468 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    nobody has said that. in fact, quite the opposite. you're just making stuff up now.

    That's exactly what Skooter said.


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    #91
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,179 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    That's exactly what Skooter said.

    he said
    Sometimes men would like to socialise with men, sometimes women would like to socialise with women. There are things you can say in mixed company and there are things you cannot say in mixed company.

    i see nothing there that suggest they dont also do charitable works. It is possible for a society to fulfill many aims.


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