How bad is Mountjoy?

yourdeadwright · 12-02-2019 1:43pm

Fiftyfilthy wrote: »

Yes, completely understand. I’m not a liberal in any way but there are 2 paths the guy could take

Carry on being a scumbag

Or

Move forward with his life in a positive way

I’m not even saying congratulations, I’m acknowledging the fact that he has done this and have some respect in doing so

Exactly

They guys said his crimes where when he was young and he as changed his life around so fair play to him ,

Obviously if he I'd have a different view or not interested in reforming himself or committed horrible crimes,

Fiftyfilthy · 12-02-2019 1:47pm

realdanbreen wrote: »

What else can he do?
Lets see, he now has a degree + masters so presumeably is earning very decent money. How about making some attempt to repay his victims?

In theory perhaps

I doubt it though, a degree doesn’t mean high paying job, might not be working in the field of his degree

Also 20 years later, tracks down his victim here is £xxxx

Would the victim want it? Would he want to be Reminded about the guy?

Is there a victim in the sense we are assuming?

MuffinTop86 · 12-02-2019 1:49pm

realdanbreen wrote: »

What else can he do?
Lets see, he now has a degree + masters so presumeably is earning very decent money. How about making some attempt to repay his victims?

He's doing a PhD so probably not making much money at all.
How do you know the victims weren't already compensated through insurance or whatever?
Why do you think he should do time and continue to punish himself?

yourdeadwright · 12-02-2019 1:53pm

MuffinTop86 wrote: »

He's doing a PhD so probably not making much money at all.
How do you know the victims weren't already compensated through insurance or whatever?
Why do you think he should do time and continue to punish himself?

There may not have even been any victims ?
He good have done any number of victimless crimes to end up in prison ,

weldoninhio · 12-02-2019 1:53pm

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

he has repaid his debt to society in the most dramatic way at our disposal, the deprivation of personal liberty. Try to imagine what that is like, being taken away by the State and removed from your life and loved ones, including a partner and children if you have them. I can't even imagine.

The guy now seems to be doing all the right things, you'd think everyone would be glad for him, but...

What about victims of horrible crimes, who have to live with the actions caused by others, for the rest of their lives. There is no day release or good behaviour remission for them.

Gadgetman496 · 12-02-2019 2:08pm

weldoninhio wrote: »

What about victims of horrible crimes, who have to live with the actions caused by others, for the rest of their lives. There is no day release or good behaviour remission for them.

Every action has consequences, and yes, you are correct in what you say.

But those actions can't be undone, so the consequences for the victims are horrible but the perpetrator doesn't get away scot free either.

It's a two fold dilemma that leaves two different roads to be traveled by both parties involved, none of which are easy. There are no winners in these situations.

While some say "Time is a great healer", for some reason the reformed perpetrators of crime never seem to be let leave their past where it belongs, in the past.

TallGlass · 12-02-2019 2:11pm

Also. Are you not going down the avenue with basically compensation. So if someone does a crime and has money to pay the victim/s. They instead offer cash as a way out of going to prison.

Omackeral · 12-02-2019 2:14pm

realdanbreen wrote: »

What else can he do?
Lets see, he now has a degree + masters so presumeably is earning very decent money. How about making some attempt to repay his victims?

What if his convictions were for sale or supply of drugs, who does he pay then? The cartels? Not everything is black and white. For so you know, some victims want nothing to do with perpetrators after the fact as it could open up all wounds.

You asked a question, got a very detailed and personal reply and I notice you didn't thank the poster for their effort.

dar100 · 12-02-2019 2:15pm

realdanbreen wrote: »

What else can he do?
Lets see, he now has a degree + masters so presumeably is earning very decent money. How about making some attempt to repay his victims?

You seem to be caught up in my education a lot!!!

I work in the not for profit sector, i don't earn a lot, my educational endeavours, paid for at my own expense, not with Susie grants are my love for education not necessarily needed to do my job . I now work in an area where i don't receive increments, nor pensions (my choice of course). My main body of work entails providing interventions aimed at limiting the impact of those using the service have on Joe Public, so they are not out stealing from you or any others in society.

I could quite easily, like you, ask where is the financial redress for the impact that illegally being excluded from school system at 10 years of age and not having alternatives for schooling offered? This is just one small example of the types of impact that in some manner impacted on my offending as a child.

I was brought up with nothing, in an environment stuck in the most extreme social deprivation you could imagine, where people had to lie about their address to try even get an interview, crime and drug abuse was at epidemic levels, denied by governmental institutes as not a problem, 80% unemployment, intergenerational issues going back years, all placed in ghettos with no services, no hope, and an overwhelming sense of powerlessness. This is without even mentioning the traumas perpetrated behind doors and by those placed in positions of power.

I hope this can in some way contextualize the issues, not excuse or rationalise, but provide the structural, political, and socioeconomic parameters in which crime and criminality occurs in. Sadly, I was not of the variety that wears a shirt and take millions from people at the a stroke of a pen, those individuals are not classed as criminals as those that legislate for law identify with them.

Now, of course all who grow up in such environments don't commite crime, but, its not that simple. Some people engage like this as its all they know, and in some cases the only way they can survive, what's a child to do when the parents are addicts or alcoholics, and food is a scarcity?? This is the reality currently for children in Ireland, and was far more serious in the late 80's early 90'.

Going to school.and getting good grades, or even attending school is not a priority when your hungry or trying to be a parent to an adult. This is Ireland, and this is the reality for many children, the same children who commit crime, end up in prisons, and drugs. Its our hidden harm, but only hidden until it impacts on others outside of these environments.

Feck, just realised this post is in AfterhoursðŸ˜€ðŸ˜€ðŸ˜€ðŸ˜€

weldoninhio · 12-02-2019 2:31pm

dar100 wrote: »

You seem to be caught up in my education a lot!!!

I work in the not for profit sector, i don't earn a lot, my educational endeavours, paid for at my own expense, not with Susie grants are my love for education not necessarily needed to do my job . I now work in an area where i don't receive increments, nor pensions (my choice of course). My main body of work entails providing interventions aimed at limiting the impact of those using the service have on Joe Public, so they are not out stealing from you or any others in society.

I could quite easily, like you, ask where is the financial redress for the impact that illegally being excluded from school system at 10 years of age and not having alternatives for schooling offered? This is just one small example of the types of impact that in some manner impacted on my offending as a child.

I was brought up with nothing, in an environment stuck in the most extreme social deprivation you could imagine, where people had to lie about their address to try even get an interview, crime and drug abuse was at epidemic levels, denied by governmental institutes as not a problem, 80% unemployment, intergenerational issues going back years, all placed in ghettos with no services, no hope, and an overwhelming sense of powerlessness. This is without even mentioning the traumas perpetrated behind doors and by those placed in positions of power.

I hope this can in some way contextualize the issues, not excuse or rationalise, but provide the structural, political, and socioeconomic parameters in which crime and criminality occurs in. Sadly, I was not of the variety that wears a shirt and take millions from people at the a stroke of a pen, those individuals are not classed as criminals as those that legislate for law identify with them.

Now, of course all who grow up in such environments don't commite crime, but, its not that simple. Some people engage like this as its all they know, and in some cases the only way they can survive, what's a child to do when the parents are addicts or alcoholics, and food is a scarcity?? This is the reality currently for children in Ireland, and was far more serious in the late 80's early 90'.

Going to school.and getting good grades, or even attending school is not a priority when your hungry or trying to be a parent to an adult. This is Ireland, and this is the reality for many children, the same children who commit crime, end up in prisons, and drugs. Its our hidden harm, but only hidden until it impacts on others outside of these environments.

Feck, just realised this post is in AfterhoursðŸ˜€ðŸ˜€ðŸ˜€ðŸ˜€

Are you Frank McCourt??

dar100 · 12-02-2019 2:36pm

weldoninhio wrote: »

Are you Frank McCourt??

Angela?

weldoninhio · 12-02-2019 2:38pm

dar100 wrote: »

Angela?

When I was growing up we didn’t even have a house, just a puddle. And we weren’t given swimming lessons. We had to fight over dirt to eat for dinner. Oh woe is me!!

dar100 · 12-02-2019 2:42pm

weldoninhio wrote: »

When I was growing up we didn’t even have a house, just a puddle. And we weren’t given swimming lessons. We had to fight over dirt to eat for dinner. Oh woe is me!!

You still managed to master some fairly good keyboard warrior skills in that there puddle.... moma must of having a second more affluent puddle on the side

dermo888 · 13-02-2019 3:11pm

dar100 wrote: »

You still managed to master some fairly good keyboard warrior skills in that there puddle.... moma must of having a second more affluent puddle on the side

I could'nt help reading your profile, and posts, and have to admit, your the kind of man who can sway the heart and mind of the hardest right winger.

Many stay stuck in the rut. Others fight it. Some finally succeed. Your in the last category. Sorry if I sound like a patronising prick..

poisonated · 14-02-2019 12:05am

I can’t imagine mountjoy is pleasant. I know that if I was sent there I wouldn’t cope. I think anyone who is able to survive that and then better themselves is commendable.

Jane_Dough · 14-02-2019 12:05am

Are there any D4s in Mountjoy?

tuxy · 14-02-2019 12:09am

Jane_Dough wrote: »

Are there any D4s in Mountjoy?

Probably, apparently white collar criminals get to work in the kitchen all day and then locked up at night so it's a type of segregation.

Sleeper12 · 14-02-2019 12:11am

There was a documentary on one of the Irish channels tonight about the Midlands prison. I only caught a few minutes of it. It's a lot more modern than Mountjoy but for anyone interested in this thread might find the documentary interesting. I'm sure it will be on rte player

Gadgetman496 · 14-02-2019 12:39am

Sleeper12 wrote: »

There was a documentary on one of the Irish channels tonight about the Midlands prison. I only caught a few minutes of it. It's a lot more modern than Mountjoy but for anyone interested in this thread might find the documentary interesting. I'm sure it will be on rte player

That's a 4 part documentary filmed over a full year called "Inside Ireland’s Biggest Prison - True Lives" and tonight's was part 2 of 4. the first one aired on Wed Feb 6 2019.

It's on Virgin media One

Player

https://www.virginmediatelevision.ie/player/show/1618/154426/0/Inside-Ireland%27s-Biggest-Prison

laoisgem · 14-02-2019 12:41am

Sleeper12 wrote: »

There was a documentary on one of the Irish channels tonight about the Midlands prison. I only caught a few minutes of it. It's a lot more modern than Mountjoy but for anyone interested in this thread might find the documentary interesting. I'm sure it will be on rte player

It’s a 4 week documentary, started last week, on virgin media one ðŸ˜‰ inside Ireland’s biggest prison

What gadgetman said ðŸ™‚

italodisco · 26-02-2019 4:25pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

4 years with 25%off for good behaviour =3 years.

How did you get out after 1 year? Was some of the 4 years suspended by the judge?

Part suspension

28-10-2019 12:01am

GAA Beo wrote: »

Places like Mountjoy are worse if you don't know people in there. I'd say a lot of lads in there know each other from outside, also all the gangs etc. Could be hard to keep your head down. Seen an Irish prison film on netflix decent enough called Michael inside, wonder how accurate it is?

Wonder how often lads get slashed in the face with a blade or get the boiling water and sugar treatment? You could be minding your own business and some toerag could take a disliking to you.

Just saw the very poignant Michael Inside on Netflix tonight and I've the precise same curiosity so a search on Boards brought up this thread. How common is such violence in Mountjoy? Do you have to have some sort of gang protection in real life? If a prisoner, like Michael in that film, did inform the prison authorities that he feared for his life, would they protect him or would things just get worse?

Also, is sexual assault common in Irish prisons?

US2 · 28-10-2019 12:29am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Just saw the very poignant Michael Inside on Netflix tonight and I've the precise same curiosity so a search on Boards brought up this thread. How common is such violence in Mountjoy? Do you have to have some sort of gang protection in real life? If a prisoner, like Michael in that film, did inform the prison authorities that he feared for his life, would they protect him or would things just get worse?

Also, is sexual assault common in Irish prisons?

I know someone who did 9 months and said Michael Inside is very accurate.

There's an ASK ME ANYTHING with a fella who did a few years in there, there's one from a prison warden aswell. Can't link but it's on here somewhere

From what I've heard no rapes or anything it's all a myth but then again nobody would admit it. Fellas giving blowjobs for drugs or tabacco alright

dd973 · 28-10-2019 2:05am

One of the most ridiculous myths about prisons is that sexual assault is endemic, people can't become gay anymore than they can become black, there's bound to be sound people you'd get on with in there as well, it's also nonsense that they're a permanent war zone or a riot is always on the brink of kicking off.

Dank Janniels · 28-10-2019 5:14am

Any1 rember a tv show called Oz? If they werent killing each other they were riding each other!!

Hector Savage · 28-10-2019 12:41pm

Dank Janniels wrote: »

Any1 rember a tv show called Oz? If they werent killing each other they were riding each other!!

Yeah, horrible show, depressing as it was probably pretty realistic, the scum in there - plus the scum working and profiting from the whole system.

El_Duderino 09 · 28-10-2019 12:48pm

macnug wrote: »

Depends on the prison itself, Mountjoy is probably the worst in ireland. US are one of the worst in western world imo, Californian prisons are the worst for white inmates, East Coast not as bad. South American prisons are way worse though, don't even get a bed in most just a rat infested floor.

And is there no crime in those places with horrible prisons?

El_Duderino 09 · 28-10-2019 12:52pm

US2 wrote: »

From what I've heard no rapes or anything it's all a myth but then again nobody would admit it. Fellas giving blowjobs for drugs or tabacco alright

There is rape but not like in films. They call it “bullying” instead of rape, for some reason. And they almost never report it so the stats say there’s no rape, but that’s not the full story. Telling tales isn’t really well regarded in prison. Snitches gets stitches, and all that.

Gael23 · 28-10-2019 2:05pm

OP why don’t you commit a heinous crime and get to spend a nice long spell in there. Then you can come back and tell us

Sleeper12 · 28-10-2019 2:32pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote:

Thee is rape but not like in films. They call it â€œbullyingâ€ instead of rape, for some reason. And they almost never report it so the stats say thereâ€™s no rape, but thatâ€™s not the full story. Telling tales isnâ€™t really well regarded in prison. Snitches gets stitches, and all that.

Bigge load of nonsense. You have been watching too much TV mate.

Plenty of posters are prison officers or have spent time in prison. Not a single one would agree with your assumption

El_Duderino 09 · 28-10-2019 3:17pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Bigge load of nonsense. You have been watching too much TV mate.

Plenty of posters are prison officers or have spent time in prison. Not a single one would agree with your assumption

Which assumption are you referring to? I made 4 claims in that post.
1. There is rape in prison but not like in films.
2. Rape in prison is referred to as “bullying”
3. It’s under reported, because,
4. Reporting crimes to the prison guards isn’t well regarded.

Which assumption is nonsense?

I’d add in another claim, it tends to be vulnerable inmates who are targeted for sexual assault - the learning disabled are an easier target

Sleeper12 · 28-10-2019 3:36pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote:

Which assumption are you referring to? I made 3 claims in that post. 1. Rape in prison is referred to as â€œbullyingâ€ 2. Itâ€™s under reported, because, 3. Reporting crimes to the prison guards isnâ€™t well regarded.

El_Duderino 09 wrote:

Which assumption is nonsense?

All three to be honest.

1. Rape in Irish prison is called Rape. It has NEVER been classified as bullying

2. Its not under reported. It almost never happens in Irish prison. You are talking one every 5 to 10 years.

3. Inmates report crimes daily in Irish prison, to prison officers and to the governor.

Here is what you don't understand. The rapist has more to fear than the victim in Irish prison. The rapist can & will be sliced up. He will have to spend the rest of his sentence on 24 hour lock up. The worst label you can have in a regular Irish prison is being a jockey. A rat comes close 2nd BUT not if you rat out a jockey. Someone who "outs" a jockey or a rat is "the man" in prison. He is never seen as a rat.

Your assumptions aren't fact based. You watch too much TV or you are talking about prison in a different country.

El_Duderino 09 · 28-10-2019 3:43pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

All three to be honest.

1. Rape in Irish prison is called Rape. It has NEVER been classified as bullying

2. Its not under reported. It almost never happens in Irish prison. You are talking one every 5 to 10 years.

3. Inmates report crimes daily in Irish prison, to prison officers and to the governor.

Here is what you don't understand. The rapist has more to fear than the victim in Irish prison. The rapist can & will be sliced up. He will have to spend the rest of his sentence on 24 hour lock up. The worst label you can have in a regular Irish prison is being a jockey. A rat comes close 2nd BUT not if you rat out a jockey. Someone who "outs" a jockey or a rat is "the man" in prison. He is never seen as a rat.

Your assumptions aren't fact based. You watch too much TV or you are talking about prison in a different country.

Ok. My mrs works with inmates and she’s my only source. But you seem to feel you know more about it.

Mark25 · 28-10-2019 3:50pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Just saw the very poignant Michael Inside on Netflix tonight and I've the precise same curiosity so a search on Boards brought up this thread. How common is such violence in Mountjoy? Do you have to have some sort of gang protection in real life? If a prisoner, like Michael in that film, did inform the prison authorities that he feared for his life, would they protect him or would things just get worse?

Also, is sexual assault common in Irish prisons?

Have seen that too and it is pretty realistic in some ways. But that type if violence wouldn't be happening all the time like people think. Most of the trouble that goes on is from things that have happened on the outside. One of the first things you get asked when you go in is if you are fighting with anybody on the outside and that then decides what landing you get put on. Peoplegrt into trouble inside for things like drugs, gambling or "borrowing" something. It mostly doesn't happen for no reason.

People from gangs do hang out together but you don't need gang protection. It is easier if you know or know of people in there and you tend to get with people you have something in common with - like being from the same area etc. If you don't go looking for trouble or causing trouble or being something you are not you are normally OK. I only had 2 issues with people when I was in there and nothing too serious either time. If you have hundreds of young/youngish lads locked up together that's bound to happen but far from an every day thing.

Yeah you could tell the Officers if you are having a problem but most people don't - just not done. If something happens its normally sorted out among the different prisoners in some way. If you went to the screws you would probably end up on protection which most people don't want.

Sexual assault - well heard the odd rumour but didn't see anything myself. When I was there St Pats was still there so everybody in Mountjoy was over 21. Mountjoy was better than it used to be - slopping out was gone and it was mostly single cells (think it's all single cells now) so much less chance of anything like that happening. Like it's bad enough being there but it's not a total war zone there either.

Sleeper12 · 28-10-2019 3:50pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote:

Ok. My mrs works with inmates and sheâ€™s my only source. But you seem to feel you know more about it.

Obviously yes I do

El_Duderino 09 · 28-10-2019 3:59pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Obviously yes I do

How do you know so much?

Sleeper12 · 28-10-2019 4:11pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote:

How do you know so much?

That's a little personal but I am very knowledgeable about Cloverhill, Wheatfield, Mountjoy and Lachlan House.

pablo128 · 28-10-2019 4:21pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

How do you know so much?

There was an accusation of rape in 2000 in Mountjoy. The lad who had been allegedly raped had been bullying someone. Another couple of lads from the bullied lads area found out. When the bullier was taking in drugs off a visit, he was pulled into the toilets at the end of the wing. When he wouldn't hand over the drugs, they were taken out with a metal spoon.

So that's at least one false allegation of rape.

Anus Von Skidmark · 28-10-2019 4:34pm

pablo128 wrote: »

There was an accusation of rape in 2000 in Mountjoy. The lad who had been allegedly raped had been bullying someone. Another couple of lads from the bullied lads area found out. When the bullier was taking in drugs off a visit, he was pulled into the toilets at the end of the wing. When he wouldn't hand over the drugs, they were taken out with a metal spoon.

So that's at least one false allegation of rape.

So the story was 'pulled out of his arse'?

pablo128 · 28-10-2019 4:37pm

Anus Von Skidmark wrote: »

So the story was 'pulled out of his arse'?

???

pablo128 · 28-10-2019 4:41pm

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.irishtimes.com/news/prisoner-raped-by-mountjoy-inmates-1.1260604%3Fmode%3Damp&ved=2ahUKEwiAr8fJpL_lAhVTh1wKHdDPAbUQFjABegQIBxAI&usg=AOvVaw10Z6Aq88y5R0eLERiJx63H&ampcf=1

Sleeper12 · 28-10-2019 4:54pm

Anus Von Skidmark wrote: »

So the story was 'pulled out of his arse'?

You have the perfect username for that comment! :pac:

corner of hells · 28-10-2019 5:53pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Ok. My mrs works with inmates and she’s my only source. But you seem to feel you know more about it.

I work with ex prisoners quite a bit and would be involved in support around trauma and can honestly say I've never heard of anything like you describe , I'm aware of a single solitary event that got into the media.
I've got a couple of friends who are prison officers too and a couple of friends who are ex prisoners too , all saying it's almost none existant.

El_Duderino 09 · 28-10-2019 5:56pm

corner of hells wrote: »

I work with ex prisoners quite a bit and would be involved in support around trauma and can honestly say I've never heard of anything like you describe , I'm aware of a single solitary event that got into the media.
I've got a couple of friends who are prison officers too and a couple of friends who are ex prisoners too , all saying it's almost none existant.

Yeah it seems I’ve got faulty info.

corner of hells · 28-10-2019 5:59pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Yeah it seems I’ve got faulty info.

In saying that , I only work with a particular subset , however I'm aware of young offenders being victims of that type if assault, under 18s.

tuxy · 28-10-2019 6:01pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Yeah it seems I’ve got faulty info.

Where did you get this faulty info from? Your mrs?

The AMA here on boards from a former inmate and prison guard are both great reads.
Both saying there is not the same rape culture in Irish prison as there is in other countries.
There may be some consensual stuff happening but it's kept very low key as they would not want any other inmates finding out.

Sleeper12 · 28-10-2019 6:04pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote:

Yeah it seems Iâ€™ve got faulty info.

In fairness to you and your wife, she can only go on information given to her by inmates. Inmates like to wind up the teachers sometimes and most of the teachers believe what they are told.

El_Duderino 09 · 28-10-2019 6:09pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

In fairness to you and your wife, she can only go on information given to her by inmates. Inmates like to wind up the teachers sometimes and most of the teachers believe what they are told.

She’s not a teacher. She only works with inmates with mental health problems or learning difficulties or both.

But she’s my only source of info.

nannerby · 28-10-2019 6:13pm

Loads of consensual stuff goes on but very little in the way of sexual assaults.

tuxy · 28-10-2019 6:19pm

nannerby wrote: »

Loads of consensual stuff goes on but very little in the way of sexual assaults.

In other counties rape is used as punishment and means to have control and fear over another inmate. Any info I've read would indicate this is not a thing in Irish prisons, other means may be used but not rape.
A rapist in an Irish prison would have to be moved to Arbour Hill for his own protection, it's not tolerated.

How bad is Mountjoy?

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