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Coming to terms with not having another child

  • 18-11-2019 1:21am
    #1
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭


    I'm sort of surprised I feel so sad about this but it feels like an increasingly heavy weight on me. My wife is 41 (just) and I am 46 and she's told me for certain that she doesn't want another child. She feels she's too old and she would be pushing our good luck (we have two healthy children). She has spoken to me about the risks, or at least about her perception of those risks. Rationally, I know that's the deciding factor and that's what's going to happen. Deep breaths.

    Yet at another level, plenty of people have healthy children at her age, especially with our more modern health system. My mind's a muddle at the moment, but the pre-eminent feeling is now a sense of loss. That this is it. The rest of our lives are sort of settled, and I had no say in it. I had thought we would have another child, and I was looking forward to seeing my wife being once again more beautiful in her pregnancy. After the last child she said she wanted another one.

    However, things became tougher in our relationship after the second child and she changed her mind about having a third child during that key period. Now, when things are better again, it's "too late". It's only last Friday that we had a painful discussion about it. I feel like it was a unilateral decision, and that there is now something missing. Now when I hear about others having a third child a feeling of sadness, and a degree of anger I must concede, comes on me. She has said she has come to terms with it, and that makes me feel even more emotionally isolated.

    She has said we should be grateful for what we have, and asked if we had another child would I be happy then. That was a good question and I don't know to what extent my feelings are due to an increasing awareness of my own mortality that her decision has provoked in me and accordingly to what extent those feelings would occur even after 3 children anyway. As I said, I'm muddled about things at the moment. But I do know there's a want in me for another little life and this decision to me feels like closing a chapter on our life before it has properly concluded. I know I need to try and come to terms with this new future that I didn't want, to move on, so any perspective, insight, reading or philosophy recommendations for this stage in life that could help lift this sadness would be most welcome. Thanks.


Comments

  • #2
    Ursus Horribilis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,168 ✭✭✭Ursus Horribilis


    OP, did you post about this before? https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin//showthread.php?t=2058004485 It all sounds very familiar.

    For what it's worth, I'm on your wife's side here. Even if she is lucky enough to (a) get pregnant in the first place and (b) has a healthy child, having a third child will have serious implications for the life you have. Child number 3 isn't about your wife being "beautiful in pregnancy" (barf!) . You can complain all you want about her making this unilateral decision. What I'm seeing here is somebody who is refusing to respect her decision and is dismissing her concerns. Is the woman not entitled to change her mind, based on her ongoing life experiences?


  • #3
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    sorry op, ive no doubt your feelings of sadness are genuine but there's nothing in your wife's case that doesn't ring true, and there's very little in yours that doesn't seem to treat the third child as some magical fix to an issue you're not naming.

    it really does come across as something you need to work at defining and working on, whatever it is. but it doesnt sound like a child is the answer.


  • #4
    J Mysterio
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,035 ✭✭✭✭J Mysterio


    I think you need to get over it. You have a wife and two kids, consider yourself lucky.

    I'm 34 and have neither a wife nor kids, but would like both.

    Count your blessings.


  • #5
    afterglow
    Registered Users Posts: 461 ✭✭afterglow


    Hi OP

    Most of what i say here, undoubtedly you will not like, but you asked for perspectives, so here's one
    Some people never have even one child, or they have more than one, and child number 1, 2, 3, maybe all, are born with disabilities, or predispositions to health conditions of one sort or another, be they physical, psychological, all of the above. You have 2 healthy children as you say yourself, and a relationship, which went through a tough time, but has now recovered from that also. Instead of focusing so much on what you want, and can't have, what's missing, how about some gratitude? Either through a journal, or walking every day and just focusing on what you have to be grateful for? Your healthy children, your wife, and how your relationship is going? Gratitude i find, can be a great antidote to sadness, at least if we allow it to be
    You could also, make it your mission to try, a little every day, to just send some kind thoughts to the situation, and to your wife, try imagine, how she feels, she will undoubtedly feel pressure, and like this is something she ' should ' be doing. You have the power, to turn this all around. Notice what you have instead of what you have not, thank your lucky stars that your relationship recovered, i'm sure many have not, and for less.
    I wish you the best of luck, and hope you can find peace, and have a happy marriage and family, for a long time to come :)


  • #6
    lozenges
    Registered Users Posts: 290 ✭✭lozenges


    I would also add that your wife is correct about pregnancy risks increasing as you both get older, and it's not something that you should dismiss out of hand. The risk of miscarriage is higher. The risk of having a baby with Downs syndrome is 1/100 for a 40 yo woman compared to 1/1250 for a 25 yo woman. There is also a lot of evidence to suggest that increasing age of the father increases the risk of autism -75% increased risk for a man over the age of 45 than in a man in his early 20s.

    For some families eg those who have difficulty conceiving, have been through IVF that's an acceptable risk. But you have two children already. Ask yourself why you want another? What do you think another child will give you that the two you already have won't?

    And please let go of the resentment you feel towards your wife. She is making a sensible decision.


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  • #7
    fits
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,649 ✭✭✭✭fits


    Focus on the good. You are very lucky to have two healthy children and two is a good number for holidays, college etc. It’s ok to feel sad about not having another but unfortunately you must respect your wife’s decision.


  • #8
    tara73
    Registered Users Posts: 2,342 ✭✭✭tara73


    I remember a very similar thread not long ago too.

    If you are really the same poster I pity your wife at this stage and there is nothing much to add than the stuff that's already been said numerous times.

    You need to accept the decision of your wife and if you are going on with nagging, discussions and resentness you are at the risk of loosing the great things you have in your life, namely this kids and the wife!

    Other people don't have kids at all, a loving partner or have to deal with horrible health issues. Be thankful for what you have!


  • #9
    qwerty13
    Registered Users Posts: 1,272 ✭✭✭qwerty13


    I can understand a small tinge of regret, but you are seriously taking this to the limit in your 2nd thread on this topic.

    You’re being completely self indulgent in the face of logic (your ages, the risks, your finances, the impact on your lives and relationship) - and also the glaringly obvious point that you don’t have to grow a baby inside your body, and suffer all that entails.


  • #10
    Xterminator
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,760 ✭✭✭Xterminator


    Hi OP

    Please get some professional help before you irreparably damage your relationship. These discussions where you have pinned your own issues on the need to have a 3rd child could well cause permanent damage to your marriage, if you continue to project your own issues onto your wife and try to pressure her into an unwanted risky pregnancy.

    you said
    She has said we should be grateful for what we have
    and i completely agree, you need to learnt to appreciate what you have. Thats why i think counselling could help you work through the issues in your head, and objectively see things froma better perspective.


  • #11
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    OP we are in a similar but opposite position,

    When we first discussed children we both had agree'd on 3,

    then when the first came along it took me years to be ready for no 2, nothing in particular stopped me, i just wasn't ready, when it came to the discussions on having baby no 2 my husband surprised me by saying he was happy with just one, he found the baby years very tough.

    so we discussed it, and discussed it and eventually baby no 2 came along,

    i wanted to go again eventually for no 3, but my husband was definitely done with 2, i felt sad, and like you a bit like "is this it for me" but when my husband had his vasectomy (again after much discussion) it was done, we were done, i think anyone would feel that finality like you and i have done, we each compromised on it and reached a happy place we could both live happily with.

    but i had to let it go, no point on dwelling on me and what i wanted i had 2 little people to keep us busy, my husband loves our family exactly as it is with 2 and this is how it will stay and years on i have to admit he was right, a 3rd child would have meant so much upheaval it would have been hell, (and bonus: most family deals are for 2 adults 2 kids so there is that as a benefit)

    but for the sake of the family you do have op make peace with the situation.


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  • #12
    pwurple
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,449 ✭✭✭✭pwurple


    OP, sorry you're going through this, it sounds like you're experiencing something like a bereavement.

    But, you know you need to be realistic, you're closer to 50 than 40. Even if you started another pregnancy right now, you'll be 47 looking at a newborn. Enjoy your healthy happy children, plan for their teenage and adult lives, start to look forward to maybe seeing grandchildren in your lifetime. I don't know what your life situation was, but it seems a lot of people put off children until they can afford a house etc, maybe start to think about how to prevent that delay for your kids. Smooth their path in education, put aside a deposit for them if they ever need it. Be a supportive parent with a good relationship with them.

    I don't want this to sound flippant, but in case it helps... I do know some people who filled that 'last child' family gap in their life with a different creature to look after and love, like a dog. Would an animal fit into your family?


  • #13
    zapper55
    Registered Users Posts: 684 ✭✭✭zapper55


    For you, pregnancy has only benefits, you (hopefully) get a child at the end. For your wife, her body isnt her own for the guts of two years, the trying period, pregnancy, breastfeeding if she does it and post partum recovery. And that's only the physical and emotional element.

    Does she work? If so she had to park her career for a similar amount of time.

    You mentioned difficulty after the last one which you've breezed over. Imagine going through all the above and also having marriage issues. Really properly imagine it. It might give you some idea of your wife's perspective. Shes just getting her life back and because of something missing in your life you want her to up end it all again? Never mind the physical risks.


  • #14
    Ursus Horribilis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,168 ✭✭✭Ursus Horribilis


    Is there anything that can be read into how you've handled this? You started the previous thread a few months ago and were given plenty of good advice at the time. You didn't engage with that thread in any way at all. Now you're back with much the same issue. It doesn't look like you took a single word from that other thread on board. It makes me wonder are you the same in real life? I'm sure your wife has told you why she doesn't want child no. 3 but are you listening? Properly listening?


  • #15
    Princess Calla
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,993 ✭✭✭Princess Calla


    Why is having a third so important?

    Do you really want to be dealing with a newborn when you are 50?

    What happens if the child is born with special needs? Are you setting your existing children up to a lifetime of being carers?

    What happens if your own health starts to deteriorate? My friend has just turned 50 and has days left due to cancer. Ok that's an extreme case but being a parent does require you to look at worse case scenarios.

    Your wife has valid fears. As others have said this is your second thread on this topic. I'm not sure what you were looking for but you are going to destroy your marriage if you can't find a way to accept her decision.


  • #16
    TheBoyConor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭TheBoyConor


    you need to cop on here. Seriously. You are trying to pressure her into something that has a major major, and potentially catastrophic impact on her.

    It is all well and good for you to be saying yeah lets have a third when you don't have to go through any of the physical and mental trauma and stress and hormones etc of it.

    Tbh, I would say it is your wifes decision as to whether ye have a 3rd child. You asked the question. She said no. That should be it. You should accept that and not be moaing or guilting her into changine her mind. It is a very manipulative and controlling thing to do.

    I'd say stand back and take a look at the situation and how you are behaving. And then just leave her alone about it.

    Sure have you not enough to do with 2 already and everything else?


  • #17
    wiggle16
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,022 Mod ✭✭✭✭wiggle16


    I could understand if you had no children why this would be a dealbreaker. But in that scenario, nothing would change. I'd have more sympathy for you, but nothing would change.

    It doesn't sound like you're listening to her at all - she's explained her reasons to you, but rather than accepting them and accepting that having a child is a joint decision, you're pushing it still. Disappointment is understandable, but this level of distress is not really proportionate to the issue.

    You really need to look at why it is that you're unwilling to accept her decision - not just because of how badly you want a third child, but why her concerns are not enough to make you say "fair enough". I would encourage you to seek some sort of couples' counselling. It sounds like this is one of the ways that the problems in your marriage is manifesting itself, rather than being the issue which is causing those problems.

    Either way, OP, you're going to have to accept that a third child is off the table. That's just how life is sometimes.


  • #18
    Jurgen Klopp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,807 ✭✭✭Jurgen Klopp


    If a third child is something you can't give up, then there's always the option of splitting with your wife and co parenting with the 2 you currently have.


    Then find another woman who wants a child.


  • #19
    TheBoyConor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭TheBoyConor


    ^^^

    That is an absolutely terrible idea.

    Breaking up a good family and setting up two broken families. Dreadful advice. Don't do this op.


  • #20
    pq0n1ct4ve8zf5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,070 ✭✭✭✭pq0n1ct4ve8zf5


    It's understandable that you'd feel a sense of loss and sadness here. Something you thought would happen and which you dearly wanted isn't going to happen.

    However you seem to be stuck in a bit of a loop here, assuming the previous thread was yours too, there doesn't seem to be any progress towards acceptance since then.

    Part of the problem seems to be that while you are accepting this is the outcome of your wife's decision, you are not accepting the validity of that decision or the logic behind it. She's being more level headed and rational than you are here, and it reads to me that you're coming from a place of emotion but with a perception that you're putting forward logical objections that she's then stonewalling. This is bound to lead to resentment on both your parts as you're each going to feel that the other is being unfair and unreasonable. On balance I have to say, it's you who's actually being like that.

    You've touched on it in your posts but this issue being tied up with your feelings about your mortality is important I think, and you should direct your attention a bit more towards that. It's easier to be pissed off at your wife than at death, isn't it?

    You're now brooding on this for three months, and again, without any apparent progress being made. You obviously have a strong need to express this hurt, I know I know it's the cliched response on here but would you consider therapy? As a lot of your negative feelings about this seem to be directed at your wife it might be hard to talk totally honestly with her about it without it leading to conflict and it might be a bit heavy and inappropriate to speak with a friend or family member about.


  • #21
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    easpalinbh wrote: »
    asked if we had another child would I be happy then. That was a good question
    Forget about everything else and focus on this.

    You seem to think that the decision to not have another child has "provoked" a question for you. But has it? Or is that merely a convenient way to defer dealing with this issue?

    If it's an existential crisis, then this is perfectly normal for anyone who's 30+, but can be hard bloody going.

    You say you're muddled, you talk about sadness, it's possible you have post-natal depression. Yes, this can happen to men too, and yes this can persist for years after the child is born.

    Your wife has already called out that you're unhappy. She knows you better than anyone here. Get yourself some professional help, your wife will back you all the way.

    You don't really know what you want, because it's pretty clear that you don't know why you're unhappy. You've latched onto something you think will work, but there's every chance it won't.

    You'd be 47 with a newborn baby keeping you awake and you'll still feel the deep sadness and emptiness inside yourself.


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  • #22
    cannotlogin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,172 ✭✭✭cannotlogin


    I find your post incredibly self indulgent.

    You seem to have no appreciation for the fact you have been blessed with two lovely children.

    The amount of people, men & women, I know with fertility issues and who would love to have children but can't or didn't for a variety of reasons would love to have been even half as lucky as you, is significant.

    A lot of people have no choice in the matter and deal with it far better than you appear to be. Sometimes in life, you just have to put on the big boy pants and deal with the fact life won't give you everything you want and that sometimes life isn't fair.

    In the great scheme of things, you are far luckier than a lot of people but don't seem to have any appreciation of it. So much positive to focus on but continuing to dwell on the negative. Why?


  • #23
    Loveinapril
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,340 ✭✭✭Loveinapril


    cannotlogin wrote: »
    So much positive to focus on but continuing to dwell on the negative. Why?

    Because the OP wasn't coming on to talk about how great his life is, he was coming on to discuss an issue he is having.

    OP, I understand how hard it is feeling like your family was waiting for it's final member but your wife would have to suffer WAY more than you to make this happen. You know all the stats regarding fertility issues, birth defects etc. but physical recovery for your wife will be tougher too. Her career may suffer, your relationship will suffer, the amount of quality time you give your older kids will suffer, your bank balance may suffer. The list goes on. Maybe you should start engaging in mindfulness to help you live in the present.


  • #24
    qwerty13
    Registered Users Posts: 1,272 ✭✭✭qwerty13


    I do understand that you’re logging on here to ask advice re your perceived loss re potential child no 3, but I really believe that if you can’t see what you have in your life at the moment, well you are in danger of losing that too. All of it.

    I think a major re-evaluation of your priorities is needed.


  • #25
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    the only part of your post I get OP is feeling you had no sign in the choice not to have a 3rd child and I can understand that made you feel left out and annoyed but honestly your wife's reasons are solid and she is the one that would take on most of the burden of having the 3rd child. You dismiss them in your post but the reality is over 40 it's a big medical undertaking for her. Ignoring the medical risks of just getting pregnant and the issues she could have with the pregnancy and birth lets look at just having the 3rd child and how much that would impact on your lives. You don't mention how big the gaps were between 1 and 2 and how she recovered from either. If 1 and 2 are close in age thats a big amount of work. Would 3 be close in age or a big gap? If close in age o boy thats a lot or If you've got past the toddler stage with both kids and they are going to school going back to having a baby again is a big change. You'll most likely need to change cars as the jump from two to three makes fitting cars seats etc awkward. Do you have room for 3 kids or will you need to move house or upgrade your current house? There is so much practical stuff that needs to be considered on top of the medical and emotional burden of having another kid. That assumes a healthy 3rd child, now imagine that child has special needs and the impact that has on your lives - both yours, your wife and your kids.

    My friend is 38 and going through IVF for a few years to try and have one, the emotional rollarcoster she's been on is heart breaking. You have two healthy kids, wanting another because you like your wide pregnant is so selfish not just to her but your other kids.


  • #26
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    Your username is disingeneous, easpa linbh means "lack of child" or "lack of baby" in Irish. That simply isn't true.
    You are blessed to have two healthy children. You have a good marriage to a wife who loves you.
    You have gotten more than what millions of people ache for.

    A bit of reflection and gratitude is seriously needed here. Disappointment that you aren't getting your way is natural, but you aren't making any real effort to deal with it and move on. This will fester into resentment and could turn your relationship toxic in time if you don't find a way to make peace with this. Its extremely unhealthy and ungrateful.

    I would suggest you get a dog if you still feel there is a hole in your family. I am in no way trying to liken the value of a child to a dog (although to many they are the same, myself included), but it will be something for you to nurture and look after and might help fill the void.


  • #27
    wiggle16
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,022 Mod ✭✭✭✭wiggle16


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    Your username is disingeneous, easpa linbh means "lack of child" or "lack of baby" in Irish.

    Jesus I didn't even notice that. Easpa has very, very strong connotations of want and loss and absence - like when you hear on the news of the families of people who died tragically and they say "it's left a gaping hole in our lives", that's what easpa means.

    Don't know if you're an Irish speaker, OP, but if that's how you choose to describe how you feel then I would strongly encourage you to seek counselling. I'd very much like to have children, but I never will - and I still wouldn't describe that in the same terms as you're using, and you already have two. You've not suffered a loss, your reaction really is disproportionate to the situation, and it's not fair to put that on your wife.


  • #28
    HildaOgdenx
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 7,371 Mod ✭✭✭✭HildaOgdenx


    wiggle16 wrote: »
    Jesus I didn't even notice that. Easpa has very, very strong connotations of want and loss and absence - like when you hear on the news of the families of people who died tragically and they say "it's left a gaping hole in our lives", that's what easpa means.

    It's the same name as was used on the previous thread, linked upthread by Ursus.


  • #29
    ManOfMystery
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,394 ✭✭✭ManOfMystery


    We have one child, and have long wanted a second - a brother or sister for our little one. But after a number of miscarriages and an ectopic pregnancy (all of which took their toll on us as we built up expectations of a child with each pregnancy) and facing the fact that we are now both into our forties, we have reluctantly accepted that it's not going to happen at this stage.

    It was something that affected us both heavily and as such, I do get a sense of this feeling of 'loss' that you have. However, this is simply something you have to get over. You are blessed currently to have 2 kids, a wife and a good marriage. Would more children be nice? Yes. But you're not in a position like some, who have never been lucky enough to experience parenthood - you have, twice. It's critically important that you maintain some perspective here and instead of focusing on what you want - which seems to be this romantic notion of the beauty of pregnancy and life - you should spend more time considering the very real and genuine concerns your wife has.

    Can't you see how self-defeating that would be? You wanted a family, you wanted children, and because you didn't get enough you could potentially sour the relationship with the ones that you have.


  • #30
    Neyite
    Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,947 Mod ✭✭✭✭Neyite


    Your wife is thinking that she can't have another child, whereas you are thinking that she won't. In her mind she can't. She has her reasons for believing that having a third child would be detrimental to her or her quality of life so she is correct in thinking that she can't have another. You are in the mindset that she could if she wanted to, just won't, so you need to change that mindset.

    Many of us don't get the family we envisaged when first starting out trying for a baby. Some imagine a house full and never get their wish, others may want one and end up with quads. Many others eventually get their wish but at a big personal cost to them. Think of it like a roulette. Your wife is at the point where she's done gambling and wants to walk away with the takings, you on the other hand want to put it all on one last shot even if that means that you lose everything - or rather, she could lose everything for something she doesn't want in the first place.

    I possibly *could* have another child technically but that would likely involve too much in terms of financial, physical, or emotional cost to me, so in my mind I can't have another child.

    I came to terms with the fact we would probably not be having another child about three years ago. At the time I remember it feeling like I needed to grieve that and so I did, for about a year I think. You aren't grieving a child, you are grieving letting go of a future wish or dream you had. So while it's not the loss of a child -and there's no comparison, it's still a painful process in it's own way.

    So grieve if that's what you need. Work on changing the mindset from "she won't" to "she can't". If you can't do that you are going to remain resentful and cause further strain on your relationship which tbh, sounds strained already.

    Hope you find your peace.


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  • #31
    qwerty13
    Registered Users Posts: 1,272 ✭✭✭qwerty13


    Maybe I’m not interpreting this one correctly, but the more I read, I actually think you’re enjoying this: the drama, the (in your eyes) being a martyr, the feeling incredibly sorry for yourself - against all logic.

    Do you actually genuinely believe that you and your wife have equal roles in your family? Or do you have some 1950s throwback idea that she should provide kids and be happy to do so? I just can’t square it in my head. Where’s her autonomy? Where’s her career? Where’s her choice over massive strain on her body? Where’s your involvement with childcare? Perhaps further explanation would help. What are you prepared to do for kid no 3 to happen, to make that your practical task, not that of your wife? How are household duties split? It you are so set on kid no 3, are you prepared to be a stay at home parent until that child starts school? Are you prepared to give up your career should your child (being potentially born at a relatively at risk age) require additional needs?

    It just feels like everything you say is completely notional in terms of the practicalities, and very entitled in terms of the physical, hormonal, emotional and career/self direction in terms of your wife.

    If you really want a 3td child as much as you say, what are YOU doing to mitigate the familial and financial impacts, and to plan for the high risk of a child with additional needs, and/or the impact on your wife physically and emotionally being very high?

    It’s just comes across as though you’re all about the ‘want’, and none about the ‘this is how I’d make it work’. And if - IF - you wife agreed to go along with a 3rd child given all of the physical and hormonal/emotional aspects for her, what are you prepared to contribute? And I don’t mean ‘babysitting’. I mean what real time out of your current routine, life altering things have you committed to, if you so want child no 3? What sacrifices are you personally willing to make? How much of your lifestyle are you willing to change?


  • #32
    tara73
    Registered Users Posts: 2,342 ✭✭✭tara73


    just as a friendly remark, this poster didn't come back a single time in his first thread, he hasn't come back here after countless lenghty replies, and I don't think he will...


  • #33
    wiggle16
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,022 Mod ✭✭✭✭wiggle16


    Mod:

    As has been pointed out, I think this thread has run its course and the OP is unlikely to receive advice that's any different to what's been posted already.

    Just as a reminder, as it was pointed out more than once, the OP is never obliged to reply to the thread or respond to posters.

    Thanks & grma all who posted. Good luck OP.

    Thread locked.


This discussion has been closed.
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