Everest

beauf · 18-05-2019 7:31am

Atoms for Peace wrote: »

True, but at the same time it shouldn't be on the pretence of charity or risk of life to others.

There nothing you do in life that someone hasn't died at. Should we stop doing everything.

People seem to be confusing these big sponsored events with actual charities. I'm surprised people are that naive.

recedite · 18-05-2019 8:42am

gozunda wrote: »

There has been some concerted efforts by the Chinese authorities and others to move or otherwise dispose of bodies along the main climbing routes in recent years. A case in point is Green Boots. Afaik - it is believed that he was disposed of by pushing the body off the mountain. To date the body had certainly not been repatriated to his family

A fitting end for the guy, and where in the world would you find a better "final resting place" anyway?

I really don't see the point in bereaved relatives from Bray jetsetting off to Nepal to recover a body and bring it back to Ireland.
Even if they succeed, the €75K and the countless tonnes of CO2 could be usefully spent elsewhere.

smurgen · 18-05-2019 8:50am

ED E wrote: »

Mayyybe I'm a cold heartless SoB but:

The family are looking for 750k to attempt to recover him. Moving in the TCD circles he does Im sure they'll get it but it strikes me as a very poor use of public generosity. He engaged in a high risk endeavour and it didnt work out. Thats sad but should the charitable efforts of the public be so heavily expended to recover a cadaver? There'll always be a more needy cause if you choose to look for one but this seems very very far down the charitable book of quantum.

Money be better spent helping someone who started life at at a disadvantage through no fault of their own.

Fr_Dougal · 18-05-2019 8:53am

Blazer wrote: »

Mightn't be a scam but looking for 750k to hire a team of sherpas to look over Mt Everest to find a body is absolutely farcical not to mention a complete waste of money.
Don't these people even read about Mt Everest and the other so called 8000 footers?

I’d say Barretstown could make better use of that €750k.

Still waters · 18-05-2019 8:55am

Total nonsense trying to go back and retrieve his body, they'd be better off giving whatever is raised to barretstown and
leaving him up there

Yurt2 · 18-05-2019 9:05am

recedite wrote: »

I really don't see the point in bereaved relatives from Bray jetsetting off to Nepal to recover a body and bring it back to Ireland.

Jetsetting? FFS. They're a family in mourning and shock going to a third world country, not off to Marbella to drink cocktails.

Tokyo · 18-05-2019 9:05am

recedite wrote: »

I really don't see the point in bereaved relatives from Bray jetsetting off to Nepal to recover a body and bring it back to Ireland.

Really?

smurgen wrote: »

Money be better spent helping someone who started life at at a disadvantage through no fault of their own.

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

I’d say Barretstown could make better use of that €750k.

Still waters wrote: »

Total nonsense trying to go back and retrieve his body, they'd be better off giving whatever is raised to barretstown and
leaving him up there

Hmm... hard to imagine why the people who just lost a husband/brother/son aren't acting more rationally and thinking more practically alright....

Whatever peoples thoughts are on the man's reasons for summiting, or the practical implications of recovering him from the mountain, it's important not to lose sight of the fact that someone still received that dreaded two-in-the-morning-phone-call. I very much imagine they are operating in "let's get him home" mode right now, which is natural, if not always feasible.

suicide_circus · 18-05-2019 9:08am

beauf wrote: »

People seem to be confusing these big sponsored events with actual charities. I'm surprised people are that naive.

well yes a lot of people are naive about this and hopefully this case will open a few eyes. Collecting money under the guise of charity "sponsorship" and then giving the small change left over to charity once your high octane holiday of a lifetime is paid for is, to me at least, taking advantage of people's good nature.

inocybe · 18-05-2019 9:15am

I actually feel quite angry about the gofundme. If you've read at all about high altitude climbing, you'd know that retrieving a body from the route at that altitude is nearly impossible, and puts the lives of the people involved at severe risk. That's from the ROUTE. This climber fell at least 500m off the route, it's impossible. Sherpas are not superhuman, as many of them die at altitude as other climbers. It's well known that above 8000m you take your life into your own hands. No-one can rescue you. It's immoral to try to pay people in a poor country to risk their lives, really risk their lives, for the impossible. I understand that grief would make you try everything, but it makes you wonder whether the climber really understood what he was getting in to, given that his family don't seem to.

Slogger Jogger · 18-05-2019 9:19am

This is very sad indeed that a guy has lost his life. Having said that he knew the risks.
I was always sceptical of charity events which involved big adventures - who is actually gaining? Each to their own if you want to contribute to that.
In this case, even if everyone got back safe, would Barrettstown have benefitted much - given the scale of the cost of doing the expedition in the first place?
I feel sorry for the family, its a terrible situation. But I don't think anyone would want others being put at risk in that situation.
And, at the end of the day, any additional funds would be better going to the initial charitable concern.

jeremyj1968 · 18-05-2019 9:19am

ED E wrote: »

Mayyybe I'm a cold heartless SoB but: The family are looking for 750k to attempt to recover him. Moving in the TCD circles he does Im sure they'll get it but it strikes me as a very poor use of public generosity.

I saw this, leading the RTE website this morning and I found it very hard to believe. This is the headline story right across the full page of the RTE website. He did not carry out this task on behalf of the country, is this man a pal of somebody in RTE or why is he getting this coverage?

https://www.rte.ie/news/2019/0518/1050206-family-of-seamus-lawless-launch-fundraising-appeal/

I would ask anybody considering funding this to put their money towards Crumlin's Children's hospital or something more worthy. I think, above all, this sort of reckless behaviour needs to be discouraged.

GalwayGrrrrrl · 18-05-2019 9:21am

inocybe wrote: »

I actually feel quite angry about the gofundme. If you've read at all about high altitude climbing, you'd know that retrieving a body from the route at that altitude is nearly impossible, and puts the lives of the people involved at severe risk. That's from the ROUTE. This climber fell at least 500m off the route, it's impossible. Sherpas are not superhuman, as many of them die at altitude as other climbers. It's well known that above 8000m you take your life into your own hands. No-one can rescue you. It's immoral to try to pay people in a poor country to risk their lives, really risk their lives, for the impossible. I understand that grief would make you try everything, but it makes you wonder whether the climber really understood what he was getting in to, given that his family don't seem to.

I agree. I had a massive rant about this as soon as I saw the go fund me page on the rte Facebook. It’s hard to know how I would act of it was one of my relatives, but surely risking the lives of the recovery team and spending such a huge amount of money isn’t sensible. The climber knew the risks, his wife is a climber too so knew the risks. I’d rather donate some money in his memory to Barrettstown (which I will do today). RIP

judeboy101 · 18-05-2019 9:40am

I'm disgusted that ppl are giving money to retrieve a body putting sherpas lives at risk. If you want to remember the man, give the money to charity in his name. If I had a choice of a hole in the ground with a few mangy flowers in leitrim or frozen for all eternity high up on mount Everest its a no brainer, Nepal here I come.

...Ghost... · 18-05-2019 9:40am

The Tetrarch wrote: »

From a Google search the typical cost of climbing Everest is $45,000.

The cost is a whole lot higher in some cases. Very sad news.

rdwight · 18-05-2019 9:46am

GalwayGrrrrrl wrote: »

I agree. I had a massive rant about this as soon as I saw the go fund me page on the rte Facebook. It’s hard to know how I would act of it was one of my relatives, but surely risking the lives of the recovery team and spending such a huge amount of money isn’t sensible. The climber knew the risks, his wife is a climber too so knew the risks. I’d rather donate some money in his memory to Barrettstown (which I will do today). RIP

Agreed. Just checked and gofundme is at 87k already. Wonder will Barretstown get their 25k.

super_furry · 18-05-2019 9:51am

Don't like being so cold and sharp about it, but he knew the risks he was taking when he was going up there. I don't think anyone else should be asked to risk their lives to retrieve his body.

His poor family must be going through hell, but jaysus what was he at with a child and a pregnant wife at home? At a certain point you have to change your life priorities to make sure you'll be there for the people who need you most.

Solli · 18-05-2019 9:55am

Ger McDonnell fell to his death on K2 while assisting others ten years ago. His family did not endanger others by asking for a recovery operation. Other mountaineers did what they could. RTE covered the story as they should.
The story in this case is revolving around the use of charitable fundraising to support personal adventures and an impossible recovery operation.

shamrock55 · 18-05-2019 9:55am

It's about time they stop people from climbing everest altogether

jackboy · 18-05-2019 9:57am

super_furry wrote: »

His poor family must be going through hell, but jaysus what was he at with a child and a pregnant wife at home? At a certain point you have to change your life priorities to make sure you'll be there for the people who need you most.

I’m sure his wife supported his venture 100% but to leave a child and pregnant wife at home to pursue such a dangerous vanity project is incredibly selfish. I can understand why they want to retrieve the body though, most families would.

timthumbni · 18-05-2019 10:03am

tuxy wrote: »

I believe insurance would cover helicopter rescue(weather permitting) and medical costs.
I don't think any insurance would cover the recovering of cadavers.

That’s surprises me actually. I thought no insurer would be interested in that horse. What would you have to pay for that sort of insurance?

Considering that I’m not technically insured for travelling to a different office in my car insurance I’m wondering what the craic is with climbing Everest.

dudara · 18-05-2019 10:07am

Whatever the ins and outs, he has lost his life and his family & friends, plus the Irish climbing community are grieving. May he Rest In Peace.

banie01 · 18-05-2019 10:12am

I totally understand that the family want to bring home their loved one.
But!
Crowdfunding to raise money to pay other climbers and most likely Sherpa's to risk their lives to bring down the body of a climber from Everest is IMO a bit selfish!
It's fairly well known that above certain heights in mountaineering, that if you die on the mountain...
You stay on the mountain!

I'd also hope it will put a nail in the coffin of "adventure" style charity fundraising.
Having a subsidised once in a lifetime event holiday on the back of a fundraising labelled as charity but when in actuality only a small portion of the money raised goes there is almost fraudulent IMO.

GalwayGrrrrrl · 18-05-2019 10:12am

https://give.everydayhero.com/ie/ireland-on-everest-barretstown
Is this the correct donation page for barrettstown?

rdwight · 18-05-2019 10:14am

What are we like?

gofundme page now at 95k after 14 hours.

To put this in context, the gofundme page for the family of Mikolaj Wilk reached 23k after 11 months. They are the family who were left without a father/husband and a livelihood after witnessing his brutal murder in Cork last year.

Squatter · 18-05-2019 10:24am

Yurt! wrote: »

The RTE article states 75k.

I think it's important to be accurate, as in typical After Hours fashion, there's a confederation of know-it-alls in full swing trying to frame him and his family as greedy and irresponsible.

Stay classy AH.

The RTE newspaper roundup after the 08.00 news stated €750K.

As for being/staying classy, surely that would have been asking the wellwishers and sympathisers to contribute to Barretstown?

Wibbs · 18-05-2019 10:28am

rdwight wrote: »

What are we like?

gofundme page now at 95k after 14 hours.

To put this in context, the gofundme page for the family of Mikolaj Wilk reached 23k after 11 months. They are the family who were left without a father/husband and a livelihood after witnessing his brutal murder in Cork last year.

We're a very contextual and tribal species and all too easily swayed by context and tribal affiliation. One guy is a working class murder victim and not "local", the other is a middle class charity hero who is local, so who gets the attention? Especially from those more likely to have a few quid to fire at the fund.

I mean consider this:

Muahahaha wrote: »

I met Kami Rita Sherpa a few years back at Everest Base Camp,he holds the world record for summits of Everest and is currently on 23 with a whole load of other Sherpas not far behind him on the late teens. You dont go up and down Everest 23 times without accident unless you are a world class mountaineer. He definitely is as are all the climbing Sherpas operating on it.

That man has summited Everest 23 bloody times, a feat no other westerner has come close to and I'd know a few of their names off the top of my head, yet this is the first time I've personally heard the chap's name.

Wibbs · 18-05-2019 10:31am

Squatter wrote: »

The RTE newspaper roundup after the 08.00 news stated €750K.

As for being/staying classy, surely that would have been asking the wellwishers and sympathisers to contribute to Barretstown?

Indeed. That fund currently nearly at 90,000 euro would be better served being donated directly to the charities he was representing. That would be the noble thing and a far better memorial to help people who are alive and struggling. I have some hope that sense will prevail, but not much at the moment.

Slogger Jogger · 18-05-2019 10:32am

I've seen the GoFundMe link shared on social media this morning with the bring him home tagline. Its very emotive but without the context of the risks for those involved. Again, each to their own if you want to donate to that. I'd prefer to donate to the preferred good cause. Personally I believe the GoFundMe stuff is ill-conceived and many things you see on GoFundMe are debatable.

18-05-2019 10:32am

rdwight wrote: »

What are we like?

gofundme page now at 95k after 14 hours.

To put this in context, the gofundme page for the family of Mikolaj Wilk reached 23k after 11 months. They are the family who were left without a father/husband and a livelihood after witnessing his brutal murder in Cork last year.

Yet 4 of them could only raise 7,450 for the cause they were risking their lives for. Their priorities are all wrong. Family first.

Still waters · 18-05-2019 10:36am

rdwight wrote: »

What are we like?

gofundme page now at 95k after 14 hours.

To put this in context, the gofundme page for the family of Mikolaj Wilk reached 23k after 11 months. They are the family who were left without a father/husband and a livelihood after witnessing his brutal murder in Cork last year.

people are nothing more than sheep, fools and their money and all that ... I'm sure it'll be great comfort to his children that he lived to see his dream fulfilled, no graduation, no walk down the aisle with his daughter, no more family holidays, men driven like this are selfish and it is mostly men, what's wrong when a man becomes a father to settle down and focus on rearing and being their for them, what drives this type of person to do this type of thing and a young family at home.

And please don't use the excuse that it's in man's nature to explore, there is nothing left to explore, except the deepest ocean, nowhere on earth is inaccessible now, it's all been done, i could understand if it was to the betterment of society if he had lost his life in some distant inhospitable part of the world but to lose it on a guided tour up a mountain on the pretence of charity is nothing more than folly

Sonny noggs · 18-05-2019 10:52am

If I wasn’t suspicious of the Charity Industry before, I certainly am now. Another charity to add to my list of DNF. Do Not Fund.

vicwatson · 18-05-2019 10:55am

This is probably the most vile thread I’ve ever seen in AH, for many different reasons.

scoey · 18-05-2019 10:55am

The national broadcaster shouldn't be advertising the gofundme if such a mission would put the lives of others at risk etc.

PokeHerKing · 18-05-2019 10:55am

750k is quite the lofty target. I'd say his death in service with trinity is somewhere in the region of half a million if they need it.

Squatter · 18-05-2019 11:02am

Sonny noggs wrote: »

If I wasn’t suspicious of the Charity Industry before, I certainly am now. Another charity to add to my list of DNF. Do Not Fund.

An kindly elderly neighbour of mine who was surviving on the State pension made the mistake of contributing to the said charity - and others - some years ago.

She was subsequently inundated with reams of expensively printed letters, brochures and other heart-string pulling pieces of literature from each of the charities, on a regular basis.

She eventually managed to get rid of the vultures by returning their letters unopened with "deceased" written on them. But it took her a very long time to get rid of the more persistent ones.

whiskeyman · 18-05-2019 11:07am

vicwatson wrote: »

This is probably the most vile thread I’ve ever seen in AH, for many different reasons.

I think it's one of the best.

We are seeing real thoughts of our nations people on an emotionally charged news item.

Interesting to see how this is portrayed in the media is very different to people's thoughts.

RasTa · 18-05-2019 11:08am

It took them 60+ years to find Mallory. Surprised they are trying to find his body. Waste of time and money, all donations should be given to the charity he was climbing for.

Cold? Yes but that's the climbing world and any experienced climber should be telling his wife that it's a waste of resources

meeeeh · 18-05-2019 11:09am

I have mixed feelings about mountaineering. Coming from a country at the edge of Alps I know some people gave deep love four mountains. Eventually they end up doing 8000m climbs but thats after years if climbing lower peaks because they like standing on the top of the mountain. I was never big into climbing and yet even I felt the satisfaction when you climb somewhere a bit higher and look into the distance. It's completely different if you drive there or get a cable lift. Anyway seasoned mountaineers are usually well prepared but I suspect that even they sometimes ignore the risks because of cost and hard work that goes into the exhibition. But they are usually better prepared for the conditions. But it can turn into pushing for records and climbing parts nobody did before. A great example of sheer obsession and frankly madness is in the link below. Despite the climbing skills there is nothing great in behaviour like that.

https://rockandice.com/people/the-audacious-legacy-of-tomaz-humar/?cn-reloaded=1

However even worse are people with bucket list who think climbing Everest is just another thick along parachute jumping and shark diving. That's just selfish and stupid.

I came accross sponsored climbs before but I think charity angle is less common in central Europe. I think there is understanding people climb mountains because they want to and for no other reason. Representing it as charity thing would be considered cynical.

Nobelium · 18-05-2019 11:17am

I came accross sponsored climbs before but I think charity angle is less common in central Europe. I think there is understanding people climb mountains because they want to and for no other reason. Representing it as charity thing would be considered cynical.

Agreed.

A real hero is not some selfish bored thrill seeking holidaymaker with too much time and money who climbs Everest for the buzz, but the many forgotten Irish people and their carer's that quietly get on with climbing an Everest every day of their lives.

Nobelium · 18-05-2019 11:21am

Mr Lawless had attempted the mammoth climb to raise up to €25,000 for Barretstown, a charity dedicated to seriously ill children and their families.

I wonder what that charity would be able to do with € 750,000 ?

Atoms for Peace · 18-05-2019 11:23am

vicwatson wrote: »

This is probably the most vile thread I’ve ever seen in AH, for many different reasons.

While I believe there is something admirable and heroic about pushing life to the limits; I despise the growing trend of self entitlement and lack of taking responsibility for ones actions. Yes its a tragedy but so is life in general, if you die doing what you love fair play but don't expect crocodile tears or funding from the general public.

18-05-2019 11:27am

The Tetrarch wrote: »

From a Google search the typical cost of climbing Everest is $45,000.

how does that work with the charity thing - you raise 70,000 k and the charity gets 25,000 and you get a free Everest trip?

18-05-2019 11:28am

RasTa wrote: »

It took them 60+ years to find Mallory. Surprised they are trying to find his body. Waste of time and money, all donations should be given to the charity he was climbing for.

Cold? Yes but that's the climbing world and any experienced climber should be telling his wife that it's a waste of resources

they leave the bodies on Everest don't they? above a certain height anyways as simply too dangerous a mission to bring down a corpse

Mena Mitty · 18-05-2019 11:28am

glasso wrote: »

how does that work with the charity thing - you raise 70,000 k and the charity gets 25,000 and you get a free Everest trip?

Sometimes called an ego trip.

beauf · 18-05-2019 11:45am

Sonny noggs wrote: »

If I wasn’t suspicious of the Charity Industry before, I certainly am now. Another charity to add to my list of DNF. Do Not Fund.

We've had massive scandals with charities for as long as they've existed.

Similarly lots of personal adventures, sports activities, expeditions pretty much anything is funded by looking for donations.

How anyone is unaware of this before baffles me. People must walk around in a daze.

B0jangles · 18-05-2019 11:47am

His poor family can't really be blamed for being desperate to get him home - they are hardly thinking rationally at this point, but it's not really on for the national broadcaster to publicize a fundraising campaign for something that's so likely to end in failure and could quite possibly to lead to even more deaths.

Raise the money for the charity he named - no better way to remember him.

meeeeh · 18-05-2019 11:51am

beauf wrote: »

We've had massive scandals with charities for as long as they've existed.

Similarly lots of personal adventures, sports activities, expeditions pretty much anything is funded by looking for donations.

How anyone is unaware of this before baffles me. People must walk around in a daze.

Of course they are funded by donations and a lot of professional climbers would afterwards do talks, offer live stream of expeditions, write books and create buzz around their corporate sponsors. That's how they finance their expeditions. But they don't need to pretend they are doing it for charity. I think we all know charity angle us exploited like that but that doesn't mean we have to like it.

beauf · 18-05-2019 11:53am

whiskeyman wrote: »

I think it's one of the best.

We are seeing real thoughts of our nations people on an emotionally charged news item.

Interesting to see how this is portrayed in the media is very different to people's thoughts.

You have the tabloid journalism looking for anything that gets attention.

You have people oblivious to how the world works taking the bait despite not knowing anything about any of it.

beauf · 18-05-2019 11:56am

meeeeh wrote: »

..... I think we all know charity angle us exploited like that but that doesn't mean we have to like it.

This thread suggests people have no idea...

adox · 18-05-2019 12:04pm

I was always under the impression that rescuing bodies from Everest beyond a certain height was a near impossibility and hugely risky at lower levels.

Is there no one to advise the family on the realities? The go fund me page has hit six figures. Can that money be returned?

I have no climbing to experience whatsoever but was always fascinated by people wanting to climb the likes of Everest. The amount of work that is prepped for them, ropes ladders etc before they try and summit. The human traffic jams at times on the mountain. It all kind of took the romance out of it. Having said that, the sheer height and danger of it never lessened despite the climbers more or less being handheld up and down. Having said that I have nothing bit admiration for people who do manage it.

It all puts into perspective what an amazing feat it was by Tenzing Norgay and Edmund Hillary.

It’s a very sad story. A hugely risky undertaking that has ended in tragedy. RIP to the climber and his family. I just hope that some common sense is brought to this sooner rather than later. If his remains are most likely unrecoverable then the family should be informed as soon as possible.

As stated at the start I am no climber and have no climbing experience so my opinions are purely based on reading and viewing and I have no real world experience in any of it.

Everest

Comments