Farmer decries "snowflake" veterinary students

mariaalice · 16-05-2019 8:06pm

Not snowflake exactly, but maybe if they were 18/19/20 they are the first generation entering college/adulthood after being raised in a bubble of social media and over parenting and never having encountered the rough and tumble of real life.

The complaining to the authorities about the farmer and vet who gave them work expierence is interesting in its self.

mad muffin · 16-05-2019 8:11pm

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again.

What’s the point of rearing animals that will be slaughtered for meat humanely?

“Here you go little piggies. Little calf’s. Little lambs. Little chickens. Go frolic freely in the fields.”

“Oh this is such a wonderful free life we have here chaps!”

“Farmer always talks to us so sweetly. So gently.”

“I do love my life so much. Here, frolicking freely!”

“WE WANTS OUR MEATS NOW… TIME TO DIE!!!

“I DONT WANT TO DIE!!” “PLEASE FARMER! PLEASE DONT KILL US!!!”

OR

“My god… this is miserable life we have here all cooped up in darkness. Never going out”

“Farmer always shouting abuse at us…”

“TIME TO DIE!!!” MEATS BACK ON THE MENU BOYS!”

“Sweet death”

Billy86 · 16-05-2019 8:22pm

whisky_galore wrote: »

Novelty YouTube clips for entertainment purposes.
You could probably find mongooses herding llamas but it doesn't make it a practical solution.

Congrats, you can Google things, and for your next trick?

And yet there those pigs are... being herded like a dog... and responding to noise exactly like my initial (intended as lighthearted) point was.

Also, for further reference if you would like to educate yourself a little.

https://petmaven.io/whydodogs/breeds/why-do-border-collies-herd-_ME57KD4X0-OrUXVdfNyAw/

Herding dogs, in particular, were specifically helpful for the purpose of controlling the movement of large numbers of herds comprising animals such as sheep, cattle, geese, goats, and pigs.

https://www.dogster.com/lifestyle/which-are-the-best-farm-dogs

Another common type of canine associated with bucolic life is the herding dog. The term may conjure pastoral poems and idyllic landscape paintings that depict a lone shepherd overlooking a field under a summer sky with a trusty dog by his side. It’s a misnomer to associate them exclusively with cattle or sheep, though, since their herds and flocks are just as likely to be populated by chickens, ducks, goats, llamas, and pigs.

But what would a clueless Dubliner like me know? Here are some farmers accounts of using dogs to herd sheep... and chickens... and ducks... and geese: https://www.homesteadingtoday.com/threads/herding-pigs.475335/

Is it done regularly? No. Did I ever say it was? No. So sorry to burst your bubble here champ, but pigs do indeed - as I said - respond to noise and herding.

caff · 16-05-2019 8:25pm

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

I honestly thing out of many of the animals we eat and farm actively pigs get very poor treatment. We will go out of our way and have options to buy free range poultry, grass fed beef etc. yet there is no such options available on pork products. Yet these animals are arguably more intelligent than dogs, yet are confined to small pens their entire lives.

Free range pork should be an option.

Famrers market near me do it, its only on Saturday mornings happy hog farm. Agree supermarkets should push it, you'd think they would try push premium free range pork for the upsell price

mariaalice · 16-05-2019 8:29pm

caff wrote: »

Famrers market near me do it, its only on Saturday mornings happy hog farm. Agree supermarkets should push it, you'd think they would try push premium free range pork for the upsell price

`
The local Supervalue near me use to do free range prok but discontinued it becasue they said there was no demand. it was http://saltersfarm.ie/

Sheep breeder · 16-05-2019 8:31pm

ganmo wrote: »

how does he like the margins on beef?

Ah sure it’s tripled and the only show in town?.

_Brian · 16-05-2019 8:42pm

mad muffin wrote: »

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again.

What’s the point of rearing animals that will be slaughtered for meat humanely?

“Here you go little piggies. Little calf’s. Little lambs. Little chickens. Go frolic freely in the fields.”

“Oh this is such a wonderful free life we have here chaps!”

“Farmer always talks to us so sweetly. So gently.”

“I do love my life so much. Here, frolicking freely!”

“WE WANTS OUR MEATS NOW… TIME TO DIE!!!

“I DONT WANT TO DIE!!” “PLEASE FARMER! PLEASE DONT KILL US!!!”

OR

“My god… this is miserable life we have here all cooped up in darkness. Never going out”

“Farmer always shouting abuse at us…”

“TIME TO DIE!!!” MEATS BACK ON THE MENU BOYS!”

“Sweet death”

So your advocating treating g them badly so death will be a happy release??
You need help, that’s monsterous!

_Brian · 16-05-2019 8:44pm

mariaalice wrote: »

`
The local Supervalue near me use to do free range prok but discontinued it becasue they said there was no demand. it was http://saltersfarm.ie/

Brilliant example of people getting the food they want.

If consumers vote with their shopping basket farming would follow.

Free range or organic, whatever you continually buy farming will develop to match.

gozunda · 16-05-2019 8:59pm

mad muffin wrote: »

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. What’s the point of rearing animals that will be slaughtered for meat humanely?“Here you go little piggies. Little calf’s. Little lambs. Little chickens. Go frolic freely in the fields.”“Oh this is such a wonderful free life we have here chaps!”“Farmer always talks to us so sweetly. So gently.”“I do love my life so much. Here, frolicking freely!”“WE WANTS OUR MEATS NOW… TIME TO DIE!!!“I DONT WANT TO DIE!!” “PLEASE FARMER! PLEASE DONT KILL US!!!”OR“My god… this is miserable life we have here all cooped up in darkness. Never going out”“Farmer always shouting abuse at us…”“TIME TO DIE!!!” MEATS BACK ON THE MENU BOYS!”“Sweet death”

Veterinary student? Or just one of the shouters in caps?

I'll say this again because some seem genuinely short of understanding.

Animals have eaten meat since the dawn of time. Humans are also animals. We are now the dominant animals and have learned to farm animals that we once used to hunt. Farming allows us do this in a way which means we no longer have to chase animals over cliffs with spears etc. Rather animals are reared, fed and protected from predation and diseases that would face in the wild. They are killed yes - under highly controlled and regulated conditions. And no its got nothing to do with slavery or murder - that is a non sequitur. If you mean we should maintain high standards of animal welfare well I wholeheartedly agree.
Some humans choose not to eat meat and that's fine - others do - thats how it is.

MrMusician18 · 16-05-2019 8:59pm

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

By what standard?

The price the farmer gets for it is too low, certainly, but this fellow isn't walking around with holes in his pockets.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/goodman-company-owner-paid-little-tax-on-52m-profit-1.2186788

There's no good reason why farmers cannot be paid a fair price for meat and tillage production, without fleecing the consumer either. Especially given that we have as powerful and (potentially) useful tool as CAP.

ABP made a profit of €52m. Say they made no profit and redistributed it all to suckler farmers. That would be a payment per farmer of €820. Yes it's a nice sum of money, but it's hardly going to make a major difference to the viability of farming.

Funny, I hear the odd farmer spout anti EU nonsense and whine about the environmental rules. They ought to be thanking their lucky stars for it because there is no way the Irish Government would be able to politically sustain the subsidies of the size they get through CAP.

16-05-2019 9:14pm

MrMusician18 wrote: »

ABP made a profit of €52m. Say they made no profit and redistributed it all to suckler farmers. That would be a payment per farmer of €820. Yes it's a nice sum of money, but it's hardly going to make a major difference to the viability of farming.

if you think 52 million euro represents the profit of ABP, I'd like to sell you some magic beans.

ABP is extremely secretive about its profits, and as is heavily implied in that article, use an imaginative array of legal devices, including inter company loans, to avoid tax by getting its profits down as low as possible. Many large organisations do this, but not all are quite to aggressive or opaque.

partyguinness · 16-05-2019 9:15pm

ganmo wrote: »

ya but they only told porkies

That is shocking but I guess I walked into it.

gozunda · 16-05-2019 9:16pm

MrMusician18 wrote: »

...

Funny, I hear the odd farmer spout anti EU nonsense and whine about the environmental rules. They ought to be thanking their lucky stars for it because there is no way the Irish Government would be able to politically sustain the subsidies of the size they get through CAP.

Funny, I'm hearing the odd plant food activist spouting anti-animal farming nonsense and whining about farmers receiving subsidies and god knows what. Tbh they ought to be thanking their lucky stars that lots of sectors recieve subsidies because there is no way it would be possible to sustain the level of funding that Irish industry, employees and infrastructure etc etc receive from various sources without subsidies. But hey don't let any of that stop the ranting

ZX7R · 16-05-2019 9:43pm

I can't believe the students didn't bring there own boots ....

_Brian · 16-05-2019 9:46pm

ZX7R wrote: »

I can't believe the students didn't bring there own boots ....

I imagine allot of pig farms supply them to visitors to keep biohazards away. Particularly these students who may be visiting a number of pig enterprises.

Your Face · 16-05-2019 9:47pm

I have shouted at many animals.

ZX7R · 16-05-2019 9:49pm

_Brian wrote: »

I imagine allot of pig farms supply them to visitors to keep biohazards away. Particularly these students who may be visiting a number of pig enterprises.

Would they not just walk trough the disinfectant did like everyone else and wash them.

gozunda · 16-05-2019 10:37pm

Your Face wrote: »

I have shouted at many animals.

Quite a few animals have shouted at me tbh ...

16-05-2019 10:46pm

ZX7R wrote: »

I can't believe the students didn't bring there own boots ....

If you had half-a-million or a million quid's worth of pigs in sheds, would you trust a 17 or 18-year-old to clean his own boots and prevent serious financial loss to you?!

Hedgelayer · 16-05-2019 10:46pm

That fckn raging bull over the road was roaring again last night l think he's a bad bastard, waking up half the cuntree side.

Its like the 12 days of cristmas here, im being driven insane with all the traumatised anemels and burds freaking out.

The bat's are flying through window screens, the owls are dimented.

Kan sum of those luvley anemel persons come and kalm doun the bull.

He's gon nuts.

Any vegans willing to volunteer for a night out in the pissing wain in the Burren to calm down Oscar the bull.

He understands Eyetalian and Fwench...

Ill give ye a fwy up in the morning...

ZX7R · 16-05-2019 10:47pm

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

If you had half-a-million quid's worth of pigs in sheds, would you trust a 17 or 18-year-old to clean his own boots and prevent serious financial loss to you?!

I'd make sure they would part of there training

16-05-2019 10:51pm

ZX7R wrote: »

I'd make sure they would part of there training

That's another thing, why do pig farmers agree to allow these students on their farms anyway?

I've only ever heard vets express revulsion about those places, many of them seem to get the hell out of there as soon as their duty is done, and it's only a few students for maybe a couple of weeks in the year. Hardly benefits the pig farmers..?

sk8erboii · 16-05-2019 10:51pm

Hedgelayer wrote: »

That fckn raging bull over the road was roaring again last night l think he's a bad bastard, waking up half the cuntree side.

Its like the 12 days of cristmas here, im being driven insane with all the traumatised anemels and burds freaking out.

The bat's are flying through window screens, the owls are dimented.

Kan sum of those luvley anemel persons come and kalm doun the bull.

He's gon nuts.

Any vegans willing to volunteer for a night out in the pissing wain in the Burren to calm down Oscar the bull.

He understands Eyetalian and Fwench...

Ill give ye a fwy up in the morning...

is this james joyce?

bb12 · 16-05-2019 10:56pm

subsidies are given to farmers for one reason only...to keep food cheap on the shelves for the masses to afford. if people had to pay what it actually costs to produce that food, they'd be going hungry. and what happens when people go hungry? revolutions happen. every government on the planet knows this, which is why they pay subsidies in the first place. farmers would be plenty happy without them because they'd get much better prices for their produce.

livestock farmers take great care of their animals because happy animals produce better food. do people even know that every carcass is graded after slaughter? if the meat is not a good quality it gets a lower grade and the farmer gets paid less for it. so its in every farmers interest to produce top quality animals to get the best price possible. the only way to achieve this is to have happy healthy animals. antibiotics are now being a lot more strictly regulated so you have to try even harder to keep them from getting ill. locked up
miserable animals are not going to thrive and achieve the prices needed to get them to slaughter. grass fed are the ultimate because the animals can roam and build up their muscles and generally stay healthier away from disease that tends to spread in shed systems.

the amount of fake information and false news spread by a certain cohort at the moment is staggering. even more staggering are the blind believers that follow them.

16-05-2019 10:56pm

sk8erboii wrote: »

is this james joyce?

James Joyce after mixing his Orthedrine with his absinthe.

Up to bed with you, that man.

Hedgelayer · 16-05-2019 10:59pm

sk8erboii wrote: »

is this james joyce?

No its " Oscars gone Wild"

Did you not read my post.

The bulls name is Oscar.

Close enough though, good lad you nearly got a few marks... 2 points for the effort and creative thinking

Assetbacked · 16-05-2019 11:00pm

sk8erboii wrote: »

is this james joyce?

The Joyce part is probably right.

ZX7R · 16-05-2019 11:02pm

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

That's another thing, why do pig farmers agree to allow these students on their farms anyway?

I've only ever heard vets express revulsion about those places, many of them seem to get the hell out of there as soon as their duty is done, and it's only a few students for maybe a couple of weeks in the year. Hardly benefits the pig farmers..?

Probably get a payment from the college or uni
I know it's work experience be that would be my guess
Also they have to learn somewhere

16-05-2019 11:05pm

ZX7R wrote: »

Probably get a payment from the college or uni
I know it's work experience be that would be my guess
Also they have to learn somewhere

That's true. We have a farm down home and because someone there works in that profession and also lives on the farm, we have vet students come and stay during calving.

There's no payment to us, though I don't know if they get paid themselves. I don't think so.

And by the way, about country vets vs townies. From what I've seen from the ones staying with us, it's the townies who are most willing to learn, think about problems with originality, and they have none of the bad habits we were raised with on farms! Just saying!

They're also blank canvasses. Even the bucket of steam trick never fails.

whisky_galore · 17-05-2019 2:29am

Billy86 wrote: »

And yet there those pigs are... being herded like a dog... and responding to noise exactly like my initial (intended as lighthearted) point was.

Also, for further reference if you would like to educate yourself a little.

https://petmaven.io/whydodogs/breeds/why-do-border-collies-herd-_ME57KD4X0-OrUXVdfNyAw/

https://www.dogster.com/lifestyle/which-are-the-best-farm-dogs

But what would a clueless Dubliner like me know? Here are some farmers accounts of using dogs to herd sheep... and chickens... and ducks... and geese: https://www.homesteadingtoday.com/threads/herding-pigs.475335/

Is it done regularly? No. Did I ever say it was? No. So sorry to burst your bubble here champ, but pigs do indeed - as I said - respond to noise and herding.

Don't need any "education" from a smartarse Dub.

whisky_galore · 17-05-2019 2:31am

mad muffin wrote: »

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again.

What’s the point of rearing animals that will be slaughtered for meat humanely?

“Here you go little piggies. Little calf’s. Little lambs. Little chickens. Go frolic freely in the fields.”

“Oh this is such a wonderful free life we have here chaps!”

“Farmer always talks to us so sweetly. So gently.”

“I do love my life so much. Here, frolicking freely!”

“WE WANTS OUR MEATS NOW… TIME TO DIE!!!

“I DONT WANT TO DIE!!” “PLEASE FARMER! PLEASE DONT KILL US!!!”

OR

“My god… this is miserable life we have here all cooped up in darkness. Never going out”

“Farmer always shouting abuse at us…”

“TIME TO DIE!!!” MEATS BACK ON THE MENU BOYS!”

“Sweet death”

Animals don't think that deeply and ponder about what situations they're in unless it's a Walt Disney production.

_Brian · 17-05-2019 7:40am

whisky_galore wrote: »

Animals don't think that deeply and ponder about what situations they're in unless it's a Walt Disney production.

Yep.
Real vegan trick, transfer human level emotions into animals so more people have a bleeding heart over their slaughter. It’s wrong, and a bit stupid.

markodaly · 17-05-2019 7:41am

whisky_galore wrote: »

Would you rather rural Ireland be turned into ranch type farming, or a depopulated wasteland? Or a theme park with thatched cottages for the enjoyment of city folks? Would you rather your food be shipped in from Brazil or Israel ?

Yes, because it has to be either or, right?

I love these false equivalences and strawman arguments, favored by rural Ireland and farmers.

"Buy our beef as if you don't you are a Vegan (oh the horror) and something something Brazillian beef something rainforest"!!

Eh, how about I reduce my beef intake and seek sustainable alternatives?

whisky_galore · 17-05-2019 7:45am

markodaly wrote: »

Eh, how about I reduce my beef intake and seek sustainable alternatives?

Knock yourself out. Just don't wreck our heads whining on about it.

inforfun · 17-05-2019 7:49am

neris wrote: »

people know where their meats come from they just dont want to think about it. Alot of the younger generation are turning in to a bunch of little ideological group think pussies who cant stand hardship or anything that doesnt agree with their fluffy all is nice with the world type of thinking

And are too stupid to understand what their actions can have for consequences.

Earlier this week in The Netherlands:
https://www.pigprogress.net/Sows/Articles/2019/5/New-type-of-welfarist-protest-Occupying-pig-houses-427317E/

markodaly · 17-05-2019 7:52am

whisky_galore wrote: »

Knock yourself out. Just don't wreck our heads whining on about it.

Thank you, I will.

Can you answer me why farmers called Leo Varadker a Vegan two weeks ago?
Why are they so insecure?

whelan2 · 17-05-2019 7:56am

_Brian wrote: »

I think there is a free range pig farm in Louth where you can buy their products online.

There's one in meath the whole hoggs they have a shop in lobinstown County meath. Farm based near slane.

whisky_galore · 17-05-2019 7:57am

markodaly wrote: »

Thank you, I will.

Can you answer me why farmers called Leo Varadker a Vegan two weeks ago?
Why are they so insecure?

Why don't you hunt one of these farmers down and demand an explanation if it causes you so much concern?

The Tetrarch · 17-05-2019 8:10am

Feisar wrote: »

By the fact that 600 grams of mince costs about €4.50.

I reads that as mice. :pac:

17-05-2019 8:17am

_Brian wrote: »

Yep.
Real vegan trick, transfer human level emotions into animals so more people have a bleeding heart over their slaughter. It’s wrong, and a bit stupid.

Wow.

Calling all dog and cat owners stupid seems a bit silly to me.

Owners that consider their dogs or cats part of the family.

Owners that are willing to go into debt to have their dogs or cats treated when they are sick or injured.

Owners that take the time to shed a tear and bury their dog or cat when it dies.

Owners that grow up and fondly remember their family dog or cat for the rest of their lives.

Owners that talk about personality traits like calling a dog sulky or grumpy or happy or clever.

I can only imagine you feel this way because of how you depend on people to detach emotionally so you can continue to earn money.

I think that’s very sad. I also think it’s very sad that you see it as ‘a vegan trick’. I just think that’s how people are. Not just vegans.

gozunda · 17-05-2019 8:44am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Wow.
Calling all dog and cat owners stupid seems a bit silly to me.

Owners that consider their dogs or cats part of the family. Owners that are willing to go into debt to have their dogs or cats treated when they are sick or injured. Owners that take the time to shed a tear and bury their dog or cat when it dies. Owners that grow up and fondly remember their family dog or cat for the rest of their lives. Owners that talk about personality traits like calling a dog sulky or grumpy or happy or clever.

I can only imagine you feel this way because of how you depend on people to detach emotionally so you can continue to earn money. I think that’s very sad. I also think it’s very sad that you see it as ‘a vegan trick’. I just think that’s how people are. Not just vegans.

Sure. Yeah that's what he said. :rolleyes: A bit silly is about right...

Meanwhile in the US. Animal rights nutters take people's pets and kill them because they believe keeping domestic animals is akin to slavery and animals are 'better' off dead. You couldn't make it up tbh. Sick cnuts.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/killing-animals-petas-open-secret_b_59e78243e4b0e60c4aa36711

_Brian · 17-05-2019 8:46am

Deleted User wrote: »

Wow.

Calling all dog and cat owners stupid seems a bit silly to me.

Owners that consider their dogs or cats part of the family.

Owners that are willing to go into debt to have their dogs or cats treated when they are sick or injured.

Owners that take the time to shed a tear and bury their dog or cat when it dies.

Owners that grow up and fondly remember their family dog or cat for the rest of their lives.

Owners that talk about personality traits like calling a dog sulky or grumpy or happy or clever.

I can only imagine you feel this way because of how you depend on people to detach emotionally so you can continue to earn money.

I think that’s very sad. I also think it’s very sad that you see it as ‘a vegan trick’. I just think that’s how people are. Not just vegans.

I can care for animals without pretending they are little people. Cats, dogs, chickens, pigs, cattle, all well cared for here without pretending they are little people.

And yes, applying human traits to animal treatment is indeed a vegan propaganda trick they use all the time. There’s a difference in comforting an animal with the calm sound of your voice to vegans banging on about animals walking round scared thinking about being slaughtered any minute or stupidly talking about cows being raped and murdered, both terms to describe something terrible that happens only a human.

Mrsmum · 17-05-2019 8:51am

I think if you only spend a few days on a farm, especially for the very first time in your life, you will probably see farm practices as harsh and unnecessary. Spend a year there and learn all aspects of farming 24 hours 365 days (as opposed to 9 to 5 all nice and clean and tidy)and you'll understand why things are done the way they are, what works and what doesn't. Multiply that by years and years and you'll really know your stuff. There are also occasions when a fresh pair of eyes may suggest a few good innovations and that's a good thing too.
But most vets now want to deal with cute dogs and cats and fluffy bunnies. I'm not so sure it's animals they love so much as a tiny cohort of animals that accommodate an easy lifestyle. Heaven forbid that a vet of all things with all that animal medicine training would have to go to a mucky farm at four in the morning in the middle of winter to help an animal.

17-05-2019 8:52am

_Brian wrote: »

I can care for animals without pretending they are little people. Cats, dogs, chickens, pigs, cattle, all well cared for here without pretending they are little people.

And yes, applying human traits to animal treatment is indeed a vegan propaganda trick they use all the time. There’s a difference in comforting an animal with the calm sound of your voice to vegans banging on about animals walking round scared thinking about being slaughtered any minute or stupidly talking about cows being raped and murdered, both terms to describe something terrible that happens only a human.

No idea why you’re banging on about vegans.

I just pointed out that I don’t agree with you.

I don’t think all humans are stupid for applying human traits to the animals they love.

I understand when a dog is happy or sad. That doesn’t make me, or any other humans, stupid. Well not in my eyes.

But it’s ok if you feel that way. We are not all the same.

markodaly · 17-05-2019 8:52am

whisky_galore wrote: »

Why don't you hunt one of these farmers down and demand an explanation if it causes you so much concern?

They are too busy protesting around the country to catch.

whisky_galore · 17-05-2019 8:55am

markodaly wrote: »

They are too busy protesting around the country to catch.

Yeah that's right, they protest every day of the week, don't they? Bless their little cotton socks.

_Brian · 17-05-2019 9:00am

whisky_galore wrote: »

Yeah that's right, they protest every day of the week, don't they? Bless their little cotton socks.

Nice bus trip, free placards, hang sandwiches, who wouldn’t donit every day.

17-05-2019 9:24am

sk8erboii wrote: »

is this james joyce?

More like Bwendan Been.

Danzy · 17-05-2019 9:29am

I had one come out, patting a 740kg bullock on the head before starting to climb in behind it, after I had already told them the animal was volatile.

If she had gone in ahe would have been kicked to pieces.

A good vet all the same but needs to wise up if she wants to make 25.

Danzy · 17-05-2019 9:36am

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Would you blame them. Most vets care about animals. Farmers don’t.

Your Lordship hasn't even met a farmer?

Farmer decries "snowflake" veterinary students

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