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Misbehaving man - where to draw the line?
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20-01-2012 2:07pm#1Hi folks,
I’m in my early 20’s and am in a long-distance relationship (1 ½ years, long distance since the beginning). My only other serious relationship before this was tumultuous, to say the least. It lasted 6 months, and the ex cheated on me with his ex after 3 months. Yes, I stayed and I’m not sure why – I think because I was incredibly stubborn and determined to make it work no matter what. End result: Serious jealousy issues.
My current boyfriend was not aware of these jealousy issues until about 6 months into our relationship. He had been seeing two girls casually before he met me and he dumped them both after meeting me, before we were actually “in a relationship”. I didn’t know about either of them until 6 months in when I found out he was still in touch with them, cue major panic on my part – I freaked out and he cut contact with them. I did explain that I’d been cheated on before where an ex-girlfriend was involved so I thought he understood.
About a month ago, I discovered that a female friend of his that lives far away from him, had been visiting his city and crashed at his place. In his bed. With him. Cue another freak-out. He claims that he didn’t realise it would hurt me so much, that he’s not attracted to her in any way, that she slept on one side of the bed and he on the other, that it could just as easily been one of his male friends etc.
When I found out, I tried to break up with him, but not because I believe he cheated on me. My concern was that, being aware of my previous experience and jealousy issues, he went and did something that he must have known would hurt me, and tried to hide it (“to avoid hurting me”). It’s also a factor that the jealousy thing is a recurrent argument and it’s incredibly stressful for us both. On the one hand, I feel he shouldn’t have to suffer my craziness, on the other hand, he’s provoked it!
We didn’t break up in the end. I love him and he put up a fight, so I took it back. I don’t even think I ever really wanted to actually break up, maybe I just needed him to reassure me that he didn’t want to?
I’m extremely confused. I can’t talk to my friends because frankly, it embarrasses me the way he’s behaved, and I’m afraid they’ll tell me it’s unacceptable and that I should get out.
What would you do?0
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Male opinion here.
Assuming he's being truthful about the bed sharing thing you need to see if you can find a common ground between what he's very comfortable with and you're extremely uncomfortable with.
Personally, I loathe jealousy and if I were in his position I would probably already have broken up with you.0 -
Im kinda in same situation,although with a husband who im on the verge of leaving.We had issues last year when i found texts to another girl on his phone(flirty,but not explicit).He swore blind it was only a laugh but its a recurring theme.He went out last week to his mates(both their birthdays where in days of each other) so it ended up being a four day session and when he came home i found out there had been girls there also.Once again swears blind he only went up for a session,blah blah but i dont know when enough is enough.I,like you had made my position clear on what was acceptable and what wasnt and im as easy going as they come(he often stays with mates for days on end while i take care of our kids,etc) but i dont know if i have MUG written all over me.I dont like being paranoid but i think if theres a suspiscion there,theres a reason for it.For me,sharing a bed with a friend is over the line.Was there drink involved?I dont tell friends or family the whole truth either cos i think i know what they'd say.That in itself says something!!0
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Why couldn't either of them sleep on the couch/ floor? Sharing a bed would be extremely inappropriate in my view. Regardless of his lack of attraction towards her, he should've had more respect for you than to do that.0
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I'm pretty sure he didn't cheat because if he did why would he even tell you about sharing the bed? Maybe he's totally innocent and just quite naive.
Don't be blaming yourself that your a jealous person and over reacting, I think most people would react like that because it's very inappropriate but I honestly can't tell you what to do, it's a tough call.
Edit: Oops read it wrong, your saying you discovered this (how?) and he tried to hide it? Yeah I'd think you'd be best to cut him loose, especially a long distance relationship, you'll end up paranoid the whole time and it's not worth it imo0 -
You say he 'tried to hide' the fact that he slept in a bed with another woman, when you say that do you mean that he just didn't tell you himself? Or did he actually try and prevent you from finding out?
Personally, I'd break up. It all seems to be rather pointless being in a long distance relationship for a year and a half, and there doesn't appear to much trust going on.
If you really like each other then get back together when you're in the same city/country, until then just live your own lives.0 -
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Honey I don’t blame you for being annoyed to be honest... I would be incredibly upset to find that a female friend of my partners was sharing a bed with him! Couldn’t she have slept on the couch? If you ask me you deserve a little more respect than that
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When going out with someone, you don't share your bed with someone else. It's simply disrespectful.
I wouldn't waste anymore time with him.
Male perspective.0 -
Why couldn't either of them sleep on the couch/ floor? Sharing a bed would be extremely inappropriate in my view. Regardless of his lack of attraction towards her, he should've had more respect for you than to do that.
This is a man's opinion:
I would consider it inappropriate, you have tricked yourself into labelling this as jealousy, it certainly isn't, it's a matter of respect. You are not jealous of this other women, i.e. coveting something she has, you have been shown a lack of loyalty and respect. It is disrepectful considering you explained how you have been treated in the past. He has needlessly given you cause to doubt him.
If it was me, i would expect my fiancé to crucify me!
Given the distance and his lack of honest i'd say break free of the hassle of this. It doesn't sound like it's a 2 way street here.0 -
When I say "discovered" and "tried to hide" basically it happened like this; I found a post-it from this girl in his room with a note saying "Wake up...(can't remember exact message)...Love and kisses, T". When I questioned him, he said that this girl had stayed in his place during a weekend that he was visiting me, and that she'd left notes behind her, she was just being silly.
I accepted it at first but when I started to dwell on it I convinced myself that something was happening, and we had a huge argument over it. During the argument it emerged that she had actually arrived in the apartment a few days before he left it and in that time they shared the bed together. So he did confess, technically, but only after much freaking out on my part.
On another note, when I tried to break up with him I said that it wasn't worth continuing if this jealousy thing was going to come up every 2 months or so, causing explosive fights. He said; if it means we stay together it's worth the rows.
Also, I said it would be better to break up since I feel guilty about him cutting off his friends for me (the two ex's and probably now this girl too). He said he doesn't care if he has to give up all his friends, that I'm more important....but that's just wrong and not healthy for anyone!0 -
Serious case of paranoia. It's interesting you wanted to break up because you felt he shared a bed just to hurt you,rather than breaking up because he shared a bed. Does it not seem a bit far fetched that he would decide to share a bed with a girl for the purpose of hurting you?
Could it be the case that you dont feel justified breaking up over sharing a bed, because that would be innocent, yet you suspect he cheated and have no proof, so are using this 'deliberate intent" theory to warrant a break up?
In my opinion; if you dont trust him, a relationship will not work. And a long distance relationship especially will not work. Trust your gut on this one.0 -
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I can't tell you much about your jealousy, although generally you do seem to be a bit 'too' jealous about the ex-girlfriends. But I think you were right to be upset about the girl sleeping in the bed with your boyfriend. I'd be livid if my husband did that, and I would have been livid about it at any time in our relationship! In fact, I know for sure that when a friend stayed over a few months into our relationship he slept on the couch and he gave her our bed (I was only there at weekends at the time). If your relationship is exclusive, I don't think that you should have to accept that your boyfriend shares the intimate space that he usually shares with you with another woman. Lying in bed beside her is not like sitting on a couch beside her, because the bed is much more significant to your relationship!0
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Another male perspective here.
As a fella in his late 20s, I can confirm absolutely that most men are idiots. We just don't get some of the things that upset women. Your boyfriend didn't do this to hurt you. He did it because - as I've said - men are idiots and sometimes we can be too practical/short-sighted for our own good.
I can understand why you'd feel the way you do about his sleeping in the same bed as his friend but I would imagine that it never occured to him at the time (and he may even still struggle to understand your grievances now, given that they're just friends and nothing happened).
Maybe I'm wrong, but it strikes me that you're upset not because of what happened per se but because you feel that he's guilty of a blatant disregard for your insecurities? Again, as an outsider I can understand this but he might have listened to your story about your ex and heard, "Right, no hanging out with my ex-girlfriends or getting drunk with them. Can do. No problem". He didn't read any deeper than this though, certainly not the implicit, "...there's no sharing a bed with any girls, even if they're just friends".
Provided you're content that nothing did actually happen, my advice would be to move on and enjoy the rest of your relationship together. He seems decent enough (from what you said about breaking if off with the other girls when you two got together) so maybe you could just have a calm talk and be really, really, really clear about what you're not comfortable with.
Best of luck.0 -
Why couldn't either of them sleep on the couch/ floor? Sharing a bed would be extremely inappropriate in my view. Regardless of his lack of attraction towards her, he should've had more respect for you than to do that.
Agreed. OP, the only line I would draw would be between you and him. Get gone, girl!0 -
Pixiequeen, whether you take my earlier piece of advice or not, I hope you listen to this bit:
Whatever you do, don't turn into one of those Sex-in-the-City, figger-wagging, "you go, girl!" types. While I can see the merits of some of the other posts in this thread, I would urge you not to dump him "fabulously", with "I Will Survive" playing in your head, as some of the posters here seem to suggest.
He hasn't had sex with your mate or killed your dog. He's been a bit inconsiderate and thick without meaning any harm (and you're going to get a lot more of that in the years to come, whether you're with this guy or not). Just have a talk with him, explain your side and try to understand his. Maybe it'll work out, maybe it won't but please - for your sake and his - don't go all Beyonce on his ass.0 -
"without meaning any harm"... he lied to cover up the fact that he was in the apartment at the same time as this girl, he could have just said she slept on couch. he's backed into a corner and wriggling.
I was this guy once. He's not thick, he's trying to manipulate.0 -
wilkie2006 wrote: »Maybe I'm wrong, but it strikes me that you're upset not because of what happened per se but because you feel that he's guilty of a blatant disregard for your insecurities? Again, as an outsider I can understand this but he might have listened to your story about your ex and heard, "Right, no hanging out with my ex-girlfriends or getting drunk with them. Can do. No problem". He didn't read any deeper than this though, certainly not the implicit, "...there's no sharing a bed with any girls, even if they're just friends".
I think you've hit the nail on the head with your comment in general and here in particular. What I think is still causing difficulty is that he can't understand why I'm pissed. From his point of view it's: "She thought I cheated, so she was angry. She now believes I haven't cheated, so why still angry?".
It appears he didn't see the harm in it; I'm not accusing him of deliberately setting out to hurt me, but of being aware that it was a highly probable by-product of his actions and choosing to ignore that. And even if he was completely ignorant of the potential for damage, how can that be resolved?
I know some people have suggested making clear what I'm comfortable and uncomfortable with, but we seem to be coming from completely different ends of the spectrum. I would have thought that bed-sharing with a female friend was an obvious no, while he seems oblivious. Do we have to go through do's and don'ts on a scenario-by-scenario basis? Impossible. Should he call me to ask my permission if he's unsure? Ridiculous.
What I'm trying to get at is: I don't want to the girl who stops my boyfriend from having a life. But I do want him to be the guy that understands how to behave so as to avoid me becoming a green-eyed monster.0 -
If you have trust issues then the one thing you should not do is get involved in a LDR, which can only work properly when the trust is there.
In my opinion, I would not break up with someone simply for sharing a bed with a person of the opposite gender. I would tell them rationally that I was uncomfortable with it and that I wouldn't like it to happen again. If it did, then I'd break up with them as it shows a complete lack of respect.0 -
Deleted User wrote: »If you have trust issues then the one thing you should not do is get involved in a LDR, which can only work properly when the trust is there.
In my opinion, I would not break up with someone simply for sharing a bed with a person of the opposite gender. I would tell them rationally that I was uncomfortable with it and that I wouldn't like it to happen again. If it did, then I'd break up with them as it shows a complete lack of respect.
Possibly true on both points, certainly plausible positions!
A previous poster also said men often don't 'get' the reasons why women get upset about things. Surely so, but in this case? How would most men feel about their girlfriend sharing a bed for a night with a male friend? I would hazard that most wouldn't like it, and would thus assume that their girlfriend wouldn't like it if it was vice versa. It seems odd that this particular man wouldn't see this too.0 -
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pixiequeen wrote: »What I think is still causing difficulty is that he can't understand why I'm pissed. From his point of view it's: "She thought I cheated, so she was angry. She now believes I haven't cheated, so why still angry?".
I'm not surprised he still can't understand; his tiny man brain is trying to process something that's a bit abstract and requires something beyond an obvious cause and effect. A man's brain, in his early 20s, has only just begun to evolve from playing a Playstation, where pushing x button produces y effect. For him, cheating - along with obvious flirting - is a big "no no", which he can just about grasp. Anything more than that is a bit too nebulous and therefore hit and miss (it's not all doom and gloom, keep reading).pixiequeen wrote: »It appears he didn't see the harm in it; I'm not accusing him of deliberately setting out to hurt me, but of being aware that it was a highly probable by-product of his actions and choosing to ignore that.
As far as you're concerned, you set out your parameters (which he understood) and he disregarded them. As far as he's concerned, you set out your parameters (which he understood) and did something that was totally unconnected with them (because it was a friend, not an ex or someone he was interested in).pixiequeen wrote: »I know some people have suggested making clear what I'm comfortable and uncomfortable with, but we seem to be coming from completely different ends of the spectrum.
Definitely. You're coming from absolutley opposing sides: the emotionally intelligent female perspective versus the coarse - yet well intentioned - male one.pixiequeen wrote: »I would have thought that bed-sharing with a female friend was an obvious no, while he seems oblivious.
If, via boards, I called you ignorant, it'd be reasonable to assume you'd be offended or hurt. You'd take your understanding of the word and assume that it was my understanding of it too, thereby concluding that I'd intended to insult you. If it later emerged that my first language wasn't English and that I used "ignorant" to innocently describe someone who just didn't happen to know a particular thing then it changes things immeasurably, removing any offence from the term. If you apply this to you and your boyfriend (leaving aside the argument that he should have understood how doing what he did would make you feel) where:
the word ignorant = sleeping with a friend, and
the sophisticated vs basic understanding of the word = the associations with sleeping with a friend
then it changes it quite a bit.pixiequeen wrote: »Do we have to go through do's and don'ts on a scenario-by-scenario basis? Impossible. Should he call me to ask my permission if he's unsure? Ridiculous.
You're completely right, it would be impossible and ridiculous. Unfortunately, there's no quick fix to this. If you stay together he'll carry on being an idiot but, over time (and arguments), will get to know how to be less of an idiot. He'll still hurt you with his clumsy and stupid - though ultimately innocent - actions (although I'n pretty sure he'll never share another bed with anyone again!) but will get better at avoiding the really bad ones. If you break up with him you'll meet another idiot who'll do the very same.
The thing is (and I'm sure all women will agree with this), men never stop being morons. I'm a moron now but, thanks to a succession of moronic relationships under my belt and the guidance of my lovely and long-tormented girlfriend, I'm less of a moron than I used to be.pixiequeen wrote: »What I'm trying to get at is: I don't want to the girl who stops my boyfriend from having a life. But I do want him to be the guy that understands how to behave so as to avoid me becoming a green-eyed monster.
He will learn how to behave but, like any man new(ish) to relationships, it'll take a bit of time in a relationship to learn how women's minds work. I bet having that dumping conversation has given him a really kick up the arse to learn quick though.
From what you posted about him, he seems like a pretty decent guy. It also sounds like he loves you too; dropping your friends for a girl is a pretty big statement, I'd say. If I was you, give it another go. Explain why you didn't like what he did and let him know that he's expected to think outside the box once in a while. See what happens. Maybe he'll cop on, maybe he won't but at least you'll have given it a go.0 -
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what a ridiculous sexist post. ignorant.0
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what a ridiculous sexist post. ignorant.
I think you'll find that it's a sophisticated and considered reply that recognises men and women's differences. Moreover, it advocates reflexivity and empathy instead of the traditional battering ram, "dump him, hes nt worth it. u better than that" approach.
Still, always good to see someone uploading critical comments that don't actually offer anything useful to the original poster (for a change)0 -
zuroph, as per forum/site rules - an issue with a post/poster should be reported rather than dragging another posters thread off-topic to comment.
wilkie2006, if you cannot offer advice without resorting to derogatory terms kindly refrain from posting in this forum.
Be aware that off-topic and unhelpful posting can earn you a ban from this forum (please note that includes using the thread rather than PM to question moderator instruction).
If you haven't already done so, please take the time to read the [URL=" http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056181484"]forum rules[/URL] in the charter.
Many thanks.0 -
wilkie2006 wrote: »I think you'll find that it's a sophisticated and considered reply that recognises men and women's differences. Moreover, it advocates reflexivity and empathy instead of the traditional battering ram, "dump him, hes nt worth it. u better than that" approach.
Still, always good to see someone uploading critical comments that don't actually offer anything useful to the original poster (for a change)
See, I've already given advice, and I feel that yours is flawed in that it stereotypes all men, and rudely so. In that regard, I am trying to advise the OP, that your advice is just plain terrible.
OP, He lied about when she was there, and then told you she shared the room, as he didnt know how much you knew. It has to set off alarm bells, and if the best he can do is say "I didnt think it would upset you", then you need to be putting more pressure on him to explain what he DID think.
Another poster mentioned that you shouldnt be starting up a long distnace relationship if you already have trust issues. That's a very fair and valid point, and perhaps you should consider why you would, is there a self-destructive pattern emerging there that may be worth looking at.
If you break up with him or not, best of luck, but it does need further investigation.0 -
OP, He lied about when she was there, and then told you she shared the room, as he didnt know how much you knew. It has to set off alarm bells, and if the best he can do is say "I didnt think it would upset you", then you need to be putting more pressure on him to explain what he DID think.
The OP trusts that nothing untoward happened. As she's the only person who knows him, I feel the premise of my argument (and that which follows) is sound. Of course, if he has done something he shouldn't have done then things are different but that's another discussion.0 -
You know this guy had two girlfriends on the go simultaneously before he met you. You also know that he also feels it is no big deal to share a bed with a female friend while his girlfriend is miles away. You, on the other hand, admit to having trust issues, and obviously are repulsed by both these behaviours.
You are going to give yourself a heart attack if you stay in a long-distance relationship with this guy. Your views on the rights and responsibilities of being in a relationship are wildly divergent.0 -
I agree with Gandhi.
You two are just not suited. You will end up with your brain melted... I am also not sure how innocent it was if he didn't tell you but that's just me. It's very strange she was leaving him little notes. Sorry op, maybe I gave an evil mind but...0 -
First of all, I don't think you're ready to be in a relationship at the moment. Jealousy is not a good partner in a relationship, and will rot it eventually. Break up with your boyfriend, and take some time for yourself.
Secondly, your boyfriend sounds like an ass. A girl slept in his bed and nothing happened? Why didn't she sleep on the couch, or on the floor? That girl had one thing on her mind and your boyfriend was more than happy to accommodate her. I know I would never sleep in the same bed as someone else's boyfriend, because the ONLY assumption that can be made is that 'something happened'. NO OTHER assumption can be made. It's like saving a bar of chocolate, and coming home to find that your child has chocolate all over his face and the chocolate is missing. Child says 'Dog ate the chocolate'. AND YOU BELIEVE HIM!
Every relationship (even good ones) have their ups and downs, certain amount of pressure involved. If you're in a relationship where you can't trust your partner (due to jealousy, due to cheating etc), the relationship is under added pressure. It's not healthy, and it's not good for your self esteem.0 -
I would be freaked out by the following;
- the fact that you would never have known about it, only for the fact that you stumbled upon the note- if he'd have told you straight up before it happened "such and such is in the City and is kipping at mine" then you'd know there was nothing to worry about. You might still be pissed he was contemplating sharing a bed, but it would have given you the chance to voice your concerns about it and he wouldn't have been trying to hide it.
- its highly inappropriate to sleep in the same bed as a friend when you're in a relationship, regardless of whether its platonic or not. No matter what he says, it is not like sharing a bed with a male friend.
- The note sounds kinda flirtatious and very unnecessary. I'm sorry to say, but it doesn't sound like a platonic kind of note. Platonic would be "get up you lazy git" or something along those lines.
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Ok - bear with me on this one, because you migntn't like what I say.. at the start anyway!
I think you are a very big part of the problem here. You are trying to justify alot of stuff by "well he knows about my jealousy issues". So it's like he should know not to have female friends, or not to be in a position where he is talking to/in the company of female friends when he knows that you are jealous.
It's like an alcoholic/gambler explaining away their behaviour by saying - well you know what I'm like, and then blaming their partner because they drink or gamble etc.
The sharing a bed thing?? While a bit thoughtless and completely silly.. might have been completely innocent. They may be good friends who regularly in the past shared a bed in completely innocent circumstances. I do think that while he's in a relationship it is very inappropriate and inconsiderate, but then again maybe not something he thought very much of at the time.
Making him cut off contact with 2 girls he was "sort of seeing"??? Come on! Really? It obviously wasn't too serious with them, and as soon as he started seeing you he finished any romantic involvement with them, and then you hear about them and make him cut contact. That to me has alarm bells all over it!
If any girl came on here with a post saying her bf was very jealous and making her cut contact with male friends, or people she was casually seeing in the past the thread would be hopping with people saying that he is manipulative and controlling.
I think if jealousy is such a huge issue for you, then this relationship, as it stands, isn't right for you. You need to be happy in a relationship. 18 months, with huge arguments every 2 months and regular talk of breaking up is not a happy relationship..
I think you have some maturing to do, and I think you need to be in a relationship where you are with your bf more often that you are not - so you can see for yourself the type of person he is around other girls, and naturally your trust will build up when you realise that he is not out flirting and trying to get off with anyone who passes him.
Long distance - with jealousy problems, and your mind working over time with "where is he now", "who's he talking to", "what are they doing" etc is not happy. It's not nice. And it's not what being in a relationship is about.
I cannot understand not trusting the person you decide to be in a relationship with. I have a friend and her and her husband (yes they are not kids!) would both be very jealous. We have often been out and got chatting, completely innocently (because we're married!) with fellas, and then she would feel the need to concoct some big story as to what happened, because he would "go mad" (or so she says) if he knew fellas weer "chatting her up"! I've been out on these same nights, I've never noticed we were specifically being "chatted up"! I can't understand living like that. Because not only do they not trust each other - or maybe it's other people they don't trust, but not only that - they then lie to each other to "cover up" things that never actually happened. Do you see what I mean?
I trust my husband 100%. He trusts me - so if I go out, and get chatting to some fella at a bar - I tell him about it, in the context of what the conversation was. He doesn't question or demand that I never speak to fellas etc. He is a teacher and one job he owrked in he was 1 of 3 men in the building! he was constantly coming home with stories of "Me and Mary did such a thing today... I was in the lunch room with Joan etc...."
I can't imagine what my life, or his would be like if he was afraid to talk to me about his normal day. Or if he felt he had to lie or make things up so that I wouldn't go mad about it.
What would be the point of the relationship.
As we get older and more settled our friendships change, and people tend to spend less time hanging around in mixed groups. it tends to shift to couples going out together or whatever.
But in early 20s people are still in college working locally, not everyone is in relationships so boy/girl groups of friends are still very normal - if you are going to try stop your boyfriend going places because "other girls are there" and "he knows about my jealousy" then you are only going to force him into lying to you.. because he still wants to hang out with his mates - boys and girls - but he doesn't want the hassle that you bring because of that.
If you can't be in a relationship without all the drama and hysterics, maybe you should give yourself and him a break for a while.
I don't know.. but if you were my friend I'd be getting fairly annoyed listening to you at this stage.. I can't imagine how I'd feel if I was going out with you!
Sorry about the length of this, and the fact it rambled a bit.. and I know I've probably said some harsh enough stuff, but my intention is not to insult you. It's to show you that you don't have to live your life as you are. Try find away to overcome your jealousy issues, and you will be much much happier in this, or future relationships.
Best of luck to you... you're only young - you have a long way to go yet!0
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