https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/other-sports/boxing-facing-potential-expulsion-from-

walshb · 03-10-2018 9:31pm #1

AIBA need to get a fooking grip here...

May not even be in Tokyo!

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/other-sports/boxing-facing-potential-expulsion-from-olympics-1.3650147?mode=amp

megadodge · 03-10-2018 10:43pm

It's not like they haven't got enough warnings. I can't believe they went ahead with the appointment of the new president, considering the potential consequences for doing so.

Of course it was the brutal judging that brought so much negative attention back to boxing in the first place. Decisions that would have been very hard to make if computer scoring was still in place. The whole reason computer judging was introduced in the first place was because of the corrupt decision in Roy Jones 1988 Olympic final that made world headlines, even more than Michael Conlan's rant.

The 10 point must system is just way too easy to manipulate, considering there's only three rounds in which you have to justify yourself, it's hard to believe that there are still some people who think it's better than the computer judging.

Anyway, hopefully things can get worked out, but I don't think it's looking good.

Joe_ Public · 04-10-2018 6:56am

Could be wrong but I don’t believe they are totally serious about carrying out this threat. Some kind of fudge will be reached. If they were serious they could have easily expelled boxing from the upcoming youth Olympics which would have signaled a major warning but they haven’t even done that.

Aiba are a total disgrace though, hard to see how they could go downhill after Wu but they are finding a way.

walshb · 04-10-2018 8:44am

I personally prefer the 10 point judging system. It encompasses the complete sport, not just actual scoring, some of which either isn’t a score, or is a score that doesn’t get scored..

Reading the article it’s baffling to think that AIBA and its people would put the sport in such jeopardy for one man...disgraceful.

Joe_ Public · 04-10-2018 12:26pm

walshb wrote: »

I personally prefer the 10 point judging system. It encompasses the complete sport, not just actual scoring, some of which either isn’t a score, or is a score that doesn’t get scored..

Reading the article it’s baffling to think that AIBA and its people would put the sort in such jeopardy for one man...disgraceful.

When I saw the thread title I was sure I was going to see the IOC getting it with both barrels for interfering in aiba business! You are totally spot on as it happens.

On scoring I wonder if you totted up all the genuinely dodgy decisions over the years which system would come out on top? My bet is that it would be pretty much even stevens.

Joe_ Public · 04-10-2018 1:04pm

Yeah the England boxing chairman came out very strongly against Rakhimov. I read 19 associations are behind them, maybe IABA are one of them but how to tell, ive never heard the IABA chairman speak on anything ever.

In fairness to them Englsnd have always shown good leadership on these matters, think they were the ones who stood up to oppose Wu when he first got elected and they subsequently paid the price for it.

Joe_ Public · 04-10-2018 1:30pm

pac_man wrote: »

I'd imagine alot associations are afraid of going against the status quo. They may have to if the threats of getting kicked out of the Olympics continue.

Absolutely and/or waiting to see which way the tide is going to turn before committing. You’d think that between them the likes of England and the US could lead some kind of united western front but I guess it’s just a sign of where the money and power lies in amateur boxing these days.

megadodge · 05-10-2018 7:16pm

Joe_ Public wrote: »

On scoring I wonder if you totted up all the genuinely dodgy decisions over the years which system would come out on top? My bet is that it would be pretty much even stevens.

I doubt it very much. In my experience, the computer system invariably got the right winner. I'm not saying it was right absolutely every time (Joshua / Savon) and sometimes the winning margin was surprising, but overall there were very few head scratchers the way there is with the 10 point must.

In particular, the way the judges were monitored round by round meant anybody out of line was immediately spotted and spoken to. That's not the case now.

The beauty of the computer system is that it took opinion out of it. It is a black and white scoring system, where personal preferences don't come into it, meaning a boxer doesn't have to rely on luckily getting judges that favour his style in order to win a potentially tough match.

Under the current system the neanderthal plodding forward but landing nothing will inevitably win fights because of that ridiculous "he was going forward" thing that some still subscribe to.

When you think of it, they don't even allow even rounds. That means in really, really close rounds where you really can't pick a winner, what do you do? Seriously, what do you actually do? Flip a mental coin? Then if there's another hard to call round and you go for the same boxer, he can't lose! Based on what? Two even rounds and all he has to do is survive the third and he wins, even though the only clear round is the last - in the other boxer's favour.

The heavyweight fight between the Khazak and Russian the night before Conlan's debacle was utterly outrageous! It was disgraceful! The Russian was beaten up (not merely outboxed - which he was) in all three rounds and because the system was far easier to manipulate he 'won'. Even the Wikipedia entry mentions it -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxing_at_the_2016_Summer_Olympics_%E2%80%93_Men%27s_heavyweight

I truly cannot see Levit losing that fight if it was under the computer system. He just outlanded the Russian by so much it would have been impossible to manipulate.

Joe_ Public · 06-10-2018 8:40am

megadodge wrote: »

I doubt it very much. In my experience, the computer system invariably got the right winner. I'm not saying it was right absolutely every time (Joshua / Savon) and sometimes the winning margin was surprising, but overall there were very few head scratchers the way there is with the 10 point must.

In particular, the way the judges were monitored round by round meant anybody out of line was immediately spotted and spoken to. That's not the case now.

The beauty of the computer system is that it took opinion out of it. It is a black and white scoring system, where personal preferences don't come into it, meaning a boxer doesn't have to rely on luckily getting judges that favour his style in order to win a potentially tough match.

Under the current system the neanderthal plodding forward but landing nothing will inevitably win fights because of that ridiculous "he was going forward" thing that some still subscribe to.

When you think of it, they don't even allow even rounds. That means in really, really close rounds where you really can't pick a winner, what do you do? Seriously, what do you actually do? Flip a mental coin? Then if there's another hard to call round and you go for the same boxer, he can't lose! Based on what? Two even rounds and all he has to do is survive the third and he wins, even though the only clear round is the last - in the other boxer's favour.

The heavyweight fight between the Khazak and Russian the night before Conlan's debacle was utterly outrageous! It was disgraceful! The Russian was beaten up (not merely outboxed - which he was) in all three rounds and because the system was far easier to manipulate he 'won'. Even the Wikipedia entry mentions it -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxing_at_the_2016_Summer_Olympics_%E2%80%93_Men%27s_heavyweight

I truly cannot see Levit losing that fight if it was under the computer system. He just outlanded the Russian by so much it would have been impossible to manipulate.

Yes the Levit fight was even more blatant than the Conlan one. Absolutely no dispute there, think many of us pointed that out at the time.

However, while I can agree in principle with a lot of what you say, I feel you paint a too rosy picture of computer scoring. Maybe it would have been harder for judges to “miss-score” the Levit fight, but my watching experience tells me they’d have found a way if they really wanted to. Sheer brazenness would have seen to it.

Before 2008 my memory isn’t great but I remember 2008 and 2012 fairly well and hardly being able to read an article about any day in the boxing ring without reference to scoring controversy. Was Levit any worse than the Japanese fighter who beat his opponent around the ring and knocked him down 6 times in 2012? They found a way to get him beat too. Alex Vastine got done in 2008 and 2012, through incompetence or corruption? I’m not sure which.

I’m actually on the fence on this, I believe there are pros and cons in both systems. Maybe if you took corruption out of it, computer is more reliable in terms of human error or judgment. I’m not really sure. I do know it had its critics and Roy Jones Jr himself was one of them, despite his being the main reason for its introduction in the first place.

walshb · 06-10-2018 9:40am

There have been countless examples of horrendous computer scores. Not necessarily the wrong winner, just horrible scores/reflections of fights...

Beijing 2008 our own Paddy Barnes loss to Shiming...??

Joe_ Public · 06-10-2018 10:03am

walshb wrote: »

There have been countless examples of horrendous computer scores. Not necessarily the wrong winner, just horrible scores/reflections of fights...

Beijing 2008 our own Paddy Barnes loss to Shiming...??

Yes I’d agree with that. And both David Oliver Joyce and Joe Ward were very dubiously deprived of Olympic places and am using very diplomatic language there! Ward landed twice as many punches as his opponent and still lost.

I don’t think the scoring system is the biggest issue though. Levit or Conlan didn’t lose in Rio due to the scoring system in place, as far as I’m concerned they lost due to naked corruption and there’s no point pretending otherwise.

One positive development is that there will be independent oversight of the judging at the youth Olympics and the IOC should insist on this as a dealbreaker for Tokyo too.

walshb · 16-10-2018 9:08pm

And boxing’s criminal links

Try_harder · 19-10-2018 9:24am

walshb wrote: »

There have been countless examples of horrendous computer scores. Not necessarily the wrong winner, just horrible scores/reflections of fights...

Beijing 2008 our own Paddy Barnes loss to Shiming...??

I still thing Shiming easily won that.

Computer scoring is harder to manipulate but not impossible. Ignoring the boxers scores is one and an Irish ref exposed synchronised scoring that abused that system.

I agree that giving a guy a round for -putting his opponent under pressure- without landing any meaningful shots is rediculous - it would be like giving a team a game for having more shots on goal, or possession- without actually scoring in field sports

walshb · 19-10-2018 9:49am

Try_harder wrote: »

I still thing Shiming easily won that.

Computer scoring is harder to manipulate but not impossible. Ignoring the boxers scores is one and an Irish ref exposed synchronised scoring that abused that system.

I agree that giving a guy a round for -putting his opponent under pressure- without landing any meaningful shots is rediculous - it would be like giving a team a game for having more shots on goal, or possession- without actually scoring in field sports

I thought Shiming won. Deserved. But a score of 0 I think it was for Barnes was disgusting.

Joe_ Public · 19-10-2018 1:47pm

Was 15-0 I think, the bronze medal fight in Beijing. Can recall Barnes landing a cracker of a punch in the first, probably about 4 or 5 decent ones after that but none registered. Should never have happened, was a disgrace for sure.

walshb · 19-10-2018 2:18pm

Try_harder wrote: »

His score wasnt 0

It was. 15-0 he lost.

Try_harder · 19-10-2018 4:26pm

walshb wrote: »

It was. 15-0 he lost.

I am mixing it up with 2012

walshb · 19-10-2018 6:31pm

Try_harder wrote: »

I am mixing it up with 2012

Thought so..

2012 was razor close. I think I had Paddy doing the better work in that one...

Try_harder · 19-10-2018 6:34pm

walshb wrote: »

Thought so..

2012 was razor close. I think I had Paddy doing the better work in that one...

I gave it to the Chinese boxer

walshb · 03-11-2018 3:22pm

Not looking good for Tokyo..

Gafur Rhakimov elected with 86/134 votes.

Our IABA won’t say who of the two candidates they voted for..

Ireland's Olympic medal hopes could receive huge blow with boxing facing expulsion from Tokyo 2020
Sean McGoldrick • 7 minutes ago

Can't load image
   
Ireland's most successful Olympic sport boxing is facing expulsion from the Tokyo Olympics in 2020.

The world governing body of the sport AIBA, has defied repeated warnings from the International Olympic Committee and elected Gafur Rakhimov as the permanent President of the organisation at a Congress in Moscow.

Rakhimov is a controversial figure due to his alleged links to organised crime in central Asia– which he denies – has been named by the US Treasury as a person who is associated with a gang involved in the transportation and sale of heroin. He is also banned from entering many countries including the United States, Argentina and Australia.

The President of the International Olympic Committee Thomas Bach had earned that Rakhimov's election as President could put boxing's place in Toyko in jeopardy. He said boxing's Olympic future 'greatly depended' on the outcome of the Congress election.

But despite these stark warnings delegates backed Rakhimov. In a chaotic election – it was decided to scrap the planned electrical voting system and replay it with a paper ballot at the last minute - he received 86 out of the 134 votes cast, comfortably defeating the other only candidate, former Olympic boxing medallist Serik Konakbayev from Kazakhstan.

Prior to his election Rakhimov had offered to temporarily step aside in order to avoid a showdown with the International Olympic Committee but this was rejected by delegates.

Ireland was represented as the Congress by the President of the IABA Dominic O'Rourke, secretary Art O'Brien and chief executive Fergal Carruth. The latter declined to reveal which candidate Ireland supported in the election.

The ball is now back in the court of the IOC. It is believe that they may suspend AIBA – which would result in the cash strapped organisation losing sixty percent of its funding – and attempt to set up a rival body which would run the boxing tournament at the Tokyo Games as well as the qualification events.

Such a route is fraught with difficulties, however, and it is certain it would be legally challenged by the AIBA. Meanwhile, it is the boxers who are caught in a row which could spell the death-knell of amateur boxing if it ultimately results in no boxing in the Tokyo Olympics.

Ireland has won 16 Olympic boxing medals with Michael Carruth and Katie Taylor claiming gold medals in Barcelona (1992) and London (2012) respectively.

Sponsored Content
Every Driver In Ireland Should Have These Night Driving Glasses That Make It Safe To Drive Again
Every Driver In Ireland Should Have These Night Driving Glasses That Make It Safe To Drive Again
techdiscountfinder.com
Expecting parents: this classical music app is for you
Expecting parents: this classical music app is for you
IDAGIO
Born Before 1967? No Hearing Aid? You Must Read This
Born Before 1967? No Hearing Aid? You Must Read This
Clinic Compare
This Cheap Drone Is Best Selling Gift In Ireland
This Cheap Drone Is Best Selling Gift In Ireland
simplediscountfinder.com
by
Related Articles

Fears that boxing will be axed from the Olympics ease after CAS clear Serik Konakbayev to contest AIBA presidency

Fears grow that boxing will lose Olympic status for Tokyo 2020

Boxing's Olympic status in jeopardy, warns IOC
Read More Latest

Joe_ Public · 03-11-2018 4:45pm

IABA won’t even say which candidate they voted for. Is that privileged information or something? Why not just answer the question when asked?

walshb · 03-11-2018 4:58pm

Joe_ Public wrote: »

IABA won’t even say which candidate they voted for. Is that privileged information or something? Why not just answer the question when asked?

I’m a bit stumped on that. I think the Irish public have a right to know, considering the public importance of this, as well as the public profile of the man involved, and his alleged links to serious criminal activities. This man is heading up a global organization...

Joe_ Public · 03-11-2018 5:23pm

walshb wrote: »

I’m a bit stumped on that. I think the Irish public have a right to know, considering the public importance of this, as well as the public profile of the man involved, and his alleged links to serious criminal activities. This man is heading up a global organization...

I guess they’ll say this is a private vote but I’d still agree with you 1000 %, membership at least should be informed and even consulted but if this issue ever came before council, i certainly didn’t hear or read about it anyway. Open to correction on that. They just make it look like there’s something hidden or furtive about it, even if there’s no need for it to be so.

titan18 · 03-11-2018 8:27pm

Just makes it look like they votes for the Uzbek tbh, and they're trying to hide it due to the controversy.

walshb · 03-11-2018 8:52pm

And you’d have to wonder how poor his opposition was...

Something’s rotten on this one...

Joe_ Public · 03-11-2018 9:27pm

Apparently Duncan McKay who is reporting from moscow for insidethebiz website speculated that iaba was voting for Rakhimov but was approached by an iaba official who said they wanted their decision kept private and asked him to delete the reference. All a bit bizarre really. Somebody needs to start asking some hard questions here.

Strazdas · 03-11-2018 10:28pm

walshb wrote: »

And you’d have to wonder how poor his opposition was...

Something’s rotten on this one...

It's frankly bizarre that AIBA would elect a known criminal as their President, especially after the express warnings from the IOC. You could argue that the IOC would be well within their rights to expel them from the Olympics.

blueskys · 09-11-2018 8:42am

Seems Michael Conlon was right all along..Incredible that the AIBA have elected
a top global heroin dealer as their president and that our crowd also voted for him! (Not surprised by that either). Seriously this sends out a terrible signal to any young people involved in the sport. And yet we had some muppet on this forum telling us there was nothing wrong with the AIBA after the last olympics.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/boxing/ewan-mackenna-amateur-boxing-may-have-destroyed-itself-last-weekend-and-ireland-has-serious-questions-to-answer-37506972.html

Joe_ Public · 09-11-2018 9:55am

So the iaba didn’t actually vote for Gufur Rakhimov after all. I guess putting a pic up on the website with the boys in moscow together with Konakbayev was their quiet way of confirming it. Still not sure why they couldn’t tell us this last week, but there you go.

walshb · 09-11-2018 10:30am

Joe_ Public wrote: »

So the iaba didn’t actually vote for Gufur Rakhimov after all. I guess putting a pic up on the website with the boys in moscow together with Konakbayev was their quiet way of confirming it. Still not sure why they couldn’t tell us this last week, but there you go.

Has this been confirmed, though? Dominic O'Rourke, the IABA president looks cosy enough posing with Rakhimov.

I saw a pic on Dublin Boxing Board's FB page with O'Rourke and Rakhimov, at least that's what the page says.

Ewan McKenna has a detailed article in the indo from yesterday on it, and the article neither confirms or denies how IABA voted.

walshb · 09-11-2018 10:37am

There is already a thread on this....

Mods....maybe merge into the existing thread.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/other-sports/boxing-facing-potential-expulsion-from-

Comments