JC Reform -

liverpool lad · 28-02-2016 1:40pm #1

Hi,

NQT and still unsure what is the story is about the JC Reform.

Will all current 2nd year students be sitting the new English paper next may/june? Or are things still up in the air. I am just asking because I know the new specification is out for Science, and Business I think.

Also, in regards to this, is there some effect of staff being either ASTI or TUI for these changes coming into force.

Any clarification is welcomed, though I'm sure people are fed up talking about it.

Thanks

Jamfa · 28-02-2016 2:48pm

liverpool lad wrote: »

Hi,

NQT and still unsure what is the story is about the JC Reform.

Will all current 2nd year students be sitting the new English paper next may/june? Or are things still up in the air. I am just asking because I know the new specification is out for Science, and Business I think.

Also, in regards to this, is there some effect of staff being either ASTI or TUI for these changes coming into force.

Any clarification is welcomed, though I'm sure people are fed up talking about it.

Thanks

The English specification was published in 2013 & is the curriculum for the current 1st & 2nd year students.
The current 2nd years will all sit the new JC English exam in June 2017 which will be set, marked & resulted by the SEC. There won't be any other option. However, the ASTI have a directive blocking their members assessing the classroom-based assessments which means their students won't be able to take the Assessment Task assessment in December 2016 which counts for 10% of the final SEC result. If things don't change the max % their students could get is the 90% for the 2 hour exam in June 2017. There's plenty for both the new Minister & ASTI to sort out in the coming months.

political analyst · 28-02-2016 4:22pm

Jamfa wrote: »

There's plenty for both the new Minister & ASTI to sort out in the coming months.

...unless Jan O'Sullivan remains as education minister in the next government, of course.

mirrorwall14 · 28-02-2016 5:03pm

From our inservice with TUI the 90%\10% thing is gone. Both results will be completely independent on their results sheet so it is irrelevant if they don't to the continuous assessment, there will just be a blank for that section and a normal grade out of 100% for the paper

Jamfa · 28-02-2016 5:12pm

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

From our inservice with TUI the 90%\10% thing is gone. Both results will be completely independent on their results sheet so it is irrelevant if they don't to the continuous assessment, there will just be a blank for that section and a normal grade out of 100% for the paper

The Assessment Task is the task that takes place in class following completion of their collection of Texts. It's a sit down written assessment which will be included with the June exam and reported as one grade in the Sept after 3rd year. The two classroom-based assessments are to be reported separately in the JCPA. http://curriculumonline.ie/getmedia/884ac0e0-d761-49f0-907c-41f1f2c0321a/EnglishJCAssessmentGuidelines.pdf

mirrorwall14 · 28-02-2016 5:31pm

My bad mixing up the two types of assessment. Given the people giving our inservice hadn't a bloody clue it's not that surprising

r93kaey5p2izun · 28-02-2016 5:55pm

I thought the Assessment Task will be marked externally, unlike the CBAs. Does the ASTI directive affect the Assessment Task?

Jamfa · 28-02-2016 6:48pm

Lukas Happy Cement wrote: »

I thought the Assessment Task will be marked externally, unlike the CBAs. Does the ASTI directive affect the Assessment Task?

You can't do the Assessment Task until you've completed the 2nd Classroom-Based Assessment so even though it's assessed by the SEC the ASTI directive means it can't be taken by students in ASTI schools.

Education matters · 05-03-2016 10:06pm

Jamfa wrote: »

You can't do the Assessment Task until you've completed the 2nd Classroom-Based Assessment so even though it's assessed by the SEC the ASTI directive means it can't be taken by students in ASTI schools.

Jamfa, just wondering aloud having read your post. The 2nd CBA is done by all schools whether ASTI or TUI in that it's part of the syllabus a, " collection of work" which as you've said we are duty bound to facilitate. I realise the ASTI teachers will not submit this work for assessment but is this is possibly a very shrewd move by the Department...all schools can do the AT given all schools have taught the syllabus? This response is a question I suppose. Do you think ASTI directives as they stand prohibit this, I think the AT will still go ahead given it will operated similarly to practical exams at present.
I queried consistently why the AT couldn't be based on the Oral Component because to me that had more merit for students, I think I may have discovered my answer. If my thinking is correct, this system could continue as it is currently operating and all students will complete a JC paper? What do you think?

Jamfa · 05-03-2016 10:12pm

Education matters wrote: »

Jamfa, just wondering aloud having read your post. The 2nd CBA is done by all schools whether ASTI or TUI in that it's part of the syllabus a, " collection of work" which as you've said we are duty bound to facilitate. I realise the ASTI teachers will not submit this work for assessment but is this is possibly a very shrewd move by the Department...all schools can do the AT given all schools have taught the syllabus? This response is a question I suppose. Do you think ASTI directives as they stand prohibit this, I think the AT will still go ahead given it will operated similarly to practical exams at present.
I queried consistently why the AT couldn't be based on the Oral Component because to me that had more merit for students, I think I may have discovered my answer. If my thinking is correct, this system could continue as it is currently operating and all students will complete a JC paper? What do you think?

Firstly, I don't think many ASTI teachers are preparing their students in 2nd year for either of the CBAs and secondly having read the DES Circular published this week it would appear that the school will have to sign off that all students have completed both CBAs in order for them to sit the AT. Given the lack of CPD and engagement by ASTI teachers I doubt many of them even know what's expected in the recently published guidelines.

Education matters · 05-03-2016 10:28pm

Jamfa wrote: »

Firstly, I don't think many ASTI teachers are preparing their students in 2nd year for either of the CBAs and secondly having read the DES Circular published this week it would appear that the school will have to sign off that all students have completed both CBAs in order for them to sit the AT. Given the lack of CPD and engagement by ASTI teachers I doubt many of them even know what's expected in the recently published guidelines.

I understand, but my point is the 2 nd CBA as you know is the collection of work which we all teach and have to. While ASTI don't sign off and submit 4 pieces of work they could, very easily complete an AT which asks them to write what they have learned from the process. Thanks for the reply, I just wonder was it a smart move which could effectively mean we all continue as we are for the moment and the entire debacle doesn't reach any resolution?

Jamfa · 05-03-2016 10:37pm

Education matters wrote: »

I understand, but my point is the 2 nd CBA as you know is the collection of work which we all teach and have to. While ASTI don't sign off and submit 4 pieces of work they could, very easily complete an AT which asks them to write what they have learned from the process. Thanks for the reply, I just wonder was it a smart move which could effectively mean we all continue as we are for the moment and the entire debacle doesn't reach any resolution?

I understand what you're saying but it seems the DESare going to make schools sign off that the students have completed the CBA as the AT is to take place after it has been completed. If the ASTI directives stay in place the students may have a collection of writing but they won't have completed the CBA. The situation is messy & likely to get messier especially as ASTI teachers of science & business are to start teaching the new course without any training, planning or time to prepare.

r93kaey5p2izun · 05-03-2016 10:48pm

I wouldn't be too concerned about science and business beginning for the moment. Having had our whole school in service and attended the first science in service, I feel they were completely useless and added absolutely no benefit to teachers in preparing to teach the new course. We also get no planning time until after course has already begun next year. I don't think ASTI teachers are at any disadvantage in that regard.

Jamfa · 05-03-2016 10:55pm

Lukas Happy Cement wrote: »

I wouldn't be too concerned about science and business beginning for the moment. Having had our whole school in service and attended the first science in service, I feel they were completely useless and added absolutely no benefit to teachers in preparing to teach the new course. We also get no planning time until after course has already begun next year. I don't think ASTI teachers are at any disadvantage in that regard.

Is there a change in first year science with the new course?

r93kaey5p2izun · 05-03-2016 11:00pm

Jamfa wrote: »

Is there a change in first year science with the new course?

There is a change in content in the new specification, topics removed, topics added, a change in emphasis in most areas. There is alo a reduced time allocation.

mirrorwall14 · 05-03-2016 11:53pm

Lukas Happy Cement wrote: »

I wouldn't be too concerned about science and business beginning for the moment. Having had our whole school in service and attended the first science in service, I feel they were completely useless and added absolutely no benefit to teachers in preparing to teach the new course. We also get no planning time until after course has already begun next year. I don't think ASTI teachers are at any disadvantage in that regard.

I would agree. We have had our whole school inservice and I thought it was very badly prepared and handled. They didn't have answers to the most basic questions and outright lied to us on several occasions. I also felt the team with us were very condescending and thought it was very telling that we didn't get an evaluation form to fill in.

r93kaey5p2izun · 06-03-2016 12:11am

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

I would agree. We have had our whole school inservice and I thought it was very badly prepared and handled. They didn't have answers to the most basic questions and outright lied to us on several occasions. I also felt the team with us were very condescending and thought it was very telling that we didn't get an evaluation form to fill in.

Absolutely. Very thin on real information then a condescending lesson in active learning methodologies and AfL techniques that have been completely done to death at this stage. Nothing practical or innovative at all. The science inservice was the same. Making people write on show-me boards, complete sorting exercises with faddy titles and stick post-it notes on the wall is never going to hide the fact you're rolling out a half-baked and deeply flawed curriculum. A waste of time and an insult to the profession.

mirrorwall14 · 06-03-2016 12:19am

Lukas Happy Cement wrote: »

Absolutely. Very thin on real information then a condescending lesson in active learning methodologies and AfL techniques that have been completely done to death at this stage. Nothing practical or innovative at all. The science inservice was the same. Making people write on show-me boards, complete sorting exercises with faddy titles and stick post-it notes on the wall is never going to hide the fact you're rolling out a half-baked and deeply flawed curriculum. A waste of time and an insult to the profession.

Yeah. If I have to sit through another inservice on active learning I'm going to lose it. Particularly one that isn't even tailored to my subject. One of the guys presenting even claimed they're changing the LC syllabi in time to match the new junior cycle :eek:

And when challenged got pissed off with us.

Education matters · 06-03-2016 12:57am

Jamfa wrote: »

I understand what you're saying but it seems the DESare going to make schools sign off that the students have completed the CBA as the AT is to take place after it has been completed. If the ASTI directives stay in place the students may have a collection of writing but they won't have completed the CBA. The situation is messy & likely to get messier especially as ASTI teachers of science & business are to start teaching the new course without any training, planning or time to prepare.

Yes you're correct, but if you take it that the CBA is just the " Collection of Work", which is the syllabus and read this from the circular

Students must complete their second CBA in order to undertake the associated Assessment Task. The Assessment Task will be completed in class under the supervision of the teacher in accordance with a timeframe and guidance from the NCCA. The Assessment Task will be returned to the SEC for marking and will be marked as part of the Final Examination.

Then I think they've a way out? As far as I've read there's no actual "event" for CBA 2, we're not assessing a presentation at a specific time with specific criteria? I'm just trying to figure out how this will all end up, I think this is a well thought out strategy that may eventually deliver two different exams. Without the AT, ASTI schools couldn't currently sit a JC exam, or maybe it'd just be that they were assessed from 90%? Maybe I'm giving the DES too much credit?

Jamfa · 06-03-2016 1:15am

Education matters wrote: »

Yes you're correct, but if you take it that the CBA is just the " Collection of Work", which is the syllabus and read this from the circular

Students must complete their second CBA in order to undertake the associated Assessment Task. The Assessment Task will be completed in class under the supervision of the teacher in accordance with a timeframe and guidance from the NCCA. The Assessment Task will be returned to the SEC for marking and will be marked as part of the Final Examination.

Then I think they've a way out? As far as I've read there's no actual "event" for CBA 2, we're not assessing a presentation at a specific time with specific criteria? I'm just trying to figure out how this will all end up, I think this is a well thought out strategy that may eventually deliver two different exams. Without the AT, ASTI schools couldn't currently sit a JC exam, or maybe it'd just be that they were assessed from 90%? Maybe I'm giving the DES too much credit?

It's the 90% where the problem will present for teachers & schools. The guidelines for CBAs are clear that to be completed they are assessed by the class teacher & brought to a SLAR meeting. All teachers are to follow the specification but if the students haven't completed the 2nd CBA (including it being assessed) then they can't sit the AT. If the new Minister doesn't make any changes all ASTI English teachers should be clear that at the very least they follow the new spec & prepare their students for both CBAs. As you've stated there may be a case for arguing about the collection but not if the students haven't been keeping one since 2nd year.

mirrorwall14 · 06-03-2016 1:00pm

Jamfa wrote: »

It's the 90% where the problem will present for teachers & schools. The guidelines for CBAs are clear that to be completed they are assessed by the class teacher & brought to a SLAR meeting. All teachers are to follow the specification but if the students haven't completed the 2nd CBA (including it being assessed) then they can't sit the AT. If the new Minister doesn't make any changes all ASTI English teachers should be clear that at the very least they follow the new spec & prepare their students for both CBAs. As you've stated there may be a case for arguing about the collection but not if the students haven't been keeping one since 2nd year.

According to the guys at our inservice the 90% thing is gone. All results will be given independently on the assessment results sheet

Jamfa · 06-03-2016 1:51pm

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

According to the guys at our inservice the 90% thing is gone. All results will be given independently on the assessment results sheet

Yeah the results of the 10% AT & 90% final exam are combined and reported as a single result but if the students don't sit the AT the max they can get is 90%. I can't see it coming to this as parents, students & teachers won't accept it.

mirrorwall14 · 06-03-2016 1:53pm

Jamfa wrote: »

Yeah the results of the 10% AT & 90% final exam are combined and reported as a single result but if the students don't sit the AT the max they can get is 90%. I can't see it coming to this as parents, students & teachers won't accept it.

Thats not what they said and I did query it in detail! They said that the exam gets its own standalone results out of 100% as do each of the other results. Having said that I know that at least one of the numptys was talking ****e so its very possible they were wrong.

Jamfa · 06-03-2016 2:06pm

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

Thats not what they said and I did query it in detail! They said that the exam gets its own standalone results out of 100% as do each of the other results. Having said that I know that at least one of the numptys was talking ****e so its very possible they were wrong.

Sure the whole thing keeps changing. The CBAs are reported individually & the AT & final exam are reported as 1 grade & they all appear on the JCPA.

mirrorwall14 · 06-03-2016 2:08pm

One more thing for me to be pissed off about in that inservice. Don't get me wrong, I'm bloody delighted to finally get a new JC music syllabus but man the whole things is such a pile of bollocks. (I may be in a bad mood this morning....)

ytareh · 06-03-2016 4:34pm

Jamfa wrote: »

Sure the whole thing keeps changing. The CBAs are reported individually & the AT & final exam are reported as 1 grade & they all appear on the JCPA.

Darn thing isn't even 'in' yet and already all acronym-ed out ...!

JC Reform -

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