US diplomat's wife flees home claiming diplomatic immunity after fatal collision

alchemist33 · 05-10-2019 3:17pm #1

And according to this report, she was totally at fault, killing a 19 year old motorcyclist. Such a scummy thing to do, but will the UK government stand up for justice here? I suspect not.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/10/05/us-diplomats-wife-claims-immunity-leaves-uk-afterfatal-road/

Effects · 05-10-2019 3:18pm

alchemist33 wrote: »

killing a 19 year old cyclist.

Motorcyclist.

But yeah. Total scumbags. Face up to what you've done. Doubtful you'd even spend time in prison, but take responsibility.

lawred2 · 05-10-2019 3:30pm

So does she face some sort of charges in the US?

Or can you go about killing people and claiming diplomatic immunity with zero consequence?

alchemist33 · 05-10-2019 3:32pm

Effects wrote: »

Motorcyclist.

Thanks, edited now

NotToScale · 05-10-2019 3:56pm

It's the Trump Whitehouse so think about what a sensible government, with ethics and morals would do. Then just assume they'll do the complete opposite.

RIP Harry Dunn and my sincere condolences to his family and friends. It's an awful thing to have happened and it looks like it was a tragic accident, but whatever the circumstances it's compounded by cowardly hiding behind diplomatic protocol.

It just comes across as extreme arrogance by the US Government. It's not as if the UK is incapable of reasonably, fairly and proportionately investigating a fatal road accident and providing extremely high standards of due process.

Augme · 05-10-2019 4:00pm

Really feel for the family here. I can only imagine how angry and frustrating this must be. Such a cowardly act by the wife the the US. No surprises really though.

Plumbthedepths · 05-10-2019 4:02pm

NotToScale wrote: »

It's the Trump Whitehouse so think about what a sensible government, with ethics and morals would do. Then just assume they'll do the complete opposite.

RIP Harry Dunn and my sincere condolences to his family and friends. It's an awful thing to have happened, whatever the circumstances and it's compounded by cowardly hiding behind diplomatic protocol.

Trump is nothing got to do with it. The woman in question invoked immunity in a cowardly act of avoiding the consequences of her actions. Diplomatic immunity as it stands needs to be re-examined it was not intended to allow those that invoke it to behave illegally.

NotToScale · 05-10-2019 4:05pm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Trump is nothing got to do with it. The woman in question invoked immunity in a cowardly act of avoiding the consequences of her actions. Diplomatic immunity as it stands needs to be re-examined it was not intended to allow those that invoke it to behave illegally.

"Police applied for a waiver of the immunity to pursue the case, but their request was rejected."

That's a decision made by the Ambassador in London or the State Department. So effectively, the Trump administration.

I mean can you imagine Ireland or even the UK insisting on that if a spouse of a diplomat were to have had a similar accident in NY or DC?

Plumbthedepths · 05-10-2019 4:11pm

NotToScale wrote: »

"Police applied for a waiver of the immunity to pursue the case, but their request was rejected."

That's a decision made by the Ambassador in London or the State Department. So effectively, the Trump administration.

I mean can you imagine Ireland or even the UK insisting on that if a spouse of a diplomat were to have had a similar accident in NY or DC?

The state department is behaving in the same manner as other government would deal with a request, regardless who the office holder is.
Can you provide a link to any government which removed diplomatic immunity status from any of its citizens. I certainly can't. Similar incidents happened in 93 and 97 in Russia , US didn't remove immunity from there citizens then either and I'm positive Trump wasn't president then.

Zaph · 05-10-2019 4:13pm

Ridiculous that diplomatic immunity can cover families of diplomats as well. Presumably it exists as there may be things in a diplomat's line of work that flirt with the boundaries of legality, but their families wouldn't be involved in anything like that. It's like saying that parliamentary privilege extends to families of TDs, MPs, etc., so they can say whatever they like about whoever they like with no consequences.

suicide_circus · 05-10-2019 4:32pm

DI might cover accidents but probably not premeditated murder?

Overheal · 05-10-2019 4:34pm

Diplomatic immunity has always had problems but usually severe violations of local law (eg. Attempted rape by Malaysian diplomat in 2014) get processed.

Political situation here being Trump not fawning in love with the UK - but he does have supporters there, and supporters in the US largely claim to be adamantly pro life (while getting on Facebook to rave about how we need bullets and bayonets at the border)

Could go either way; without public outrage Trump will sit on it.

LegallyAbroad · 05-10-2019 4:36pm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Trump is nothing got to do with it. The woman in question invoked immunity in a cowardly act of avoiding the consequences of her actions. Diplomatic immunity as it stands needs to be re-examined it was not intended to allow those that invoke it to behave illegally.

Incorrect. The immunity belongs to the State, not the diplomat (or dependents). Therefore, the State may waive it.

LegallyAbroad · 05-10-2019 4:37pm

Zaph wrote: »

Ridiculous that diplomatic immunity can cover families of diplomats as well. Presumably it exists as there may be things in a diplomat's line of work that flirt with the boundaries of legality, but their families wouldn't be involved in anything like that. It's like saying that parliamentary privilege extends to families of TDs, MPs, etc., so they can say whatever they like about whoever they like with no consequences.

It exists to allow Diplomats represent the interests of their State, without fear of reprisal from the host nation. This is why it covers their families.

It's not much use to the Diplomat if their Spouse or Children can be locked up.

LegallyAbroad · 05-10-2019 4:40pm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

The state department is behaving in the same manner as other government would deal with a request, regardless who the office holder is.
Can you provide a link to any government which removed diplomatic immunity status from any of its citizens. I certainly can't. Similar incidents happened in 93 and 97 in Russia , US didn't remove immunity from there citizens then either and I'm positive Trump wasn't president then.

http://edition.cnn.com/WORLD/9701/12/georgia.diplomat/index.html

Plumbthedepths · 05-10-2019 4:41pm

LegallyAbroad wrote: »

Incorrect. The immunity belongs to the State, not the diplomat (or dependents). Therefore, the State may waive it.

How can I be incorrect when I never said what you have stated?.
The diplomats wife invoked immunity as under the treaty she is entitled to do. The US will not waive it, they haven't done so in the past in similar circumstances.

LegallyAbroad · 05-10-2019 4:41pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

DI might cover accidents but probably not premeditated murder?

Depending on the Diplomat and their position, it can cover everything.

LegallyAbroad · 05-10-2019 4:42pm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

How can I be incorrect when I never said what you have stated?.
The diplomats wife invoked immunity as under the treaty she is entitled to do. The US will not waive it, they haven't done so in the past in similar circumstances.

You said Trump had nothing to do with it. This is not true as it a State Department decision on whether to waive the immunity or not.

Varik · 05-10-2019 4:44pm

Individuals have no authority to waive their own immunity, the country needs to allow it. There was a big case not too long ago where the person tried to waive it and their country refused.

Gatling · 05-10-2019 4:45pm

She should be at least identified along with her husband

Plumbthedepths · 05-10-2019 4:46pm

LegallyAbroad wrote: »

You said Trump had nothing to do with it. This is not true as it a State Department decision on whether to waive the immunity or not.

At least quote the comment you are disagreeing with in the interests of clarity. As an aside the person I made my comment to is suggesting it's only Trump that would allow this to happen. There was similar instances in the 90's and the sitting Presidents at the time did nothing either.

LegallyAbroad · 05-10-2019 4:46pm

Varik wrote: »

Individuals have no authority to waive their own immunity, the country needs to allow it.

To be pedantic, it's not their immunity in the first place...

LegallyAbroad · 05-10-2019 4:47pm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

At least quote the comment you are disagreeing with in the interests of clarity.

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Trump is nothing got to do with it. The woman in question invoked immunity in a cowardly act of avoiding the consequences of her actions. Diplomatic immunity as it stands needs to be re-examined it was not intended to allow those that invoke it to behave illegally.

There ya go.

Plumbthedepths · 05-10-2019 4:49pm

LegallyAbroad wrote: »

There ya go.

Easy , wasn't it.

Guy:Incognito · 05-10-2019 4:50pm

Zaph wrote: »

Ridiculous that diplomatic immunity can cover families of diplomats as well. Presumably it exists as there may be things in a diplomat's line of work that flirt with the boundaries of legality, .

Even for diplomats it should only be for very specific things and circumstances. ie, theres no sensitive parts of their work where a diplomat would need to be immune from killing someone while driving drunk (or with no drink for that matter)

LegallyAbroad · 05-10-2019 4:52pm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Easy , wasn't it.

I also quoted your incorrect comment in my first reply...

LegallyAbroad · 05-10-2019 4:53pm

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Even for diplomats it should only be for very specific things and circumstances. ie, theres no sensitive parts of their work where a diplomat would need to be immune from killing someone while driving drunk (or with no drink for that matter)

Well, if they weren't immune, what would stop a vindictive host country framing them?

Guy:Incognito · 05-10-2019 4:56pm

LegallyAbroad wrote: »

Well, if they weren't immune, what would stop a vindictive host country framing them?

Whats to stop a vindictive host country from murdering them?

If they cant abide by the laws then they shouldn't be allowed all the freedoms. If you can just kill someone while driving and just wash your hands of it then no driving for you, you have to have a driver who is accountable.

Enough is Enough! · 05-10-2019 4:56pm

What an evil bitch. I hope karma gets her.

LegallyAbroad · 05-10-2019 5:00pm

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Whats to stop a vindictive host country from murdering them?

If they cant abide by the laws then they shouldn't be allowed all the freedoms. If you can just kill someone while driving and just wash your hands of it then no driving for you, you have to have a driver who is accountable.

Well, it's a bit harder to explain a dead Diplomat.

But just because we can't come up with rules to 100% protect diplomats, why would that mean we should weaken the protections they currently have?

Boggles · 05-10-2019 5:15pm

So Lethal Weapon was right, I thought it was a myth.

US diplomat's wife flees home claiming diplomatic immunity after fatal collision

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