Look what I 'done'

Leslie91 · 19-03-2012 10:38am #1

What is it with this use of the word 'done'?. Is it being taught in schools these days or what?. I must hear 3 or 4 people a day say 'that's what we done, I done it etc etc.

WTF, why can't people get this right and stop talking like poorly educated morons?.

Fulton Crown · 19-03-2012 10:51am

Leslie91 wrote: »

What is it with this use of the word 'done'?. Is it being taught in schools these days or what?. I must hear 3 or 4 people a day say 'that's what we done, I done it etc etc.

WTF, why can't people get this right and stop talking like poorly educated morons?.

Simple pal - they are poorly educated...and they are morons !

Standard just not there any more...your fighting a loosing battle on the "done" and "seen" stuff that battle is long lost.

Current battle is for the letter "T" under attack everywhere even on the Arr TEE EE Nehwork

Listen to Meeriam ..and the girl tha does the business reports.

Wha I want to know is where did the COIRK and B'FOIR stuff come from ?

Enkidu · 22-03-2012 5:59pm

Leslie91 wrote: »

WTF, why can't people get this right and stop talking like poorly educated morons?.

Why is the original form of the sentence "right"?

deirdremf · 04-05-2012 10:58pm

It's how people talk, like.
Not evrywan wants ta sound like a búk, doncha know?

Janey_Mac · 24-05-2012 1:46pm

They speak like this because that's grammatically correct in the dialect of English they speak. Just like in the dialect I speak I can say "John's after buying bread" to mean "John has bought bread" and it's correct, but say that to someone from another country and they think it's a mistake, it sounds uneducated and wrong to them.

Leslie91 · 24-05-2012 1:49pm

Enkidu wrote: »

Why is the original form of the sentence "right"?

Because it is.

Leslie91 · 24-05-2012 1:51pm

Janey_Mac wrote: »

They speak like this because that's grammatically correct in the dialect of English they speak. Just like in the dialect I speak I can say "John's after buying bread" to mean "John has bought bread" and it's correct, but say that to someone from another country and they think it's a mistake, it sounds uneducated and wrong to them.

I'm not sure I'd go for the dialect excuse when it comes to 'done'. Your example is good you are re-phrasing something and in fairness I'd accept that in conversation. But when the word to be used is 'did', using 'done' is just not acceptable to me. I cringe every time I hear it.

Janey_Mac · 24-05-2012 1:54pm

Leslie91 wrote: »

Because it is.

Says who? What makes it right, and the other wrong?

Look, what's "right" in speech is A) Constantly changing and

The result of a series of chance occurrences by which certain dialects and speech features became linked with prestige, power, money, respect etc. over hundreds of years. This became the standard for what was "right" but everyone else just kept on speaking in their own ways.

Now, it helps if you can speak the standard, prestige dialect of the place you live. It is usually the expected formal dialect in business, job interviews etc. But it's not WRONG to speak your own dialect.

Janey_Mac · 24-05-2012 1:58pm

Leslie91 wrote: »

I'm not sure I'd go for the dialect excuse when it comes to 'done'. Your example is good you are re-phrasing something and in fairness I'd accept that in conversation. But when the word to be used is 'did', using 'done' is just not acceptable to me. I cringe every time I hear it.

Why would it even occur to someone to say "I done it" if it WASN'T in their dialect? It's a rule of grammar dictating which form of "to do" goes in that sentence, and some dialects have the rule that it's "did" and some have the rule that it's "done." It's not a mistake; it's a feature of a dialect.

Janey_Mac · 24-05-2012 2:00pm

Leslie91 wrote: »

I'm not sure I'd go for the dialect excuse when it comes to 'done'. Your example is good you are re-phrasing something and in fairness I'd accept that in conversation. But when the word to be used is 'did', using 'done' is just not acceptable to me. I cringe every time I hear it.

And you cringe because it's not right in your dialect, and also because, let's face it, that particular feature has had a huge degree of class/education stigma attached to it for at least a hundred years.

Enkidu · 24-05-2012 2:08pm

Leslie91 wrote: »

Because it is.

That sentence provides no information.

For instance my father's family always say "childers" for the genitive plural of child, e.g.

I see the children.

but

It is the childers food.

I assume you will be willing to concede that you speak like a moron as you don't correctly form the genitive plural in the historically correct fashion like they do.

Do you also retain the would/should distinction and the shall/will distinction? The subjunctive of the verb to be?, e.t.c., e.t.c.

Janey_Mac · 24-05-2012 2:11pm

Hey Enkidu, descriptivist five!

Leslie91 · 24-05-2012 2:20pm

Enkidu wrote: »

That sentence provides no information.

For instance my father's family always say "childers" for the genitive plural of child, e.g.

I see the children.

but

It is the childers food.

I assume you will be willing to concede that you speak like a moron as you don't correctly form the genitive plural in the historically correct fashion like they do.

Do you also retain the would/should distinction and the shall/will distinction? The subjunctive of the verb to be?, e.t.c., e.t.c.

I use the word 'did' instead of done. In my book that does not make me a moron or a snob.

Leslie91 · 24-05-2012 2:23pm

Janey_Mac wrote: »

Why would it even occur to someone to say "I done it" if it WASN'T in their dialect? It's a rule of grammar dictating which form of "to do" goes in that sentence, and some dialects have the rule that it's "did" and some have the rule that it's "done." It's not a mistake; it's a feature of a dialect.

So we have 'rules of grammar'?. That rule states the word to be used is 'did' no?.

(ignoring dialects for a min....)

Janey_Mac · 24-05-2012 2:27pm

Leslie91 wrote: »

So we have 'rules of grammar'?. That rule states the word to be used is 'did' no?.

(ignoring dialects for a min....)

You can't ignore dialects. You're speaking one. In your dialect, and in standard English dialects, the rule is indeed that "I did" is correct and "I done" is incorrect.

vard · 24-05-2012 2:29pm

Fulton Crown wrote: »

Leslie91 wrote: »

What is it with this use of the word 'done'?. Is it being taught in schools these days or what?. I must hear 3 or 4 people a day say 'that's what we done, I done it etc etc.

WTF, why can't people get this right and stop talking like poorly educated morons?.

Simple pal - they are poorly educated...and they are morons !

Standard just not there any more...your fighting a loosing battle on the "done" and "seen" stuff that battle is long lost.

Current battle is for the letter "T" under attack everywhere even on the Arr TEE EE Nehwork

Listen to Meeriam ..and the girl tha does the business reports.

Wha I want to know is where did the COIRK and B'FOIR stuff come from ?

You spelled losing wrong. Also, your post made no sense.

Leslie91 · 24-05-2012 4:38pm

Janey_Mac wrote: »

You can't ignore dialects. You're speaking one. In your dialect, and in standard English dialects, the rule is indeed that "I did" is correct and "I done" is incorrect.

There is my point....

OK.. so my problem is with 'the dialect' that has people using 'done' instead of 'did'.

Janey_Mac · 24-05-2012 4:45pm

Leslie91 wrote: »

There is my point....

OK.. so my problem is with 'the dialect' that has people using 'done' instead of 'did'.

At last, you admit that it's YOUR problem! People who speak like that aren't wrong or stupid. They're just doing something that gets on your nerves.

castor 1 · 24-05-2012 4:50pm

People that say I done usually also say I seen !
It's bog English !

Leslie91 · 25-05-2012 12:10pm

castor 1 wrote: »

People that say I done usually also say I seen !
It's bog English !

Agree. Well put.

Leslie91 · 25-05-2012 12:17pm

Janey_Mac wrote: »

At last, you admit that it's YOUR problem! People who speak like that aren't wrong or stupid. They're just doing something that gets on your nerves.

I should have used the word 'issue' instead of 'problem'. If by rule of grammar, 'I did' is correct and 'I done' is wrong then this is what the children of Ireland should be taught in school. If a teacher uses 'I done' they should be asked to correct themselves.

Imho, we are doing ourselves a disservice as a people not trying to correct this.

('I seen' is another example)

conor.hogan.2 · 25-05-2012 3:18pm

Could anyone point me to the standards body of the English language?

I will wait.

Micilin Muc · 25-05-2012 3:27pm

I wonder if it's a Hiberno-English thing. A lot of Irish people say 'I seen', 'I done', 'I have ran' instead of the standard past participles of 'I saw', 'I did' or 'I have run'.

Micilin Muc · 25-05-2012 3:29pm

conor.hogan.2 wrote: »

Could anyone point me to the standards body of the English language?

I will wait.

There may be no one body, but the OED and Collins Dictionary are standard dictionaries that also prescribe grammar to a certain degree.

draiochtanois · 25-05-2012 3:31pm

This post has been deleted.

Janey_Mac · 25-05-2012 3:59pm

Micilin Muc wrote: »

I wonder if it's a Hiberno-English thing. A lot of Irish people say 'I seen', 'I done', 'I have ran' instead of the standard past participles of 'I saw', 'I did' or 'I have run'.

Interesting notion; it's definitely not confined to Ireland or "whodunnit" wouldn't have so much currency as a word for a mystery novel in the English-speaking world.

Quick Google shows the phrase "I seen it" used in the UK and Australia, and "I done" and "I seen" are features of Appalachian and some Southern US dialects according to Wikipedia.

So... definitlely not exclusive to Ireland, probably didn't originate in Ireland but it is a feature of many Hiberno-English dialects.

conor.hogan.2 · 25-05-2012 4:12pm

Micilin Muc wrote: »

There may be no one body, but the OED and Collins Dictionary are standard dictionaries that also prescribe grammar to a certain degree.

I know. So my point was there is no standard English no matter what people say. Usage dictates what is acceptable.

Micilin Muc · 25-05-2012 4:19pm

conor.hogan.2 wrote: »

... there is no standard English no matter what people say. Usage dictates what is acceptable.

Acceptable to who?

If I proofread a billboard for Nike that said "I done my best", they wouldn't accept it.

If I said it to friends, they would accept it.

Are you saying the Oxford English Dictionary isn't a standard?

Enkidu · 28-05-2012 11:49am

Leslie91 wrote: »

I use the word 'did' instead of done. In my book that does not make me a moron or a snob.

Exactly and I'm not saying it does.

What I'm pointing out to you is that there are several features in some dialects of English that are historically correct, but I would be certain you don't use in speech (like the genitive plural). However not using these features does not make you a moron, just like using "I done" in speech does not make others morons.

All they are doing is using the verbal adjective/perfective particle/past participle (all three names are valid) for the preterite. Since "do" is an irregular verb anyway, I wouldn't view this as some major corruption.

Enkidu · 28-05-2012 11:57am

Another example is the who/whom distinction. English has case inflections on its relative particles:

who - nominative/accusative
whose - genitive
whom - dative

Many people don't say "whom" anymore, more conservative dialects of English do. For example in my parents area:

The man to whom the childers dinner was given.

Here we have the historically correct genitive plural on the noun "child" and the dative of the relative particle "who". Very few people would say the sentence in this form today, but this does not make them morons.

I personally say "I did" and "I saw" for the preterite. However if I was somebody who said "I done" and "I seen" in speech, I would write "I did" and "I saw" in text. This is because the older preterite is still a part of the nebulous standard English. However it would not make me a moron to use them in my speech if that was my dialect.

Enkidu · 28-05-2012 11:58am

Janey_Mac wrote: »

Hey Enkidu, descriptivist five!

Descriptivists unite!

du Maurier · 28-05-2012 12:00pm

Leslie91 wrote: »

What is it with this use of the word 'done'?. Is it being taught in schools these days or what?. I must hear 3 or 4 people a day say 'that's what we done, I done it etc etc.

WTF, why can't people get this right and stop talking like poorly educated morons?.

I think you've punctuated enough there. The question mark serves to punctuate the end of your sentence. No need for the full stop.

CiaranC · 28-05-2012 12:08pm

Micilin Muc wrote: »

Are you saying the Oxford English Dictionary isn't a standard?

Its a standard, of sorts, for British English. Webster is another, this time for US English. How can people not know there are different dialects of English?

Leslie91 · 28-05-2012 12:17pm

CiaranC wrote: »

Its a standard, of sorts, for British English. Webster is another, this time for US English. How can people not know there are different dialects of English?

If 'I done' and 'I did' come from 2 different dialects and yet 'I did' is the one that appears in 'standards' docs/books and is probably the only one that would pass a proof read test for advertising (see Nike example earlier) then I'm happy the 'dialect' I use/speak has me using 'I did'.

And imho this is what our kids should be encouraged to use be they talking or writing it.

conor.hogan.2 · 28-05-2012 1:36pm

There is no Standard or even "standard". Common usage dictates what is "right", being understood and being able to communicate effectively is paramount.

If I am writing an essay or talking to friends, for example, then what is "right" or at least acceptable will change. It is more about formality than there being any sort of accepted broad "standard" English.

Enkidu · 28-05-2012 3:59pm

Leslie91 wrote: »

If 'I done' and 'I did' come from 2 different dialects and yet 'I did' is the one that appears in 'standards' docs/books and is probably the only one that would pass a proof read test for advertising (see Nike example earlier) then I'm happy the 'dialect' I use/speak has me using 'I did'.

For most of us here in Ireland some part of our speech would not pass such a test. For example your "has me using" is just as divergent as "I done".

Janey_Mac · 28-05-2012 4:25pm

conor.hogan.2 wrote: »

There is no Standard or even "standard". Common usage dictates what is "right", being understood and being able to communicate effectively is paramount.

If I am writing an essay or talking to friends, for example, then what is "right" or at least acceptable will change. It is more about formality than there being any sort of accepted broad "standard" English.

I'm inclined to disagree somewhat; the language used in your essay would be similar to that found in a serious newspaper, which would be similar to that used by a newsreader or someone giving a formal speech. Those would usually all be examples (all probably with exceptions to be found, but we're talking broadly here) of the "standard" dialect in whatever country you were in.

And of course, this "standard" is not fixed and immutable, no more than any dialect is; it's the standard only in that time and that place.

Would you be adverse to the term "privileged dialect" instead of "standard dialect"? After all, the "standard" dialect in any given area is just the one that happened to end up being spoken by a prestige group.

conor.hogan.2 · 28-05-2012 5:07pm

Janey_Mac wrote: »

Would you be adverse to the term "privileged dialect" instead of "standard dialect"? After all, the "standard" dialect in any given area is just the one that happened to end up being spoken by a prestige group.

Kind of as I said this is more "formality" than any sort of standard. It is standard in the sense of being standard (common formal usage) not in being an actual standard (a spec of sorts or something like with French or even Irish).

My gripe with people saying that something is not "standard" or "proper" English in day to day usage (informal speech or on this forum for example) is that there is absolutely no such thing as that "standard"/"Proper" English. The importance is being understood and communicating ideas.

Basically talking about formal instances is a whole other ballgame and obviously is held to higher standards (but that being more about formality, not any sort of actual standard/spec)

Look what I 'done'

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