Turns out veganism is not the answer?

mariaalice · 12-12-2019 11:37am #1

https://theconversation.com/uk/topics/veganism-25812

Interesting article. I knew as soon as we started to see vegan fast food there would be a backlash against veganism.

Stevieluvsye · 12-12-2019 11:38am

Won't be long before this turns to either racism or Left/Right wing politics

eviltwin · 12-12-2019 11:40am

What's the question? I wouldn't be a fan of fast food in general, it's usually crap so why would vegan fast food be any different. Homemade, fresh and non processed is always best.

mariaalice · 12-12-2019 12:08pm

eviltwin wrote: »

What's the question? I wouldn't be a fan of fast food in general, it's usually crap so why would vegan fast food be any different. Homemade, fresh and non processed is always best.

The article maintains that widespread veganism would make poor countries poorer, collapse whole economies end family farms and concrete wealth in massive agri-food business and in the end not help climate change.

jam_mac_jam · 12-12-2019 12:09pm

That's a very interesting article. I don't think veganism is the answer anyway but we do need to consume less animal products, especially in the west.

eviltwin · 12-12-2019 12:10pm

mariaalice wrote: »

The article maintains that widespread veganism would make poor countries poorer, collapse whole economies end family farms and concrete wealth in massive agri-food business and in the end not help climate change.

That's progress for you

Edgware · 12-12-2019 12:39pm

The few vegans that I know are always whinging that they have a cold or a flu. Nothing wrong with vegetarians and there are a few days every week I wouldnt have meat but these vegan gob****es are gone overboard

ancapailldorcha · 12-12-2019 12:43pm

Link dump from dubious website. No thanks.

_Brian · 12-12-2019 12:46pm

Nobody really cares about the ordinary vegan who just goes about their business and does their own thing, that’s their choice, I appreciate they have made a massive commitment based on a personal ethical issue.

What I have zero tolerance for is the loud mouth “activists” who are on a fascist crusade to force everyone to believe as they do, act as they do and eat as they believe.

Consuming animal products is a personal ethical question everyone is allowed decide for themselves. Trying to take that right to choose away from people is fascism plain and simple.

Recent trends have seen desperate activists cling to the incorrect notion that animal farming is the No1 cause of man made climate change. This is absolutely incorrect as consumption of fossil fuels is the No1 contributor to man made climate change.

Remember, 83% of people who chose a vegan lifestyle will return to a normal omnivorous diet within a year. I intentionally use the word normal because humans are omnivores, it’s what we are, it’s an absolute scientific fact.

JohnnyFlash · 12-12-2019 12:49pm

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Link dump from dubious website. No thanks.

Founding Partners

Without the support of Founding Partners The Conversation would not have started. So it’s hats off to University of Aberdeen, University of Birmingham, University of Bradford, University of Bristol, Cardiff University, City, University of London, Durham University, Glasgow Caledonian University, Lancaster University, University of Leeds, University of Liverpool, University of Nottingham, The Open University, Queen's University Belfast, University of Salford, University of Sheffield, University of Surrey, University College London, and University of Warwick who saw the value of helping us develop a new independent information channel that would also showcase the talent and knowledge of the university and research sector.

Bob Harris · 12-12-2019 12:57pm

Veganism is just a branch of the whole 'climate change' movement, along with electric cars and recycling. It's being actively promoted and is now firmly established as mainstream and not some niche hippy fad. Companies will piggy back on this surge in awareness and profit from it. Indeed big business will have been the ones doing a lot of lobbying for change and then primed to make money from it.

ancapailldorcha · 12-12-2019 1:17pm

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Founding Partners

Without the support of Founding Partners The Conversation would not have started. So it’s hats off to University of Aberdeen, University of Birmingham, University of Bradford, University of Bristol, Cardiff University, City, University of London, Durham University, Glasgow Caledonian University, Lancaster University, University of Leeds, University of Liverpool, University of Nottingham, The Open University, Queen's University Belfast, University of Salford, University of Sheffield, University of Surrey, University College London, and University of Warwick who saw the value of helping us develop a new independent information channel that would also showcase the talent and knowledge of the university and research sector.

The OP didn't even link to an article. The whole site is just a link repository.

I don't see what posting this list is supposed to achieve.

Reviews and Books Galore · 12-12-2019 1:17pm

I have a theory that a lot of vegans go to expensive places for vegan food and then go home to eat a whole chicken cooked in bacon and covered with whipped cheese

Edit: Economically, and culturally, it is interesting that the interest in vegetarian food has come when 'poorer' countries are enjoying meat and sometimes as status. Could be just a bit of class, or it being more profitable to sell western meat in other countries than at home.

_Brian · 12-12-2019 1:36pm

Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »

I have a theory that a lot of vegans go to expensive places for vegan food and then go home to eat a whole chicken cooked in bacon and covered with whipped cheese

Edit: Economically, and culturally, it is interesting that the interest in vegetarian food has come when 'poorer' countries are enjoying meat and sometimes as status. Could be just a bit of class, or it being more profitable to sell western meat in other countries than at home.

I would agree venlganism is seen as many as a status badge, that’s why we saw so many “celebs” giving it a go.

Many seem to gain a sense of serious self riotousness from it making themselves feel superior in some way.

Fr_Dougal · 12-12-2019 1:39pm

mariaalice wrote: »

https://theconversation.com/uk/topics/veganism-25812

Interesting article. I knew as soon as we started to see vegan fast food there would be a backlash against veganism.

Seems like you’re wrong https://www.google.ie/

deaglan1 · 12-12-2019 1:44pm

mariaalice wrote: »

https://theconversation.com/uk/topics/veganism-25812

Interesting article. I knew as soon as we started to see vegan fast food there would be a backlash against veganism.

Turns out that you should read who one of the two authors is:

Frédéric Leroy receives research funding from various foundations and councils, incuding the Research Foundation Flanders and his University's Research Council. He is affiliated with the Belgian Association of Meat Science and Technology, an independent and academic non-profit organisation, grouping various Belgian scientists. He is a member of the scientific committee of the Institute Danone Belgium on a non-remunerated basis.

This makes the article somewhat dubious. For every Frédéric Leroy out there, there are plenty of other scientists in the opposite camp who could write a pro-vegan stance. The article is far too general, lacking any depth of factual data & assumes that the woes of the 3rd world can be landed at veganism - not multinationals, outside political interference from the West; internal cultural conflicts; the rise of demagogues supported form the outside; denuding of mineral wealth.....NO, the demon veganism is the great evil.

jam_mac_jam · 12-12-2019 1:44pm

I really respect them. Its a hard thing to be a vegan and you deny yourself a lot for your beliefs. Fair play to them. I can't even be a vegetarian.

mariaalice · 12-12-2019 1:44pm

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

Seems like you’re wrong https://www.google.ie/

If you read my post I neither agree nor disagree with the article the headline of my post is different. It is possible be be interested in something but to not have a posation on the issue.

More importantly, why are some posters so rude and obsessed with being right.

Fr_Dougal · 12-12-2019 1:54pm

mariaalice wrote: »

If you read my post I neither agree nor disagree with the article the headline of my post is different. It is possible be be interested in something but to not have a posation on the issue.

More importantly, why are some posters so rude and obsessed with being right.

You chose

Turns out veganism is not the answer

as the thread title, you’re taking a side.

mariaalice · 12-12-2019 1:59pm

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

You chose as the thread title, you’re taking a side.

That is the title and I should have put a question mark beside it. Are you the person that if I mentioned a film would reply with watch this then name some porn film and think that was hilarious.

mariaalice · 12-12-2019 2:03pm

Also, the anthropological cultural issue of it interests me more, something is hailed as the answer to any issue its fashionable for a while then there is a backlash against it.

Fr_Dougal · 12-12-2019 2:06pm

mariaalice wrote: »

That is the title and I should have put a question mark beside it. Are you the person that if I mentioned a film would reply with watch this then name some porn film and think that was hilarious.

I see you have edited the title now.

I have no interest in discussing porn with you, and am frankly disgusted that you should bring it up in a thread about veganism. I kindly ask you to keep that filth to yourself.

mariaalice · 12-12-2019 2:10pm

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

I see you have edited the title now.

I have no interest in discussing porn with you, and am frankly disgusted that you should bring it up in a thread about veganism. I kindly ask you to keep that filth to yourself.

Vegan porn I am sure its a category.

Bob Harris · 12-12-2019 2:12pm

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

I see you have edited the title now.

I have no interest in discussing porn with you, and am frankly disgusted that you should bring it up in a thread about veganism. I kindly ask you to keep that filth to yourself.

Such a thing to say to you and you a priest father.

_Brian · 12-12-2019 2:35pm

mariaalice wrote: »

Also, the anthropological cultural issue of it interests me more, something is hailed as the answer to any issue its fashionable for a while then there is a backlash against it.

There is much of the backlash because of the extremist activists going about making a nuisance of themselves and pedalling lies. The general public (and I presume ordinary vegans) just hate that sort of vitriol.

Reviews and Books Galore · 12-12-2019 2:38pm

_Brian wrote: »

I would agree venlganism is seen as many as a status badge, that’s why we saw so many “celebs” giving it a go.

Many seem to gain a sense of serious self riotousness from it making themselves feel superior in some way.

I don't really feel any anger towards it tbh. A lot of business people love drinking 'scotch', and a lot of cultured people love drinking 'wine'. Yet, Vodka, which if you go to Eastern europe, can get really intricrate and really impressive, yet there is not the love for it due to percieved 'lower classness'. In the same way that french wine is seen as upper, but Georgian (even thought it is older) has very little mention.

I used to be snobby towards Eastearn European products, but then a bought a euro bottle of wine in some lidl somewhere in some ex soviet part of the world, and was blown away by the taste tbh. Bit of a learning experience on my part tbh.

cgcsb · 12-12-2019 2:47pm

Eating less meat is definitely a good thing from an environmental and health perspective. Going cold turkey, well we don't know what that long term health implications are because nobody has ever been on such an extreme diet for life, as a baby veganism would probably kill you. Anecdotally I know people who were brought up vegitarian and suffer a range of ailments, generally scrawny looking, bad bone density, bad hair, nails and teeth and generally washed out in the face.

I reckon meat twice a week is a ok, avoid the red stuff and then have a fish dish once or twice a week and everything else should be plants and dairy.

loveisdivine · 12-12-2019 2:50pm

Holy crap, 2 pages in and Gozunda isn't here yet.

Graces7 · 12-12-2019 3:41pm

_Brian wrote: »

Nobody really cares about the ordinary vegan who just goes about their business and does their own thing, that’s their choice, I appreciate they have made a massive commitment based on a personal ethical issue.

Remember, 83% of people who chose a vegan lifestyle will return to a normal omnivorous diet within a year. I intentionally use the word normal because humans are omnivores, it’s what we are, it’s an absolute scientific fact.

Optional and selective not obligatory omnivores. Like drinking and smoking, it is a matter of choice so your argument falls apart somewhat

Where do those stats come from by the way?

NORMAL for you is ABNORMAL for others. No such valid term as normal

silverharp · 12-12-2019 4:20pm

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

That's a very interesting article. I don't think veganism is the answer anyway but we do need to consume less animal products, especially in the west.

Why? Some people in some western countries generally need to eat less but why animal products in particular? surely less processed food would be top of the list?

Bob Harris · 12-12-2019 4:31pm

silverharp wrote: »

Why? Some people in some western countries generally need to eat less but why animal products in particular? surely less processed food would be top of the list?

Indeed it seems vegan protein is very processed. One video I saw last night was CO2 + Hydrogen + bacteria + water + iron + sulphur + calcium all mixed in a lab to produce a powder that was 65% protein.

loveisdivine · 12-12-2019 5:15pm

Bob Harris wrote: »

Indeed it seems vegan protein is very processed. One video I saw last night was CO2 + Hydrogen + bacteria + water + iron + sulphur + calcium all mixed in a lab to produce a powder that was 65% protein.

Tofu, tempeh, seitan, quinoa, beans.

Tofu is no more processed than something like ricotta cheese.

Tempeh is cooked beans that are then lightly fermented.

Seitan is the same amount of processing as bread.

Quinoa is a complete protein and has the same level of processing as brown rice.

Beans also have very little processing.

Somedaythefire · 12-12-2019 5:18pm

I genuinely do not understand why you all get so angry and upset about vegans. Chill out and stop caring about how others eat.

jimgoose · 12-12-2019 5:19pm

Indeed not. "Veganism?" is the question. "Hell, no!" is the answer.

_Brian · 12-12-2019 6:08pm

Graces7 wrote: »

Optional and selective not obligatory omnivores. Like drinking and smoking, it is a matter of choice so your argument falls apart somewhat

Where do those stats come from by the way?

NORMAL for you is ABNORMAL for others. No such valid term as normal

When talki about a species you can’t identify individual subject traits.

Drinking and smoking are recreational pastimes where eating is an essential.

If we examine human existence and classify humans we are absolutely omnivores.

Because a small, tiny actually number have made a decision to alter their diet away from the norm does not change the classification of the species.

Humans as a species are omnivores
Vegans as a CHOICE are not.

You may feel there is no such thing as normal, but I can guarantee you “normal” exists as a scientific term, and no matter how special individuals may feel themselves, the vast vast majority are just normal.

Graces7 · 12-12-2019 6:15pm

_Brian wrote: »

When talki about a species you can’t identify individual subject traits.

Drinking and smoking are recreational pastimes where eating is an essential.

If we examine human existence and classify humans we are absolutely without omnivores.

Because a small, tiny actually number have made a decision to alter their diet away from the norm does not change the classification of the species.

Humans as a species are omnivores
Vegans as a CHOICE are not.

Of course you can. We are intelligent beings who make choices . And thus your classification is totally inaccurate and woefully superficial and erroneous.

Far more than vegans make different lifestyle nutritional choices; far more. It is in us to adapt our lifestyle in many ways. And there are many variations of dietary choice and exclusion than you realise so we are not indelibly rigidly programmed to be omnivores

Indeed given how many serious food allergies that can kill us are?

PS. signing off on this ; very tired and unwell and a storm exploding here so please excuse me. Basically though I respect lifestyle choices I do not share or believe in!

Turns out veganism is not the answer?

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