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Tenant causes huge damage in just 3 weeks

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  • 06-01-2011 12:28pm
    #1
    Anon1234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3 ✭


    Hi,

    So here's the story. I have a rental property for the last 2 years. We did a lot of work renovating and updating when we got the property. All now furniture and fittings were installed. We rented to our first tenants in summer 08. They stayed 18mths. They left the place in November last in pristine condition. All looked good. We then rented it out in early December to a single guy. He was in the house 3 weeks when he txted to tell us he was moving out (the day before his rent was due). When we went to see the house we found that it had been trashed. 2 double begs broken. He had a dog in the house who wrecked one of the carpets, pulling at it with his paws. He ate through the lef of one of the kitchen chairs, another chair is broken, living room carpet has massive stains from spills, shower taken apart, back yard covered in dog crap... etc. etc.. It just look slike they used it as a party house for 3 weeks and have cause so much damage

    As he was only in 3 weeks we hadn't even got around to registering with the PTRB - planning to do it this week.

    Deposit doesn't come near covering the damage. So what should I do. I have pictures, but I am tempted to call the Guards to show them the state of the place... what do you think? Then persue him through the small claims court?

    As he was only in 3 weeks and the place was in perfect nic before, can any of this be put down to wear and tear?

    Advice please???


«1

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    #2
    Wompa1
    Registered Users Posts: 8,165 ✭✭✭Wompa1


    Anon1234 wrote: »
    Hi,

    So here's the story. I have a rental property for the last 2 years. We did a lot of work renovating and updating when we got the property. All now furniture and fittings were installed. We rented to our first tenants in summer 08. They stayed 18mths. They left the place in November last in pristine condition. All looked good. We then rented it out in early December to a single guy. He was in the house 3 weeks when he txted to tell us he was moving out (the day before his rent was due). When we went to see the house we found that it had been trashed. 2 double begs broken. He had a dog in the house who wrecked one of the carpets, pulling at it with his paws. He ate through the lef of one of the kitchen chairs, another chair is broken, living room carpet has massive stains from spills, shower taken apart, back yard covered in dog crap... etc. etc.. It just look slike they used it as a party house for 3 weeks and have cause so much damage

    As he was only in 3 weeks we hadn't even got around to registering with the PTRB - planning to do it this week.

    Deposit doesn't come near covering the damage. So what should I do. I have pictures, but I am tempted to call the Guards to show them the state of the place... what do you think? Then persue him through the small claims court?

    As he was only in 3 weeks and the place was in perfect nic before, can any of this be put down to wear and tear?

    Advice please???

    I'm not sure what the legal recourse for this is but I'd go after the guy. Might be no harm going to the Gardai and at least enquiring.


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    #3
    delllat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,388 ✭✭✭delllat


    the guards wont get involved in a house trashed by a party,with no proof of malicious intent and no witnesses they will probably palm you off to the civil courts or the prtb


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    #4
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,093 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    First tenants were there 18 months from Summer 2008 until November 2009 and the second guy moved in the next month (over a year ago) or is there a year missing somewhere?

    The guards probably won't care but the small claims court might be a good bet.


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    #5
    BostonB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,056 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    pickarooney wrote: »
    ... the small claims court might be a good bet.

    I didn't think that this would come under their remit?

    "consumer claims"


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    #6
    Doop
    Registered Users Posts: 1,465 ✭✭✭Doop


    The gaurds wont get involved in a 'civil' matter, but call them if it gives you some piece of mind.

    Also as far as i know you it doesnt come under the remit of the small claims court, as all that is replaced by the prtb. Not 100% certain but all the info is there on the web.

    Unfortunitly this happens all the time, and its very hard to have any recourse against such a tenant. As heart breaking as it is, it is sometimes better to cut your losses fix the place up and forget about him.

    You could in future ask for one and half months deposit or 2, but this will most likely be off putting to prospective tenants... as it is alot of cash upfront.


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    #7
    Treehouse72
    Registered Users Posts: 1,003 ✭✭✭Treehouse72


    Anon1234 wrote: »
    We rented to our first tenants in summer 08. They stayed 18mths....

    ...snip...

    As he was only in 3 weeks we hadn't even got around to registering with the PTRB - planning to do it this week.


    I don't understand this. Were you registered with the PTRB during the previous 18 month tenancy?

    Have you been declaring taxable income to Revenue?


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    #8
    BostonB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,056 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    I assume he means registering the new tenant.


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    #9
    Treehouse72
    Registered Users Posts: 1,003 ✭✭✭Treehouse72


    Ah, I see, thanks BostonB


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    #10
    BostonB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,056 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    That just a guess. Doesn't really matter though. Its cheaper to do nothing than chase the tenant, who probably has no money anyway, and the LL would end up paying his own court/solicitor costs. Tenant knows this, which is why they do it. There is no protection for the LL against this, unless you take 2 or 3 months rent as deposit. Even then, they might not pay for 6 months and do the same damage.


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    #11
    Anon1234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3 ✭Anon1234


    Hi all,

    Thanks for the advice all.. to clarify a few of the posts... it was a typo on the first tennants... they were summer 09 to nov 10 - they were registered with the PTBR and we are fully tax compliant... next clients moved in a few weeks later - early dec.... we hadn't got round to registering them yet.

    I have certainly learned a valuable lesson in all this... i'm gutted by it.... but sounds like i'm going to have to carry the can.


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    #12
    Wompa1
    Registered Users Posts: 8,165 ✭✭✭Wompa1


    Anon1234 wrote: »
    Hi all,

    Thanks for the advice all.. to clarify a few of the posts... it was a typo on the first tennants... they were summer 09 to nov 10 - they were registered with the PTBR and we are fully tax compliant... next clients moved in a few weeks later - early dec.... we hadn't got round to registering them yet.

    I have certainly learned a valuable lesson in all this... i'm gutted by it.... but sounds like i'm going to have to carry the can.

    I've been a perfect tennant for nearly 10 years at this stage. 2 noise complaints which was when I let my sister and her friends stay over and another was from a housemate acting the arse, All bill paid in full, full rent paid all on time.

    I would never ever be a landlord though! Don't care how much I would make, the hardship just isn't worth it, I'd sooner lose all my money on the stock market or make less through a savings account. I don't envy you at all.


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    #13
    BostonB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,056 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    Anon1234 wrote: »
    Hi all,

    Thanks for the advice all.. to clarify a few of the posts... it was a typo on the first tennants... they were summer 09 to nov 10 - they were registered with the PTBR and we are fully tax compliant... next clients moved in a few weeks later - early dec.... we hadn't got round to registering them yet.

    I have certainly learned a valuable lesson in all this... i'm gutted by it.... but sounds like i'm going to have to carry the can.

    As problems go, very annoying and stressful, but not a massive loss in the grand scheme of things. I know someone who's got a tenant not paying rent for 3+ months, and is determined to stay and not pay rent, even changing the locks to prevent the LL access. Threshold advised the tenant it would take the landlord months to get them evicted. The system is broken and it will all end in tears.


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    #14
    delllat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,388 ✭✭✭delllat


    BostonB wrote: »
    As problems go, very annoying and stressful, but not a massive loss in the grand scheme of things. I know someone who's got a tenant not paying rent for 3+ months, and is determined to stay and not pay rent, even changing the locks to prevent the LL access. Threshold advised the tenant it would take the landlord months to get them evicted. The system is broken and it will all end in tears.

    the system is definately stacked heavily in favour of the tenant ,"legally" they can stay as long as they like whether they have money or not

    there are plenty of legal ways to get rid of a problem tenant,you just need to be smart about it and beat them at their own game

    everyone has their breaking point ,if you push them past this they will see you are not a soft touch and they will be happy to move before things get more unpleasant


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    #15
    Kristopherus
    Registered Users Posts: 11,907 ✭✭✭✭Kristopherus


    OP, report the tenant to the Gardai for causing criminal & wanton damage. They will have to do the needful if you follow that route.


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    #16
    BostonB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,056 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    delllat wrote: »
    ....
    there are plenty of legal ways to get rid of a problem tenant,you just need to be smart about it and beat them at their own game...

    For example?


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    #17
    jonnybravo
    Registered Users Posts: 569 ✭✭✭jonnybravo


    If it was me I'd probably threaten the tenant to take him to court and maybe get a solicitors letter. Wouldn't cost too much and might pressurise him enough to pay up. Mightn't work but could be worth a shot.


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    #18
    iguana
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 12,909 Mod ✭✭✭✭iguana


    OP, this might be some sort of solution. As so much of the furniture has been destroyed you might look into just getting rid of it and renting it unfurnished.

    There seem to be quite a lot of people who would prefer an unfurnished rental. (It's certainly my preference - just because it's not right for me to buy a house right now doesn't mean I don't want to sleep in my own, specially chosen bed.) So you wouldn't have to drop the monthly rent but you wouldn't have the outlay of replacing the furniture.

    You are more likely to get a longer term tenant as people with their own furniture are more likely to look for something that bit more permanent. People with furniture are also unlikely to be careless, party people. And you don't have to worry about replacing the furniture whenever something breaks or about cleaning upholstery between tenants.

    It wouldn't hurt to advertise it as unfurnished to get an idea of the response and if you get decent interest you could sell whatever furniture you have in the house that hasn't been trashed and put the cost toward replacing the fixtures which need placing.


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    #19
    BostonB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,056 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    Interesting idea. I don't think its very common. Has anyone any experience of letting/renting an unfurnished property.


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    #20
    ABajaninCork
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,411 ✭✭✭ABajaninCork


    iguana wrote: »
    OP, this might be some sort of solution. As so much of the furniture has been destroyed you might look into just getting rid of it and renting it unfurnished.

    There seem to be quite a lot of people who would prefer an unfurnished rental. (It's certainly my preference - just because it's not right for me to buy a house right now doesn't mean I don't want to sleep in my own, specially chosen bed.) So you wouldn't have to drop the monthly rent but you wouldn't have the outlay of replacing the furniture.

    You are more likely to get a longer term tenant as people with their own furniture are more likely to look for something that bit more permanent. People with furniture are also unlikely to be careless, party people. And you don't have to worry about replacing the furniture whenever something breaks or about cleaning upholstery between tenants.

    It wouldn't hurt to advertise it as unfurnished to get an idea of the response and if you get decent interest you could sell whatever furniture you have in the house that hasn't been trashed and put the cost toward replacing the fixtures which need placing.

    +1. I moved over with the contents of my home, all of which is in good condition. I'm renting furnished, but would much prefer unfurnished as I can move in my own belongings. It's nice to sleep in your own bed, and wash your clothes in your own washing machine. You know the history of the items, and take care of them (I assume!), so you're more likely to take care of the house. IMO, these kind of tenants are a better bet as they tend to be more long-term. It's a shame there's doesn't seem to be a lot of good-quality unfurnished property to rent.


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    #21
    delllat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,388 ✭✭✭delllat


    BostonB wrote: »
    For example?


    make their life unpleasant (legally) ;)

    ring someone like viper debt collection or some other nasty fxxcker and offer them a grand to speak to the tenant about paying up and/or moving out

    nobody wants martin foley and his mates calling around for a chat and AFAIK his service is legal


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    #22
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,245 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    delllat wrote: »
    make their life unpleasant (legally) ;)

    ring someone like viper debt collection or some other nasty fxxcker and offer them a grand to speak to the tenant about paying up and/or moving out

    nobody wants martin foley and his mates calling around for a chat and AFAIK his service is legal
    Lets not go there.


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    #23
    delllat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,388 ✭✭✭delllat


    Victor wrote: »
    Lets not go there.

    just a suggestion :D

    its a very long and expensive road to get someone out by the book if they decide to abuse the current system


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    #24
    wyndham
    Registered Users Posts: 2,284 ✭✭✭wyndham


    Were you aware that he had a dog?

    Realistically, I would be just glad that he is gone. Most of those things can be fixed. Carpet cleaned, dog sh1t cleaned up, etc. It's not an issue for the Gardai anyway.


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    #25
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    ABajaninCork wrote: »
    +1. I moved over with the contents of my home, all of which is in good condition. I'm renting furnished, but would much prefer unfurnished as I can move in my own belongings. It's nice to sleep in your own bed, and wash your clothes in your own washing machine. You know the history of the items, and take care of them (I assume!), so you're more likely to take care of the house. IMO, these kind of tenants are a better bet as they tend to be more long-term. It's a shame there's doesn't seem to be a lot of good-quality unfurnished property to rent.


    Agree in principle, but few can afford to buy - or the moving costs.

    But bad tenants? Oh my... We took this house knowing it was partly furnished. It had been empty a while and they were not going to let it again, but we have some special needs and the setting etc ws fine for us.

    They gutted the kitchen and bathroom and repaced the door ( only the one door in the place) and left us to decide what furniture we wanted o keep. Every piece had been damaged; or messed up with felt tip pens. Scrawls all over the shutters.. obviously because it wasn;t their furniture there was no pride in it.

    But in other places we have been left with .. junk as furniture, you see adverts for such marked "suitable for rentals.."


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    #26
    hoser expat
    Registered Users Posts: 181 ✭✭hoser expat


    iguana wrote: »
    OP, this might be some sort of solution. As so much of the furniture has been destroyed you might look into just getting rid of it and renting it unfurnished.

    There seem to be quite a lot of people who would prefer an unfurnished rental. (It's certainly my preference - just because it's not right for me to buy a house right now doesn't mean I don't want to sleep in my own, specially chosen bed.) So you wouldn't have to drop the monthly rent but you wouldn't have the outlay of replacing the furniture.

    You are more likely to get a longer term tenant as people with their own furniture are more likely to look for something that bit more permanent. People with furniture are also unlikely to be careless, party people. And you don't have to worry about replacing the furniture whenever something breaks or about cleaning upholstery between tenants.

    It wouldn't hurt to advertise it as unfurnished to get an idea of the response and if you get decent interest you could sell whatever furniture you have in the house that hasn't been trashed and put the cost toward replacing the fixtures which need placing.


    I moved to Ireland from Canada with a container load of my own furniture as I owned a house there. Ridiculously difficult to find an unfurnished place in Ireland...and yes there is (I think) an untapped market for it. Or at least part furnished.


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    #27
    iguana
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 12,909 Mod ✭✭✭✭iguana


    hoser expat wrote: »
    I moved to Ireland from Canada with a container load of my own furniture as I owned a house there. Ridiculously difficult to find an unfurnished place in Ireland...and yes there is (I think) an untapped market for it. Or at least part furnished.

    We didn't come quite as far, but we brought a lot of our own furniture back from London with us and got our landlord to agree to remove everything we didn't want. There is definitely a market for unfurnished, especially as it's becoming more common for people who are trading up, to sell their original home first and rent for a while before buying again. Or for people who can't sell to rent their property while renting a bigger home for themselves. Often they will still want to keep their own bed/couch/dining-table for themselves.


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    #28
    delllat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,388 ✭✭✭delllat


    iguana wrote: »
    We didn't come quite as far, but we brought a lot of our own furniture back from London with us and got our landlord to agree to remove everything we didn't want. There is definitely a market for unfurnished, especially as it's becoming more common for people who are trading up, to sell their original home first and rent for a while before buying again. Or for people who can't sell to rent their property while renting a bigger home for themselves. Often they will still want to keep their own bed/couch/dining-table for themselves.

    thats a good point ,some people will point blank refuse to sleep in a bed that god knows how many people have slept in before ,i met a girl who insisted on buying a new double bed for a fully furnished rented house and everybody thought she was nuts

    god knows how these people survive going on holiday in hotels :rolleyes:


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    #29
    iguana
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 12,909 Mod ✭✭✭✭iguana


    delllat wrote: »
    thats a good point ,some people will point blank refuse to sleep in a bed that god knows how many people have slept in before ,i met a girl who insisted on buying a new double bed for a fully furnished rented house and everybody thought she was nuts

    god knows how these people survive going on holiday in hotels :rolleyes:

    There is a big difference between a few nights in a hotel and every single night. You spend 1/3 of your life in bed, if you are only in a place for 1 year, that's 4 whole months you will spend in it. If you have a poor bed it can exacerbate back problems and interfere with your ability to sleep. I bought a specialist bed that conforms to my comfort requirements and is non-allergenic so it doesn't make my husband's eczema worse. I'm not going to spend 4 full months of every year on a 12 year old Bargaintown special.


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    #30
    Dymo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,557 ✭✭✭Dymo


    I think unfurnished would be the right way for renting, tenant buys their own stuff then they don't have to worry about getting their deposit back for damage, same for washing machine and dryers. Landlords probably spend €2,000-€3,000(That basic €500 per bedroom x3 plus dining set and sofa plus extras) furnishing a house first time round and then more when a tenant leaves. I think if they transfered the cost to lowering the rent it would be a better situation they could lower the rent by €200 per month(€2,400 per year)


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    #31
    delllat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,388 ✭✭✭delllat


    Dymo wrote: »
    I think unfurnished would be the right way for renting, tenant buys their own stuff then they don't have to worry about getting their deposit back for damage, same for washing machine and dryers. Landlords probably spend €2,000-€3,000(That basic €500 per bedroom x3 plus dining set and sofa plus extras) furnishing a house first time round and then more when a tenant leaves. I think if they transfered the cost to lowering the rent it would be a better situation they could lower the rent by €200 per month(€2,400 per year)

    theyre only going to spend that €2000-€3000 on the first year

    beds/sofa/dining table/chairs/washing machine and fridge would hopefully have a life cycle of 3 to 5 years

    you are going to lose some % of prospective tenants by not offering a furnished house
    i would like to buy 2 identical houses and test it out for a year but ive always imagined that a furnished house would be more "rentable"


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