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Calving 2019 - Advice and Help thread

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12357…13

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    #122
    agrifan_1090
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭agrifan_1090


    Hi all. I don't post much but I was wondering if anyone has experience with free martin calves. is it worth keeping a twin heifer born with bull atall? is there anyway of testing or knowing if she wouldnt be infertile?? aparantly theres less than 1 in 10 chance of them being fertile but weve had very bad luck getting heifer calves last few years and would be glad of every one we get


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    #123
    tanko
    Registered Users Posts: 9,206 ✭✭✭tanko


    agrifan_1090 wrote: »
    Hi all. I don't post much but I was wondering if anyone has experience with free martin calves. is it worth keeping a twin heifer born with bull atall? is there anyway of testing or knowing if she wouldnt be infertile?? aparantly theres less than 1 in 10 chance of them being fertile but weve had very bad luck getting heifer calves last few years and would be glad of every one we get

    I have a freemarten here expecting her third calf in April so it does happen but very unlikely, dont know the exact odds.
    People say if the heifer is born in a separate cleaning that they will be fertile.
    Scanning when they are big enough to get it done will tell if they can be bred.
    Dont know if a blood test will tell.


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    #124
    agrifan_1090
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭agrifan_1090


    tanko wrote: »
    I have a freemarten here expecting her third calf in April so it does happen but very unlikely, dont know the exact odds.
    People say if the heifer is born in a separate cleaning that they will be fertile.
    Scanning when they are big enough to get it done will tell if they can be bred.
    Dont know if a blood test will tell.

    Cow did seem to have two cleanings. looks like normal heifer calf too often heard they would have head and legs of bull etc


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    #125
    tanko
    Registered Users Posts: 9,206 ✭✭✭tanko


    Most freemartens will never breed but you never know you might be lucky.


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    #126
    Mooooo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,611 ✭✭✭Mooooo


    7% I think is the figure


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    #127
    greysides
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,971 Mod ✭✭✭✭greysides


    There is blood test for freemartins but I'm not sure it's available in this country. Most will be visibly 'wrong' or different as they get older. A vet should be able to give a fairly accurate opinion once they are big enough to handle. Meant to be going meat for eating.

    The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress. Joseph Joubert

    The ultimate purpose of debate is not to produce consensus. It's to promote critical thinking.

    Adam Grant



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    #128
    whelan2
    Registered Users Posts: 29,080 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    greysides wrote: »
    There is blood test for freemartins but I'm not sure it's available in this country. Most will be visibly 'wrong' or different as they get older. A vet should be able to give a fairly accurate opinion once they are big enough to handle. Meant to be going meat for eating.

    I think weatherbys do that test.


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    #129
    patsy_mccabe
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭patsy_mccabe


    whelan2 wrote: »
    I think weatherbys do that test.

    The bull will do it for free. :cool:

    'The Bishops blessed the Blueshirts in Galway, As they sailed beneath the Swastika to Spain'



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    #130
    squinn2912
    Registered Users Posts: 4,679 ✭✭✭squinn2912


    That’s it let her run with the bull and you’ll know. Get the scanning man to take a look. Job done two ways for 2 quid


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    #131
    whelan2
    Registered Users Posts: 29,080 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    squinn2912 wrote: »
    That’s it let her run with the bull and you’ll know. Get the scanning man to take a look. Job done two ways for 2 quid

    The test would tell you sooner, no point keeping her if she's a dud


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    #132
    benneca1
    Registered Users Posts: 485 ✭✭benneca1


    whelan2 wrote: »
    The test would tell you sooner, no point keeping her if she's a dud
    Odds are she is infertile is very rare that they are not. Sell her and put money on Mayo to win all Ireland better odds :)


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    #133
    patsy_mccabe
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭patsy_mccabe


    I had one here one time. Didn't know any better. Bought her in to breed. Never came bulling. She was better than any teaser bull. Jumped up on anything bulling. Bit of a bullish her on her too.

    'The Bishops blessed the Blueshirts in Galway, As they sailed beneath the Swastika to Spain'



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    #134
    RD10
    Registered Users Posts: 530 ✭✭✭RD10


    Have a cow calving here with the hooves in & out for over an hour, how long do ye tend to leave them before checking things out?
    Another hour?


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    #135
    greysides
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,971 Mod ✭✭✭✭greysides


    Two feet, two hours (cow).

    Three hours for a heifer.

    The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress. Joseph Joubert

    The ultimate purpose of debate is not to produce consensus. It's to promote critical thinking.

    Adam Grant



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    #136
    High bike
    Registered Users Posts: 2,275 ✭✭✭High bike


    RD10 wrote: »
    Have a cow calving here with the hooves in & out for over an hour, how long do ye tend to leave them before checking things out?
    Another hour?
    are the hooves turned the right way ?


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    #137
    RD10
    Registered Users Posts: 530 ✭✭✭RD10


    Usually leave it an hour and a half/two hours myself. 5 minutes after i posted she had him out within two mins.
    Was just curious to what everyone else does as she wasn't inclined to lay down and start pushing - patience!


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    #138
    older by the day
    Registered Users Posts: 1,558 ✭✭✭older by the day


    Would anyone not check is the head coming.


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    #139
    golodge
    Registered Users Posts: 276 ✭✭golodge


    If feet are out and made sure that the head is in the place I personally give 30min-1hour for a cow to make a progress. For a heifer- 1hour-1.5. No progress for that long and I come to assist. All those times it payed back. Not sure, maybe some would have calved eventually, maybe not. All the times it's a big calf.


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    #140
    L1985
    Registered Users Posts: 1,018 ✭✭✭L1985


    I always worry once the hooves and nose come out and then go back in a couple of times so I'm glad someone else asked the question. I worry in case the calves breathing is affected so I've intervened if I see it but possibly being over cautious!! And it might be a different anwser if it's just the feet?


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    #141
    downcow
    Registered Users Posts: 11,062 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    I had a heifer last year disowned her calve. In fact was going to kill it. I think I assisted too early and took it from her to quick. Should have gave her longer.
    Anyhow I rescued it a couple of times as she set about killing it.
    I had a neighbour who said he’d sort and brought his dog down and encouraged it to threaten both cow and calf. His theory was she would defend the calve. Instead her and the dog nearly killed each other. Not pretty and not my style.
    I then got word of a local vet who would sort it.
    He gave me two injections. Sorry can’t remember names and maybe some of you can enlighten us all.
    One injection was to make her sleep for about an hour and the other was one that is used to get rid of cleaning. Apparently the same hormone as causes bonding between calf and mother.
    She lay and dozed for about 30 mins with also hormone injection in her and I had calf positioned at her head.
    A total success As she became more awake she started licking calf and they never looked back.
    Hope this helps some of you as it is a massive pain when mother won’t take calf
    Also would be interested if anyone has used it and with what success and what were drugs


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    #142
    grassroot1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,524 ✭✭✭grassroot1


    downcow wrote: »
    I had a heifer last year disowned her calve. In fact was going to kill it. I think I assisted too early and took it from her to quick. Should have gave her longer.
    Anyhow I rescued it a couple of times as she set about killing it.
    I had a neighbour who said he’d sort and brought his dog down and encouraged it to threaten both cow and calf. His theory was she would defend the calve. Instead her and the dog nearly killed each other. Not pretty and not my style.
    I then got word of a local vet who would sort it.
    He gave me two injections. Sorry can’t remember names and maybe some of you can enlighten us all.
    One injection was to make her sleep for about an hour and the other was one that is used to get rid of cleaning. Apparently the same hormone as causes bonding between calf and mother.
    She lay and dozed for about 30 mins with also hormone injection in her and I had calf positioned at her head.
    A total success As she became more awake she started licking calf and they never looked back.
    Hope this helps some of you as it is a massive pain when mother won’t take calf
    Also would be interested if anyone has used it and with what success and what were drugs

    My grandad used to give a sow that was uneasy with bons a large bottle of stout


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    #143
    SuperTortoise
    Registered Users Posts: 2,948 ✭✭✭SuperTortoise


    downcow wrote: »
    I had a heifer last year disowned her calve. In fact was going to kill it. I think I assisted too early and took it from her to quick. Should have gave her longer.
    Anyhow I rescued it a couple of times as she set about killing it.
    I had a neighbour who said he’d sort and brought his dog down and encouraged it to threaten both cow and calf. His theory was she would defend the calve. Instead her and the dog nearly killed each other. Not pretty and not my style.
    I then got word of a local vet who would sort it.
    He gave me two injections. Sorry can’t remember names and maybe some of you can enlighten us all.
    One injection was to make her sleep for about an hour and the other was one that is used to get rid of cleaning. Apparently the same hormone as causes bonding between calf and mother.
    She lay and dozed for about 30 mins with also hormone injection in her and I had calf positioned at her head.
    A total success As she became more awake she started licking calf and they never looked back.
    Hope this helps some of you as it is a massive pain when mother won’t take calf
    Also would be interested if anyone has used it and with what success and what were drugs


    Never knew about that, would be interesting to find out what he gave her.
    The couple of occasions we would have a heifer not take to the calf we would box in the calf in the same pen, we would leave enough room for the heifer to smell and lick the calf but not enough for her to get at the calf and kill it. So far as i can remember all turned out well, might have taken a couple of days to form a bond but they did take eventually.


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    #144
    SuperTortoise
    Registered Users Posts: 2,948 ✭✭✭SuperTortoise


    older by the day wrote: »
    Would anyone not check is the head coming.


    If the cow is forcing and there is no progress after 20 mins then i would, the only thing is it can disturb the cow which sets her back, i suppose the history of the cow calving comes into it as well, i know we have one or two here that will throw out the top of the feet every year and as far as they are concerned it's job done! it's up to me to do the rest!


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    #145
    Mooooo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,611 ✭✭✭Mooooo


    I assume a sedative to calm her and oxytocin if she hasn't cleaned, only works within 2 hrs of calving. I'd say it was just that particular animal didn't take to the calf well, many heifers are anxious after calving and may go over the top in till they calm a bit


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    #146
    downcow
    Registered Users Posts: 11,062 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    Mooooo wrote: »
    I assume a sedative to calm her and oxytocin if she hasn't cleaned, only works within 2 hrs of calving. I'd say it was just that particular animal didn't take to the calf well, many heifers are anxious after calving and may go over the top in till they calm a bit

    Yeah that is exactly what it was oxytocin (thanks). And yes the other was just a drug to give her a wee snooze.
    I have to say the results were very impressive.
    Curious if anyone else has had success with this.


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    #147
    downcow
    Registered Users Posts: 11,062 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    downcow wrote: »
    Yeah that is exactly what it was oxytocin (thanks). And yes the other was just a drug to give her a wee snooze.
    I have to say the results were very impressive.
    Curious if anyone else has had success with this.

    Just googled oxytocin there as that was def it. “Oxytocin is a peptide hormone and neuropeptide. Oxytocin is normally produced by the paraventricular nucleus of the hypothalamus and released by the posterior pituitary. It plays a role in social bonding, sexual reproduction, childbirth, and the period after childbirt”. Hence it’s ability to assist with bonding


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    #148
    whelan2
    Registered Users Posts: 29,080 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    Cousin rang me today looking for biestings he had a crazy suckler cow calved. Had to use loader to get the cow out of the shed.


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    #149
    patsy_mccabe
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭patsy_mccabe


    whelan2 wrote: »
    Cousin rang me today looking for biestings he had a crazy suckler cow calved. Had to use loader to get the cow out of the shed.
    You never relax when you have an animal like that around the place. Like a loaded gun. It's not yourself that you worry about either. It's someone else wondering in to her.

    'The Bishops blessed the Blueshirts in Galway, As they sailed beneath the Swastika to Spain'



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    #150
    whelan2
    Registered Users Posts: 29,080 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    patsy_mccabe wrote: »
    You never relax when you have an animal like that around the place. Like a loaded gun. It's not yourself that you worry about either. It's someone else wondering in to her.

    At least he had the sense not to try and milk her for the calf. Gave him about 2 gallons which should suffice :)


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    #151
    downcow
    Registered Users Posts: 11,062 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    patsy_mccabe wrote: »
    You never relax when you have an animal like that around the place. Like a loaded gun. It's not yourself that you worry about either. It's someone else wondering in to her.

    He needs to put her in burgers. The risk is not worth it. Never mind the hassle.


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