Calving 2019 - Advice and Help thread

wiggy123 · 04-02-2019 5:24pm

started same here-few weeks back-cows getting oats/barley mix.. not huge pile.. are outside anyway-on hay at present... what I find could be key-is females need exercise like... has to help when close to calving,etc...

charolais0153 · 04-02-2019 6:02pm

Bcs is thr most importamt thing in my opinion. Feed a diet just to maintain that then.

grassroot1 · 04-02-2019 8:21pm

blackdog1 wrote:

I most certainly am. start feeding it with the barley oat mix a month from calving. i haven't used a bottle of calcium in years. Cows are quick to calve and generally quick to clean. On the oats , I use a barley oats mix 50/50 and the calves are nice and long but the cows and heifers are well able to calve them. i also use easy calving bulls for heifers to be extra cautious.

Cal mag is magnesium oxide it is used to prevent grass tetany.
It contains no calcium

greysides · 04-02-2019 9:03pm

grassroot1 wrote: »

Cal mag is magnesium oxide it is used to prevent grass tetany.
It contains no calcium

Magnesium is needed for the body to use calcium. Calcium can't be given recalving easily without causing problems but giving Magnesium works.

grassroot1 · 04-02-2019 9:06pm

greysides wrote:

Magnesium is needed for the body to use calcium. Calcium can't be given recalving easily without causing problems but giving Magnesium works.

I stand corrected

dar31 · 04-02-2019 9:06pm

grassroot1 wrote: »

Cal mag is magnesium oxide it is used to prevent grass tetany.
It contains no calcium

Magnesium is probably one of the most important pre calving minerals along with iodine and selenium
Cal mag flake is the most efficient form but can be a bit unpalatible no problem if using a feeder or in water.

The Rabbi · 05-02-2019 2:40am

wiggy123 wrote: »

started same here-few weeks back-cows getting oats/barley mix.. not huge pile.. are outside anyway-on hay at present... what I find could be key-is females need exercise like... has to help when close to calving,etc...

A neighbour always said "feed them hay at the top of the field and water them down the bottom" it seemed to work for him.

Injuryprone · 05-02-2019 3:48pm

First calf landed here this morning. This is her 9th calf and they've all been female. I picked up on the trend after about the fifth one as she was the first xbred to come inside the gate here and you'd pick out most of her offspring a mile away. Whatever genes she has wouldn't half put pay to the sexed semen industry!
Unfortunately there won't be a 10th, however much I'd like to see how far the run will keep going. Her feet are really letting her down, by right she should have gone last year. She's seen the hoofparer so many times, she'd almost roll onto her side herself when he pulls into the yard!

whelan2 · 05-02-2019 7:31pm

First dead calf this evening. Both legs bent back only head coming. Big fr bull. Set of twins earlier. Thank fook this day is nearly over

Mooooo · 06-02-2019 1:36pm

If a calf drinks two litres from the bottle would ye tube them more or leave them off?

Morris Moss · 06-02-2019 2:58pm

Mooooo wrote: »

If a calf drinks two litres from the bottle would ye tube them more or leave them off?

Personally I'd leave them off, 2 litres is enough for a first feed.

Dunedin · 06-02-2019 3:02pm

Mooooo wrote: »

If a calf drinks two litres from the bottle would ye tube them more or leave them off?

Let them off at that stage. That’ll leave them safe and they’ll motor to the cow thereafter- but just keep an eye that they are sucking as the odd one doesn’t unfortunately

Buford T. Justice XIX · 06-02-2019 3:51pm

Mooooo wrote: »

If a calf drinks two litres from the bottle would ye tube them more or leave them off?

I'd tube the 3rd litre into him. 3 litres within 2 hours of the first milking is kind of the minimum amount recommended.

Westernrock · 06-02-2019 7:29pm

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

I'd tube the 3rd litre into him. 3 litres within 2 hours of the first milking is kind of the minimum amount recommended.

It depends if it’s dairy colostrum or suckler colostrum, 2L of thick colostrum from a suckler could contain more antibodies than 3L from a high yielding dairy cow. If a suckler calf gets 2L of good colostrum I wouldn’t be killing myself to get more into them?

Buford T. Justice XIX · 06-02-2019 7:43pm

Westernrock wrote: »

It depends if it’s dairy colostrum or suckler colostrum, 2L of thick colostrum from a suckler could contain more antibodies than 3L from a high yielding dairy cow. If a suckler calf gets 2L of good colostrum I wouldn’t be killing myself to get more into them?

Maybe, a lot would depend on timing and the size of the calf too. Suckler calves would generally be bigger than dairy calves and would need more colostrum and the longer the calf is between birth to getting its first feed, the less colostrum that's going to be absorbed.

We'd be giving over 3L to freshly dropped calves where we can and they are way less work than calves that get less than 3L. And the sucklers colostrum might be thicker but a lot of that would be extra fat and protein rather than antibodies?

RedPeppers · 06-02-2019 9:17pm

Mooooo wrote: »

If a calf drinks two litres from the bottle would ye tube them more or leave them off?

Would always tube the rest, its the one feed i make sure of, after that if they don't take the full 3l i don't push them.

Westernrock · 06-02-2019 9:29pm

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Maybe, a lot would depend on timing and the size of the calf too. Suckler calves would generally be bigger than dairy calves and would need more colostrum and the longer the calf is between birth to getting its first feed, the less colostrum that's going to be absorbed.

We'd be giving over 3L to freshly dropped calves where we can and they are way less work than calves that get less than 3L. And the sucklers colostrum might be thicker but a lot of that would be extra fat and protein rather than antibodies?

It would be higher in everything (higher dm as such) it’s more that the dairy cow has “diluted” colostrum, antibodies are protein essentially so colostrum with higher protein has higher levels of antibodies. I agree though that 3L would be the minimum for dairy calves. Have some lads tube feeding 4L to every calf and find it works for them.

Buford T. Justice XIX · 06-02-2019 9:41pm

Westernrock wrote: »

It would be higher in everything (higher dm as such) it’s more that the dairy cow has “diluted” colostrum, antibodies are protein essentially so colostrum with higher protein has higher levels of antibodies. I agree though that 3L would be the minimum for dairy calves. Have some lads tube feeding 4L to every calf and find it works for them.

I'd milk and tube the sucklers here as well, find it works well and few problems for them calves afterwards. Having a milking machine makes it a bit easier to get the milk, though:pac:

visatorro · 06-02-2019 9:54pm

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Westernrock wrote: »

It would be higher in everything (higher dm as such) it’s more that the dairy cow has “diluted” colostrum, antibodies are protein essentially so colostrum with higher protein has higher levels of antibodies. I agree though that 3L would be the minimum for dairy calves. Have some lads tube feeding 4L to every calf and find it works for them.

I'd milk and tube the sucklers here as well, find it works well and few problems for them calves afterwards. Having a milking machine makes it a bit easier to get the milk, though:pac:

Sucklers aswell. Christ have you not enough to be at?!!

Buford T. Justice XIX · 06-02-2019 9:59pm

visatorro wrote: »

Sucklers aswell. Christ have you not enough to be at?!!

It's herd health, the last few animals I bought brought in loads of diseases with them, BVD, IBR, PI3 etc etc. I got sick of the vet bills and bought a Poly cow and calf so I'd always have a beef bull coming in or sell as needed.

They calve, milked, tubed, tagged and let off with the milkers. Feck all work with them really.

agrifan_1090 · 06-02-2019 10:04pm

Hi all. I don't post much but I was wondering if anyone has experience with free martin calves. is it worth keeping a twin heifer born with bull atall? is there anyway of testing or knowing if she wouldnt be infertile?? aparantly theres less than 1 in 10 chance of them being fertile but weve had very bad luck getting heifer calves last few years and would be glad of every one we get

tanko · 06-02-2019 10:31pm

agrifan_1090 wrote: »

Hi all. I don't post much but I was wondering if anyone has experience with free martin calves. is it worth keeping a twin heifer born with bull atall? is there anyway of testing or knowing if she wouldnt be infertile?? aparantly theres less than 1 in 10 chance of them being fertile but weve had very bad luck getting heifer calves last few years and would be glad of every one we get

I have a freemarten here expecting her third calf in April so it does happen but very unlikely, dont know the exact odds.
People say if the heifer is born in a separate cleaning that they will be fertile.
Scanning when they are big enough to get it done will tell if they can be bred.
Dont know if a blood test will tell.

agrifan_1090 · 06-02-2019 11:54pm

tanko wrote: »

I have a freemarten here expecting her third calf in April so it does happen but very unlikely, dont know the exact odds.
People say if the heifer is born in a separate cleaning that they will be fertile.
Scanning when they are big enough to get it done will tell if they can be bred.
Dont know if a blood test will tell.

Cow did seem to have two cleanings. looks like normal heifer calf too often heard they would have head and legs of bull etc

tanko · 07-02-2019 12:32am

Most freemartens will never breed but you never know you might be lucky.

Mooooo · 07-02-2019 12:45am

7% I think is the figure

greysides · 07-02-2019 1:06am

There is blood test for freemartins but I'm not sure it's available in this country. Most will be visibly 'wrong' or different as they get older. A vet should be able to give a fairly accurate opinion once they are big enough to handle. Meant to be going meat for eating.

whelan2 · 07-02-2019 7:17am

greysides wrote: »

There is blood test for freemartins but I'm not sure it's available in this country. Most will be visibly 'wrong' or different as they get older. A vet should be able to give a fairly accurate opinion once they are big enough to handle. Meant to be going meat for eating.

I think weatherbys do that test.

patsy_mccabe · 07-02-2019 1:34pm

whelan2 wrote: »

I think weatherbys do that test.

The bull will do it for free. :cool:

squinn2912 · 07-02-2019 11:07pm

That’s it let her run with the bull and you’ll know. Get the scanning man to take a look. Job done two ways for 2 quid

whelan2 · 08-02-2019 6:50am

squinn2912 wrote: »

That’s it let her run with the bull and you’ll know. Get the scanning man to take a look. Job done two ways for 2 quid

The test would tell you sooner, no point keeping her if she's a dud

benneca1 · 08-02-2019 3:44pm

whelan2 wrote: »

The test would tell you sooner, no point keeping her if she's a dud

Odds are she is infertile is very rare that they are not. Sell her and put money on Mayo to win all Ireland better odds

patsy_mccabe · 08-02-2019 8:31pm

I had one here one time. Didn't know any better. Bought her in to breed. Never came bulling. She was better than any teaser bull. Jumped up on anything bulling. Bit of a bullish her on her too.

RD10 · 09-02-2019 2:27pm

Have a cow calving here with the hooves in & out for over an hour, how long do ye tend to leave them before checking things out?
Another hour?

greysides · 09-02-2019 2:52pm

Two feet, two hours (cow).

Three hours for a heifer.

High bike · 09-02-2019 3:06pm

RD10 wrote: »

Have a cow calving here with the hooves in & out for over an hour, how long do ye tend to leave them before checking things out?
Another hour?

are the hooves turned the right way ?

RD10 · 09-02-2019 4:41pm

Usually leave it an hour and a half/two hours myself. 5 minutes after i posted she had him out within two mins.
Was just curious to what everyone else does as she wasn't inclined to lay down and start pushing - patience!

older by the day · 09-02-2019 4:49pm

Would anyone not check is the head coming.

golodge · 09-02-2019 5:55pm

If feet are out and made sure that the head is in the place I personally give 30min-1hour for a cow to make a progress. For a heifer- 1hour-1.5. No progress for that long and I come to assist. All those times it payed back. Not sure, maybe some would have calved eventually, maybe not. All the times it's a big calf.

L1985 · 09-02-2019 6:18pm

I always worry once the hooves and nose come out and then go back in a couple of times so I'm glad someone else asked the question. I worry in case the calves breathing is affected so I've intervened if I see it but possibly being over cautious!! And it might be a different anwser if it's just the feet?

downcow · 09-02-2019 6:24pm

I had a heifer last year disowned her calve. In fact was going to kill it. I think I assisted too early and took it from her to quick. Should have gave her longer.
Anyhow I rescued it a couple of times as she set about killing it.
I had a neighbour who said he’d sort and brought his dog down and encouraged it to threaten both cow and calf. His theory was she would defend the calve. Instead her and the dog nearly killed each other. Not pretty and not my style.
I then got word of a local vet who would sort it.
He gave me two injections. Sorry can’t remember names and maybe some of you can enlighten us all.
One injection was to make her sleep for about an hour and the other was one that is used to get rid of cleaning. Apparently the same hormone as causes bonding between calf and mother.
She lay and dozed for about 30 mins with also hormone injection in her and I had calf positioned at her head.
A total success As she became more awake she started licking calf and they never looked back.
Hope this helps some of you as it is a massive pain when mother won’t take calf
Also would be interested if anyone has used it and with what success and what were drugs

grassroot1 · 09-02-2019 6:35pm

downcow wrote: »

I had a heifer last year disowned her calve. In fact was going to kill it. I think I assisted too early and took it from her to quick. Should have gave her longer.
Anyhow I rescued it a couple of times as she set about killing it.
I had a neighbour who said he’d sort and brought his dog down and encouraged it to threaten both cow and calf. His theory was she would defend the calve. Instead her and the dog nearly killed each other. Not pretty and not my style.
I then got word of a local vet who would sort it.
He gave me two injections. Sorry can’t remember names and maybe some of you can enlighten us all.
One injection was to make her sleep for about an hour and the other was one that is used to get rid of cleaning. Apparently the same hormone as causes bonding between calf and mother.
She lay and dozed for about 30 mins with also hormone injection in her and I had calf positioned at her head.
A total success As she became more awake she started licking calf and they never looked back.
Hope this helps some of you as it is a massive pain when mother won’t take calf
Also would be interested if anyone has used it and with what success and what were drugs

My grandad used to give a sow that was uneasy with bons a large bottle of stout

SuperTortoise · 09-02-2019 6:52pm

downcow wrote: »

I had a heifer last year disowned her calve. In fact was going to kill it. I think I assisted too early and took it from her to quick. Should have gave her longer.
Anyhow I rescued it a couple of times as she set about killing it.
I had a neighbour who said he’d sort and brought his dog down and encouraged it to threaten both cow and calf. His theory was she would defend the calve. Instead her and the dog nearly killed each other. Not pretty and not my style.
I then got word of a local vet who would sort it.
He gave me two injections. Sorry can’t remember names and maybe some of you can enlighten us all.
One injection was to make her sleep for about an hour and the other was one that is used to get rid of cleaning. Apparently the same hormone as causes bonding between calf and mother.
She lay and dozed for about 30 mins with also hormone injection in her and I had calf positioned at her head.
A total success As she became more awake she started licking calf and they never looked back.
Hope this helps some of you as it is a massive pain when mother won’t take calf
Also would be interested if anyone has used it and with what success and what were drugs

Never knew about that, would be interesting to find out what he gave her.
The couple of occasions we would have a heifer not take to the calf we would box in the calf in the same pen, we would leave enough room for the heifer to smell and lick the calf but not enough for her to get at the calf and kill it. So far as i can remember all turned out well, might have taken a couple of days to form a bond but they did take eventually.

SuperTortoise · 09-02-2019 6:56pm

older by the day wrote: »

Would anyone not check is the head coming.

If the cow is forcing and there is no progress after 20 mins then i would, the only thing is it can disturb the cow which sets her back, i suppose the history of the cow calving comes into it as well, i know we have one or two here that will throw out the top of the feet every year and as far as they are concerned it's job done! it's up to me to do the rest!

Mooooo · 09-02-2019 7:41pm

I assume a sedative to calm her and oxytocin if she hasn't cleaned, only works within 2 hrs of calving. I'd say it was just that particular animal didn't take to the calf well, many heifers are anxious after calving and may go over the top in till they calm a bit

downcow · 09-02-2019 7:47pm

Mooooo wrote: »

I assume a sedative to calm her and oxytocin if she hasn't cleaned, only works within 2 hrs of calving. I'd say it was just that particular animal didn't take to the calf well, many heifers are anxious after calving and may go over the top in till they calm a bit

Yeah that is exactly what it was oxytocin (thanks). And yes the other was just a drug to give her a wee snooze.
I have to say the results were very impressive.
Curious if anyone else has had success with this.

downcow · 09-02-2019 7:50pm

downcow wrote: »

Yeah that is exactly what it was oxytocin (thanks). And yes the other was just a drug to give her a wee snooze.
I have to say the results were very impressive.
Curious if anyone else has had success with this.

Just googled oxytocin there as that was def it. “Oxytocin is a peptide hormone and neuropeptide. Oxytocin is normally produced by the paraventricular nucleus of the hypothalamus and released by the posterior pituitary. It plays a role in social bonding, sexual reproduction, childbirth, and the period after childbirt”. Hence it’s ability to assist with bonding

whelan2 · 09-02-2019 8:03pm

Cousin rang me today looking for biestings he had a crazy suckler cow calved. Had to use loader to get the cow out of the shed.

patsy_mccabe · 09-02-2019 8:16pm

whelan2 wrote: »

Cousin rang me today looking for biestings he had a crazy suckler cow calved. Had to use loader to get the cow out of the shed.

You never relax when you have an animal like that around the place. Like a loaded gun. It's not yourself that you worry about either. It's someone else wondering in to her.

whelan2 · 09-02-2019 8:30pm

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

You never relax when you have an animal like that around the place. Like a loaded gun. It's not yourself that you worry about either. It's someone else wondering in to her.

At least he had the sense not to try and milk her for the calf. Gave him about 2 gallons which should suffice

downcow · 09-02-2019 8:31pm

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

You never relax when you have an animal like that around the place. Like a loaded gun. It's not yourself that you worry about either. It's someone else wondering in to her.

He needs to put her in burgers. The risk is not worth it. Never mind the hassle.

Calving 2019 - Advice and Help thread

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