Cold timber frame house

pauldnan · 21-04-2019 2:02pm #1

Hi, I've had a timber frame house for a few years now and have tried everything within reason to make it warmer but nothing has really worked. I've sealed around Windows put extra Insulation in attic but didn't seem to make much difference. The problem seems to be at its worst on windy cold days rather than cold calm days so I was guessing it was draught related. Got a Insulation company out to see could they pump the walls but they couldn't for various reasons. Recently when in the attic I had a look at where the walls and stud finish in the attic ie the wallplate level and it's just left open between the brickwork and the timber students all the way around the house. Usually on a block built house there is a closing block put at wallplate level that bridges the outer and inner lead and closed and seals off the cavity. I can't see what Will stop the wind that's gets into the attic traveling down the behind the timber frame and coming out in various places in the house. As i am unfamiliar with timberframe house design I'm looking for advice as is this normal in these type of houses for some reason. Thanks in advance

Metric Tensor · 21-04-2019 2:07pm

Is it a suspended timber floor? If it is I'd be willing to bet that's where the draughts are coming from.

The lack of a cavity closer on its own won't be an issue because the face of the timber frame that points into the cavity usually has a sealed membrane on it. Air movement is actually needed in the cavity of a timber frame house - hence the reason you can't pump it.

Have a look at your floors as a first step.

MrMusician18 · 21-04-2019 2:11pm

pauldnan wrote: »

Hi, I've had a timber frame house for a few years now and have tried everything within reason to make it warmer but nothing has really worked. I've sealed around Windows put extra Insulation in attic but didn't seem to make much difference. The problem seems to be at its worst on windy cold days rather than cold calm days so I was guessing it was draught related. Got a Insulation company out to see could they pump the walls but they couldn't for various reasons. Recently when in the attic I had a look at where the walls and stud finish in the attic ie the wallplate level and it's just left open between the brickwork and the timber students all the way around the house. Usually on a block built house there is a closing block put at wallplate level that bridges the outer and inner lead and closed and seals off the cavity. I can't see what Will stop the wind that's gets into the attic traveling down the behind the timber frame and coming out in various places in the house. As i am unfamiliar with timberframe house design I'm looking for advice as is this normal in these type of houses for some reason. Thanks in advance

A survey with a thermal camera would be a good place to start.

pauldnan · 21-04-2019 2:18pm

Metric Tensor wrote: »

Is it a suspended timber floor? If it is I'd be willing to bet that's where the draughts are coming from.

The lack of a cavity closer on its own won't be an issue because the face of the timber frame that points into the cavity usually has a sealed membrane on it. Air movement is actually needed in the cavity of a timber frame house - hence the reason you can't pump it.

Have a look at your floors as a first step.

Thanks. It's a solid raft foundation so solid floor. Knew it needed to breathe but still can't see how a thin membrane could keep out that level of exposure. Sometimes draught come from the downstairs spotlights so maybe it's not sealed that good behind the wall

pauldnan · 21-04-2019 2:22pm

MrMusician18 wrote: »

A survey with a thermal camera would be a good place to start.

Had a guy in with one but it was old and not very good. I could see how the camera would pick up coldspots as in difference in temperatures but if there s massive draught behind all the walls not sure how successful it would be identifying that problem

Metric Tensor · 21-04-2019 2:45pm

pauldnan wrote: »

Thanks. It's a solid raft foundation so solid floor. Knew it needed to breathe but still can't see how a thin membrane could keep out that level of exposure. Sometimes draught come from the downstairs spotlights so maybe it's not sealed that good behind the wall

Downstairs spots letting in air makes it sound like there's a problem where the joists meet the wall. Not a tremendous amount you can do with that detail without substantial structural work - or as a quick and dirty job you could do some sealing around the spots.

Upstairs spots are a easier fix and also a more common problem.

At any rate you definitely can't seal the cavity on the wall or you will rot the timber frame.

listermint · 21-04-2019 6:45pm

Draughts like this can be a constant pain not to mention just being happy in the house.

You can survey yourself using this. Do each room and note areas of concern

https://www.chimneysheep.co.uk/product/smoke-pencil-pro-draught-detector-field-kit-hard-case/

Calahonda52 · 21-04-2019 7:00pm

Take off a wall vent on the inside and see is the vent fully sealed from outside into the plaster board, my guess is not.. try post a picture, u will need to break up the url as you can't post pics with so few posts: we will then load the picture

BryanF · 21-04-2019 10:57pm

Research vapour barrier/air-tightness membrane

Ask yourself when the house was built, was the above used, and correctly taped /sealed at every penetration

Wartburg · 22-04-2019 9:43am

listermint wrote: »

Draughts like this can be a constant pain not to mention just being happy in the house.

You can survey yourself using this. Do each room and note areas of concern

https://www.chimneysheep.co.uk/product/smoke-pencil-pro-draught-detector-field-kit-hard-case/

Save the money and use a feather duster on a windy day instead. I bought that mentioned device years ago and still regret the purchase.

Wartburg · 22-04-2019 9:51am

I´m afraid that your timber frame structure is not properly covered with an air tight/ vapour control layer. Have seen such issues pretty often - builders where using OSB and a breathable felt on the outside but no membrane on the inside. That leads to massive air infiltration through your external walls. I did a survey on a local timber frame house two years ago, where the "builder" used EPS insulation for in between the studs and just a standard plasterboard towards the room. Frightening regarding insulation/ air tightness and fire rating.

pauldnan · 22-04-2019 12:31pm

Wartburg wrote: »

I´m afraid that your timber frame structure is not properly covered with an air tight/ vapour control layer. Have seen such issues pretty often - builders where using OSB and a breathable felt on the outside but no membrane on the inside. That leads to massive air infiltration through your external walls. I did a survey on a local timber frame house two years ago, where the "builder" used EPS insulation for in between the studs and just a standard plasterboard towards the room. Frightening regarding insulation/ air tightness and fire rating.

Thanks for your reply. And do you mind me asking what advice you have him regarding making it better. The more I think of it though the whole timber frame system for heat retention surely can't be solely down to a light membrane with whatever cold air is blowing outside being allowed to blow around just behind your plasterbord.

Lumen · 22-04-2019 2:26pm

pauldnan wrote: »

Thanks for your reply. And do you mind me asking what advice you have him regarding making it better. The more I think of it though the whole timber frame system for heat retention surely can't be solely down to a light membrane with whatever cold air is blowing outside being allowed to blow around just behind your plasterbord.

The membrane prevents heat loss and other problems through air infiltration (drafts). The insulation prevents heat loss through conduction of heat through the wall.

Wartburg · 22-04-2019 5:20pm

pauldnan wrote: »

Thanks for your reply. And do you mind me asking what advice you have him regarding making it better. The more I think of it though the whole timber frame system for heat retention surely can't be solely down to a light membrane with whatever cold air is blowing outside being allowed to blow around just behind your plasterbord.

The worst affected area in my case had been the bay window and the open access in the utility, where all pipes and cables where brought through the structure into the different areas of the house. Furthermore all window and door reveals where cold and draughty because of tiny gaps between the window frame and the plasterboard.
The bay window area has been completely refurbished, by taking off the plasterboard, removing the fragments of existing insulation (absolutely no insulation above the ceiling), reinsulating, installing of air tight tapes and membranes and installing new plasterboard/ skim coat.
The open void in the utility has been sealed with air tight tapes and membranes.
Around all windows and doors hass been a special air tight sealant applied, to close the cracks.
There were still some parts in the house, where the thermal imaging was shown lack and poor insulation in certain wall and sloped ceiling areas. I recommended to get these issues sorted step by step, whenever a room is due for renovation.
I clearly have to admit that every house is different and you could have complete different sources for poor heat retention and draughts. I highly recommend a qualified survey upfront, consisting of thermal imaging in conjunction with having the house depressurized by a blower door machine.

dok_golf · 23-04-2019 11:58pm

Get a pressure test done. It will show where the draughts are

Calahonda52 · 24-04-2019 8:47am

dok_golf wrote: »

Get a pressure test done. It will show where the draughts are

Calahonda52 wrote: »

Take off a wall vent on the inside and see is the vent fully sealed from outside into the plaster board, my guess is not.. try post a picture, u will need to break up the url as you can't post pics with so few posts: we will then load the picture

IMO, do the above first before paying anyone anything.
I have remediated whole TF estates with this issue

Cold timber frame house

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