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Are you kidding?

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  • 06-04-2019 12:51am
    #1
    auspicious
    Registered Users Posts: 4,497 ✭✭✭


    I was having a browse through The Journal.ie and came across some vegan orientated articles.
    The first one is very recent only half a day old regarding An Taisce's pamphlet available to secondary school teachers to download, and disseminate information on reducing meat consumption and thus reducing one's carbon footprint. All very good.
    What really caught my eye is the poll: should students be encouraged to reduce meat intake as part of their schooling?
    Approximately: of the 11,000 readers who took the poll 50% said yes. 47% no and the rest undecided. I did not expect the yes to be so high.
    It projects a very positive outlook for the future. ( Albeit too little too late in my opinion; the world will be chaotic by the time 2050 arrives due to climate change.)

    ( Granted, I'll retract this part as it is somewhat disingenuous and source cannot be completely verified )


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    #2
    Lady Haywire
    Registered Users Posts: 5,181 ✭✭✭Lady Haywire


    There is no such thing as a rape rack in the farming industry. And if you don't believe me, Google it. You'll see that the majority of mentions it has are activist sites.
    The only mention of it with animals is some loolaa scientist who used a contraption to breed monkeys & it seems to have stemmed from there.


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    #3
    endacl
    Registered Users Posts: 22,232 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    Those who believe it to be true will believe it to be true no matter what those who know it not to be true say or do.

    Funny ol’ world...


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    #4
    lalababa
    Registered Users Posts: 1,726 ✭✭✭lalababa


    What's the story with the farmer on the LL show..why can't he 'provide' for ze cattle he 'loves'?
    BTW , never heard of rape rack and any time I saw a cow being inseminated there was no stanchion.


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    #5
    auspicious
    Registered Users Posts: 4,497 ✭✭✭auspicious


    Lady Haywire wrote: »
    There is no such thing as a rape rack in the farming industry. And if you don't believe me, Google it. You'll see that the majority of mentions it has are activist sites.
    The only mention of it with animals is some loolaa scientist who used a contraption to breed monkeys & it seems to have stemmed from there.

    I believe you mean to say there is no such term.
    There is such a thing, be it a chute or other alternative devices.
    I retracted my piece on it as I cannot state it to be entirely true from only one article source.


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    #6
    auspicious
    Registered Users Posts: 4,497 ✭✭✭auspicious


    lalababa wrote: »
    What's the story with the farmer on the LL show..why can't he 'provide' for ze cattle he 'loves'?
    BTW , never heard of rape rack and any time I saw a cow being inseminated there was no stanchion.

    Chute, pen, stanchion. Cows are too large to be turned upside down.
    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DXycfDqak5DU&ved=2ahUKEwj5y-CTorrhAhUESxUIHd1SABgQwqsBMAJ6BAgHEAg&usg=AOvVaw15tFApwYYIJu6Pg9kTgVwD


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    #7
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    auspicious wrote: »
    I was having a browse through The Journal.ie and came across some vegan orientated articles.
    The first one is very recent only half a day old regarding An Taisce's pamphlet available to secondary school teachers to download, and disseminate information on reducing meat consumption and thus reducing one's carbon footprint. All very good....

    No not very good tbh.

    Who ever wrote / edited / compiled this "Climate Action" - teacher resource pack really are getting their messages mixed up imo.

    Here for example the tick box questions on climate change

    k972u8.png

    Exactly which bits of "cruelty free" (as laudable such sentiments may be) have to do with "climate actions"?

    And even more strangely not a word about food waste or teaching children about this or advocating that they help reduce this.

    ​In Ireland it is estimated that there is over one million tonnes of food waste disposed of each year. The carbon foot print produced by this food waste is huge* - but not a mention - why is that?

    What I find also strange is that they are evidently not advocating for children to reduce or eliminate junk food and associated carbon foot print from their diet. No the kids are being pushed to reduce / give up a healthy part of a normal diet of mainly locally produced foods by a group whose first remit to preserve Irelands built heritage etc eh?

    The pack whilst supposedly lauding a green agenda is in itself mostly rubbish imo.

    *
    The carbon footprint of wasted food is estimated at 3.3 gigatonnes globally. If food waste were a country, it would rank behind only the US and China for greenhouse gas emissions. 

    https://www.dccae.gov.ie/en-ie/news-and-media/press-releases/Pages/Cut-food-waste-this-Christmas.aspx


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    #8
    Eathrin
    Registered Users Posts: 8,076 ✭✭✭Eathrin


    Really delighted to see this in the news. Hopefully it's the start of a big change in how nutrition and ethics is taught in schools. Children want to save this planet and deserve to know the facts.

    Disappointed as ever to see the IFA pushback on this. Some people have no shame.


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    #9
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Eathrin wrote: »
    Really delighted to see this in the news. Hopefully it's the start of a big change in how nutrition and ethics is taught in schools. Children want to save this planet and deserve to know the facts.

    Disappointed as ever to see the IFA pushback on this. Some people have no shame.

    The criticisms are valid as far as I can see.
    We seem to ascribe a lot to children 'wanting' things tbh.

    As pointed out whoever put that together doesn't know a lot about 'Climate Actions" facts or otherwise

    What next? Creationists teaching our school children about evolution?

    This trend could be interesting tbh ...


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    #10
    charolais0153
    Registered Users Posts: 6,225 ✭✭✭charolais0153


    Eathrin wrote: »
    Really delighted to see this in the news. Hopefully it's the start of a big change in how nutrition and ethics is taught in schools. Children want to save this planet and deserve to know the facts.

    Disappointed as ever to see the IFA pushback on this. Some people have no shame.

    I dont think many things can be taken at face value anymore. 40 years ago,plastic was probably seen as better for the environment cos it meant less forests being cut down.

    Personally i dont think mass produced plants with chemicals are helping many in terms of health tbh. The likes of honey are always going to be better alternatives than some artificial sweetner imo but the humble bee is being wiped out by pesticides and what not.


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    #11
    davidjtaylor
    Registered Users Posts: 755 ✭✭✭davidjtaylor


    Eathrin wrote: »
    Really delighted to see this in the news. Hopefully it's the start of a big change in how nutrition and ethics is taught in schools.

    You’re optimistic Eathrin but I hope you’re right. Debate about ethics is essential, especially for inexperienced humans.
    Eathrin wrote: »
    Children want to save this planet and deserve to know the facts.

    And they deserve the outright support of those responsible for the coming climate chaos.


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    #12
    Lady Haywire
    Registered Users Posts: 5,181 ✭✭✭Lady Haywire


    auspicious wrote: »
    I believe you mean to say there is no such term.
    There is such a thing, be it a chute or other alternative devices.
    I retracted my piece on it as I cannot state it to be entirely true from only one article source.

    No there is no such thing. A chute is a chute & an automatic gate is another. Both are necessary when handling cattle for anything (be that worming, injecting, dosing, calving, testing) as cattle do not know when they should stand still or not.
    Even a vegan youtuber has said it's not a correct claim- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G678mQ6zTTY


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    #13
    silverharp
    Registered Users Posts: 17,840 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    i cant say im impressed with veganesque arguments about saving the planet, to make any general improvements the focus should be decarbonising transport and power production and transition to a nuclear electric economy, what people eat is going into the weeds

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



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    #14
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    davidjtaylor wrote: »
    You’re optimistic Eathrin but I hope you’re right. Debate about ethics is essential, especially for inexperienced humans.

    I would agree that ethics as a subject is important. However it is important that what is being taught is based on fact and not misinformation.
    davidjtaylor wrote: »
    And they deserve the outright support of those responsible for the coming climate chaos.

    It's sobering to think that those 'responsible' possibly include every human who has ever lived on this planet. Alhough it is of note that the previous generations have as a whole lived much less resource hungery lives and that perhaps would even include most adults born in the last century. It's unfortunate that each successive generations footprint increases with advances in standards of living and technological advancement and ultimately the absolute mass of humanity.


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    #15
    Tar.Aldarion
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,082 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tar.Aldarion


    Pretty decent result on that poll, times are changing.


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    #16
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Tar.Aldarion wrote: »
    Pretty decent result on that poll, times are changing.

    To be fair the poll is poorly designed through the use of a leading question.

    I'd be very wary of taking any such conclusions from the results tbh.

    The leading question from the poll
    Should teenagers be encouraged to reduce meat intake as part of their schooling?
    : The Leading Question
    One of the biggest mistakes survey creators make is creating a question that leads respondents to give the “correct” answer. Leading questions negate your survey results, so you want to stay away from them at all costs.

    You don’t want to word a survey question in a way that will sway your reader to a particular side. To do this, you must use neutral wording. 

    https://surveytown.com/10-examples-of-biased-survey-questions/

    Unfortunately the wording of that polls fails that basic test - the wording is not neutral. eg - encouraged - reduce - potentially leading to acquiescence bias by respondents.


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    #17
    lalababa
    Registered Users Posts: 1,726 ✭✭✭lalababa


    auspicious wrote: »
    Chute, pen, stanchion. Cows are too large to be turned upside down.
    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DXycfDqak5DU&ved=2ahUKEwj5y-CTorrhAhUESxUIHd1SABgQwqsBMAJ6BAgHEAg&usg=AOvVaw15tFApwYYIJu6Pg9kTgVwD

    Jeasus that just looks so wrong, whats wrong with a few Rams.


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    #18
    davidjtaylor
    Registered Users Posts: 755 ✭✭✭davidjtaylor


    Eathrin wrote: »
    Children want to save this planet and deserve to know the facts.

    Here's how they can do it.
    However, dear climate strikers of the world, since the future you will get is definitely not going to be the future you were hoping for or are still hoping for, this is a fringe choice to which some of you may wish to start giving some thoughts.


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    #19
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    davidjtaylor wrote: »
    Here's how they can do it.

    I agree with most if what that writer says tbh

    One niggle I have is that If we go back to the suvey conducted by the Journal.ie and the question asked. I'm curious as to whom exactly the following question is aimed at.
    Should teenagers be encouraged to reduce meat intake as part of their schooling?

    On the face of it it appears to be aimed at adults encouraging 'teenagers' - in which case we once again have certain adults dictating what teenagers should 'be encouraged' to do...

    I do wonder how much of this movement is 'adult's led and not actually teenager derived...


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    #20
    henryporter
    Registered Users Posts: 2,089 ✭✭✭henryporter


    gozunda wrote: »
    I agree with most if what that writer says tbh

    One niggle I have is that If we go back to the suvey conducted by the Journal.ie and the question asked. I'm curious as to whom exactly the following question is aimed at.



    On the face of it it appears to be aimed at adults encouraging 'teenagers' - in which case we once again have certain adults dictating what teenagers should 'be encouraged' to do...

    I do wonder how much of this movement is 'adult's led and not actually teenager derived...

    Haven’t adults always sought to influence children/teenagers in their choices of food/religion/education etc. I’m not saying that it’s right, but it’s not a good basis for arguing against the poll in question


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    #21
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    henryporter wrote: »
    Haven’t adults always sought to influence children/teenagers in their choices of food/religion/education etc. I’m not saying that it’s right, but it’s not a good basis for arguing against the poll in question

    Not arguing against it in that comment. It's something which occured to me as to who exactly the poll was aimed at. I think it may have been better asked of the teenagers themselves tbh.


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