Income Continuance

Ladjacket · 09-07-2019 3:08pm #1

Received a letter from Revenue telling me I have been selected for a PAYE check for the last few years.

They are looking for Income Continuance - Forward a letter or form PH1 from your permanent health insurance provider stating your annual contribution to the scheme. Also forward confirmation from your employer that tax relief at source is not applied to this contribution.

The only thing I have ever claimed Income Continuance for is the contributions I make on my pension at work.

The woman I spoke to today told me if I have over-claimed for health insurance then I would need to pay it all back - she confused me hugely.

I have asked my current and ex-company for a note to state what I have contributed to my health insurance but it will be nothing as it has been paid as BIK for me.

Has anyone received or heard anything similar?

Riskymove · 09-07-2019 3:11pm

do you have an income continuance policy with an insurer?

are you claiming a tax credit for it?

Ladjacket · 09-07-2019 3:15pm

i wasn't aware of one. I have my health insurance and pension with work.

A few months back I claimed income continuance for the pension contributions I had made for the last few years after receiving a mail from a colleague outlining how to do this.

gerrybbadd · 09-07-2019 3:18pm

Income continuence has nothing to do with your pension

Ladjacket · 09-07-2019 3:22pm

for the income continuance i claimed, i had to get a record of every contribution i made on my pension from 2015-2018 and send accordingly. I received money back from Revenue then after this.

antix80 · 09-07-2019 3:23pm

Pension contributions are tax deductible but if it's done though your payroll your employer will already be giving tax relief on them.

Health Insurance covers medical expenses. You can claim some of the BIK back - do so if you haven't already. You can go back 4 years.

Income continuance/Income protection is a life assurance product that makes a payment to replace your income if you're out of work medium-long term due to illness. You'd probably know if you had it. It's not health insurance and it's not a pension.

They're three completely different products. If you claimed income continuance on your pension, I have bad news for you. You'll have to pay it back.

Pawwed Rig · 09-07-2019 3:27pm

Just get a PHI statement from your employers and submit. It is usually not huge amounts

mbradso2003 · 09-07-2019 3:28pm

If your Income Protection/Continuance is provided by your employer, you are not entitled to claim any relief on these premiums. However, if you pay these premiums yourself to insurer you may entitled to claim relief on these premiums only.

If Pension Contributions are deducted from your salary, tax relief is claimed at source. If you have paid Pension Contributions paid outside payroll you would have to claim relief from Revenue.

Ladjacket · 09-07-2019 3:44pm

have asked employer for PHI form. They have told me that a number of our staff received the same letter this week also and is part of a project that revenue are doing.

Looks like I will be paying back some money indeed.

Ladjacket · 09-07-2019 3:59pm

mbradso2003 wrote: »

If your Income Protection/Continuance is provided by your employer, you are not entitled to claim any relief on these premiums. However, if you pay these premiums yourself to insurer you may entitled to claim relief on these premiums only.

If Pension Contributions are deducted from your salary, tax relief is claimed at source. If you have paid Pension Contributions paid outside payroll you would have to claim relief from Revenue.

Yes, pension contributions are deducted from salary.

relax carry on · 09-07-2019 4:35pm

Did you by any chance attempt to claim tax relief on your medical insurance premium which is paid by your employer and confuse it with income continuance when you were filing in your E-Form 12?

Ladjacket · 09-07-2019 4:40pm

Contents of the email circulated was:

So xxx found out that we can claim a tax return on our pension payments under “Income Continuance” in the form 12-Tax return on revenue.ie.

To calculate your yearly pension cost, you’ll need to review your wage slips for June and July in each year and look at what your pension contribution was, multiply June’s times 6 and july’s times 6 and then add the two together.

So for 2015 you would look at June 2015 wage slip multiply your pension payment x 6 and do the same for July 2015 x 6 to get your total (we have our salary increase in July)

And do this for every year you’re claiming the tax back on.

You need to select the “form 12” for each year and if you’ve done your tax before nothing will change except for what you select in “tax credits & relief”

You will see “Income Continuance” in the health section, the insurers name is “xxx” and the amount is your pension contribution for the tax year.

antix80 · 09-07-2019 4:44pm

Ladjacket wrote: »

You will see “Income Continuance” in the health section, the insurers name is “xxx” and the amount is your pension contribution for the tax year.

Wow. And no one figured out it was bull****?

gerrybbadd · 09-07-2019 4:58pm

Jesus, whoever circulated that pile of steaming shít can expect a nice investigation from Revenue for circulating false information.

Pension contributions are deducted from pay before tax is applied. They are not taxed. There is no tax to be relieved.

Income Continuence is a whole different thing. This seems totally blatant

Pawwed Rig · 09-07-2019 7:39pm

gerrybbadd wrote: »

Jesus, whoever circulated that pile of steaming shít can expect a nice investigation from Revenue for circulating false information.
t

I doubt Revenue would bother. It is a self assessment system so up to each individual to ensure the 'experts' they are using are competent.

Am I correct in reading that everyone in this guys workplace was essentially applying a double pension deduction? If it is it is gonna be expensive. Hopefully they limit their investigation to 4 years but I don't think they would have to in this case.

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing

relax carry on · 09-07-2019 8:40pm

Ladjacket wrote: »

Contents of the email circulated was:

So xxx found out that we can claim a tax return on our pension payments under “Income Continuance” in the form 12-Tax return on revenue.ie.

To calculate your yearly pension cost, you’ll need to review your wage slips for June and July in each year and look at what your pension contribution was, multiply June’s times 6 and july’s times 6 and then add the two together.

So for 2015 you would look at June 2015 wage slip multiply your pension payment x 6 and do the same for July 2015 x 6 to get your total (we have our salary increase in July)

And do this for every year you’re claiming the tax back on.

You need to select the “form 12” for each year and if you’ve done your tax before nothing will change except for what you select in “tax credits & relief”

You will see “Income Continuance” in the health section, the insurers name is “xxx” and the amount is your pension contribution for the tax year.

Do yourself a favour and pass that email on to the caseworker dealing with you. You'll have to pay back any refund not due to you along with interest if due.

Jesus, it shows there's a bit of a problem with workers understanding benefits provided to them by their employers and the taxation implications of those benefits.

wiggle16 · 09-07-2019 11:42pm

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

I doubt Revenue would bother. It is a self assessment system so up to each individual to ensure the 'experts' they are using are competent.

Am I correct in reading that everyone in this guys workplace was essentially applying a double pension deduction? If it is it is gonna be expensive. Hopefully they limit their investigation to 4 years but I don't think they would have to in this case.

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing

No, Revenue are carrying out checks because of this email doing the rounds with a number of company payrolls. It appears to be an innocent mistake by someone in the payroll of a large company somewhere who thought that it could be claimed in this way, which grew legs of its own and was implemented in other companies. It appears to be a relatively recent thing also.

Just as an aside, if anyone thinks they claimed it when doing a Form 12 they should get in touch with Revenue because the longer it goes on the more you may owe when they get around to you.

namenotavailablE · 10-07-2019 12:21am

That might explain why my claim for Income continuance (not done through the 'net pay arrangement') is delayed......

Ladjacket · 10-07-2019 9:32am

thanks everyone for the advice and viewpoints. Yeah it looks like there was a huge amount of these claims based off some shoddy information. I know of at least 10 other people who did the same but have not had any contact from Revenue yet so it looks like it being done at random.

relax carry on · 10-07-2019 1:09pm

Ladjacket wrote: »

thanks everyone for the advice and viewpoints. Yeah it looks like there was a huge amount of these claims based off some shoddy information. I know of at least 10 other people who did the same but have not had any contact from Revenue yet so it looks like it being done at random.

The random nature will cease soon as the pattern becomes clear to Revenue. As already pointed out to you earlier, if any others have claimed it incorrectly, the sooner the better they disclose it to Revenue to cut down in the amount they'll have to pay back.

Ladjacket · 19-07-2019 2:25pm

follow on from this.

I have put together the documents that Revenue are looking for and sending back to them now.

I know of at least 20 other people who did the same process and have not been contacted.

I now wait to hear from Revenue as to the next steps

relax carry on · 19-07-2019 3:07pm

Ladjacket wrote: »

follow on from this.

I have put together the documents that Revenue are looking for and sending back to them now.

I know of at least 20 other people who did the same process and have not been contacted.

I now wait to hear from Revenue as to the next steps

Let us know the outcome. Id be very surprised if those other 20 people aren't contacted especially if the pattern of claims are the same.

Ladjacket · 19-07-2019 3:48pm

so it may have been too little too late but someone who deals with this stuff on a daily basis helped me today and i sent him my P21s and he has come back to tell me that i will owe Revenue 2.2k

A2LUE42 · 19-07-2019 3:59pm

I know of a few large companies where a variation of this has occurred. In these cases the emails instruction was to use BIK numbers for health insurance, which is equally as fraudulent. The email even had a link to a generic newspaper article about unclaimed tax to try and give it a sense of validity.

Ladjacket · 02-08-2019 2:35pm

hey everyone
for those of you following this thread, just thought I would give you an update.

Revenue have been in touch to say I owe them 2.2k

They want it paid in a lump sum in next 30 days. I have told them I cannot afford to do so but I can pay them 800 then offered to have the rest taken off in tax deductions over the next 12 months. Waiting on them to come back to me with an answer on this - they said this has been proposed by many people with the same issues as I faced.

The reason i said 800 is because that is the only amount that was paid into my bank from revenue for this income continuance claim - the remaining 1.4k was applied in form of credits and making up for a USC underpayment etc.

wiggle16 · 02-08-2019 4:59pm

They are normally fairly accommodating when a certain amount is offered up front, but can you tell me, are you self-assesed or PAYE only? ie, do you fill out a Form 12 or a Form 11 to claim your tax credits etc?

Ladjacket · 02-08-2019 5:05pm

PAYE so everything is deducted at source.

I got wind of this email going around in an earlier post and filled in the Form 12 and now I am left with this bill.

My own fault for sure. I was very ignorant to the taxes I am paying so definitely want to learn more about it to avoid this again

wiggle16 · 02-08-2019 5:16pm

They will likely be more amenable to taking it out of your credits then. If you were self-assessed (Form11) they will not do that under any circumstances and you'd have to enter into an installment arrangement with them after having your means assessed to see how much you can reasonably be expected to pay.

Once they see that you are willing to pay it back they're pretty accommodating.

If I were you I would give the Collector General's a call on 01 738 3663 on Tuesday, you could be waiting a while for the tax section to get back to your enquiry and you don't want to get close to the 30 day deadline to find out they want it all up front. The Collector General's are the ones who actually collect the tax. See what they say, you may need to speak to the PAYE section again if they agree to do some of it through your credits.

Either way I would call rather than wait for them to get back to you. It is due for collection in 30 days, until such time as you get another response from Revenue, regardless of whether or not you write to them in the meantime. That's how they see it anyway.

Ladjacket · 04-08-2019 2:30am

wiggle16 wrote: »

They will likely be more amenable to taking it out of your credits then. If you were self-assessed (Form11) they will not do that under any circumstances and you'd have to enter into an installment arrangement with them after having your means assessed to see how much you can reasonably be expected to pay.

Once they see that you are willing to pay it back they're pretty accommodating.

If I were you I would give the Collector General's a call on 01 738 3663 on Tuesday, you could be waiting a while for the tax section to get back to your enquiry and you don't want to get close to the 30 day deadline to find out they want it all up front. The Collector General's are the ones who actually collect the tax. See what they say, you may need to speak to the PAYE section again if they agree to do some of it through your credits.

Either way I would call rather than wait for them to get back to you. It is due for collection in 30 days, until such time as you get another response from Revenue, regardless of whether or not you write to them in the meantime. That's how they see it anyway.

Thanks Wiggle!

Nebelwerfer · 09-09-2019 6:33pm

Hi All,

I find myself in a similar predicament. I am curious what my options here are. Any more news on this to share Ladjacket?

Ladjacket · 10-09-2019 8:32am

I spoke with them and arranged to pay back 880 euro in a one off payment - this was the amount they had given to me in cash back in March.

The remaining 1.4k I owe them (given to me in relief due to help to buy scheme) is going to be deducted monthly from my salary across the next 18 months.

Income Continuance

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