Management Company Issues

Afternoon,

Can you PM me please? I own an apartment. Owner Management Company is asking all the owners for a balconies levy. In general members have experienced horrendous issues with the Owner Management Company BOD. They are extremely ruthless, not working for members, on it for their own benefits. We have tried to rotate directors. On the evening of AGM / EGM they pulled the sand over us. No record of company votes. Seemly they nominate themselves in, no proof of proxy votes. All money.

Murty wrote: »

Afternoon,

Can you PM me please? I own an apartment. Owner Management Company is asking all the owners for a balconies levy. In general members have experienced horrendous issues with the Owner Management Company BOD. They are extremely ruthless, not working for members, on it for their own benefits. We have tried to rotate directors. On the evening of AGM / EGM they pulled the sand over us. No record of company votes. Seemly they nominate themselves in, no proof of proxy votes. All money.

Directors are unit owners, volunteer and are unpaid, how do they benefit? Certainly a degree of ruthlessness is required for the MC to function, getting fees from people who don’t want to pay, dealing with queries/accusations from people who don’t turn up for AGMs can be trying and usually requires a degree of detachment which some do not appreciate.

We had conflict where those who did not have balconies were unhappy with having to pay substantial costs associated with their maintenance. Those with balconies benefit from their use and added value to their property, so it seemed reasonable that they contribute to their maintenance.

Firstly, members did not vote for the board. Board refuse to show members proof in writing of the proxy votes of members who could not attend the AGM / EGM meetings. Not recorded in the minute’s members who voted, seconded and objected. Members are paying their management fees yearly that is not cheap. Board gets defensive when asked any questions, unable to answer, raise their voices. Accounts are unaudited by a unqualified person. Refuse to let us see any bank statements. Paying all our money into a bank account that the developers set-up. We do not know who the two signatures to take our money out from the developers account. All our money could go missing overnight from that bank account, where are we left. Common Areas are not transferred over from the developers. Developers, set-up the management company and became the company directors. They were up in the high courts already for fraud before they left. Now, gone bust. Why are we still using the developers bank account today? They took all the management companies money from the account with them. Clearly did not look after the Common Areas, took the money from owners. Building Investment fund is meant to be in a separate bank account according to the MUD Act 2011. Members do not know where the sinking fund bank account is or if a separate accounts exists. Members got together wrote in bullet points list of things we were not happy with. We sent it by registered post to the company secretary. Board was unable to answer any of the bullet points list, they had to hide behind the company solicitor we are paying, with a load of legal heavy stuff designed to frighten all members off. Answering none of our questions with written correspondences. Members did go to the AGM / EGM meeting to try and solve things, they couldn’t deal with them, they had to walk out of the meetings. Anyone that has tried to stand-up to the board have got shot-down. Members refuse to go to any of the meetings to protect their mental health. They are a very difficult board, crowd of lunatics' make-up their own rules as they go along. Changed House Rules without notifying any members, or a vote. Anyone member that goes against the board or the agent a fine of €150 will be charged to his or her unit account. Not allowed to ask any questions. All our questions is unanswered. They run around heads down acting like miss-behaved kids. Penny-pinching, cost cutting our money charging us more. Discrepancies with the budgets. I am frightening this since I purchased, years and it wearing me out. Board are trying to bully me out. Feeling certain members and the board are not paying for management fees, not honest and telling us. We are supplementing them. No spending. Developers left suddenly less than a year later balconies survey report. No cost breakdown to members. The service charge money collected from all members should have be used for cleaning, fixing the balconies and decking's. This was not done ever. Now, they are looking for money of us all. Where has all our money gone to? Why are we paying management fees for? A nice little apple tart they have on our expense. Feeling some neighbours knows what is going on shut-up about it while the rest of us are paying for them.

Agm votes are confidential for good reason. But tally numbers overall.

Fines are only legal if in the contract lease. House rules in the companies articles don't count.

You can take over the company with an egm at any time. You need to read up on it in terms of process and get members to vote.

Edit: your omc operates in a commercial environment. If they secured a quote for the works and the price goes up they and all members need to pay more. However, this needs to be either via an egm to approve the additional budget costs if needed before works go ahead or the omc uses existing funds which are then recovered in the next budget. You can't just send out a letter for extra money that isn't approved via an agm or egm.

Developers recorded in the AGM minutes they pay for the legal costs of the transfer of the Common Areas to the OMC as per the MUD ACT 2011. Prior to 2011, building should have got an independent engineers survey report done. Boom time property: building was constructed between 2006 to 2008. Developers ought to fix any snags to the Common building including balconies and patios. This should have be completed before and in the year 2011, in compliance to the MUD Act 2011 Law. Developers who became the company directors was still running the Common Area until from 2006 to 2014 and 2015. Developers left, then unexpectedly a balconies survey report was done in 2016 (seems suspect with the dates on balconies survey report just shortly after developers gone). What were the developers doing with the Common Areas from 2006 to 2014 (8 years) when they were running the management company? Developers set-up a Property Agent management company and the man that was running this was related to one of the developers. Property agent was not licenced, nor a qualified builder. Owners was handing their service charge to this man (including cash). Was he even putting owners money into the now bank account? There was a court injunction against the developers. Developers and their relation of Property agent went bust. Property agent nice car keys was taken off him by the bank in the complex 2014, and he had to get the bus home from work.

Common Areas (including balconies and patios) are owned by the management company and therefore, the money from service fees / sinking funds / contingency funds / care takers service / agents flat fees is usually used to maintain the common areas. This includes cleaning, insuring and fixing problems including balconies and decking. Developers and their related property management agent clearly collected the money from the owners, and did not fix any problems throughout the years. Left us with no money. My question is why the board were able to get a balconies survey less than a year after they left. Because, seemly one of the board director has a problem with his balcony, he gets very defensive and raised his voice when members ask any questions. I got a threatening solicitors letter obviously, he instructed the company solicitor to send the legal letter to me designed to shut me up, with no clarification from board, a lot of legal heavy stuff suggesting to the board to charge €650 plus VAT to my unit for her to write to me. I did not hire her services; I never met the woman before. I replied back to the solicitor in her short response was there is nothing legal for her to address here. He brought the balcony levy in and then immediately stepped of the board at the EGM; lied to say the hired agent put the charge on top of our service charges without his constant. Agent was questioned next day they said they went on instructions of our board, who is lying here? It is not our problem he did not get an engineers report on his accompanying balcony to his unit when he bought. In the engineers, report the photos of apartments that is not in our complex. We do not know how many balconies is effected, no overall cost breakdown, no guarantee when fixed.

Ground floor units have decking that is installed upside-down, grooves and ridges is underneath, with no barrier around for safety and privacy. Owners had to install fencing themselves and pay for materials. Ground floor units maintain the decking themselves at their own cost. It is not fair. Ground floor units and housing got together had a meeting and a registered letter was send to the company asking for an independent meeting with the board. This was ignored by the board, who has a problem with his balcony, then he stepped of the board expecting us neighbours to fix his balcony. Ground floor decking wood is rotten underneath, loose floorboards, ordinary screws used during installation not decking screws, now all popped up and rusty. Decking has a life scan between 10-15 years; my one was not maintained ever since build or before purchase. I maintain my ground floor decking myself with decking cleaner. Management Company letting me pay to get my own decking to be fixed at my own cost (is not cheap), which I offered to do, on-top of service charges. Pay on my own three days labour plus materials and pay for someone else’s balcony on top of high service charge fees = total cost €8,000, I do not have that kind of money. Pay freeze in my job with COVID-19. What are we paying high management fees for? Believe me the fees is not cheap, goes up every year. They do nothing, not spending, there is bullying going on.

It is very stressful; I had not enjoyed living in the property I bought at the high market value because constantly fighting boards we did not elect. There is vacancies on the board for up to eight members according to the Company Constitution. I put my nomination forward for the board got shot-down twice; I got many signed nominations from paid up OMC members.
Neighbours refuse and stopped going to the meeting because they cannot deal with the board; they have tried to stand up to them, members got shot-down. Attitude is they are selling and getting out, better to sell and move than deal with them. I have tried my best with this to sort it out on my own with local TD’s and minister for housing report on his deck. I have lots of legal advice, it is expensive €300 an hour plus VAT, €380 plus VAT. Neighbours are letting me fight this on my own, they let me pay for the legal costs and stress and they win on my stress and expense. Other girl that was helping me is selling up and getting out presently. It is so unfair. I am being pushed out also. It is unbelievably horrendous I cannot live my life in my own home like this. Years and years, I saved up so hard to buy my own place on my own. I put my life saving on this property; have so much hassle with it. There is something wrong somewhere.

I have, and the same with my neighbours have no problem handing money over to keep the Common Areas in a good state, this will add value to the building look. However, I do have a problem placing high service charge, sinking fund, contingency fund and balcony levy, agent fees (We are all charged service for AGM etc.) money into one bank account that the two developers set-up. We do not know whom the two signatures are to take our money out of the bank account. We have not seen any of companies’ bank statements. Unaudited yearly accounts, using accountants that the developers used.

What happens if the board (we do not personally, or did not elect) disappears over-night with all owners money in the one bank account? The developers did before they left according to CRO in 2014 barely any cash. If this happens again, we have nothing for bins, lightening, grass cutting etc. There is a huge lack of confidences and trust with the board.

If I knew any of this mess beforehand that the Common Areas was not transferred over from the developers, or if I was told any of this from any of the neighbours I would have ran and not gone ahead with the sale. I did ask the neighbours before purchase and they said the management company was not any good. Neighbours did not know who was on the board, said it was made up owners living there. They couldn't care less. I blame the owners for letting this happen for so long at meetings. I paid an independent property survey myself nothing came up with balconies. Auctioneer did not tell me either during sale or solicitor I paid for her services. Neighbours did not seem to know anything what is happening and they were blaming the hired agent. Hired Agent is working on instructions for our BOD. I copped on within weeks of living there, something was not right. Whole Common Areas is a complete mess. Politics going on.

Developers calculated the service charge fees (yearly budget) as per each unit owners square metres floor space each owner purchased. Developers are meant to transfer this over to the board (Owners) in the AGM minutes. Board have not done this calculation in the yearly budget per the units square metres floor space of what unit owners purchased since developers have left. Perhaps to get more money from all the unit owners, hoping we are pure stupid and won't cop on.

I asked the questions in writing how the yearly service should be calculated per sqm of unit floor space I purchased and why they are not continuing by the Developers unit floor calculations. I am ignored, no answers. They are late with the end of year financial statement of accounts, no copy of invoices with companies Seal that is paid. Now with COVID-19, three lockdowns, lot of unit owners are on the COVID-19 payment scheme, pay freeze in jobs. Owners are threatening to be sent to a debt collector. He wants all high monies in full. He is putting last years high budget again the same for this year, again no members can votes. A total CONTROL thing.


We need JESUS or a power of his or any saints miracles to sort this dreadful mess out with the Common Areas that is still in the Developers name.

Sorry for the long message. Very upsetting at our homes.

Hi there, thank you for your response. I am very frustrated with this since purchase.

EGM: I put my nomination forward for company director a few weeks before the EGM to the hired agent. I asked the agent for receipt, and to confirm everything is good working order with my nomination form; their response back was it was good order. A few hours before the EGM, there was a fee placed on top of the service charges money out of the blue on our units accounts. There was no warning beforehand to the reason why they were placing this figure on top of our high service charges which is not cheap either? The hired agent placed it on all of our unit accounts!
I attended the EGM, two boards members was re-signing off the board. I was told at the EGM by the board chairperson that I could not nominate myself, which I needed to get one signed-up member to nominate me, to keep in line with Company Law. This was the first time I heard this and it not communicated to me before the EGM, and my nomination was sent in a few weeks. It was the same for another member. I asked the question to the Board chairperson why and what was the sum of money placed on our unit accounts? He got defensive and his answer was back to us he knows nothing about it, the agent should not have put that money on top of our service charge without their consent. Agent was questioned next day they said they went on instructions from our board. This is not something they would come out with out of the blue. Now board chairperson had his hands up looked like he was voting for everyone. I asked could we see proof of his proxy votes; he dismissed me as if I knew nothing. Why is the fee still there today and not letting us vote? That money is still on our unit accounts today if board chairperson knew nothing about it. Majority of members did not vote the board. Same board chairperson on the board before less than three years.

AGM: I put my nomination again forward for director. Tried to do it correctly this time and I got a good number of paid up members who nominated me in writing. I sent all nominations forward to the new hired agent. A day before the AGM we were all told we cannot vote because we have not paid for balconies levy even though we paid for service charge including building investment fund in full. Nothing was mentioned about my number of nominations to be director, it was all dismissed at the AGM. It was my first AGM of that company and it was so horrible. I was humiliated in front of strangers. I had to walk out of that AGM. I was at the back of the meeting room when board secretary walked over to me handing me a book on the law, it was a present from the board to me. This was on done on purpose to try to provoke me. It was upsetting afterwards we had no meetings since.

I have contacted MUD solicitors already, their cost is expensive €300 an hour plus VAT. Another €385 an hour plus VAT. Cost a lot of legal money. Board will use our money of the companies’ solicitor to write back, hence pay double for legal cost and charge to my unit. I asked neighbours to chip in; they make up excuses, and are not interested. Neighbours expect me fight this on my own, pay legal costs and take on all the stress myself. Neighbours win on my stress and cost.

There is a click of people on the board with politics. They do not want anyone else on the board. Developers are gone bust – someone said they are in business again under a different name. I have received verbal abuse from the board partner, when I was asking what is going on. I experienced bullying also.

Yet, another member is able to nominate herself and got herself elected on the board. One rule for certain member, different rule for someone else.

I will never ever buy an apartment again in Ireland because of my horrible experiences with this companies boards. None of my friends, or work colleagues who own apartments for years have this experienced this hassle ever. Some of my friends are landlords. They are suggesting I need to get this sorted. They are shocked what I am experiencing. It so wrong and very unfair.

Yes, it is true I paid the service charge fees in full before the EGM. On the night of the meeting was told I could not nominate myself, that I needed a signed up member who paid their fees in full to nominate me. Yet, they were unable to tell me this information two weeks beforehand to prepare. Votes should have gone to the floor.

Day before the last AGM agent rang everyone; all my nominees and me had paid the service charge in full. We were told again, we could not vote because we have not paid for a balcony levy. Another thing that was not voted right.

Here’s, another mess. Two balconies surveys’ dates was complete when I was not even the registered owner of the unit or even a member of the management company by then and not living there. It is not my fault they did not agree a price with all members before I purchased. Levy should be placed to the previous owner not me. Auctioneer or Solicitor did not tell me during the sale process they was a problem with any balconies. If they both did say this, I could have walked away or asked for a reduced price. I would not be in this horrible position. There is no special condition written in the contract of sale that I signed my name and agreed in the contract to pay for a balcony levy during purchase. After the meeting the agent in accounts read out on the phone a list of services I owed which I will pay always, then she said my unit is exempt for the balconies levy. I asked for statement in writing, still waiting. Now, she is denying she ever said it.

Humiliation I received at the AGM from this company is beyond shocking. Company solicitor was present and a witness, she had her head down said nothing. Board chairperson roared at me like a lion when I told him my ground floor decking is dangerous and slippery, like an ice ring in the damp and icy weather because is installed upside down, smooth side is on top, grooves and ridges to give more of a grip when walking, drains water is underneath. I did nearly fall over myself a few times. Agent had to shout at him to stop it. Management Company will not fix my decking they have no money. I have no fence or barrier around the decking for privacy and safety. I cannot sit out on the decking on a sunny day with a chair. Anyone day or night can walk up to my patio door.

In addition, no lights at the back of the complex, complete darkness. I had someone shooting up drugs at my bedroom window in the middle of the night. Drug person left scatters of tin foils at my bedroom window. Community Guards gave their recommendations to the management company, ignored. Pointed this out to the management company numerous of times and I am ignored again and again. Fighting with them for years to install just one senor lights for safety. Management would be afraid it will cost more on our electricity bill forget about people’s health, safety and mental health.

This company is a shambles and it is run very poorly. I am stuck with it unless I sell. Won't let me sell until all fees are paid, we are over-charged for fees - again ignored.

Katie Green wrote: »

I just bought an apartment and was thinking for getting on the board in our complex. I was looking for posts about management agents. Sounds like a horrible experience. It’s your home you should feel safe in it and it’s agent’s job to fix things around the place. To be honest your story puts me of my idea. Can anyone tell me what is the approximate going rate for service charge? I am in 2 bed apartment.

Get on the board asap, nobody is going to protect your investment like you can. It's also very much a learning experience.

Service charges vary based on services and facilities but they're generally a percentage of the development budget.

Doop wrote: »

While this is true it is very important to understand the liability that a board member can carry and be personally liable for. All I'm saying is it is not to be taking too lightly. I deal with a lot of Boards in developments that have fire safety deficiencies and I wouldn't take it on myself!

That's why directors liability insurance is very important

kravmaga wrote: »

For a 2 bed apt if in Dublin surburbs I would say between €950 and €1,200 approx ,depends on location and the size of the development.

Think ours are able 800 for a 2 bed, D15. No lifts, gates or underground car park