I can't do this any more

sashbash · 28-03-2015 11:31am #1

My ex is always late for access, bullys me, doesn't care about my child, only comes down to say he's been down, and doesn't pay maintenance. I can't do it any more. He says it.doesn't matter that he's late but it does. It's not respectful to any one, most of all my child. I couldn't hold it any more and went mad at him in front of my little baby. I feel horrible now

I broke down crying and I haven't cried in so long. I am just so broken, I don't have any strength left in me.

m'lady · 28-03-2015 11:43am

sashbash wrote: »

My ex is always late for access, bullys me, doesn't care about my child, only comes down to say he's been down, and doesn't pay maintenance. I can't do it any more. He says it.doesn't matter that he's late but it does. It's not respectful to any one, most of all my child. I couldn't hold it any more and went mad at him in front of my little baby. I feel horrible now I broke down crying and I haven't cried in so long. I am just so broken, I don't have any strength left in me.

You poor thing, first things first- try and calm down, deep breaths and make yourself a cup of tea/coffee. Do you have any friend you can call on at this hour of need? Your possibly exhausted.

I don't want to bombard you with questions right now, but I will say that you should be getting maintenance, but I think that's secondary to what you've to deal with. This bullying has to stop, and you need to gain your strength to stop it.

Has he family that you could speak with maybe?

animum · 28-03-2015 11:51am

hi op...

so sorry to hear this. I have been through similar, and unfortunately, in my experience the other parent will not change. the only way I cope is for me to change how I view it, if he doesn't pay etc...I'll pay myself. if he is late, I make my plans later on after collection times.
I found that by letting him do this and upset me, I was still being controlled, he was stealing my happiness.

my son is ten now, and up until recently, I allowed myself to get upset, hence I have never moved on in my own life. my son loves his dad dearly. I used to be jealous of this, it's not healthy or a nice thing to say but it's honest. I used to want my son to see all that I do by myself. one day he will thank me, but for now I know my son wants for or needs nothin, no matter who provides it..and that's what matters most.

it's not an easy journey doing it on your own, especially with someone who goes against the grain and isn't helpful.

I may seem like a pushover, but in reality, I would never stop their relationship and I don't have the time or energy to go to court for lateness etc.

not much advice there, just letting you know , you're not alone, and your child will grow up with security, stability and love, a feeling he will have inside, from you and yer home. you seem like a great mom..

sashbash · 28-03-2015 12:18pm

I don't know his family. I live in a different county to him. It's so hard not to get worked up about it because I know he doesn't care about my child. He tries to butter me up but I can see through him. I'm driven demented by him

MrMojoRising · 28-03-2015 12:23pm

sashbash wrote: »

I don't know his family. I live in a different county to him. It's so hard not to get worked up about it because I know he doesn't care about my child. He tries to butter me up but I can see through him. I'm driven demented by him

You have a child with him, yet don't know his family?

Why is this?

sashbash · 28-03-2015 12:45pm

MrMojoRising wrote: »

You have a child with him, yet don't know his family?
Why is this?

It was a fling.

January · 28-03-2015 12:49pm

MrMojoRising wrote: »

You have a child with him, yet don't know his family?
Why is this?

None of your business really.

mikom · 28-03-2015 1:08pm

MrMojoRising wrote: »

You have a child with him, yet don't know his family?
Why is this?

Shur why would you want to know someones family before you have a child with them?
It's not like it helps to know the character of those you may be bonded for life with........

January · 28-03-2015 1:57pm

Enough. There will be no more discussion of why the OP does not know her child's fathers family that well.

MrMojoRising · 28-03-2015 2:33pm

At the moment he faces no retribution from anyone but you. Hence he acts as he pleases.

If his family were involved / knew of his behaviour, its less likely that he'd be acting as he does now.

Might be worth introducing your child to their uncle/aunt/granny/grandad and see does that improve the situation.

January wrote: »

None of your business really.

God forbid someone ask a question on an internet forum :rolleyes:

eviltwin · 28-03-2015 4:12pm

Does he have court ordered access in place? How old is your child? I usually am of the opinion that its really important for a child to have a relationship with both parents but in a situation where one of the parents is a bully and not adding anything positive to a child's life I'd be inclined to think maybe the child is better off not having contact until the parent sorts themselves out.

notthedoctor · 28-03-2015 4:20pm

mikom wrote: »

Shur why would you want to know someones family before you have a child with them?
It's not like it helps to know the character of those you may be bonded for life with........

No harm in asking. Another out of wedlock child brought up as a result of 2 irresponsible adults who doesn't care about contraception.

Op get it real, u don't know the guy! He doesn't know u either! U can't expect him to become father of the year and pick up the pieces of your mistake (always the woman left with the child). U decided to go ahead with the pregnancy, be a responsible parent and move on with your life. Stop creating dtsma in front of the child.

eviltwin · 28-03-2015 4:43pm

notthedoctor wrote: »

No harm in asking. Another out of wedlock child brought up as a result of 2 irresponsible adults who doesn't care about contraception.

Op get it real, u don't know the guy! He doesn't know u either! U can't expect him to become father of the year and pick up the pieces of your mistake (always the woman left with the child). U decided to go ahead with the pregnancy, be a responsible parent and move on with your life. Stop creating dtsma in front of the child.

That's completely uncalled for. You don't know the circumstances here and regardless of their marital or relationship status there is no reason why they can't co parent their child. Many couples do. There is no excuse for him not supporting his child or being a bully to the child or its mother. If he doesn't want to be in his child's life then he should go away but playing games and being abusive is not acceptable regardless of the circumstances. I think the OP comes across as a very responsible parent.

Cold War Kid · 28-03-2015 6:17pm

notthedoctor wrote: »

No harm in asking. Another out of wedlock child brought up as a result of 2 irresponsible adults who doesn't care about contraception.

Op get it real, u don't know the guy! He doesn't know u either! U can't expect him to become father of the year and pick up the pieces of your mistake (always the woman left with the child). U decided to go ahead with the pregnancy, be a responsible parent and move on with your life. Stop creating dtsma in front of the child.

Where has she indicated she expects him to be father of the year?

sashbash · 28-03-2015 8:36pm

notthedoctor wrote: »

No harm in asking. Another out of wedlock child brought up as a result of 2 irresponsible adults who doesn't care about contraception.

Op get it real, u don't know the guy! He doesn't know u either! U can't expect him to become father of the year and pick up the pieces of your mistake (always the woman left with the child). U decided to go ahead with the pregnancy, be a responsible parent and move on with your life. Stop creating dtsma in front of the child.

Excuse me but firat of all you do not know the situation. this is the first time that i have raised my voice to him, and only because I'm at the end of my ttether.and second of all, how do you know we didn't care about contraception? Not that its any of your business but there were two types of contraception at use ay the time of conceiving.

I am not expecting him to be father of the year. I am expecting him to show some respect towards his child and to stop bullying me.

pwurple · 29-03-2015 11:35am

Stop tolerating the lateness. It is the height of rudeness. Some people just got away with it as children and need it trained out of them as adults by the rest of us. I've had to do this with a couple of my friends, and I've done it at work. People generally know that if they don't show up at the arranged time, I'll be off doing something else without them.

If you make an arrangement for him to visit at a certain time, and he's not there within 15 mins of it... Leave the house. Go to the park or the shops with the child.

He misses the appointment, he loses out. Not you.

Make it clear you consider lateness a "No Show". It's not on. Send a message saying something like "pity you didn't show up, gone out" as you leave.

zeffabelli · 29-03-2015 1:40pm

Fifteen minutes that's it. If he is late more than three times. Pull the whole thing.

Put together an access and maintenance schedule.

No one needs this in their life.

WoollyRedHat · 29-03-2015 1:42pm

MrMojoRising wrote: »

God forbid someone ask a question on an internet forum :rolleyes:

It doesn't give you free roam... that's a personal question, have some tact....

notthedoctor · 29-03-2015 3:15pm

sashbash wrote: »

My ex is always late for access, bullys me, doesn't care about my child, only comes down to say he's been down, and doesn't pay maintenance

A few days ago...

My ex doesn't care about my child. he pays €10 a week maintenance and has missed it a good few times. I had to bring him back to court last year because he wasnt paying. . He's missing payments again and has just informed me it will be a few months until he can pay again.

There's a big difference between not paying at all and paying (as small as the contribution is) something, missing a couple payments and informing you there will be a few months until the arrears are paid... What about be truth to the fellow boarders before asking for advice?!

Big Bag of Chips · 29-03-2015 4:08pm

notthedoctor wrote: »

He's missing payments again and has just informed me it will be a few months until he can pay again.

= doesn't pay maintenance.

Is access court ordered? If it is give him 20 mins max and then go to your local garda station to have the order dated and stamped to show that he didn't show up. Don't sit around waiting for him. If he does show up and rings/texts to know where you are bring your phone to the station to have the record the time of the call/text to prove what time he showed up.

It mightn't change him, but at least if you go back to court you will have written evidence of the times he didn't show up, or showed up late.

A tenner a week is nothing, and there is no reason that he will not be able to pay it for a few months other than he doesn't want to give it to you.

Go back to court again. The judge could order that the maintenance be paid to the court and then transferred to you. If he misses a few payments, the courts would soon be on to him.

You mention your child is a baby. You have a long long road ahead of you dealing with this fella. The fight might seem like the hardest thing to do right now , and it will be hard and you will be upset. But if you don't do this then you will have years of him being difficult and coming and going as he pleases. So your choice is to get things sorted now, however difficult it may be. Or live the next 20 years of your life wondering what he's going to do/not do.

zeffabelli · 29-03-2015 4:11pm

Just to add to Big Bag o Chips very astute take on things, sometimes it can take a couple of years to get things stablised.

It's easy to forget a single dad knows he is never ever going to live with his child. That has to create ambivalence.

January · 29-03-2015 4:13pm

notthedoctor wrote: »

A few days ago...

My ex doesn't care about my child. he pays €10 a week maintenance and has missed it a good few times. I had to bring him back to court last year because he wasnt paying. . He's missing payments again and has just informed me it will be a few months until he can pay again.

There's a big difference between not paying at all and paying (as small as the contribution is) something, missing a couple payments and informing you there will be a few months until the arrears are paid... What about be truth to the fellow boarders before asking for advice?!

Picking apart posters posts and telling them to tell the truth is not on. If you've a problem with a post, report it.

constance tench · 30-03-2015 3:30am

It is important to keep a diary of the no shows and bullying OP.
If he pays maintenance, be sure to give him a receipt.

sashbash · 01-04-2015 10:48am

Thanks for all your replies. I'm trying not to let him get to me too much. I have let him control my thoughts for ages now and I am tired of spending all my energy on him. But I don't know what to do for the best. I did want my child to know their father but it's hard to know whether it will be worth it in the long run if he's going to be half-arsed about it. I don't want to go back to court because it's exhausting, but I also don't want to leave it and ignore what he's doing. I really don't know what is best. Thanks for taking the time to reply to this though.

zeffabelli · 01-04-2015 10:51am

sashbash wrote: »

Thanks for all your replies. I'm trying not to let him get to me too much. I have let him control my thoughts for ages now and I am tired of spending all my energy on him. But I don't know what to do for the best. I did want my child to know their father but it's hard to know whether it will be worth it in the long run if he's going to be half-arsed about it. I don't want to go back to court because it's exhausting, but I also don't want to leave it and ignore what he's doing. I really don't know what is best. Thanks for taking the time to reply to this though.

This is the million dollar question for all single mothers negotiating with ambivalent fathers.

Honestly, having learned from bitter experience, I'd leave him to it and focus your energies on you and your baby.

Playing peek a boo like this is no good.

Day Lewin · 01-04-2015 11:06am

Friends, surely the access to the child by the father is for the child's benefit.

Either it is good for a kid to know their father, or it's not: but in my opinion, a Father is not the same as a Mother and a child is entitled to their male parent if circumstances allow.

So, it's a shame that the father in this case is annoying, irresponsible, hostile etc etc etc
But trying to score a point against him by depriving the child of their father - well, sorry, OP: no offense meant, and I can see the frustration of your position; but don't make the child pay for your relationship troubles.

(sorry to sound blunt: this is sincere)

@pwurple, you wrote "He misses the appointment, he loses out. Not you."

-Unfortunately, it's the child who loses out, more than any adult.

It's an awkward and painful situation, but it was made by grownups and needs to be solved by grownups, who keep the child's best interest as their first priority, and not their own feelings or history.

Just my tuppenceworth, and meaning no disrespect at all to the lady OP

sashbash · 01-04-2015 11:38am

katemarch wrote: »

Friends, surely the access to the child by the father is for the child's benefit.

Either it is good for a kid to know their father, or it's not: but in my opinion, a Father is not the same as a Mother and a child is entitled to their male parent if circumstances allow.

So, it's a shame that the father in this case is annoying, irresponsible, hostile etc etc etc
But trying to score a point against him by depriving the child of their father - well, sorry, OP: no offense meant, and I can see the frustration of your position; but don't make the child pay for your relationship troubles.

(sorry to sound blunt: this is sincere)

@pwurple, you wrote "He misses the appointment, he loses out. Not you."

-Unfortunately, it's the child who loses out, more than any adult.

It's an awkward and painful situation, but it was made by grownups and needs to be solved by grownups, who keep the child's best interest as their first priority, and not their own feelings or history.

Just my tuppenceworth, and meaning no disrespect at all to the lady OP

I understand what you are saying and I am keeping my child's best interests at heart. If I wasn't, I'd have stopped access a long time ago. But I want to give it my all. It's hard now because my child is still young and they don't know any different, but I am thinking of when they are older, how is it going to be? But as I said in a few posts back, I'm trying to move on and just forget about it and just let what happens, happen. I will still keep a diary of things if it ever got to the stage that I have to go back to court.

eviltwin · 01-04-2015 11:40am

katemarch wrote: »

Friends, surely the access to the child by the father is for the child's benefit.

Either it is good for a kid to know their father, or it's not: but in my opinion, a Father is not the same as a Mother and a child is entitled to their male parent if circumstances allow.

So, it's a shame that the father in this case is annoying, irresponsible, hostile etc etc etc
But trying to score a point against him by depriving the child of their father - well, sorry, OP: no offense meant, and I can see the frustration of your position; but don't make the child pay for your relationship troubles.

(sorry to sound blunt: this is sincere)

@pwurple, you wrote "He misses the appointment, he loses out. Not you."

-Unfortunately, it's the child who loses out, more than any adult.

It's an awkward and painful situation, but it was made by grownups and needs to be solved by grownups, who keep the child's best interest as their first priority, and not their own feelings or history.

Just my tuppenceworth, and meaning no disrespect at all to the lady OP

She's not depriving the father of access, the father can't be bothered. Totally different thing. The onus is on the father to be on time, to be responsible and respectful. The OP and her child can't be expected to put their day and plans on hold waiting for this man to arrive, they don't deserve abuse when he does. As a parent myself, if I was not living with my child I would do anything to be on time for access to get as much time as possible with my kids. Most parents would. This guys ambivalence says it's not much of a priority for him.

The Corinthian · 01-04-2015 2:16pm

sashbash wrote: »

My ex is always late for access, bullys me, doesn't care about my child, only comes down to say he's been down, and doesn't pay maintenance. I can't do it any more. He says it.doesn't matter that he's late but it does. It's not respectful to any one, most of all my child. I couldn't hold it any more and went mad at him in front of my little baby. I feel horrible now I broke down crying and I haven't cried in so long. I am just so broken, I don't have any strength left in me.

Inform him that if he is any more than 15 or 30 minutes late, you and your child will be gone elsewhere. Organize an alternative activity for you and your child for those occasions and if he is indeed 15 or 30 minutes late, do exactly that and text a friend that you're leaving the house so that you have another party noting the time.

He'll either learn to be punctual or he'll never see his child. If he complains, or goes to court for access, you'll have a record (with the friend you texted as witness) of his constant tardiness and he won't have much of a leg to stand on.

As to the question of maintenance, there's not enough information for me to comment.

Just bare in mind that he may not have any interest in the child, or he may - there's not enough information for me to comment on this either. Thing is, in these situations, that there can be resentments either by the father who resents being dragged into fatherhood by the decision of the mother to keep the child, or the mother because the father ultimately rejected her. These have to be overcome, if they are present, otherwise they end up acting as a cancer in any kind of relationship the parents end up having and, by extension, the relationship the parents will have with the child.

zeffabelli · 03-04-2015 1:48pm

sashbash wrote: »

I understand what you are saying and I am keeping my child's best interests at heart. If I wasn't, I'd have stopped access a long time ago. But I want to give it my all. It's hard now because my child is still young and they don't know any different, but I am thinking of when they are older, how is it going to be? But as I said in a few posts back, I'm trying to move on and just forget about it and just let what happens, happen. I will still keep a diary of things if it ever got to the stage that I have to go back to court.

Right now, the child has one custodial parent whom he is entirely dependant on. As he grows and becomes aware of this, it will become more and more terrifying in the development of conciousness that he is entirely dependent on ONE person.

That one person has to be intact to be able to be there for the child. That you have broken down in front of the baby and flipped out, means you have been pushed beyond your limits.

People throw around "best interest in the child" alot and all it means to me anyway is whatever adult projection happens to be int he room. THe child, what does that mean? Every child is different, every mother is different, there is no one size fits all.

But what does stand to standard, is in intact and competent custodian, and if flimsy, contentious, and unreliable access from hostile non custodians compromise that, then that is in no one's best interest, especially the child's.

If you can't do it anymore, then don't do it anymore.

pwurple · 06-04-2015 9:02am

katemarch wrote: »

(sorry to sound blunt: this is sincere)

@pwurple, you wrote "He misses the appointment, he loses out. Not you."

-Unfortunately, it's the child who loses out, more than any adult.

You completely missed my point there katemarch. Ever read the book called "how to train a man using the secrets of dog-handlers" ?

It's a joke book obviously, (i think someone gave it to me at my hen party) but refusing to put up with bad behaviour, by showing clear consequences, is a potential way to improve this situation. It works for children, it works for adults, it works for dogs.

By refusing to tolerate the disappointment and upset this guy is causing the child with his selfish lateness, The message should get through. That's the point, not removing him from the child's life. A method of getting him to show up when he says he will.

The Corinthian · 07-04-2015 11:06am

pwurple wrote: »

It works for children, it works for adults, it works for dogs.

Doesn't always work for adults unfortunately. Some people, typically with personality disorders, simply cannot learn this way - the connection between action and consequence never really forms as they grow up and as adults they tend to follow a pattern of repeating the same destructive, often self-destructive, behaviour.

It's like watching someone trying to pick up a scolding pot with their bare hands, burning themselves, then a few moments later trying again with the same results. Each time they're surprised at the outcome and will blame the pot, or anything or one else around, for the error.

I'm not saying the 'training' approach won't work, but bare in mind some people are basically broken and cannot be treated in the same way as if they were normal.

zeffabelli · 07-04-2015 11:32am

pwurple wrote: »

You completely missed my point there katemarch. Ever read the book called "how to train a man using the secrets of dog-handlers" ?

It's a joke book obviously, (i think someone gave it to me at my hen party) but refusing to put up with bad behaviour, by showing clear consequences, is a potential way to improve this situation. It works for children, it works for adults, it works for dogs.

By refusing to tolerate the disappointment and upset this guy is causing the child with his selfish lateness, The message should get through. That's the point, not removing him from the child's life. A method of getting him to show up when he says he will.

It doesn't work with some people. They are still late all the time, often due to passive aggression, because they don't want to be there in the first place.

If its the case of personality disorder, as the above poster mentioned, which is unlikely as it is only about 4 or 5% of the population, many of which diagnosis are in dispute, then you are much better off with them out of the picture, whether it is sociopathy, NPD or BPD. It takes specialist knowledge and a lot of compassion. But lateness is not really a symptom of any of these so I am not sure the relevency of bringing them up in this context. It's kind of disengenous and dangerous to start applying personality disorder theory to a parent who cannot represent themselves in relation t the OPs perceptions. Certainly punctuality should not be a problem here. Where it could be a problem is with ASD and types of executive disfunction where lateness and time keeping is a real problem due to poor short term memory. If this is the case maybe set reminders.

I would just stop making arrangements full stop with someone who is always late. I did this for two years with a friend of mine who didnt even notice I stopped making plans with her, or if she did notice didn't remark upon it, and then one day she said she was coming over, game me a time. She was two hours late but I had already left. She was raging and never spoke to me again.

You are also taking on a "parental role" which is not really workable with another adult, it places them in a child seat, which ultimately and long term defeats the purpose, you end up being their mother too, and you don't want that because you wil then be looking at other infantile or adolescent rebellions. And you can't then blame them for that because you are the one who set up that paradigm.

I don't know what book this is, but we are not dogs and we don't have ownership relationships with co parents nor should we want them.

pwurple · 07-04-2015 1:41pm

The Corinthian wrote: »

Doesn't always work for adults unfortunately. Some people, typically with personality disorders, simply cannot learn this way - the connection between action and consequence never really forms as they grow up and as adults they tend to follow a pattern of repeating the same destructive, often self-destructive, behaviour.

It's like watching someone trying to pick up a scolding pot with their bare hands, burning themselves, then a few moments later trying again with the same results. Each time they're surprised at the outcome and will blame the pot, or anything or one else around, for the error.

I'm not saying the 'training' approach won't work, but bare in mind some people are basically broken and cannot be treated in the same way as if they were normal.

I don't deal with absolutes. I'm well aware it doesn't always work.

But it's something that can be tried. Sometimes you CAN change how people behave with some gentle correction...

For example, I've seen you use the phrase "Bare in mind" a good few times. It's "bear in mind" unless you mean something about no clothes. Will my correction change how you use it? Let's see!

pwurple · 07-04-2015 1:44pm

zeffabelli wrote: »

It doesn't work with some people. They are still late all the time, often due to passive aggression, because they don't want to be there in the first place.

Yes yes I know. but as the thread is looking for suggestions, I provided one.

It can, and does work in my own experience.

No, not ALL the time, not with everyone. But assuming the person does not have a personality disorder, or is not completely thick, showing them the consequences of their own actions may get through.

I'm proactive. I'll give something a go, and if it doesn't work, try something else.

I would just stop making arrangements full stop with someone who is always late. I did this for two years with a friend of mine who didnt even notice I stopped making plans with her, or if she did notice didn't remark upon it, and then one day she said she was coming over, game me a time. She was two hours late but I had already left. She was raging and never spoke to me again.

ps, this is not the way to go about that. You didn't even tell her what was going on, instead playing your own little game of "I wonder will she notice".

zeffabelli · 07-04-2015 1:48pm

pwurple wrote: »

Yes yes I know. but as the thread is looking for suggestions, I provided one.

It can, and does work in my own experience.

No, not ALL the time, not with everyone. But assuming the person does not have a personality disorder, or is not completely thick, showing them the consequences of their own actions may get through.

I'm proactive. I'll give something a go, and if it doesn't work, try something else.

Ah yeah I can see that, and honestly personality disorders don't necessarily have puncuality issues!

There has been a lot of work on motivation and its been proven carrot and stick doesn't work. The participant has to have instinsic meaning to what they are doing

In this case the first thing that would have to be discerned is of the father has a punctuality issue or is simply cavalier about his relationship with the child and not all the bothered- in other words does not hold intrinsic meaning.

TizTaly2015 · 07-04-2015 4:16pm

Hi OP. I think there has been some very good suggestions here - keeping the diary, not sticking around if he's late (but of course this might not always suit if its raining, child is cranky etc). Its gonna be a very tough couple of years but it will smooth itself out eventually. Not sure if he has other children or if you do but if you don't, then this is new to you both. Its a massive change to both your lives and you will need to adapt for the wee one's benefit.

The bullying - that's a different aspect to this situation. If you can find the strength, I would put it to him - calmly - that if it continues, you will either bring him to mediation due to his attititude towards you or (again, if you can,) have a friend or family member present with you whenever he comes to see your child. My sister did this with her ex partner - he used to play awful mind games with her when they were alone and make her out to be mad but when she refused to engage with him anymore unless it was through a third party, he began to change his attitude towards her. It wasn't easy but it worked.

Oh and I would get a maintenance order for him - the judge can order a direct debit

I can't do this any more

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