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Garda crackdown on cyclists started today

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    #32
    petethedrummer
    Registered Users Posts: 7,604 ✭✭✭petethedrummer


    This should bring down the enormous number of cyclist deaths and deaths caused by cyclists. Glad to see the Gardai applying their efforts where it is needed most.


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    #33
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,834 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    petethedrummer wrote: »
    This should bring down the enormous number of cyclist deaths and deaths caused by cyclists. Glad to see the Gardai applying their efforts where it is needed most.

    Nope, it will be negated by all the killer high vis vests in circulation.


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    #34
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,017 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    porsche959 wrote: »
    Grow up.

    I have to admit, I've always found you incredibly desirable. I think it's your active differential that really does it for me.


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    #35
    hardCopy
    Registered Users Posts: 5,969 ✭✭✭hardCopy


    petethedrummer wrote: »
    This should bring down the enormous number of cyclist deaths and deaths caused by cyclists. Glad to see the Gardai applying their efforts where it is needed most.

    In years to come we may debate whether the inevitable drop in deaths is due to this Garda crackdown or the RSA's ongoing recall of not-sufficiently-hi-viz-hi-viz-vests.


    EDIT: Beaten to the punch


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    #36
    laraghrider
    Closed Accounts Posts: 663 ✭✭✭laraghrider


    With a bit of luck they'll sit someone in harrolds x to catch all the riders swanning through the red light on the left side of the park heading towards the canal.


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    #37
    oflahero
    Registered Users Posts: 765 ✭✭✭oflahero


    laraghrider wrote: »
    With a bit of luck they'll sit someone in harrolds x to catch all the riders swanning through the red light on the left side of the park heading towards the canal.

    That's a regular stop for enforcement, now that you mention it. People have come on here before moaning about being nobbled there.

    Had to laugh this morning at a red light waiting to turn right, as the car beside me decided he didn't want to wait longer than five seconds, and pulled out and away around through the red like a boss. Everyone watching from the other three sides and all. Seeing this a lot lately. The only conclusion I can draw is that all cars break red lights all the time and I will repeat this as often as I can.


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    #38
    Hmmzis
    Registered Users Posts: 2,004 ✭✭✭Hmmzis


    laraghrider wrote: »
    With a bit of luck they'll sit someone in harrolds x to catch all the riders swanning through the red light on the left side of the park heading towards the canal.

    That spot is just crazy, there are muppets breaking the lights there even with a bus thundering down on them. Makes my jaw drop every time I see that, some people are just ripe for the Darwin awards.


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    #39
    petethedrummer
    Registered Users Posts: 7,604 ✭✭✭petethedrummer


    "The 162 who died consisted of 29 pedestrians, 8 cyclists, 95 car occupants, 7 goods-van, 2 goods-HGV, 1 minibus, 19 bikers and 1 other."

    http://www.rsa.ie/RSA/Road-Safety/Our-Research/Deaths-injuries-on-Irish-roads/

    8 cycling deaths and all the other deaths probably caused by cyclists. I can think of no better deployment of resources.


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    #40
    petethedrummer
    Registered Users Posts: 7,604 ✭✭✭petethedrummer


    petethedrummer wrote: »
    "1 other."
    very curious as to what this guy was doing..... swimming?


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    #41
    DuckHook
    Registered Users Posts: 514 ✭✭✭DuckHook


    petethedrummer wrote: »
    "The 162 who died consisted of 29 pedestrians, 8 cyclists, 95 car occupants, 7 goods-van, 2 goods-HGV, 1 minibus, 19 bikers and 1 other."

    http://www.rsa.ie/RSA/Road-Safety/Our-Research/Deaths-injuries-on-Irish-roads/

    8 cycling deaths and all the other deaths probably caused by cyclists. I can think of no better deployment of resources.

    This is a typical misuse of statistics to attempt to prove a point, how many cyclists are there on the road compared to people driving cars? There are many many more cars on the road compared to cyclists therefore the numbers of deaths are much higher.

    Cyclists are not exempt from the laws and the guards get criticism no matter what they do, in this case they are to be commended as there is a very real issue with some cyclists behaving dangerously.


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    #42
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,512 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    DuckHook wrote: »
    Cyclists are not exempt from the laws and the guards get criticism no matter what they do, in this case they are to be commended as there is a very real issue with some cyclists behaving dangerously.

    I think the very fair point they were trying to make is that, why target cyclists. Why not blanket target all road users. The number of laws being broken on my daily commute would pay my months wages.

    The only thing that really needs changing is the court summons to a fixed penalty notice/on the spot fine, I can see this putting off Gardai reprimanding cyclists as a day in court for this is a huge waste of resources.


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    #43
    quozl
    Registered Users Posts: 3,308 ✭✭✭quozl


    CramCycle wrote: »
    I think the very fair point they were trying to make is that, why target cyclists. Why not blanket target all road users.

    because they're targeting cyclists today, and have targeted other road-users at other times?

    I've seen garda events targeting speeding, targetting drink driving, targetting HGV vehicles breaking the exclusion zones, and I'm sure lots of other things.

    Maybe the guards are all like me and struggle to focus on more than 1 thing at a time? ;)


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    #44
    DuckHook
    Registered Users Posts: 514 ✭✭✭DuckHook


    CramCycle wrote: »
    I think the very fair point they were trying to make is that, why target cyclists. Why not blanket target all road users. The number of laws being broken on my daily commute would pay my months wages.

    The only thing that really needs changing is the court summons to a fixed penalty notice/on the spot fine, I can see this putting off Gardai reprimanding cyclists as a day in court for this is a huge waste of resources.


    As there is a major issue with how some cyclists behave which cant be denied be it running red lights or cycling on footpaths etc, cyclists should not be allowed to do what they like and ignore the law. These are the people you should be asking about why all cyclists are being cracked down on.

    As for the summons being a waste of resources or not this is down to the gardai and they obviously feel a trip to court is a more effective way to change behaviours than a fine. Maybe cyclists involved should think of the resources they are potentially wasting when they break the law.

    Drivers are targeted regularly with checkpoints and initiatives during the year so its not as if the guards are ignoring other road users and their behaviour.


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    #45
    mitosis
    Registered Users Posts: 2,000 ✭✭✭mitosis


    CramCycle wrote: »
    I think the very fair point they were trying to make is that, why target cyclists. Why not blanket target all road users. The number of laws being broken on my daily commute would pay my months wages.

    The only thing that really needs changing is the court summons to a fixed penalty notice/on the spot fine, I can see this putting off Gardai reprimanding cyclists as a day in court for this is a huge waste of resources.

    They have always targeted all other road users than cyclists. Now by including cyclists you are getting more of a blanket treatment. The Gardai cannot catch all the law breakers logistically given that nationally there is about 1 Garda on duty at any time per 2000 citizens


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    #46
    petethedrummer
    Registered Users Posts: 7,604 ✭✭✭petethedrummer


    DuckHook wrote: »
    This is a typical misuse of statistics to attempt to prove a point, how many cyclists are there on the road compared to people driving cars? There are many many more cars on the road compared to cyclists therefore the numbers of deaths are much higher.

    Cyclists are not exempt from the laws and the guards get criticism no matter what they do, in this case they are to be commended as there is a very real issue with some cyclists behaving dangerously.

    If the point of this garda excercise is to curb illegal behaviour by cyclists then it's a good initiative.

    If the point is to lower deaths and make the roads safer then they are barking up the wrong tree.

    Illegal behaviour and unsafe behaviour should not be conflated.


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    #47
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,512 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    As for the summons being a waste of resources or not this is down to the gardai and they obviously feel a trip to court is a more effective way to change behaviours than a fine. Maybe cyclists involved should think of the resources they are potentially wasting when they break the law.
    The reason they don't do it AFAIK is that there is no provision for FPNs for cyclists so they have to give a summons. My point was that surely the law should be changed to give FPNs, which are quicker, waste no resources for the Gardai and get the point across quickly and firmly. This removes the issue of the Garda being concerned that issuing a summons for the offence would be a waste of his time or so that his super doesn't chew him out of it for having to be in court all the time.


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    #48
    DuckHook
    Registered Users Posts: 514 ✭✭✭DuckHook


    petethedrummer wrote: »
    If the point of this garda excercise is to curb illegal behaviour by cyclists then it's a good initiative.

    If the point is to lower deaths and make the roads safer then they are barking up the wrong tree.

    Illegal behaviour and unsafe behaviour should not be conflated.

    Are you saying that a cyclist running a red light is illegal but not unsafe?


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    #49
    ArseBurger
    Registered Users Posts: 647 ✭✭✭ArseBurger


    paddydriver wrote: »
    So now we got to take our passport of driving license when we are out for a cycle:eek:

    Proper order. That way you can have the appropriate points applied to your license.


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    #50
    del_boy13
    Registered Users Posts: 154 ✭✭del_boy13


    DuckHook wrote: »
    This is a typical misuse of statistics to attempt to prove a point, how many cyclists are there on the road compared to people driving cars? There are many many more cars on the road compared to cyclists therefore the numbers of deaths are much higher.

    Cyclists are not exempt from the laws and the guards get criticism no matter what they do, in this case they are to be commended as there is a very real issue with some cyclists behaving dangerously.

    Your argument is pretty poor when you consider that the highest proportion of deaths to other road users would be bikers.

    Was there any mention in the statistics of the causes of the deaths?


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    #51
    del_boy13
    Registered Users Posts: 154 ✭✭del_boy13


    ArseBurger wrote: »
    Proper order. That way you can have the appropriate points applied to your license.

    Pretty sure as I wasn't in control of a motorised vehicle at the time of breaking the lights I cannot have Penalty Points added to my license.

    If you take this to the full maybe all members of the public should be forced to carry ID and not doing so can become an offence. That would sort out cyclists.
    :rolleyes:


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    #52
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,017 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    DuckHook wrote: »
    Are you saying that a cyclist running a red light is illegal but not unsafe?

    Running a red light is always illegal and often unsafe.

    However, "unsafe" is a very broad brush. We don't as a society tend to legislate to discourage activities which are unsafe to the people doing them, we legislate to discourage activities which are unsafe to third parties.

    Cars jumping red lights (often, but not always) pose a very grave danger to third parties.

    Cyclists jumping red lights are mostly just annoying and discourteous, but of little risk to others.

    If I made the law I'd probably have on-the-spot fines for breaking reds but summons for going through a ped crossing on green man, on the basis that the latter offence requires more subjectivity in determining the seriousness.


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    #53
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    del_boy13 wrote: »
    Pretty sure as I wasn't in control of a motorised vehicle at the time of breaking the lights I cannot have Penalty Points added to my license.
    Actually, you can in some instances. Though I'm not sure specifically about lights.
    DuckHook wrote: »
    As there is a major issue with how some cyclists behave
    Quantify this "major" issue. What makes it "major"? What measurements are you applying to the behaviour and its outcome which cause it to qualify as "major"?

    A behaviour being common or widespread does not necessarily make it a major issue. A major issue is one which has broad negative consequences socially, economically or both. So drug abuse, alcohol abuse. Major issues. Cyclists breaking red lights?


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    #54
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    DuckHook wrote: »
    As there is a major issue with how some cyclists behave which cant be denied be it running red lights or cycling on footpaths etc, cyclists should not be allowed to do what they like and ignore the law. These are the people you should be asking about why all cyclists are being cracked down on.

    As for the summons being a waste of resources or not this is down to the gardai and they obviously feel a trip to court is a more effective way to change behaviours than a fine. Maybe cyclists involved should think of the resources they are potentially wasting when they break the law.

    Drivers are targeted regularly with checkpoints and initiatives during the year so its not as if the guards are ignoring other road users and their behaviour.

    Seriously, - RLJing is a major issue:confused:At worst it's a feckin' annoyance. [CUE:- anecdotes based around pregnant, old etc people who somebody knows who were knocked down by someone hopping on the pavement or jumping a red light]

    Drink and drug driving, excessive speeding are major issues of road safety. RLJing is a petty annoyance and the sooner they bring in fixed penalty notices the sooner you'll see Guards be more enforcement-minded on ths issue, and the better it will be.

    Taking someone to court, tying up a court room and the Guard for even a few minutes is an utter waste of resources which is why you see few cases and even then they tend only to occur sporadically. The hassle of the paperwork the Guard has to fill out once they've taken your details is just not worth it.

    At the moment you get get a fine and two penalty points for running a red light in a car, but you have to go to court if you do it on a bike - that's a crazy inconsistency.......


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    #55
    RV
    Registered Users Posts: 157 ✭✭RV


    De Bhál wrote: »
    Where was this alleged red light you cycled through, allegedly?

    Or more legally correctly, Where was this red light through which you allegedly cycled?

    PM me at : yournewsolicitor@large.con


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    #56
    check_six
    Registered Users Posts: 2,245 ✭✭✭check_six


    petethedrummer wrote: »
    "The 162 who died consisted of 29 pedestrians, 8 cyclists, 95 car occupants, 7 goods-van, 2 goods-HGV, 1 minibus, 19 bikers and 1 other."

    [/QUOTE]
    petethedrummer wrote: »
    very curious as to what this guy was doing..... swimming?

    My guess is hang-gliding with a pinch of overhead electricity pylon, and a dash of landing on the road afterwards.


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    #57
    petethedrummer
    Registered Users Posts: 7,604 ✭✭✭petethedrummer


    DuckHook wrote: »
    Are you saying that a cyclist running a red light is illegal but not unsafe?

    Depends on the circumstances.

    Smoking is unsafe and legal.
    Taking e is probably safer and illegal.

    i don;t do either.


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    #58
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,915 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    Jawgap wrote: »

    At the moment you get get a fine and two penalty points for running a red light in a car, but you have to go to court if you do it on a bike - that's a crazy inconsistency.......

    Unless your willing to get points on a drivers licence then there's no easy/quick way to deal with cyclists. A €40, or more, fine for breaking the law isn't too big a deal with the general lack of enforcement of our traffic laws. So the only way to penalise cyclists is with time and money.
    del_boy13 wrote: »
    Pretty sure as I wasn't in control of a motorised vehicle at the time of breaking the lights I cannot have Penalty Points added to my license.

    Make all road users have the same penalties and have the same fines/punishments to be fair. Then we'd actually need to get our leaders to tell the RSA that there are more than 2 laws on our books for road users and we may get an improvement from all road users.


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    #59
    droidus
    Registered Users Posts: 1,545 ✭✭✭droidus


    petethedrummer wrote: »
    Depends on the circumstances.

    Smoking is unsafe and legal.
    Taking e is probably safer and illegal.

    i don;t do either.

    The famous comparison is horse riding vs mdma consumption.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/4537874/Ecstasy-no-more-dangerous-than-horse-riding.html


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    #60
    endacl
    Registered Users Posts: 22,239 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    *puts on 'cyclist' hat*

    The rules are there for road users to abide by. What's the problem? Abide by them and there's no issue?


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    #61
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Del2005 wrote: »
    Unless your willing to get points on a drivers licence then there's no easy/quick way to deal with cyclists. A €40, or more, fine for breaking the law isn't too big a deal with the general lack of enforcement of our traffic laws. So the only way to penalise cyclists is with time and money.
    Nonsense. I'm pretty sure if someone was continually getting stung for €80 for breaking a red, they'd stop it pretty sharpish. Since apparently the Gardai are so fond of making money for the government, stinging cyclists for breaking reds should be like shooting fish in a barrel.

    Trips to court for what is an exceptionally minor offence is a waste of Garda time and is one of the main reasons why it's not enforced. Pushing Gardai to do this would be a massive waste of resources, which should be directed at more serious offences.

    Fixed penalty notices work, we know they work. They've worked for speeding and littering. Why not cyclists?

    Throwing penalty points into the mix is a good idea, I see no reason not to include it.


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