St Annes Park Planning Application

jon1981 · 13-09-2018 1:29pm

Good news, but it's not the end. They ain't going to walk way from a 20m investment that easy. They didn't pay 20m on a punt, they know this is a process they have to go through (with no doubt the best legal advise and insider knowledge), i'm not confident the planning will never be awarded.

Sleeper12 · 13-09-2018 2:10pm

jon1981 wrote: »

Good news, but it's not the end. They ain't going to walk way from a 20m investment that easy. They didn't pay 20m on a punt, they know this is a process they have to go through (with no doubt the best legal advise and insider knowledge), i'm not confident the planning will never be awarded.

I do agree.

It depends on the reason for the refusal. Scale can be altered. I believe in this case it was turned down due to the effects it would have on wildlife & protected species. Not so easy to get around that

jon1981 · 13-09-2018 2:12pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I do agree.

It depends on the reason for the refusal. Scale can be altered. I believe in this case it was turned down due to the effects it would have on wildlife & protected species. Not so easy to get around that

I was thinking about this. Strategy could be as simple as let the grass grow, protect the site, Geese won't return, wait a year, resubmit.

Bugs me that no local funding/investment was made available to built some amenities on this site. E.g community gym/pool similar to the dlr leisure services on the southside. Artane/Raheny/Clontarf are severely lacking in these community facilities.

ozmo · 13-09-2018 2:25pm

jon1981 wrote: »

They ain't going to walk way from a 20m investment that easy...

They would be mad to have actually handed over the money though - just guessing but could it have been a deal "dependant on planning permission obtained"

Has anyone seen any builder activity on the site as if they actually owned it?

What would be ideal would be if the land can just revert back to the order and the order could hopefully donate it back to the people or resell it a more realistic price to Dublin cc.

bren2001 · 13-09-2018 2:28pm

ozmo wrote: »

They would be mad to have actually handed over the money though - just guessing but could it have been a deal "dependant on planning permission obtained"

Has anyone seen any builder activity on the site as if they actually owned it?

What would be ideal would be if the land can just revert back to the order and the order could hopefully donate it back to the people or resell it a more realistic price to Dublin cc.

Reports at the time explicitly stated the land was sold irrespective of whether planning permission was granted. There will be a few more twists in this you'd imagine.

jon1981 · 13-09-2018 2:29pm

There's no way on earth that they bought this on the chance of getting permission. To my previous point, they expect to be put through a difficult process, but the end result will be permission granted.

Or I could be wrong and the back pocket card has already been played... which was the fast track process.

jay0109 · 13-09-2018 2:29pm

All the NIMBYs out in force today aided and abetted by Politicians of the left. Oh the mockery of it all

ozmo · 13-09-2018 2:30pm

jon1981 wrote: »

Bugs me that no local funding/investment was made available to built some amenities on this site. E.g community gym/pool....

There was a pool right next door - St. Pauls - used to go to it myself - they built houses on that also just recently.

jon1981 · 13-09-2018 2:31pm

ozmo wrote: »

There was a pool right next door - St. Pauls - used to go to it myself - they built houses on that also just recently.

This is my point, we complain about "community land" being used for houses but we don't build any amenities for the community on it!

Franz Von Peppercorn · 13-09-2018 2:31pm

The last thing this city needs is new housing.

jon1981 · 13-09-2018 2:33pm

It's really about the Geese

;)

:pac::pac::pac:

ozmo · 13-09-2018 2:36pm

jay0109 wrote: »

All the NIMBYs out in force today aided and abetted by Politicians of the left. Oh the mockery of it all

Can you explain - What exactly do you mean by NIMBY?
I know it means "not in my back yard" but whats wrong with that - and why would you consider it an insult?

People in the area have a right to object to a single businessman chancing his arm at building right in the center of the best Northside park we have.

jay0109 · 13-09-2018 2:40pm

A It's not anywhere near the centre of the park as even a glance at your map show's
B It's not really part of the park as it's fenced off as school pitches and so it's not used by walkers etc
C What difference is it if it was 1 businessman or a conglomerate of them

NIMBY-ism at it best/worst. And all cheer leaded on by the likes of Aodhan O'Riordain and other 'champions' from the Left

jon1981 · 13-09-2018 2:43pm

jay0109 wrote: »

All the NIMBYs out in force today aided and abetted by Politicians of the left. Oh the mockery of it all

I won't pretend that I'm not unhappy about this decision, for me it was never about the Geese ( I found out the impact to the Geese afterwards).

I live near the junction where the proposed entrance will be and the traffic is an absolute mare at the best of times. Also I'm annoyed that no effort was made to build community amenities on the site firstly.

Does all this make me a Nimby? Probably.
Do I think Dublin needs these houses? Yes.
Given the opportunity to protest/object, will I ? Yes.
Will I be upset if permission is granted? No, I'll get over it.

jay0109 · 13-09-2018 2:45pm

A very honest and to the point post jon1981

Sleeper12 · 13-09-2018 2:47pm

ozmo wrote:

There was a pool right next door - St. Pauls - used to go to it myself - they built houses on that also just recently.

Apartments. 8 stories in believe

Sleeper12 · 13-09-2018 2:50pm

jay0109 wrote:

All the NIMBYs out in force today aided and abetted by Politicians of the left. Oh the mockery of it all

I believe every politician & county Councillor from left and right except Richard Bruton. The entire DCC objected to the development. Not just NIMBYs

ozmo · 13-09-2018 2:52pm

jay0109 wrote: »

A It's not anywhere near the centre of the park

its pretty much..

sUVLUicsQCfXtar-800x450-noPad.jpg?1530654613

jay0109 wrote: »

it's fenced off

Thats only recently since it was sold

jay0109 wrote: »

C What difference is it if it was 1 businessman or a conglomerate of them

Greed and short sightedness of the one vs the hundreds that use the site.
No shortage of alternative locations for housing nearby - eg. Clare Hall, Ballymun, Airport - plus the Swimming pool beside this that's being built on right now.

jay0109 wrote: »

...from the Left

I'm not an expert on who is left but as far as I can see this was widely condemned by all - including even the High Court.
Who can you mention that agreed with this development?

Franz Von Peppercorn · 13-09-2018 2:57pm

The airport is nowhere near St Anne’s Park. That development is walkable to the dart as well.

As for amenities, it’s the same amenities that already exist close to the village.

jay0109 · 13-09-2018 2:59pm

ozmo wrote: »

No shortage of alternative locations for housing nearby - eg. Clare Hall, Ballymun, Airport - plus the Swimming pool beside this that's being built on right now.

The classic NIMBY right there

And how recent is 'recent' in terms of it being fenced off?

hmmm · 13-09-2018 3:01pm

We need to abandon Dublin city centre. No seriously, we need to abandon this low rise mega-village which will not accept high density living, and either move investment to a city which will (Limerick & Cork look good), or reorient the commercial aspect of the city towards high density locations on the outskirts (e.g. Sandyford/Central Park).

bren2001 · 13-09-2018 3:42pm

jay0109 wrote: »

The classic NIMBY right there

And how recent is 'recent' in terms of it being fenced off?

I don't quite agree with you or your tone but contrary to above, it was fenced off long before it was sold. I have it in my head it was around 2000 but have nothing to back that up. It was certainly fenced off by 2003.

It's zone 15 land that ultimately has not been rezoned. I don't really see how this is NIMBY stuff. I don't want to see any green space similar to St Annes being rezoned for housing regardless of it is where I live or not.

Sleeper12 · 13-09-2018 3:59pm

bren2001 wrote: »

I don't quite agree with you or your tone but contrary to above, it was fenced off long before it was sold. I have it in my head it was around 2000 but have nothing to back that up. It was certainly fenced off by 2003.

It's zone 15 land that ultimately has not been rezoned. I don't really see how this is NIMBY stuff. I don't want to see any green space similar to St Annes being rezoned for housing regardless of it is where I live or not.

I'm sorry but you are getting confused. This was my playground growing up. St Pauls my school for 2 years. It's also where you will find my wife everyday walking the dogs. The fence went up about a year ago.

Up to a year ago you would not know if you left the park or not by walking on these grounds. there was no barrier, fence of anything like it. There is a save ST Annes facebook group & you'll find recently taken photos without the fence. Fence went up to try show that public had no access. Up to a year ago you did not have to go through the school to get to these playing fields. Not cutting the grass is a new thing too. I'm guessing the last 6 months of so. Not cutting the grass is to try keep the geese away

ozmo · 13-09-2018 4:02pm

jay0109 wrote: »

The classic NIMBY

I wish.. - had to move far away to get a house so not my back yard anymore - but still respect others need for parklands and breathing space around the parkland even though I don't get to use it.

And no I'd never consider building my house on kids playing fields, and encroaching on the park as as solution to me having the option to moving to the area. There are other places suitable for that (link to areas available to build on).

This would not be even considered if it was an even numbered postcode.

bren2001 · 13-09-2018 4:23pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I'm sorry but you are getting confused. This was my playground growing up. St Pauls my school for 2 years. It's also where you will find my wife everyday walking the dogs. The fence went up about a year ago.

Up to a year ago you would not know if you left the park or not by walking on these grounds. there was no barrier, fence of anything like it. There is a save ST Annes facebook group & you'll find recently taken photos without the fence. Fence went up to try show that public had no access. Up to a year ago you did not have to go through the school to get to these playing fields. Not cutting the grass is a new thing too. I'm guessing the last 6 months of so. Not cutting the grass is to try keep the geese away

Taken from the I Love St Annes page:

These 15 acres of playing fields, which form one side of the avenue running through the centre of the park, remained open to the park from that time until 2001 when the Vincentians, citing insurance reasons, applied for and were granted planning to erect a fence around their fields.

As I said, the fence has been there a very long time. I went to the school for 6 years. The fence was there. We used to run the perimeter of those fields as a warm up. It used to piss me off no end, the GAA pitch we used is the St. Vincents pitch (I think) directly behind the St Pauls pitches, we used to have to walk out and around.

jay0109 · 13-09-2018 4:41pm

bren2001 wrote: »

I don't quite agree with you or your tone but contrary to above, it was fenced off long before it was sold. I have it in my head it was around 2000 but have nothing to back that up. It was certainly fenced off by 2003.

It's zone 15 land that ultimately has not been rezoned. I don't really see how this is NIMBY stuff. I don't want to see any green space similar to St Annes being rezoned for housing regardless of it is where I live or not.

Indeed, it certainly seems to have been fenced off many years ago...not in the 'recent' past as mentioned by another poster.
Google street view shows a fence up in Aug14.

This green space is no "similar to St Annes" as it's not part of St Anne's Park. It's playing pitches attached to a school adjacent to St Anne's park

Sleeper12 · 13-09-2018 4:58pm

jay0109 wrote: »

Indeed, it certainly seems to have been fenced off many years ago...not in the 'recent' past as mentioned by another poster.
Google street view shows a fence up in Aug14.

This green space is no "similar to St Annes" as it's not part of St Anne's Park. It's playing pitches attached to a school adjacent to St Anne's park

What do you google to see that? Fields can't be seen from the road. I'm curious how the street car ended up inside the park

Seth Brundle · 13-09-2018 5:14pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I'm sorry but you are getting confused. This was my playground growing up. St Pauls my school for 2 years. It's also where you will find my wife everyday walking the dogs. The fence went up about a year ago.

Up to a year ago you would not know if you left the park or not by walking on these grounds. there was no barrier, fence of anything like it. There is a save ST Annes facebook group & you'll find recently taken photos without the fence. Fence went up to try show that public had no access. Up to a year ago you did not have to go through the school to get to these playing fields. Not cutting the grass is a new thing too. I'm guessing the last 6 months of so. Not cutting the grass is to try keep the geese away

bren2001 wrote: »

Taken from the I Love St Annes page:

These 15 acres of playing fields, which form one side of the avenue running through the centre of the park, remained open to the park from that time until 2001 when the Vincentians, citing insurance reasons, applied for and were granted planning to erect a fence around their fields.

As I said, the fence has been there a very long time. I went to the school for 6 years. The fence was there. We used to run the perimeter of those fields as a warm up. It used to piss me off no end, the GAA pitch we used is the St. Vincents pitch (I think) directly behind the St Pauls pitches, we used to have to walk out and around.

hmmm sounds like someone who claims to know the park very well through frequent use actually doesn't!

Seth Brundle · 13-09-2018 5:16pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

What do you google to see that? Fields can't be seen from the road. I'm curious how the street car ended up inside the park

No but a person with a Google camera can walk the pathways

Sleeper12 · 13-09-2018 5:21pm

Seth Brundle wrote:

hmmm sounds like someone who claims to know the park very well through frequent use actually doesn't!

There has always been a fence to some extent. When I was in Paul's there was a wire fence with concrete pillars about 5 or 6 feet high. All that was left in 81 was the pillars. when we did cross country runs for PE we ran out of the gym through the field and into the park. There have been several fences over the years.

There is a new fence only up a year or so. It was put up by the developers. 18 months ago you could get from the park to the field.

Sleeper12 · 13-09-2018 5:23pm

Seth Brundle wrote:

No but a person with a Google camera can walk the pathways

That makes sense. I didn't know that they did this. It certainly would be interesting seeing a street view going through parks

EDIT I had a look. Pretty cool
This Is where we'd come from the fields to the park

Sleeper12 · 13-09-2018 5:55pm

Sleeper12 wrote:

I'm sorry but you are getting confused. This was my playground growing up. St Pauls my school for 2 years. It's also where you will find my wife everyday walking the dogs. The fence went up about a year ago.

Sorry I was wrong. I just asked my wife as she told me about "the new fence" less than a year ago. The new fence she was talking about was a new fence erected inside the grounds dividing the field itself.

Sorry for confusing things

John_Rambo · 13-09-2018 9:02pm

jay0109 wrote: »

The classic NIMBY right there

Classic keyboard warrior there.

The parklands and green areas are the lungs of the city and an integral part of the Dublin Bay Biosphere.

Crying Nimbyism from your computer at home at the people that care about the city, the people that got up off their arses, paid to lodge complaints, protested and won a small battle against a cynical developer that was using fast tracking and a housing crises to make a quick few billion is lazy, weak and a petty way of trying to degenerate local activism.

Up you get off the couch, brush the crumbs off your belly and organise a protest march in favour of the development if you care that much.

I know you won't.

13-09-2018 9:10pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

There has always been a fence to some extent. When I was in Paul's there was a wire fence with concrete pillars about 5 or 6 feet high. All that was left in 81 was the pillars. when we did cross country runs for PE we ran out of the gym through the field and into the park. There have been several fences over the years.

There is a new fence only up a year or so. It was put up by the developers. 18 months ago you could get from the park to the field.

I was brought up on All Saints Road, opposite the park, 40 years ago the fence was about 3 ft high, and was easily just stepped over.

jay0109 · 13-09-2018 9:10pm

To Rambo:

Sticks and stones and all that :rolleyes:

I don't live in that side of the city so I don't care either way. But don't let me hear the locals in teh yars to come bemoaning the fact their offspring have to move to Portlaoise to buy a house.
Or the local politicians (especially the left wing hypocrites) on the media crying about the lack of housing.

As for getting off my a55...I'm just back from coaching an underage team for the past couple of hours in my local park. A good few years ago the religious order bordering the park sold off their lands to build apartments. I'm sure the NIMBYs were out in force then as well but the building went ahead.
And you know what, there' still a big park and the apartments take nothing away from it. The sky didn't fall in and hundreds of people got a home close to town thus saving urban sprawl, benefitting public transport etc

But hey, keep going with the generalisations

Sleeper12 · 13-09-2018 9:14pm

Deleted User wrote:

I was brought up on All Saints Road, opposite the park, 40 years ago the fence was about 3 ft high, and was easily just stepped over.

40 years ago I was 10. It looked bigger than 3 foot.

John_Rambo · 13-09-2018 9:32pm

jay0109 wrote: »

But hey, keep going with the generalisations

Ah, go on, if you didn't care why are you trolling? Just looked at your post history, de Nigerians, de travelers, de government, de Brazilians... etc etc. Keyboard wailing is what you do.

You're lucky you still have a local park because of people that care about them.

jay0109 · 13-09-2018 9:46pm

I'm being stalked by Rambo.
Whatever.

Keep objecting to housing, keep the crisis going. And if challenged, get personal.

John_Rambo · 13-09-2018 9:59pm

No

jay0109 wrote: »

Keep objecting to housing, keep the crisis going. And if challenged, get personal.

Lots of development going on in the area. We only objected to the one that needed to be stopped. We were vindicated, we were right. I challenged you on your name calling and trolling on a subject you admit you "don't care about either way" and one you obviously don't know much about.

Nobody is stalking you, you simply got called out, nothing personal, move on, build a bridge, get over it.

Sleeper12 · 13-09-2018 10:28pm

John_Rambo wrote:

Lots of development going on in the area. We only objected to the one that needed to be stopped. We were vindicated, we were right. I challenged you on your name calling and trolling on a subject you admit you "don't care about either way" and one you obviously don't know much about.

That's an understatement. We're tripping over crains in Raheny & Clontarf at the moment.

It's important to point out that DCC who were side stepped in this said that it goes against the development plans for Dublin & every single member of DCC were against development. This in itself is a unique situation.

It just goes to show how the fast tracking of the planning system is flawed. I think Dublin will be paying for the mistakes of the fast track system in the decades come.

jon1981 · 14-09-2018 8:22am

Traffic at the junction of sybill hill and howth road was absolutely ridiculous this morning. Can only imagine what it would be like with 500 apartments dumped right next to it.

kona · 14-09-2018 9:53am

Sleeper12 wrote: »

That's an understatement. We're tripping over crains in Raheny & Clontarf at the moment.

It's important to point out that DCC who were side stepped in this said that it goes against the development plans for Dublin & every single member of DCC were against development. This in itself is a unique situation.

It just goes to show how the fast tracking of the planning system is flawed. I think Dublin will be paying for the mistakes of the fast track system in the decades come.

Its the next "scandal"

jon1981 · 14-09-2018 10:10am

btw can we all stop pretending it was about the Geese?

jay0109 · 14-09-2018 10:20am

jon1981 wrote: »

btw can we all stop pretending it was about the Geese?

Too soon yet I'd say

Sleeper12 · 14-09-2018 11:42am

jon1981 wrote:

btw can we all stop pretending it was about the Geese?

It's not. DCC who objected to it from the get go says that it goes against the City Development Plan. They would have refused it point blank if the government didn't come up with the fast track planning or fast track bad planning as it appears to be

jon1981 · 14-09-2018 11:45am

Sleeper12 wrote: »

It's not. DCC who objected to it from the get go says that it goes against the City Development Plan. They would have refused it point blank if the government didn't come up with the fast track planning or fast track bad planning as it appears to be

I know it's not, it's not for me. I'm tired of hearing my neighbours bleat on about the fecking Geese!

downtheroad · 14-09-2018 12:36pm

jon1981 wrote: »

Traffic at the junction of sybill hill and howth road was absolutely ridiculous this morning. Can only imagine what it would be like with 500 apartments dumped right next to it.

Was grand on the bike though

jon1981 · 14-09-2018 12:39pm

downtheroad wrote: »

Was grand on the bike though

I cycle 99% of the time (I own 3 bicycles) but this morning I couldn't. Please don't start with that annoying cycling argument.

There are times when cars are a necessity such as ferrying a sick baby to the doctor, as was the case this morning.

downtheroad · 14-09-2018 2:02pm

jon1981 wrote: »

downtheroad wrote: »

Was grand on the bike though

I cycle 99% of the time (I own 3 bicycles) but this morning I couldn't. Please don't start with that annoying cycling argument.

There are times when cars are a necessity such as ferrying a sick baby to the doctor, as was the case this morning.

Only messing. It was pretty bad traffic this morning to be fair, possibly the weather. Unusual for a Friday.

I grew up in the area and have recently bought a house near St Annes, and use the park frequently (although never use the piece of land in question as it is fenced off from the general public and has been for quite some time now). I'm just wondering what do people expect to happen with this land now though? The developer is unlikely to become a philanthropist and donate the land to the public. It is far more likely that a new plan will be put together to build housing on this land.

Personally, I am resigned to the fact that this land will eventually be built on, and this should not be delayed given the lack of housing supply in Dublin. I would like to see this development be built with an emphasis on apartments, and minimal car parking facilities as they just aren't needed in an area that has regular bus and DART facilities a short walk away. Several GoCars, plenty of bike parking and BleeperBikes would suffice.

And I could not care less about the geese, as there are plenty of other green spaces and football pitches in Dublin 3 and Dublin 5 that they will migrate to instead.

jon1981 · 14-09-2018 2:25pm

downtheroad wrote: »

I'm just wondering what do people expect to happen with this land now though? The developer is unlikely to become a philanthropist and donate the land to the public. It is far more likely that a new plan will be put together to build housing on this land..

This is my gripe, no effort was made to develop the land by adding amenities to the area. A pool was removed and replaced with apartments. A community gym/pool/pitches/tennis/kids camps would be great for the location. If you've ever used the DLR leisure facilities on the southside you'd see what I mean.

http://dlrleisure.ie/meadowbrook/

St Annes Park Planning Application

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