Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

St Annes Park Planning Application

Options
13567…24

Comments

  • Options
    #62
    Pete_Cavan
    Registered Users Posts: 6,743 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    KomradeBishop wrote: »
    It's almost impossible for the project to not be economical for them - reduced units or not, the barriers to them going ahead with building there, are very small.

    The response of the planning authorities is in no way anywhere close to a rejection - the developers pretty much have this in the bag already, they just need to adjust the plan.

    The developer is paying €7m for the land, is paying substantial design costs which has just jumped up again due to need to redesign, there will be significant levies and contributions to be paid, part of the land purchase agreement was that the developer build a new sports hall and all weather pitch for the school plus there are site development and infrastructure costs. There is more than €10m worth of fixed cost to the developer regardless of the number of units they get approval for. If the number of units is significantly reduced, then those fixed costs increase per unit, if sales prices remain the same then it eats into any profit.

    If the number of units is halved, then the fixed cost per unit doubles (the actual construction cost per unit probably increases a bit due to reduced economy of scale). There is a point where the development becomes uneconomical, if DCC cant reject the development outright, hopefully they are pushing the number of units approved down to that level.


  • Options
    #63
    KomradeBishop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,981 ✭✭✭KomradeBishop


    The original plan was 400 homes, lets say that goes down to 200 at €300,000 (which is low estimate given the state of the property market) - that'd be at least €60 million.

    Good luck trying to show that being uneconomical.


  • Options
    #64
    ozmo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,856 ✭✭✭ozmo


    Just a heads up - this project is back...

    With a very swish website and documents:

    "...the loss of 15 acres of playing fields at St. Paul's college in St. Anne's park. That planning application was withdrawn following hundreds of objections but it's back and it's bigger than before. This new proposal will have a catastrophic impact on St. Anne's from which the park will never recover. You can view the planning documents here..."

    Read full update here:
    https://www.change.org/p/4870114/u/22314339

    Their website:
    http://www.stpaulsshd.ie/


    There are a lot of documents there - one I found interesting was the Photomontage - which very carefully selected locations are chosen to suggest the buildings are almost totally invisible from all angles... very crafty editing there.

    http://www.stpaulsshd.ie/environmental-impact-assessment-form/photomontages/

    “Roll it back”



  • Options
    #65
    MisterDrak
    Registered Users Posts: 1,706 ✭✭✭MisterDrak


    ozmo wrote: »

    There are a lot of documents there - one I found interesting was the Photomontage - which very carefully selected locations are chosen to suggest the buildings are almost totally invisible from all angles... very crafty editing there.

    http://www.stpaulsshd.ie/environmental-impact-assessment-form/photomontages/

    Basically 20% of the green space will be lost in the top section of St Annes park.

    Agree with you point around the carefully selecting spots to show the impact on the views in the park. Only the last 3-4 photos give an indication of the lately impact. A narrow red line drawing showing the high of the structure does not describe how a 3-4 story slab of concrete with actually look, through the trees.


  • Options
    #66
    wakka12
    Registered Users Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    I really hope those apartments aren't built :(
    Building on public green space would set a very poor precedent for the city


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #67
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 28,293 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    There's 440 hectares zoned using the primary residential zoning in Dublin City, that's apparently enough for 50,000 houses.
    The land at St Annes was detached from the park but was always intended primarily for community use in their hands of the religious order, maybe with some small residential section e.g. for members of the order to live on, or educational lands that would have student accomodation.
    It was never intended that the land would become primarily residential.
    It's disgraceful that some religious instiutions used legal loophole to challenge this zoning.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Options
    #68
    ozmo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,856 ✭✭✭ozmo


    "How are sports facilities ever a bad thing? In such a large park too? I think you have no rational basis for objection!"

    A huge apartment block complex - imposing over the park - with a small section will be made pay per play.

    There is enough brown field unused land in the area they could use for building without cutting into parkland intended for the use by all.

    “Roll it back”



  • Options
    #69
    wakka12
    Registered Users Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    ozmo wrote: »
    A huge apartment block complex - imposing over the park - with a small section will be made pay per play.

    There is enough brown field unused land in the area they could use for building without cutting into parkland intended for the use by all.

    I edited didn't know apartments were being built when I read OP, thought it was just fields


  • Options
    #70
    jon1981
    Registered Users Posts: 4,359 ✭✭✭jon1981


    I'm on the fence about this development. I believe the location would be great for many reasons, close to town, alot of transport options and also would be good for the area in terms of driving local business (shops, cafe...etc.).

    The land is there but there's been no plan to develop it for the Z15 conditions mentioned. So, now a guy turns up with a plan, offering homes (house crisis tick) , jobs ( Economy tick) and PR for the government (tick tick tick).

    At a time when there's a perceived suitable home shortage in Dublin , no politician is going to get behind this , they might give lip service to it but I don't see them making a song and dance about it. It would harm their image.

    I would like to see the development scaled down but I do believe there is space there for homes.


  • Options
    #71
    Gloomtastic!
    Registered Users Posts: 8,350 ✭✭✭Gloomtastic!


    The main bone of contention for me is the loss of my son's football and rugby club pitches. However, the developers have offered to build 2 all weather pitches. That seems like a fair deal. You get so much more play out of an all weather pitch compared to grass.

    The objectors are just NIMBYs, the park hasn't been part of St Anne's for decades.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #72
    bren2001
    Registered Users Posts: 6,091 ✭✭✭bren2001


    Gloomtastic! wrote: »
    The main bone of contention for me is the loss of my son's football and rugby club pitches. However, the developers have offered to build 2 all weather pitches. That seems like a fair deal. You get so much more play out of an all weather pitch compared to grass.

    The objectors are just NIMBYs, the park hasn't been part of St Anne's for decades.

    The fence was put up around 2001. It was effectively part of the park until then i.e. if you didn't know it wasn't, you wouldn't guess.


  • Options
    #73
    ozmo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,856 ✭✭✭ozmo


    Gloomtastic! wrote: »
    ...the developers have offered to build 2 all weather pitches. .

    That you will pay them each time you want to use...

    “Roll it back”



  • Options
    #74
    Gloomtastic!
    Registered Users Posts: 8,350 ✭✭✭Gloomtastic!


    ozmo wrote: »
    That you will pay them each time you want to use...

    Didn’t the football and rugby clubs pay for the grass pitches?


  • Options
    #75
    kona
    Registered Users Posts: 7,525 ✭✭✭kona


    jon1981 wrote: »
    I'm on the fence about this development. I believe the location would be great for many reasons, close to town, alot of transport options and also would be good for the area in terms of driving local business (shops, cafe...etc.).

    The land is there but there's been no plan to develop it for the Z15 conditions mentioned. So, now a guy turns up with a plan, offering homes (house crisis tick) , jobs ( Economy tick) and PR for the government (tick tick tick).

    At a time when there's a perceived suitable home shortage in Dublin , no politician is going to get behind this , they might give lip service to it but I don't see them making a song and dance about it. It would harm their image.

    I would like to see the development scaled down but I do believe there is space there for homes.

    The houses being built there are not for normal people working normal jobs.
    They are for social and people who can afford 400k plus.


  • Options
    #76
    jon1981
    Registered Users Posts: 4,359 ✭✭✭jon1981


    kona wrote: »
    The houses being built there are not for normal people working normal jobs.
    They are for social and people who can afford 400k plus.

    Ok, but this is not why people are protesting.

    Also, the location is quite a sought after location given the proximity to the city, public transport and local amenities. Why wouldn't the developer price them accordingly? They are not a charity.


  • Options
    #77
    kona
    Registered Users Posts: 7,525 ✭✭✭kona


    jon1981 wrote: »
    Ok, but this is not why people are protesting.

    Also, the location is quite a sought after location given the proximity to the city, public transport and local amenities. Why wouldn't the developer price them accordingly? They are not a charity.

    No people are protesting because its a ****in stupid place to build houses.
    Zero access, its a massive amount of soakage for rain, its used by hundreds of kids every week, the local roads wont handle that traffic as it currently cannot handle whats going thru there at the moment.

    As for the type of houses, of course you charge accordingly but im responding to your point about the housing crisis, these houses aint for the great unwashed. Well maybe 30%.


  • Options
    #78
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,980 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    kona wrote: »
    As for the type of houses, of course you charge accordingly but im responding to your point about the housing crisis, these houses aint for the great unwashed. Well maybe 30%.
    Whether or not they are for the great unwashed is irrelevant. If you reduce demand in one segment e.g. those that wash, it will have knock on effects on other segments e.g. the unwashed


  • Options
    #79
    bren2001
    Registered Users Posts: 6,091 ✭✭✭bren2001


    kbannon wrote: »
    Whether or not they are for the great unwashed is irrelevant. If you reduce demand in one segment e.g. those that wash, it will have knock on effects on other segments e.g. the unwashed

    While this is technically true, building luxury accommodation or accommodation for the more elite will reduce house prices for low to middle earning families due to less demand, it is very minimal. Its effectively a form of trickle down economics which doesn't work. This does very little to address the housing crisis in Dublin. The housing crisis does not effect its target market.

    However, rich people still need houses too. I never really understood this portion of the argument. Not every development will tackle the crisis. We can't just build houses for low to middle income families. Unfortunately, due to the approach the government has taken, I expect to see a lot more of this stuff as its much more profitable for developers.

    Saying that, I'm against the proposed development for a variety of other reasons.


  • Options
    #80
    jon1981
    Registered Users Posts: 4,359 ✭✭✭jon1981


    kona wrote: »
    No people are protesting because its a ****in stupid place to build houses.
    Zero access, its a massive amount of soakage for rain, its used by hundreds of kids every week, the local roads wont handle that traffic as it currently cannot handle whats going thru there at the moment.

    I agree with the traffic situation , which is why I said I would like to see it scaled down (by the way, I live in the affected area)
    kona wrote: »

    As for the type of houses, of course you charge accordingly but im responding to your point about the housing crisis, these houses aint for the great unwashed. Well maybe 30%.

    There's still sufficient demand in that market to see these being sold out. This will relieve pressure elsewhere, i.e. someone paying 400k for a property in a less desirable area because they have no choice. The housing crisis is not just hitting low income earners.

    Would you be ok if this were 100% social housing?


  • Options
    #81
    kona
    Registered Users Posts: 7,525 ✭✭✭kona


    jon1981 wrote: »
    I agree with the traffic situation , which is why I said I would like to see it scaled down (by the way, I live in the affected area)



    There's still sufficient demand in that market to see these being sold out. This will relieve pressure elsewhere, i.e. someone paying 400k for a property in a less desirable area because they have no choice. The housing crisis is not just hitting low income earners.

    Would you be ok if this were 100% social housing?

    Id prefer if it was zero % social housing to be honest. Sounds like you would like.to live in this development! Ive no doubt they will sell out!

    But this politics is not my point. My point is build them elsewhere, too much development in dublin. Rural areas need investment more to be honest.
    Also if they sell this part of the park, whats next? Kids getting coaches to P.E out in westmeath?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #82
    expectationlost
    Registered Users Posts: 11,771 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    is the decision to be found here ? http://www.pleanala.ie/


  • Options
    #83
    Gloomtastic!
    Registered Users Posts: 8,350 ✭✭✭Gloomtastic!


    expectationlost wrote: »
    is the decision to be found here ? http://www.pleanala.ie/

    Try here https://www.clontarf.ie/news/planning-permission-granted-for-st-pauls-playing-fields-st-annes


  • Options
    #84
    expectationlost
    Registered Users Posts: 11,771 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    Gloomtastic! wrote: »
    Try here https://www.clontarf.ie/news/planning-permission-granted-for-st-pauls-playing-fields-st-annes
    thanks would love to know how to find that from the front page of the ABP site


  • Options
    #85
    Gloomtastic!
    Registered Users Posts: 8,350 ✭✭✭Gloomtastic!


    expectationlost wrote: »
    thanks would love to know how to find that from the front page of the ABP site

    It’s a public service website. Why would they let you to find something you want? :rolleyes:


  • Options
    #86
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,980 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    I'm on a phone and it was very easy to find...

    06/04/2018 - Decision issued for Strategic Housing Development application for residential accommodation at lands east of St. Paul's College, Sybil Hill Road, Raheny, Dublin 5 (Case reference: ABP-300559-18).


  • Options
    #87
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 16,921 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    Not a good decision for the area. The fast track planning is deeply flawed. DCC were against this development


  • Options
    #88
    expectationlost
    Registered Users Posts: 11,771 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    kbannon wrote: »
    I'm on a phone and it was very easy to find...

    06/04/2018 - Decision issued for Strategic Housing Development application for residential accommodation at lands east of St. Paul's College, Sybil Hill Road, Raheny, Dublin 5 (Case reference: ABP-300559-18).

    how did you find it?


  • Options
    #89
    cunavalos
    Registered Users Posts: 1,383 ✭✭✭cunavalos


    expectationlost wrote: »
    how did you find it?

    Its fairly prominent in the news section
    yKw8qqYxSZO5UmeZ0fiAJg.png


  • Options
    #90
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,980 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    expectationlost wrote: »
    how did you find it?

    A simple glance at the homepage made it straightforwards!


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #91
    expectationlost
    Registered Users Posts: 11,771 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    kbannon wrote: »
    A simple glance at the homepage made it straightforwards!
    yeah I want to know it exists outside of the newsfeed, I looking in the strategic hsouing section and couldn't find it


Advertisement