Tier 2 proposals published

Coillte_Bhoy · 29-06-2019 3:42pm #1

https://www.gaa.ie/football/news/gaa-ard-chomhairle-puts-forward-two-separate-tier-2-all-ireland-sfc-proposals/

Ard Chomhairle has this morning unanimously agreed to send forward two separate proposals on the formation of a Tier 2 All-Ireland senior football championship out to the wider membership for discussion.

A decision on the proposals will be taken at a Special Congress which will be staged at Pc Uhaoimh on October 19, with a view to implementation in time for the 2020 Championship summer.

Proposal A will feature the Provincial Championships as present with the current four rounds of All-Ireland Qualifiers reducing to two rounds and open to teams from Allianz Divisions 1 and 2 and any Allianz Division 3 and 4 teams who qualify for their Provincial Finals.

The Tier 2 Championship format of Proposal A is a straight knock out competition for 16 teams from across Divisions 3 and 4 that do not make their Provincial Finals.

There is the possibility for the competition to be organised on a geographical basis – northern and southern conferences for first round ties, quarter-finals and semi-finals to ensure less travel for teams and supporters, while also retaining local rivalries.

The semi-finals would be the only senior inter-county GAA events on their respective weekend – barring a major replay.

Proposal B which has gone forward for discussion is similar to the above and also features Division 3 and 4 teams that do not reach a Provincial Final entering a new Tier 2 championship.

A key difference is that in the event that a Division 3 or 4 team do reach a Provincial Final, to make up 16 teams in Tier 2 their place in Tier 2 would be taken by the lowest ranked Division 2 team from that year’s Allianz league.

The format for the Tier 2 Championship in Proposal B features an initial round of games which then creates a winners’ group and a losers’ group and so offers beaten counties a way of playing their way back into contention.

Proposal B would be played out on the following lines:

16 Teams involved

Rd 1: 8 Teams v 8 Teams

Rd 2a: 4 Winners Rd 1 v 4 Winners Rd 1

Rd 2b: 4 Losers Rd 1 v 4 Losers Rd 1

Rd 3: 4 Rd 2b Winners v 4 Rd 2a Losers

QF: 4 Rd 2a Winners v 4 Rd 3 Winners

Semi-finals & Final

An additional prize for the winner of the final under both proposals would be a place reserved in the following year’s All-Ireland Sam Maguire Championship, irrespective of their league position.

It is also envisaged that both proposals would have dedicated broadcast coverage and a marketing and promotional campaign with a dedicated All-Star selection and tour.

The finals under both proposals would take place at Croke Park.

The proposals will now be sent to counties for discussion with a final wording on the proposals to be agreed at a meeting of Ard Chomhairle in September.

OldMrBrennan83 · 29-06-2019 3:44pm

Do they really need a back door within the B too?

Anything that keeps the provincials is a waste of time anyway, and we all know that the marketing promises are lies.

jr86 · 29-06-2019 3:45pm

OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »

Anything that keeps the provincials is a waste of time anyway

This

Is there much difference between this and the now defunct, much maligned Tommy Murphy cup?

Clareman · 29-06-2019 3:51pm

The more and more the GAA try to keep the provincial championship the more and more they are going to destroy the championship. As soon as the provincial councils give up the little bit of power they have the better it will be for everyone. I don't think anyone cares about the provincial championship anymore, if Clare were to win Munster I'd say the only celebration would be that we got to the Super 8s.

Speaking of Clare, they are the only team outside of Kerry or Cork to win the Munster football championship since 1932, what kind of championship is that? but as long as Cork and Kerry keep their cushy home and away arrangement for the finals there won't be any changes

blowitupref · 29-06-2019 4:13pm

jr86 wrote: »

This

Is there much difference between this and the now defunct, much maligned Tommy Murphy cup?

Very little difference. For all the criticism of the provincial championship there is a lot more interest among players and supporters if they reach the final of it than a Tommy Murphy version 2 final would ever bring.

Mahony0509 · 29-06-2019 4:17pm

I think the provincial is staying the way it is because it's only two tiers, versus 5 in the hurling.

manofwisdom · 29-06-2019 4:23pm

Clareman wrote: »

I don't think anyone cares about the provincial championship anymore, if Clare were to win Munster I'd say the only celebration would be that we got to the Super 8s.

Maybe my eyes was playing tricks but it seemed like Roscommon players and supporters who couldn't contain their excitement by entering the field early care very much about the provincial championship.

Cavan this summer and Fermanagh last year had a huge interest and care about being part of Ulster final. Clare reaching a final would produce the same interest.

I have seen many team reach the last 8 via the back door and i haven't seen them celebrate in the manner of Roscommon,Monaghan or even Donegal did in recent years.

Clareman · 29-06-2019 6:42pm

manofwisdom wrote: »

Maybe my eyes was playing tricks but it seemed like Roscommon players and supporters who couldn't contain their excitement by entering the field early care very much about the provincial championship.

Cavan this summer and Fermanagh last year had a huge interest and care about being part of Ulster final. Clare reaching a final would produce the same interest.

I have seen many team reach the last 8 via the back door and i haven't seen them celebrate in the manner of Roscommon,Monaghan or even Donegal did in recent years.

I actually said when I saw the Roscommon supporters on the pitch that that'll be justification for the GAA to keep the provincial championship for another 10 years.

Connacht and Ulster are the only competitive championships at the moment and it doesn't look like that'll change any time soon.

jr86 · 29-06-2019 6:44pm

I'd imagine it'll be tricky enough to go ahead with this if laois or Westmeath - division 3 this year - or Cork - division 3 next year - make super 8s?

jr86 · 29-06-2019 6:45pm

Clareman wrote: »

I actually said when I saw the Roscommon supporters on the pitch that that'll be justification for the GAA to keep the provincial championship for another 10 years.

Similarly a Wexford win tomorrow will prolong the hurling provinces as they are for a good 10 years at least

Clareman · 29-06-2019 6:50pm

jr86 wrote: »

Similarly a Wexford win tomorrow will prolong the hurling provinces as they are for a good 10 years at least

Hurling provinces are set now because not only are attendences up where the GAA want them but they can say that it's a fair system as it doesn't guarantee top counties passage through as Galway, Clare, Tipp and Waterford have all missed out on the playoffs.

If the gaa wanted to make a proper championship they'd just have to follow the champions league type draw with seeded teams in a number of groups (say 8 groups of 4), the top 2 in each group goes through to knock out last 16, they quarters, semi and final but that would mean that the provincial councils lose all their power and the stronger teams would be at risk of being knocked out earlier as there would be more knock out football, as it is the likes of Dublin and Kerry are almost guaranteed semi final football through the super 8s.

Stacksofwacks · 29-06-2019 7:04pm

Lack of imagination is stunning. If provincials are to be retained then divide each provincial into A and B section with promotion/relegation between tiers. Have round robin groups of 3 teams with home and away matches. Have B all Ireland winners enter playoff for final spot in super 8. I would also trial b teams from stronger counties in B championship. Dublin B, Kerry B etc Obviouslyif one of those win B championship they cannot be promoted or enter Ai series

threeball · 29-06-2019 7:25pm

Usual hyperconvoluted GAA sh1te.

Clareman · 29-06-2019 7:26pm

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

Lack of imagination is stunning. If provincials are to be retained then divide each provincial into A and B section with promotion/relegation between tiers. Have round robin groups of 3 teams with home and away matches. Have B all Ireland winners enter playoff for final spot in super 8. I would also trial b teams from stronger counties in B championship. Dublin B, Kerry B etc Obviouslyif one of those win B championship they cannot be promoted or enter Ai series

There's only 6 counties in Munster, are you proposing Kerry, Cork and Clare are in A while Tipp, Limerick and Waterford stay in the B Munster against the second teams for Kerry Cork and Clare??? It's almost impossible to keep the provincial championship and a fair championship.

Have 8 groups of 4, first year seeding is based on NFL divisions so there's 1 from each division in each group, but every other year have it seeded based on past performance, for example the All Ireland Champions get 32 points, runner ups get 31, beaten semi finalists get 30 each, beaten quarter finalist get 16, beaten last 16 get 8 and every team get a point based on their group results (e.g. win every game you get 6 points) so the most points you can have in a year is 38, you hold onto point for the past 5 seasons.

The top 2 from each group play for Sam, the teams in 3rd play for the B Championship and the last team play for the C Championship.

OldMrBrennan83 · 29-06-2019 7:27pm

Clareman wrote: »

There's only 6 counties in Munster, are you proposing Kerry, Cork and Clare are in A while Tipp, Limerick and Waterford stay in the B Munster against the second teams for Kerry Cork and Clare??? It's almost impossible to keep the provincial championship and a fair championship.

Have 8 groups of 4, first year seeding is based on NFL divisions so there's 1 from each division in each group, but every other year have it seeded based on past performance, for example the All Ireland Champions get 32 points, runner ups get 31, beaten semi finalists get 30 each, beaten quarter finalist get 16, beaten last 16 get 8 and every team get a point based on their group results (e.g. win every game you get 6 points) so the most points you can have in a year is 38, you hold onto point for the past 5 seasons.

The top 2 from each group play for Sam, the teams in 3rd play for the B Championship and the last team play for the C Championship.

I'd agree mostly except no C. You should be heading home for finishing last in anything.

Clareman · 29-06-2019 7:29pm

OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »

I'd agree mostly except no C. You should be heading home for finishing last in anything.

Fair enough, figured keeping as many teams playing as long as possible would be the best solution for all involved.

OldMrBrennan83 · 29-06-2019 7:30pm

Clareman wrote: »

Fair enough, figured keeping as many teams playing as long as possible would be the best solution for all involved.

It's like giving the little fat lad a medal at the sports day because everyone has to get one these days. There has to a be a line where teams need to be told, if you want more games then go nuts and actually win some.

Clareman · 29-06-2019 7:36pm

OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »

It's like giving the little fat lad a medal at the sports day because everyone has to get one these days. There has to a be a line where teams need to be told, if you want more games then go nuts and actually win some.

Leitrim had a great day out with their win last, just because teams aren't the top tier (or even second tier) doesn't mean lads aren't putting in the effort.

OldMrBrennan83 · 29-06-2019 7:40pm

Clareman wrote: »

Leitrim had a great day out with their win last, just because teams aren't the top tier (or even second tier) doesn't mean lads aren't putting in the effort.

That is not remotely what I'm saying at all, Leitrim won games to get that day last week. I'm saying if you're put in a group and finish last then you should be eliminated rather than getting some token games. And if they don't want to be eliminated then they shouldn't finish last.

recyclebin · 29-06-2019 11:30pm

The All Ireland series needs to be separated from the provincials, full stop. It's a lot easier for certain teams in Connacht and Munster to make a provincial finals every year compared to Leinster or Ulster. They need to go to four regions of 8 if they want a fair provincial type system.

In comparison the Hurling is nearly fair except for the rules around Kerry getting into Munster.

threeball · 29-06-2019 11:35pm

recyclebin wrote: »

The All Ireland series needs to be separated from the provincials, full stop. It's a lot easier for certain teams in Connacht and Munster to make a provincial finals every year compared to Leinster or Ulster. They need to go to four regions of 8 if they want a fair provincial type system.

In comparison the Hurling is nearly fair except for the rules around Kerry getting into Munster.

Surely connaught is less predictable than Leinster?

The provincials should replace the fbd, o Byrne cup etc. Games and they should have no part in the championship. What's being proposed is total crap.

recyclebin · 29-06-2019 11:39pm

16 Teams involved
Rd 1: 8 Teams v 8 Teams
Rd 2a: 4 Winners Rd 1 v 4 Winners Rd 1
Rd 2b: 4 Losers Rd 1 v 4 Losers Rd 1
Rd 3: 4 Rd 2b Winners v 4 Rd 2a Losers
QF: 4 Rd 2a Winners v 4 Rd 3 Winners
Semi-finals & Final

This is exactly how it works for the senior club championship in Laois and it works well.

It could be used for both A and B championships. For the first year you put division 1 and 2 teams into the A championship and the division 3 and 4 teams into the B championship.

Then at the end of the year the winners of B get promoted to A. The 4 losers in the A playoff in relegation semi finals and finals to decide who drops to the B.

For year two you don't have any connection between league and championship.

OldMrBrennan83 · 29-06-2019 11:41pm

recyclebin wrote: »

The All Ireland series needs to be separated from the provincials, full stop. It's a lot easier for certain teams in Connacht and Munster to make a provincial finals every year compared to Leinster or Ulster. They need to go to four regions of 8 if they want a fair provincial type system.

In comparison the Hurling is nearly fair except for the rules around Kerry getting into Munster.

If they must keep them then instead of League > Championship, they could do something like Provincials > Championship (based on more of a league). Only problem is whether the suits would go for it as their provincial competitions would end up as no more than run-out competitions for the big teams. Maybe having some carrot for the championship draw based on winning or getting to the final of the province might help but the balance is still stupid.

recyclebin · 29-06-2019 11:44pm

threeball wrote: »

Surely connaught is less predictable than Leinster?

The provincials should replace the fbd, o Byrne cup etc. Games and they should have no part in the championship. What's being proposed is total crap.

Yes, Connaught is less predictable than Leinster but there are only really three teams that are really in a chance of getting to the final and guaranteed a place in the 'A' championship under the proposal. In Leinster you need to avoid Dublin in the draw and beat two or three evenly matched teams to get to a Leinster final.

grbear · 30-06-2019 2:06pm

I don't see why counties would vote for these structure changes.

There's a task force in place aimed at sorting out the fixture calendar and adopting this new structure before they issue some sort of findings just seems foolish. Why adopt changes that could be labelled outdated before they are even implemented?

I also don't see how these changes will generate more revenue for the GAA. Ultimately if we want to see the Dublin model replicated and put more games development officers in more counties then the GAA need to be making more money. Maybe I'm missing something but the proposals on the table look like they end up with less tickets being sold.

Maybe I'm being harsh here but they just look like a rush job to ensure Horans has some sort of legacy from his time as president. Massaging one man's ego should be well done the list of the GAAs priorities so I hope both proposals get chucked out.

rossie1977 · 30-06-2019 2:44pm

An additional prize for the winner of the final under both proposals would be a place reserved in the following year’s All-Ireland Sam Maguire Championship, irrespective of their league position.

So if reading that correct the prize for winner is a place in qualifiers following year.

The_Honeybadger · 30-06-2019 3:15pm

Both proposals fall well short of the change required. The imbalance in the various provincial championships is the single biggest issue and there is no acknowledgment or proposal to address that. I just don’t see the point in any of the changes put forward. I understand the provincial councils would be staunchly against change but do the GAA want a proper marketable and fair competition or don’t they? It can’t be done without upsetting a few people I am afraid.

The ideal setup for me would be to move the excellent league competition to the summer and run off a seeded 32 team knockout championship alongside it. The championship winners would have max five games. Playing the best competition in the muck and rain in January and February is outdated. Perhaps the provincials could be played then as a warm up competition for the season.

Clareman · 30-06-2019 3:18pm

Those proposals would mean that Cork would be in tier 2, there is no way Cork, Kerry, Tipp and a few more would vote in favour of thay

Coillte_Bhoy · 30-06-2019 4:17pm

Clareman wrote: »

Those proposals would mean that Cork would be in tier 2, there is no way Cork, Kerry, Tipp and a few more would vote in favour of thay

Ya but by getting to the Munster final they would be into the AI series

Clareman · 30-06-2019 4:31pm

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Ya but by getting to the Munster final they would be into the AI series

I don't think they'd be willing to take the chance

ToBeFrank123 · 30-06-2019 8:45pm

The provincial championships are still reasonably alive except of course for Leinster which has been ruined by Dublin dominance.

The provincials are part and parcel of the race for Sam Maguire and the allure of it.

The GAA need to make more of an effort to help the weakest counties to compete.

Hawkeye9212 · 15-07-2019 5:46am

A tiered championship can't be created unless the provincials are separated from the All-Ireland. I think needs its own Joe McDonagh.

Tier 1 could has 10 teams split into two groups of 5. The teams who finish top advance to the semi-finals. The teams who finish second advance to the quarter-finals. The teams who finish bottom are relegated to Tier 2.

Tier 2 has 6 teams. The top two teams advance to the final and the quarter-finals of Tier 1. They are also promoted to Tier 1. The teams who finish bottom are relegated to Tier 3 which consists of the remaining 16 teams.

grbear · 16-09-2019 11:58am

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/gaa-ignore-gpas-appeal-to-defer-vote-on-second-tier-38501081.html

I'm not the biggest cheerleader for the GPA but waiting until the Fixtures Task Force have had a chance to issue their report seems like the sensible approach to me.

Sadly it looks like Horan is determined to try and bulldoze this B tier proposal through so he can have some sort of legacy. A shame really as a well implemented B tier could be a real benefit.

jacool · 16-09-2019 12:06pm

With the dominance of Dublin GAA not ending anytime soon, perhaps the other 30 counties, along with New York and London could enter this Tier 2 competition.
You have 32 counties then, so straight knockout or league groups of 4 with the winners (or winners and runners-up if we really want to make money out of it) going into a knockout competition?
(Half) tongue in cheek.

Coillte_Bhoy · 16-09-2019 4:19pm

https://www.gaa.ie/news-archive/news/tier-2-championship-proposal-confirmed/?fbclid=IwAR0Pe2WVpXHexYDTBVSmH903rL7ssQY19mSULMknj4QN6uoY44-gWtYHvtg

A meeting of the GAA’s Ard Chomhairle last weekend agreed the agenda for next month’s Special Congress in Cork. The meeting will debate the addition of a proposed new Tier 2 Football Championship, as well as deliberate over the introduction of three new playing rules for the game.

Two proposed formats for a possible new Tier 2 Football Championship have been in circulation since late June.

Following discussions, Ard Chomhairle chose to send forward one of these formats for debate and vote at the Special Congress, which will take place at Pc Uhaoimh on October 19.

Under this proposal the Provincial Championships will be played as currently.

The All-Ireland Qualifiers will be open to teams from Allianz League Divisions 1 and 2 and any Division 3 or 4 teams who qualify for their Provincial Final.

This will mean only two full rounds of All-Ireland Qualifiers in future as opposed to four - an additional Preliminary Round is provided for however, in years where more than 8 teams are eligible to participate in Round 1.

It is proposed to then introduce a new straight knockout Tier 2 Championship for all Division 3 and 4 teams that do not reach their Provincial Finals.

A range of marketing and promotional supports will be committed to the new competition, as well as the use of Croke Park for semi-finals and finals and a planned increase in TV coverage.

Following a review of the Experimental Rules that were trialed in Gaelic Football during the Allianz League and Provincial Cup competitions, it has been decided to forward three of them for proposed permanent introduction at all levels of the game.

Based on the research carried out by the GAA’s Standing Committee on Playing Rules, led by Professor David Hassan, the following are to be voted on at Special Congress:

· The taking of all kick-outs from the 20 metre line

· the introduction of a 10-minute ‘sin bin’ for players who receive a black card

· The awarding of a ‘mark’ to players who cleanly catch a ball kicked from on or outside the opposition’s 45m line, that travels at least 20m and without touching the ground

The SCPR decided to withdraw the experimental playing rule regarding Sideline kick to be kicked forward, as based on the analysis undertaken by the Committee from the Provincial Pre-Season Competitions and Allianz Leagues 2019 and feedback from players, the impact of the proposed rule was minimal.

Ard Chomhairle also agreed to amend the scheduling of the existing All-Ireland SFC Quarter-Final format for the final year of its trial in 2020.

In Round 1 of the group stage of the Quarter-Final, the four provincial champions will be at home against one of the teams who came through the Qualifiers – as was the case in 2019.

It was also agreed that for 2020, Round 2 will see the winners of the Round 1 matches play each other, while the losers of the Round 1 matches will also face off.

At present there has been a round of games that are scheduled to take place at Croke Park. It is now planned to give the authority to CCCC to fix these games for venues other than Croke Park - if deemed appropriate. This would require the approval of a full GAA Congress and it is intended to bring forward a motion on this to Congress 2020 next February.

If passed, this would come into effect for the 2020 Championship which is the final year of the current three-year trial involving the new Quarter-Final group phase.

Happyilylost · 16-09-2019 4:47pm

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

https://www.gaa.ie/news-archive/news/tier-2-championship-proposal-confirmed/?fbclid=IwAR0Pe2WVpXHexYDTBVSmH903rL7ssQY19mSULMknj4QN6uoY44-gWtYHvtg

Interesting. I agree with the three rules introduction although I think the inside mark is still a bit iffy. Changes to the Super Eights is a smart idea. Still leaves the potential for dead rubbers but its the best they can do.

threeball · 16-09-2019 4:52pm

Happyilylost wrote: »

Interesting. I agree with the three rules introduction although I think the inside mark is still a bit iffy. Changes to the Super Eights is a smart idea. Still leaves the potential for dead rubbers but its the best they can do.

Inside mark is iffy and the kickouts from 20m line is pointless. They'll still kick it short. I'd prefer to see them making the goalkeeper kick it outside the 45 if they receive a back pass. Get rid of scores from the hand too.

franglan · 16-09-2019 5:04pm

Not a fan of the mark inside 45, slows games down could lead to a good free taker shooting contest - particularly at club level. Borders aussie rules stuff - not for me.

Boom__Boom · 16-09-2019 5:31pm

· the introduction of a 10-minute ‘sin bin’ for players who receive a black card

How in the name of god's hell does anyone think this will improve the game ?

All it does is reduce the punishment for committing black card fouls.

If you reduce the puishment for committing fouls, players are going to commit more fouls.

Currently if a player commits a black card offense, it means their game is over.

Under this rule, the player will get to take a breather on the bench and come back in 10 minutes later. I'm sure that every single team when they go down to 14 will do everything to slow down the game as much as possible during this 10 minutes - lads going down holding their heads, taking as mmuch time as possible for kickouts, frees, side-line balls, holding possession, backwards passing, the whole gamut of slow boring play that no-one wants to see.

Will it make life any easier for referees? No - because they are still human and will still make the same mistakes. The rules on what is and isn't a black card are remaining the same.

I defy anyone to come up with a decent reason as to why/how this is supposed to improve the game.

lawred2 · 16-09-2019 5:34pm

Lipstick on the already repeatedly lipsticked pig

The only format that will ever work is 8 groups of 4. Round robin. Top 2 into a championship, bottom two into b championship.

Then each into 4 groups of 4 with the winners going into to semi finals of their a and b championships.

No replays.

Minimum games 6
Maximum games 8

For every single county.

lawred2 · 16-09-2019 5:35pm

The provincials have to go.

Hawkeye9212 · 16-09-2019 5:48pm

Seedings based on the 2019 Provincial championships:

Tier 1 (17 teams)

Connacht

Galway, Mayo, and Roscommon.

Leinster

Dublin, Meath, Laois, Kildare, and Westmeath.

Munster

Clare, Cork, and Kerry.

Ulster

Armagh, Cavan, Donegal, Fermanagh, Monaghan, and Tyrone.

Qualifiers

PQR

Laois v Westmeath

Round 1

Mayo v Laois/Westmeath
Fermanagh v Kildare
Tyrone v Clare
Monaghan v Armagh

Round 2

Cavan v Mayo/Laois/Westmeath
Galway v Fermanagh/Kildare
Meath v Tyrone/Clare
Cork v Monaghan/Armagh

Super 8s

Group 1

Kerry
Donegal
Cavan/Mayo/Laois/Westmeath
Galway/Fermanagh/Kildare

Group 2

Dublin
Roscommon
Meath/Tyrone/Clare
Cork/Monaghan/Armagh

Tier 2 (15 teams)

Connacht

Leitrim, London, and Sligo.

Leinster

Carlow, Longford, Louth, Offaly, Wexford, and Wicklow.

Munster

Limerick, Tipperary, and Waterford.

Ulster

Antrim, Derry, and Down.

Round 1

Carlow v Sligo
Longford v Wexford
Offaly v Wicklow
Down v London
Leitrim v Antrim
Louth v Limerick
Derry v Waterford

Quarter-Final

Tipperary v Carlow/Sligo
Longford/Wexford v Offaly/Wicklow
Down/London v Leitrim/Antrim
Louth/Limerick v Derry/Waterford

TrueGael · 16-09-2019 5:50pm

Tier 2 nonsense another consequence of the decision to dope the Golden Child over 15 years ago..............

Fr Tod Umptious · 16-09-2019 6:35pm

Is it just me or do we usually see the very one sided match-up in the Provincial Championship more so than in the qualifiers

Sure the match-up of Limerick v Mayo in 2018 happens, but there is a higher chance of Limerick v Kerry happening, or Cork v limerick, or Dublin v Louth etc etc, you get the point

So why try to organise the qualifiers on merit rather than the provincials

But sure we all know the reason for that

the sooner someone has the balls to make the change in the provincials the better

But I fear I'll be waiting

Bonniedog · 16-09-2019 6:46pm

Are Munster and Leinster winners not in the same group next year?

Just an aside, but will make for a more unpredictable competition assuming Dublin and Kerry come through again.

Hawkeye9212 · 16-09-2019 7:04pm

The proposal isn't as bad as I thought it would be. I'm still not a fan of this attempt to find a middle ground between a tiered championship and the provincial championships. Colm O'Rourke is right. We need at least three tiers like the ladies. The provincial championships should be seperated from the All-Ireland championship.

Masteryos · 16-09-2019 7:17pm

I really don't get why the GAA struggles with making a good 32 team competition for one of their highest rate trophy.

Have it so that either the provisional's happen before the actual competition starts with them all finishing and starting in the same time frame, then move onto the all-Ireland were the teams are put into:

8 groups of 4. Groups could be based on random or seeded via how they did in the league or even provisional.
Each team plays one home and away game with the third game at a neutral ground.
Top 2 from each group carry on to the All-Ireland last 16.
Bottom 2 from each group carry on to the tier 2 competition.
Each last 16 tie can either be played with the higher ranking team in the competition getting home advantage or if this feels like it is too much, lower ranking team gets home advantage.
The quarter finals of each competition takes place in a neutral venue.
the finals and Semi's take place in Croke park.

Each team gets 4 games in the All-Ireland, multiple stadiums get used with fans from all over travelling. Make it set in a way that no one can claim one team has been given an unfair advantage over the others.

If that isn't possible then maybe it is time to do away with the provional's or have them set up so that the minors take over the importance of each competition.

Hawkeye9212 · 16-09-2019 7:30pm

Masteryos wrote: »

I really don't get why the GAA struggles with making a good 32 team competition for one of their highest rate trophy.

Have it so that either the provisional's happen before the actual competition starts with them all finishing and starting in the same time frame, then move onto the all-Ireland were the teams are put into:

8 groups of 4. Groups could be based on random or seeded via how they did in the league or even provisional.
Each team plays one home and away game with the third game at a neutral ground.
Top 2 from each group carry on to the All-Ireland last 16.
Bottom 2 from each group carry on to the tier 2 competition.
Each last 16 tie can either be played with the higher ranking team in the competition getting home advantage or if this feels like it is too much, lower ranking team gets home advantage.
The quarter finals of each competition takes place in a neutral venue.
the finals and Semi's take place in Croke park.

Each team gets 4 games in the All-Ireland, multiple stadiums get used with fans from all over travelling. Make it set in a way that no one can claim one team has been given an unfair advantage over the others.

If that isn't possible then maybe it is time to do away with the provional's or have them set up so that the minors take over the importance of each competition.

8 groups of 4 sounds nice but we're not dealing with the top 32 teams on a continent or in the world. Wicklow wouldn't be in the premier competition in any other sport except the NFL. At least the Cleveland Browns can spend a lot of money recruiting new players.

Frozen Veg · 16-09-2019 7:50pm

How would 8 groups of 4 address anything. Same problems different format.

Two tiers of 16.

4 groups of 4 in each.

Top two of each group to quarter finals. Bottom team to relegation play off. One up one down.

Play the provincials in a league format.

Bonniedog · 16-09-2019 7:57pm

For the lower teams, the provincials are still an opportunity to have maybe a big day and occasionally take a scalp in the qualifiers. Don't see how effectively relegating them to a lower status in a competition that no one cares about is going to help.

The lower tier hurling cups are different as outside the McCarthy teams, and top two in McDonagh, , the rest are in different universe so nice to have competitions that they have genuine chance in against teams on similar level.

Hawkeye9212 · 16-09-2019 8:11pm

Proposal for a three tier championship.

Senior Championship(10 teams)

2 groups of 5.

1st and 2nd - SF.
6th - Relegation final.

Group A

Donegal
Roscommon
Meath
Cavan
Monaghan

Group B

Dublin
Kerry
Mayo
Tyrone
Galway

Intermediate Championship (10 teams)

Same format as the senior championship.

Group A

Cork
Armagh
Laois
Westmeath
Fermanagh

Group B

Kildare
Clare
Tipperary
Down
Louth

Junior Championship

2 groups of 6.

1st - SF
2nd and 3rd - QF.

Group A

Offaly
Carlow
Waterford
Derry
London

Group B

Longford
Sligo
Leitrim
Antrim
Wicklow
Limerick

Tier 2 proposals published

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