Redeployment

Whereisgalway · 30-03-2020 7:42pm #1

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/covid-19-teachers-may-be-redeployed-outside-education-sector-1.4216125?mode=amp

I for one don’t mind if I am asked to do my bit for the nation

CraftySue · 30-03-2020 8:03pm

I would need to know where we would be deployed to and doing what, how much training etc would be provided. As it is, we are kept busy with online teaching. My contract runs out in August, not sure if I have a position next year - I don't want to be put in a postition where I end up been sick for weeks/months, and unable to search for a job in September.

byhookorbycrook · 30-03-2020 8:07pm

Primary - spent a lot of time checking/ correcting work today as well as answering queries . Being immune-comprised , I’d need to be given “ work at home” materials.

History Queen · 30-03-2020 8:26pm

Ah I just posted about this on another thread! Should have checked if someone had opened a new thread first! I haven't heard anything about this from school, I just came across the article on Twitter.

I'm absolutely willing to do whatever is asked of me. I wonder what happens to my classes though? Particularly my exam classes.

readysetgo · 30-03-2020 8:41pm

History Queen wrote: »

Ah I just posted about this on another thread! Should have checked if someone had opened a new thread first! I haven't heard anything about this from school, I just came across the article on Twitter.

I'm absolutely willing to do whatever is asked of me. I wonder what happens to my classes though? Particularly my exam classes.

It depends on what you are doing. The SNAs are obviously going to be first in line as they are not currently supporting pupils. After that it will be SET teachers. I know in a friends school they have been doing absolutely nothing the past few weeks and today suddenly have started jumping into classroom teachers online classes doing 'co-teaching'. Classroom teachers will be exempt. I am talking about primary sector but imagine most schools the same, primary and secondary. And in primary Walking Principals and walking deputies are fairly idle apart from schools with meals programs

Carodh · 30-03-2020 10:38pm

I’m an SNA in a Primary school. Heard the possiblity of this from Forsa last Week. I’m willing to do my bit to help out but I am concerned where it will have to be done. I live 35 miles from the nearest large town. My laptop stopped working with the Windows 10 update and it won’t do a thing. If I’m provided with a laptop then no bother doing from home or going into school to work from there.
My friend said her cousin who is a Social Worker is being sent for Swabbing training this week. Would really hope it’s not work like this with two young kids.

sullivlo · 30-03-2020 10:45pm

I have significant lab experience in the type of testing that they are doing on covid19 samples. I don’t have a medical scientist qualification, but I do have PhD and postdoc experience in them, so I have contacted the relevant people to volunteer my services, if required. I am currently teaching from home, but happy to juggle things if needed or do evenings/weekends.

Starkystark · 30-03-2020 10:47pm

readysetgo wrote: »

It depends on what you are doing. The SNAs are obviously going to be first in line as they are not currently supporting pupils. After that it will be SET teachers. I know in a friends school they have been doing absolutely nothing the past few weeks and today suddenly have started jumping into classroom teachers online classes doing 'co-teaching'. Classroom teachers will be exempt. I am talking about primary sector but imagine most schools the same, primary and secondary. And in primary Walking Principals and walking deputies are fairly idle apart from schools with meals programs

Sorry, but I'm really annoyed by that post. As a SET teacher in a secondary school - I have been flat out as normal supporting students in their learning as well as providing differentiated lessons and activities for those co-teaching classes. I have also been working with and supporting parents of those students who are doing Level 2 Learning Programmes; making sure we are continuing work on their folders.

For you to make a sweeping comment like regarding SET teachers is completely demoralizing. In my opinion - people who make those comments about SET teachers are on par with those from the anti-teacher brigade.

Ray Donovan · 31-03-2020 12:15am

The Support Teachers in my school are doing zero! All the mainstream class teachers have set up Google Classroom and work from there but not so much as a squeak from the Support Teachers.

Primary - 220 kids.

readysetgo · 31-03-2020 6:15am

Starkystark wrote: »

Sorry, but I'm really annoyed by that post. As a SET teacher in a secondary school - I have been flat out as normal supporting students in their learning as well as providing differentiated lessons and activities for those co-teaching classes. I have also been working with and supporting parents of those students who are doing Level 2 Learning Programmes; making sure we are continuing work on their folders.

For you to make a sweeping comment like regarding SET teachers is completely demoralizing. In my opinion - people who make those comments about SET teachers are on par with those from the anti-teacher brigade.

Well Done you, your principal will see your great work and see that you are needed from an educational point of view and so wont be redeployed.
I did point out I was talking about primary and any teacher I have talked to in both primary and secondary have said their SET teams have pretty much disappeared off into the sunset, and provide no support educationally. The most recent secondary teacher i met said it was the running joke on school Whatsapp how the SET team are on holidays already. Perhaps you are the exception or perhaps in secondary things are slightly different? There are always a certain percentage of teachers that give worthy cause for bashing by the anti-teacher brigade i am afraid.
My 'sweeping statement'is based on evidence from teachers, family members and principals i know personally and i have put the question to. Both primary and secondary.
I dont see how you can be so offended when all I said was that SNAs will be first to be redeployed and then SET teachers. They will be looked at next based on if they are needed. Youre a bit sensitive if you feel that fact is a sweeping offensive statement.

One principal told me that a number of SET teachers refused to set work for pupils because they felt it was putting too much pressure on the children and parents. I feel you are taking my general point a but too personally rather than looking at the majority. Perhaps secondary are doing more based on your experience but not from what ive been told.

mirrorwall14 · 31-03-2020 7:37am

Life is so mental trying to teach online I’d take redeployment ðŸ€¦*♀️ In reality though I’m teaching all my classes remotely and also have no childcare for my two children so I’m not sure how practical redeployment would be. Working from home depending on what it is would be

Starkystark · 31-03-2020 8:39am

readysetgo wrote: »

Well Done you, your principal will see your great work and see that you are needed from an educational point of view and so wont be redeployed.
I did point out I was talking about primary and any teacher I have talked to in both primary and secondary have said their SET teams have pretty much disappeared off into the sunset, and provide no support educationally. The most recent secondary teacher i met said it was the running joke on school Whatsapp how the SET team are on holidays already. Perhaps you are the exception or perhaps in secondary things are slightly different? There are always a certain percentage of teachers that give worthy cause for bashing by the anti-teacher brigade i am afraid.
My 'sweeping statement'is based on evidence from teachers, family members and principals i know personally and i have put the question to. Both primary and secondary.
I dont see how you can be so offended when all I said was that SNAs will be first to be redeployed and then SET teachers. They will be looked at next based on if they are needed. Youre a bit sensitive if you feel that fact is a sweeping offensive statement.

One principal told me that a number if SET teachers refused to set work for pupils because they felt it was putting too much pressure on the children and parents. I feel you are taking my general point a but too personally rather than looking at the majority. Perhaps secondary are doing more based on your experience but not from what ive been told.

Go complain to unions and the department if you’re so caught up we’re not doing anything OR become a SET teacher yourself if life is that easy...and maybe you could forward a plan to us all if an unprecedented event like this happens again.

You’re sweeping comment is a sweeping comment from other people’s sweeping comments. How do they actually know they’re not doing anything? I know some of my essential work like the level 2 learning programmes goes unseen as people like yourself are so misinformed and would run at the thought of even doing a second of it.

I’m taking it personally because it’s my role you’re attacking and it’s the inclusion of my students you’re also attacking.

There are some mainstream teachers doing nothing too. Not a squeak about that from you!

byhookorbycrook · 31-03-2020 11:57am

readysetgo wrote: »

It depends on what you are doing. The SNAs are obviously going to be first in line as they are not currently supporting pupils. After that it will be SET teachers. I know in a friends school they have been doing absolutely nothing the past few weeks and today suddenly have started jumping into classroom teachers online classes doing 'co-teaching'. Classroom teachers will be exempt. I am talking about primary sector but imagine most schools the same, primary and secondary. And in primary Walking Principals and walking deputies are fairly idle apart from schools with meals programs

I’m an SET and we certainly haven’t been idle !

CraftySue · 31-03-2020 1:23pm

readysetgo wrote: »

I did point out I was talking about primary and any teacher I have talked to in both primary and secondary have said their SET teams have pretty much disappeared off into the sunset, and provide no support educationally. .........
My 'sweeping statement'is based on evidence from teachers, family members and principals i know personally and i have put the question to. Both primary and secondary.
.............

One principal told me that a number of SET teachers refused to set work for pupils because they felt it was putting too much pressure on the children and parents. ..............

I would apply those sweeping genaralisations to all primary teachers, based on evidence from family members, teachers and principals. I could also say that primary teachers have just disappeared into the sunset. I know many parents including myself are giving a sheet at the beginning of the week with numerous tasks to be done/ no corrections, feedback etc. This is an improvement from when schools initially closed. We have numorous accounts on facebook, telling parents not to stress about schoolwork, as learning happens organically in the home- to account for their lack of contact. talking to primary teachers and principals - they feel it is too difficult to apply active teaching methodologies/ too much pressure on students/ students have no access to I.T. or it's been used by parents. I feel your sweeping generalisation could be applied to primary teachers, just as much as SET teachers, and I'm sure someone could easily have a POP at post primary. It's a pity people are so quick to have ago at others, and are so quick to throw others under the bus. Why not reach out to SET to help support other students, this is a learning curve for everyone. Additionally alot of work SET teachers do, is behind the scenes, but some are just very quick to dismiss what they don't understand.

spurious · 31-03-2020 1:34pm

Come on, this is not the place to be slagging each other off.

wirelessdude01 · 31-03-2020 1:37pm

Teachers turning on teachers. Who'd have ever thought it!!!

readysetgo · 31-03-2020 7:27pm

Starkystark wrote: »

Go complain to unions and the department if you’re so caught up we’re not doing anything OR become a SET teacher yourself if life is that easy...and maybe you could forward a plan to us all if an unprecedented event like this happens again.

You’re sweeping comment is a sweeping comment from other people’s sweeping comments. How do they actually know they’re not doing anything? I know some of my essential work like the level 2 learning programmes goes unseen as people like yourself are so misinformed and would run at the thought of even doing a second of it.

I’m taking it personally because it’s my role you’re attacking and it’s the inclusion of my students you’re also attacking.

There are some mainstream teachers doing nothing too. Not a squeak about that from you!

There are some very sensitive SET teachers out there obviously, maybe due to years of under-appreciation but there are no medals handed out in most lines of work.

I'll differentiate my point to make it less offensive and understandable maybe. The question is about redeployment, and the criteria is based on if staff are needed educationally in these times.

This is my opinion, you might grade a different % but with regards availability for redeployment based on educational needs,
SNAs - 100% not providing educational support
SET - 50%
Subject/Classroom - 10%

this is a forum for opinions, my anecdotal stories if teachers doing very little are just as valid as your anecdote about the great work you do.

Your comment that I would run at the thought of being an SET teacher is laughable. I never attacked the inclusion of your students?! And I never said mainstream/subject teachers are perfect, I said a percentage of teachers give ammunition for justifiable teacher bashing.

I think your anger is mis-directed and way over the top based on me just mentioning the order in which i think redeployment will work.

Whereisgalway · 31-03-2020 9:14pm

The feeling I’m getting from this is we’ll insist the SNAs are redeployed before us? Although we are all classroom based let’s just focus on us teachers

Whereisgalway · 01-04-2020 12:48pm

I’d be happy to work against those virus over the easter & summer holiday if I was asked

P2C · 01-04-2020 12:58pm

The school my kids goto finally yesterday uploaded stuff on google classroom. The school closed on the 12th of March. There are 17 pupils in the primary school. The majority of the stuff reference was already widely shared on social media. Just in time I suppose for Easter holidays so not really expecting anything again until the 20th of April.

fall · 01-04-2020 1:12pm

https://www.education.ie/en/Circulars-and-Forms/Active-Circulars/cl0027_2020.pdf

Announcement made, SNA's to be redeployed

Icyseanfitz · 01-04-2020 2:21pm

What exactly do they expect we can do? (i am a post primary SNA) I am not medically trained so i cannot replace any type of medical staff whether thats in a hospital, care facility or home for elderly with disabilities etc. I am not trained for clerical work either. The students i work with are all mainstream with very little care needs, and only one with medical (diabetes). I assist with note taking and making sure students are focused and attempting their work to the best of their ability.

If they send potentially 16,000 SNAs out to work in different care facilities etc. are they not going to spread this disease like crazy? And thats not even taking into account our families, My partner has a compromised immune system and asthma so shes high risk, my dad is in heart failure (also high risk) and i have to work in close proximity to him on our farm multiple times a week. I am absolutley terrified after hearing this news, for the pittance they pay us they suddenly expect us to go out and replace staff such as nurses/medical staff and put our families at extreme risk (17 died yesterday alone).

I would also note that i have absolutely zero issue with helping in anyway i can from home (even though i cannot really see how i could assist my students without being physically next to them).

fall · 01-04-2020 2:29pm

They are talking about contact tracing as an example, so lists of people to ring and say they have been in contact with someone and telling them to self isolate.

CraftySue · 01-04-2020 2:39pm

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

What exactly do they expect we can do? (i am a post primary SNA) I am not medically trained so i cannot replace any type of medical staff whether thats in a hospital, care facility or home for elderly with disabilities etc. .................... suddenly expect us to go out and replace staff such as nurses/medical staff and put our families at extreme risk

I was surprised by this as well, how can SNA's be expected to replace nurses or medical staff? I thought it was going to be contact tracing SNA's would be doing... were you given any notice of this before today's announcement?

Millem · 01-04-2020 2:39pm

Contract tracing and data entry.
Not much training necessary.

CraftySue · 01-04-2020 2:52pm

Millem wrote: »

Contract tracing and data entry.
Not much training necessary.

But they are not been asked to do contact tracing....they expected to replace nurses/medical personal in community settings, with no training.

rainbowtrout · 01-04-2020 3:01pm

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

What exactly do they expect we can do? (i am a post primary SNA) I am not medically trained so i cannot replace any type of medical staff whether thats in a hospital, care facility or home for elderly with disabilities etc. I am not trained for clerical work either.
.

Nowhere does it say you would be asked to perform medical duties.

Clerical work is not that hard. Data entry and contact tracing is probably most of what will be required, which will free up medical staff to do the actual medical work.

CraftySue · 01-04-2020 3:03pm

According to rte news,https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0401/1127800-sna-redeployment/

"They will be asked to replace nurses and other medical staff in settings such as community healthcare facilities for children with disabilities so that those healthcare staff can transfer to frontline services"

Icyseanfitz · 01-04-2020 3:13pm

CraftySue wrote: »

I was surprised by this as well, how can SNA's be expected to replace nurses or medical staff? I thought it was going to be contact tracing SNA's would be doing... were you given any notice of this before today's announcement?

not a bit of notice given, neither where any of us asked for our opinion. We did question management on how we could help but never heard back.

Millem · 01-04-2020 3:38pm

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

not a bit of notice given, neither where any of us asked for our opinion. We did question management on how we could help but never heard back.

Fill out the questionnaire and write down your skills. They will match up your skills to a new assignment.

CraftySue · 01-04-2020 4:22pm

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

not a bit of notice given, neither where any of us asked for our opinion. We did question management on how we could help but never heard back.

Icyseanfitz -are you with a union, might be worth contacting Forsa; just for clarification of where people might be going/ what they are exected to do. Hope it works out ok for you, not knowing what you will be doing must make it all the more scary.

spurious · 01-04-2020 10:01pm

Whereisgalway, please take your contributions elsewhere.
This forum will not be used to belittle people teachers work alongside.
Don't bother us for a week, thanks.

mirrorwall14 · 02-04-2020 4:03pm

It does look like there’s going to have to be redeployment into the nursing homes going by this

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/coronavirus-almost-100-staff-and-residents-in-one-nursing-home-test-positive-d%C3%A1il-hears-1.4219102

titan18 · 02-04-2020 8:51pm

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

It does look like there’s going to have to be redeployment into the nursing homes going by this

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/coronavirus-almost-100-staff-and-residents-in-one-nursing-home-test-positive-d%C3%A1il-hears-1.4219102

I can't see teachers or SNAs agreeing to that.

Icyseanfitz · 02-04-2020 10:57pm

Am I understanding this new rte article correctly? Are they putting a freeze on any new SNAs next September? They terrify us with all this reallocation talk to high risk areas and then a day later say our new SNA allocations are the first to get the axe. I must be imagining this or reading it wrong, they surely can't have that level of neck.

killbillvol2 · 02-04-2020 11:01pm

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

Am I understanding this new rte article correctly? Are they putting a freeze on any new SNAs next September? They terrify us with all this reallocation talk to high risk areas and then a day later say our new SNA allocations are the first to get the axe. I must be imagining this or reading it wrong, they surely can't have that level of neck.

What new SNA allocations?

Icyseanfitz · 02-04-2020 11:15pm

We generally get a number of new SNAs every year dependant on new students in Vs old students out on top of retirements etc.

killbillvol2 · 02-04-2020 11:32pm

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

We generally get a number of new SNAs every year dependant on new students in Vs old students out on top of retirements etc.

You could also lose SNAs on that basis.

There were no allocations made for this year as they were supposed to be bringing in a new system which has now been kicked to touch.

Schools will retain their current number of SNAs for the moment with the option of applying for extra if warranted.

Edit/ This was all explained in the article on RTE.

Icyseanfitz · 02-04-2020 11:48pm

killbillvol2 wrote: »

You could also lose SNAs on that basis.

There were no allocations made for this year as they were supposed to be bringing in a new system which has now been kicked to touch.

Schools will retain their current number of SNAs for the moment with the option of applying for extra if warranted.

Edit/ This was all explained in the article on RTE.

So if a school needs a new SNA with new students coming in or current SNAs retiring the system should work as normal? My understanding from the article was that all current SNAs are being kept but they aren't bringing anyone new in, "frozen" as is. Again I could be picking up on this wrong but everything is so confused these last couple of days with regards to SNAs.

killbillvol2 · 02-04-2020 11:51pm

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

So if a school needs a new SNA with new students coming in or current SNAs retiring the system should work as normal? My understanding from the article was that all current SNAs are being kept but they aren't bringing anyone new in, "frozen" as is. Again I could be picking up on this wrong but everything is so confused these last couple of days with regards to SNAs.

You obviously stopped reading half way through the article.

Icyseanfitz · 03-04-2020 12:02am

killbillvol2 wrote: »

You obviously stopped reading half way through the article.

Helpful, I admitted I could have the story wrong and asked for clarification if I did.

Ray Donovan · 03-04-2020 9:17pm

Just going back to my primary school for a moment with 220 students in an urban area.

Background - All mainstream classrooms have set up Google Classrooms and upload a workpack on a Monday morning at 9am that will last the week. Kids and parents are then in contact with the teachers on this platform for questions, advice, corrections etc.

On Wednesday I had an off the record chat over the phone with our Deputy Principal about the current situation and he was totally and utterly exasperated with the Special Ed Teachers in our school. He told me that they had to all extents and purposes had gone into hiding since the school closures and were contributing practically zero to keeping the show on the road.

However, when the rumours started to circulate about redeployment he said his phone never stopped ringing with the Special Ed Teachers offering their help and support. He was absolutely raging. In fact their "contributions" have now ended up giving more work to the mainstream teacher!!

Obviously this is not the case across the board and I would hope that the school I work in is the exception rather than the norm but this is the situation on the ground in one particular school.

Icyseanfitz · 04-04-2020 12:42am

Fresh Garda vetting forms are being sent to SNAs from HSE as part of this redeployment. Apparently we are all being vetted as "healthcare assistants".

Purple Mountain · 04-04-2020 12:50am

Ray Donovan wrote: »

Just going back to my primary school for a moment with 220 students in an urban area.

Background - All mainstream classrooms have set up Google Classrooms and upload a workpack on a Monday morning at 9am that will last the week. Kids and parents are then in contact with the teachers on this platform for questions, advice, corrections etc.

On Wednesday I had an off the record chat over the phone with our Deputy Principal about the current situation and he was totally and utterly exasperated with the Special Ed Teachers in our school. He told me that they had to all extents and purposes had gone into hiding since the school closures and were contributing practically zero to keeping the show on the road.

However, when the rumours started to circulate about redeployment he said his phone never stopped ringing with the Special Ed Teachers offering their help and support. He was absolutely raging. In fact their "contributions" have now ended up giving more work to the mainstream teacher!!

Obviously this is not the case across the board and I would hope that the school I work in is the exception rather than the norm but this is the situation on the ground in one particular school.

Is your set up the norm for primary school? I ask because in the primary school my child attends, on the 12th March, all students got a list of work they could do for 3 weeks. There was no obligation on them only to do what they could.
There's no monitoring of if the children are doing it, only the parents to keep tabs.

TheDriver · 04-04-2020 1:13am

Purple Mountain wrote: »

Is your set up the norm for primary school? I ask because in the primary school my child attends, on the 12th March, all students got a list of work they could do for 3 weeks. There was no obligation on them only to do what they could.
There's no monitoring of if the children are doing it, only the parents to keep tabs.

I've seen very different approaches in primary. I've seen daily work through email and things like padlet/seesaw for infants to 6th class to ansolutely no work being set.

TheDriver · 04-04-2020 1:13am

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

Fresh Garda vetting forms are being sent to SNAs from HSE as part of this redeployment. Apparently we are all being vetted as "healthcare assistants".

Forsa clarified this evening that the title was an unfortunate generalised term used on the form by the agency.

CraftySue · 04-04-2020 2:05am

TheDriver wrote: »

Forsa clarified this evening that the title was an unfortunate generalised term used on the form by the agency.

Unfortunate as right. I know we are living in strange times but lack of communication and explanation is understandably frightening alot of SNAs around the country. I wonder if this is a government toe dipping excercise, making these announcements and then back peddling to see how much support and reaction there is to this idea. If I was an SNA I would be seriously questioning their union, they have been in ongoing discussions with the government, but haven't really been communicating with SNAs, I'd be asking unions what the trade off is and why they are not working on the behalf of SNAs.

mirrorwall14 · 04-04-2020 7:02am

Purple Mountain wrote: »

Is your set up the norm for primary school? I ask because in the primary school my child attends, on the 12th March, all students got a list of work they could do for 3 weeks. There was no obligation on them only to do what they could.
There's no monitoring of if the children are doing it, only the parents to keep tabs.

My junior infant is getting 7-8 videos and links/suggestions a day from his primary school teacher via class dojo. I can’t get near doing all of them but he does really like the morning prayer one, not the prayer bit at all but she calls the roll and does the day/weather etc

Icyseanfitz · 04-04-2020 10:42am

TheDriver wrote: »

Forsa clarified this evening that the title was an unfortunate generalised term used on the form by the agency.

It can be an "unfortunate generalised term" all it wants but I won't be filling it up, I am an SNA and I work for the department of education. I have no idea what signing that little piece of paper means for me down the line. I'll do their questionnaire (that asks zero pertinent questions or leaves no space to expand on what skills you have) but I sure as hell am not signing up to be a health assistant at a time like this! Are any other public servants being asked?

Millem · 04-04-2020 10:46am

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

Are any other public servants being asked?

Yes they are and have already been reassigned. They have been told it is a 3 month assignment.

Icyseanfitz · 04-04-2020 11:21am

Millem wrote: »

Yes they are and have already been reassigned. They have been told it is a 3 month assignment.

Who else was asked to do this questionnaire and fill out a vetting form to effectively make them healthcare assitants? Where are they getting reassigned to? Does this 12 week redeployment take contracted holidays into account or not?

Redeployment

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