Boards.ie uses cookies. By continuing to browse this site you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Click here to find out more x
Post Reply  
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
04-02-2020, 07:17   #16
katherinexoxo
Registered User
 
katherinexoxo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 11
Thanks everyone!

So many great links KildareFan.
I got very excited about the Glasnevin cemetery as I have an exact date of death, age, address & name but the infant's name does not come up in the search. I am almost tempted to pay for the ones that list her with her middle name just to see. I wonder if they are willing to help you if you go there, or maybe you have to pay for blind searches anyway? The other names I would be looking for Mary & John Walsh have way too many hits. My family names from Dublin are Walsh, Byrne, Kelly & Fisher. I am getting some DNA matches with the surname Byrne in Wicklow so someday I may be able to unravel that.

The Kildare family name I am searching is Corcoran. I am not sure if they were originally from Rathdaniel townland, Rathvilly Parish, County Carlow or Ballyraggan/Graney/Knockpatrick townlands, Baltinglass Parish, County Kildare. The 1863 marriage record for Margaret Farrell & John Corcoran lists them living at Rathdaniel (wife's parish likely?). I have been researching this family since I started genealogy, only recently got a break, it's a very long story. Too much to add here. Confusion over the mother's surname and I have yet to solve. Several of the offspring went to the US, 4 boys stayed in Ireland at least for awhile. This is why I finally gave in and did the DNA test. I really wanted to find the townland for this ancestor, my 2nd great grandfather.

I am hoping to find a death notice for Patrick Corcoran 6/1946 or his brother John Corcoran 1/28/1934. I am thinking the parents, Margaret died 1911 & John died 1879, are less likely to have a notice, but I will look when I get to Dublin. Margaret & son Patrick are buried at Knockpatrick cemetery near their home. Son John may be buried with his infant son & wife Mary who both died in 1907.

There were lots of Corcorans from Castledermot as well. I think sons Christoper & James are listed in the Carlow town census in 1901 but I can't find either of them definitely after that. When I look at Griffiths there is a Christopher & John Corcoran listed in Davidstown lower which abuts Graney West. Is the address from the 1911 census supposed to correlate with the plots on Griffith's valuation?

I will post the Donovan info from Cork next.

Everyone on here is so incredibly nice, helpful & knowledgable. I wish I had discovered this site a long time ago.

Yes srmf5, I was thinking of visiting the Workhouse at Portumna on the way back to Dublin. Does anyone know if you died in the Workhouse did that mean you were destitute or maybe you were just sick and died in the hospital there?

I love all the awesome suggestions!!!!!!
katherinexoxo is offline  
Advertisement
04-02-2020, 10:03   #17
pinkypinky
Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 5,065
Glasnevin might give you a couple of free look-ups if you do the tour (which costs). With death records on irishgenealogy.ie from 1878 onwards though, you should be able to match up a cert with a burial. If you're talking about infant deaths, don't forget to look under "unknown" as the first name. If he/she was not baptised, they might be listed that way.

Workhouse could be either of your suggestions - hospital or poverty.
pinkypinky is offline  
04-02-2020, 23:34   #18
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 4,988
Quote:
Originally Posted by katherinexoxo View Post
...........
There were lots of Corcorans from Castledermot as well. ........... Does anyone know if you died in the Workhouse did that mean you were destitute or maybe you were just sick and died in the hospital there?
If you are overnighting at Castledermot you could give yourself a treat and stay in Kilkea Castle just outside the village. Not cheap but very nice!

Workhouse deaths - the year of death is a very important indicator. During the early years of the Workhouse regime they would have been used by destitute people. By the late 1800's they were increasingly being used as hospitals - for e.g. I have family ancestry that includes an unmarried girl who gave birth in Tipperary Workhouse in 1891, it like many others was used as a 'maternity home'. I also have a kinsman who died of Phthysis (Tuberculosis) in Clonmel Asylum (the former workhouse) in 1904 - he was, by the standards of the day, a reasonably wealthy/successful farmer owning and leasing land.
There is a good site on workhouses HERE-it's a bit UK-centric but covers Ireland also.
pedroeibar1 is offline  
(2) thanks from:
05-02-2020, 00:16   #19
tabby aspreme
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,532
OP there are still Corcorans living in Davidstown townland, near Castledermot, dont mix up Davidstown townland, with Davidtown estate which is also near Castledermot, but the townland and estate are about 5 miles apart.
You could also look at Levitstown graveyard, as a lot of people from the Castledermot area were buried there before the newer cemetery was opened at Coltstown Castledermot. Graney is really only a townland now , it once was a highly populated village with a flax mill and a convent, but not anymore.
tabby aspreme is offline  
05-02-2020, 21:26   #20
Balmed Out
Registered User
 
Balmed Out's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,332
https://freepages.rootsweb.com/~coli...Graveyards.htm
Perhaps castleventry or clogagh of the places you wouldnt be familiar with.

Good list of cork graveyards, https://historicgraves.com has a lot transcribed.

https://tinyurl.com/utycayr

Theres an Annie born to JS Donovan and Julia Moore in Clonakilty.
https://tinyurl.com/vzonqkx Mary
https://tinyurl.com/v4a4pem Jno
https://tinyurl.com/r8r6xqg Julia

All from Crohane. Didnt spot any marriage record.

As for food there are plenty of restaurants and bars in Clonakilty though we have lost a few of the best recently. Drop me a message closer to the time with what kind of a place would suit.
Balmed Out is offline  
Advertisement
06-02-2020, 01:21   #21
katherinexoxo
Registered User
 
katherinexoxo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 11
Hi!

pinkypinky - the infant Mary Margaret Walsh was baptized on 6/25/1878 at St. Catherine's (Dublin) she died on 8/10/1878 at 15 Meath Street. I thought for sure I could get a definitive find there (Glasnvein) which of course would lead me to the next genealogy jackpot lol. Always my thought process however.

pedroeiber1- I think I might go for the Kilkea Castle, it looks very nice. Was planning to get further along like Kilkenny but it's vacation. Next day would likely go to the Rock of Cashel & the Cobh Heritage Center, might be a longish day of driving. Eventual destination near Clonakilty.

tabby aspreme-Thanks for the info. I am going to troll those farms around Davidstown, Graney West & even Ballyraggan. I cannot figure out if it is possible to find the 1911 Census address of 5 Graney West, Kildare to the current location today. I have tried Eircode like people suggested. I have looked at the aerial maps on Google Earth, Griffith's plots, the ordinance survey. Plot #5 Graney West on Griffith's valuation is now empty, it is the closest to what was once the village of Graney I think. Even if I find someone on the ground, I just don't know that they will recall the Corcorans who lived there & passed away in 1930s-1940s.

I love this board -Thank you!
katherinexoxo is offline  
06-02-2020, 01:31   #22
katherinexoxo
Registered User
 
katherinexoxo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 11
Balmed Out- Those are all my people!!!

Last one Julia was the daughter who stayed at least until 1911, she married twice both husbands passed but she was there in the 1911 Census with 2 daughters. A remote possibility that the daughter Mary Anne Neill married Daniel Hayes (RIC guy) in 1915 in Clonakilty but the wrong father is listed for her Daniel Neill (her father was Denis Neill). Geez those RIC sergeants moved around too so if she did marry him, maybe they moved.

Or maybe they left Ireland? Can't help thinking there could be descendants around Clonakilty though dang it.......
katherinexoxo is offline  
06-02-2020, 09:01   #23
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 4,988
Quote:
Originally Posted by katherinexoxo View Post
Geez those RIC sergeants moved around too so if she did marry him, maybe they moved.

Or maybe they left Ireland? Can't help thinking there could be descendants around Clonakilty though dang it.......
Kilkea to Cashel to Cobh is not too much in a day. However Kilkenny Castle is worth a visit, as is the much older and spartan Cahir Castle (near Cashel). If you are staying in Clonakilty consider Dunowen House, a very nice place to stay.

RIC – there are good records for its members and a Facebook group for researchers. It was disbanded in 1922 and in the new Republic its members were reviled in the prevailing political climate. As a result many left the 26 counties and moved with their families to England. Many others transferred to Northern Ireland and joined the RUC (Royal Ulster Constabulary). It can take time to research individuals in the 1901/1911 Census, because – if on duty – they were returned on the Barracks form and identified by initials only for security reasons. Daniel Hayes would be simply 'DH'.
pedroeibar1 is offline  
06-02-2020, 10:27   #24
spurious
Category Moderator
 
spurious's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by katherinexoxo View Post
Geez those RIC sergeants moved around too so if she did marry him, maybe they moved.
.
You couldn't serve in your native county or that of your wife, so yes. they would have moved.
I think he was army though, rather than RIC. The marriage record says 'Private Soldier'.

**edit That Daniel Hayes' record is on fold3, but damaged. If you would like it, please PM me an email address.

Last edited by spurious; 06-02-2020 at 10:37.
spurious is offline  
Thanks from:
Advertisement
06-02-2020, 12:01   #25
Earnest
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by katherinexoxo View Post
Hi!

...

tabby aspreme-Thanks for the info. I am going to troll those farms around Davidstown, Graney West & even Ballyraggan. I cannot figure out if it is possible to find the 1911 Census address of 5 Graney West, Kildare to the current location today. I have tried Eircode like people suggested. I have looked at the aerial maps on Google Earth, Griffith's plots, the ordinance survey. Plot #5 Graney West on Griffith's valuation is now empty, it is the closest to what was once the village of Graney I think. Even if I find someone on the ground, I just don't know that they will recall the Corcorans who lived there & passed away in 1930s-1940s.

I love this board -Thank you!
In the census, no. 5 is simply the fifth house that the enumerator came to. If you can identify any of the houses, you might be able to guess the road that the enumerator was walking or cycling on.

No. 5 in the census has no connection to the no. 5 in Griffith's Valuation. If using the Griffith's Valuation maps, be aware that they are not contemporaneous. Check the toggle for maps, which changes the year, to see if it's always no. 5. The Valuation Office in Dublin (personal visits only) will give you updates on who was occupying which plot up to recently.
Earnest is offline  
(2) thanks from:
06-02-2020, 12:22   #26
pinkypinky
Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 5,065
Very good point Earnest.
Katherine was also in touch with me by PM and I've given her details of the Valuation Office.
pinkypinky is offline  
06-02-2020, 20:53   #27
katherinexoxo
Registered User
 
katherinexoxo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 11
Hi all,

pinkypinky- I have found 2 burials at Glasnevin for my family! The address search really helps narrow things down with such common names as John & Mary, Walsh & Byrne, etc. Bummer that the additional individuals in the grave appear to be unrelated. Thanks for directing me.

pedroeibar1- I looked at Dunowen already but they only take 1 week stays in the summer. Cahir & Kilkenny also interest me. I think I might drive my husband crazy on this trip. He doesn't mind driving in Europe but he might not enjoy my hoping to meet everyone from each possible farm in the townland.

Going to PM a couple of you when I organize my thoughts better.

As always thank you!
katherinexoxo is offline  
Thanks from:
07-02-2020, 13:53   #28
maisiedaisy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 77
For your Clonakilty search: As regards graveyards near Crohane, Kilnagross and Maulnarouga are both old graveyards in the area, their corresponding churches are closed. Kilnagross would be very close to Crohane, here’s the link to the historic graves page https://historicgraves.com/graveyard
maisiedaisy is offline  
07-02-2020, 22:20   #29
katherinexoxo
Registered User
 
katherinexoxo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 11
Hello again!

KildareFan- Thank you for telling me about Glasnevin, I have found at least 2 children buried there already. The genealogist has been very helpful. I bought one of the extended graves for the Walsh child mentioned above & the other burials were not related, but for the second one I only purchased the individual entry. She let me know that 2/5 of the extended burials were of the same surname, living at the same address. One could spend a lot there however in somewhat blind searches.

maisiedaisy & Balmed Out- Thank you, I agree that those graveyards are more logical for Knockskagh/Crohane. It's hard to know what is actually there when I don't live there. I found the Clonakilty Parish records for my family & thought the distance to the Catholic Church in the town of Clonakilty seemed a bit far. It's hard to find information online about former chapels & closed churches. And thanks for the historic graves link, I would probably have never found that either.

Does this seem like the correct description for Kilnagross? i hope this link works:
https://www.libraryireland.com/topog...rbery-Cork.php
Wondering when that chapel ceased to hold services & if the building in the graveyard pictures is a newer structure or the one built circa 1821?



I have a couple of stupid questions. I feel like there is so much I just don't know yet.

1) I understand the Irish naming pattern. What is not clear to me is if someone is named Mary Margaret or Margaret Mary did they interchange those names? If your mother or aunt had the name Mary for instance were you named after her (Mary Margaret) but never really used that name Mary? Instead you were known as Margaret?

The child above is named Mary Margaret at baptism & on death certificate, but the cemetery record says Margaret Mary with the listing being just Margaret. Her mother is Mary. The next child is named Mary Teresa.


2) Are churches in Ireland locked outside of service hours? Wondering if I can expect to see the interior if I cannot make it to a Mass.

3) If you lived in a townland in a specific Catholic Parish would one always have your children baptized at that church even if geographically another church looked closer?

I am referring to the ancestors that lived at the triangulation of Kildare, Wicklow & Carlow. I know they were married at Rathvilly Parish. Then there appears to be migration to Ballyraggan and finally Graney West so their children were all baptized at Baltinglass Parish. The Catholic church in Castledermot actually looks the closest of them all.

4) I understand the marriage almost always occurred in the bride's Parish. If the bride & groom were from different town lands was it more typical for them to settle/stay near the groom's family or the bride's?



I appreciate everyone's patience & continuing to help me. My sister told me a tale of her trip to Ireland. She has a child who gets car sick and they needed to pull over to clean him up & the vehicle. An Irish man came out of his home, said something humorous & invited them in to help with the clean up. Like so, you have all been wonderfully kind in helping me!

Katherine
katherinexoxo is offline  
07-02-2020, 23:16   #30
srmf5
Registered User
 
srmf5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 218
Quote:
Originally Posted by katherinexoxo View Post
I have a couple of stupid questions. I feel like there is so much I just don't know yet.

1) I understand the Irish naming pattern. What is not clear to me is if someone is named Mary Margaret or Margaret Mary did they interchange those names? If your mother or aunt had the name Mary for instance were you named after her (Mary Margaret) but never really used that name Mary? Instead you were known as Margaret?

The child above is named Mary Margaret at baptism & on death certificate, but the cemetery record says Margaret Mary with the listing being just Margaret. Her mother is Mary. The next child is named Mary Teresa.


2) Are churches in Ireland locked outside of service hours? Wondering if I can expect to see the interior if I cannot make it to a Mass.

3) If you lived in a townland in a specific Catholic Parish would one always have your children baptized at that church even if geographically another church looked closer?

I am referring to the ancestors that lived at the triangulation of Kildare, Wicklow & Carlow. I know they were married at Rathvilly Parish. Then there appears to be migration to Ballyraggan and finally Graney West so their children were all baptized at Baltinglass Parish. The Catholic church in Castledermot actually looks the closest of them all.

4) I understand the marriage almost always occurred in the bride's Parish. If the bride & groom were from different town lands was it more typical for them to settle/stay near the groom's family or the bride's?



I appreciate everyone's patience & continuing to help me. My sister told me a tale of her trip to Ireland. She has a child who gets car sick and they needed to pull over to clean him up & the vehicle. An Irish man came out of his home, said something humorous & invited them in to help with the clean up. Like so, you have all been wonderfully kind in helping me!

Katherine
1) In terms of naming patterns, it can really just depend. For example, a person named John Joseph would typically be known as John Joe. In my own family, I have an ancestor named Mark John. He went by Mark. He had children who were known by the first name and others by the second name. There were simply some with just one name like Peter. His son William Joseph went by Joe, his daughter Mary Agnes Philomena went by Molly, Michael John went by Michael, Annie Marcella went by Nancy, Teresa Bernadette went by Teresa, Martin Furey Ellis went by Furey and Mark Valentine by Val. William Joseph had a son named William Joseph Mark who just went by Mark.

2) I think that most churches are open outside service hours for a certain amount of time but get locked at some stage.

3) I do think that they baptised their children in their own parish. I know that one generation of a family in my tree were baptised in one parish while the next generation were baptised in another despite living in the same townland. However, I think that this occurred because of a boundary change of the parish so that some townlands were transferred to another parish.

4) I think that it was more typical for them to live near the groom's family. That's been the case for all my ancestors that I know of except for one couple. However, in that case, the rest of the family had left the townland where the groom was from and moved to the town. The couple started off living near the bride's family but then moved to the town to run a hotel for a while but the husband's oldeest brother returned from America to run the hotel so they moved to another area of town, then moved to another street, moved to a small house in the countryside just outside town and then moved to a large house on the other side of town.

Last edited by srmf5; 08-02-2020 at 18:31.
srmf5 is offline  
Post Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Remove Text Formatting
Bold
Italic
Underline

Insert Image
Wrap [QUOTE] tags around selected text
 
Decrease Size
Increase Size
Please sign up or log in to join the discussion

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Share Tweet