Significant increase' in babies born into homelessness

Keyzer · 18-11-2019 12:22pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

its not a lack of contraception thats making people who cant afford it have kids. kids are the key to more free stuff.

This is exactly the point.

In some instances, children are being used like a currency for more social welfare pay outs.

Kermit.de.frog · 18-11-2019 12:25pm

On the issue of housing incidentally - Raheny says NO to new homes in their area

https://twitter.com/ShaneODonoghue/status/1196038556814381056

marieholmfan · 18-11-2019 12:27pm

Keyzer wrote: »

This is exactly the point.

In some instances, children are being used like a currency for more social welfare pay outs.

as long as it's Irish people having children that's fine.

collywobble7 · 18-11-2019 12:29pm

Wanderer78 wrote:

some people seem to think we all have equal opportunities in life, we all have the ability to get access to our most critical of needs, such as housing

We do

Wanderer78 · 18-11-2019 2:31pm

collywobble7 wrote:

We do

We actually don't, 10,000 homeless, and growing, is a fairly good, in fact, a fcuking amazing indicator, we really dont

Gunmonkey · 18-11-2019 2:59pm

Lillyfae wrote: »

These people will never have to share, they have made sure of that by guaranteeing the taxpayer that it wasn't just them that needed to be housed. Not to mention what has stopped them from accessing the same education that we are all offered? What's stopping them from getting jobs before they have 3+ children and can't access the workforce using "childcare costs" as an excuse??

Dont forget needing to have a house with 5 minutes of their Ma's house and she lives in the city centre so......

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Keep it coming folks, we re almost at full retard status now, go boards!

Bit late, we reached that at post #17.

Huntergonzo · 18-11-2019 3:02pm

Welfare babies

"Cause I got a golden ticket"

Wanderer78 · 18-11-2019 3:02pm

Gunmonkey wrote:

Bit late, we reached that at post #17.

Oh God no, I do think the bestest of retardness is still to come, I've faith in boards

18-11-2019 3:46pm

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

On the issue of housing incidentally - Raheny says NO to new homes in their area

Fair play to committed socialist and champion of the working classes Aodhan O'Riordan for battling to prevent these apartments being built.

I also look forward to the labour parties condemnations of the homelessness round the city.:rolleyes:

chris525 · 21-11-2019 2:50pm

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Stop child benefit after the 2nd child for everyone regardless.

Problem solved.

They should never have introduced these benefits in the first place. It creates dependency culture.

If they had never introduced these things people would have gotten by and we would be far better off now.

But once they introduce them the damage is done.

Birth rate will plummet and migration will increase.

21-11-2019 2:57pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Only people with money should have kids, the rest should be sterilised, and put the homeless in jail

Putting the homeless in jail seems a bit extreme, but - somewhat unusually for you - the rest of your post makes perfect sense.

I assume that if I continue reading this thread, I'll soon see you reverting to your usual balderdash.

James Brown · 21-11-2019 3:03pm

Richard571 wrote: »

The homeless charity industry really winds me up sometimes.

See latest news story on RTÉ on increasing amount of babies born into homelessness...,“The charity's founder (Focus) Sr Stan said it was "shocking and appalling" and "fundamentally wrong", adding that the situation was "worse than ever”.

What is wrong is the complete lack of personal accountability- WTF are people having children for if they are in temporary accommodation. The state should not be there to support everyone in every situation if they recklessly add to their own woes.

I’m sure they do good work and I know there are genuine cases but this undermines their position in my mind.

End of rant.

*picks up rant stick*
Height of ignorance OP.
You do know we've an entire actually profit based industry creating much of this problem?
Fine Gael are making this the norm. Of course people will go on with their lives in what ever environment they find themselves.

Who says people aren't trying their best? This is victim blaming. We can't have great employment figures, a strong economy and an increase in children born into homelessness without thinking theres a disconnect happening here.

Regardless of your anti poor people/taxpayers who make less than me bias, we have the same weights and measures to gauge homelessness and poverty we've had for a long time now, agreed upon by all in authority, (except when FG have Murphy move the goal posts) and we are in perma crises getting worse by the day. That's on the government not a handful of welfare ninja's.

It shouldn't. Why let a few Independent newspaper chancer of the week stories turn you against the less well off, struggling tax payers?

Antares35 · 21-11-2019 3:06pm

Salary Negotiator wrote: »

Heard a Focus Ireland ad on the radio earlier fund raising for kids born into homeless. Cant help but think it’d be cheaper to offer free contraception.

That would set the PC brigade off though. Rah rah hands off my reproductive rights etc. It's me roight to have a choy-ild.

radiotrickster · 21-11-2019 3:08pm

Salary Negotiator wrote: »

Heard a Focus Ireland ad on the radio earlier fund raising for kids born into homeless.

The ad says ‘children are *now* being born into homelessness.’ Surely this isn’t a new thing and homeless people have been having babies for years. It’s terrible, no doubt about it, but the ad is just an emotional tug at the heartstrings to guilt-trip people in the run-up to Christmas imo.

Wanderer78 · 21-11-2019 3:11pm

171170 wrote:

I assume that if I continue reading this thread, I'll soon see you reverting to your usual balderdash.

I'm still convinced we can go full retard on boards yet on this one, I wait patiently

McGrath5 · 21-11-2019 3:14pm

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

On the issue of housing incidentally - Raheny says NO to new homes in their area

https://twitter.com/ShaneODonoghue/status/1196038556814381056

BANANA'ism (Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anything).

Stolen from the David McWilliams podcast

suicide_circus · 21-11-2019 3:52pm

homelessness is social problem but it is also an industry, in so far as it employs a fair amount of people.

James Brown · 21-11-2019 3:56pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

homelessness is social problem but it is also an industry, in so far as it employs a fair amount of people.

The industry would go out of business if not for the government and LA backed business of buying and renting property.
The government back the industry that exacerbates these problems. They work against the tax payer, the lower waged, the more so.
Charities are a symptom of a problem not a cause.

HorrorScope · 21-11-2019 3:58pm

Are we supposed to be all teary eyed over this? Anyone with half a brain knows exactly why this increase is happening, anyone who doesn’t is probably the type to have a little weep at the Focus Ireland advert :rolleyes:

suicide_circus · 21-11-2019 4:02pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

The industry would go out of business if not for the government and LA backed business of buying and renting property.
The government back the industry that exacerbates these problems. They work against the tax payer, the lower waged, the more so.
Charities are a symptom of a problem not a cause.

has any society wiped out homelessness?

some people are not in a position mentally to maintain a household but also not disturbed enough to be sectioned.

When i refer to the industry i would say that like any industry it is in its interest to market its product

James Brown · 21-11-2019 4:14pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

has any society wiped out homelessness?

some people are not in a position mentally to maintain a household but also not disturbed enough to be sectioned.

When i refer to the industry i would say that like any industry it is in its interest to market its product

Will always be a homeless element. FG have industrialised it. We are breaking records is all sections.

True. Do you think the numbers of people unwilling to work and capable of gaming the system is growing by the same amount the people in crisis are? How come with the current FG policy we are breaking records? Why hasn't this always been the case, how come it's at it's worse and growing under this and previous FG government?

I'm sure there are people taking advantage, but we are a long long way from being in a position to make the charities or working tax payers the bigger problem here.

21-11-2019 4:59pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Will always be a homeless element. FG have industrialised it. We are breaking records is all sections.

True. Do you think the numbers of people unwilling to work and capable of gaming the system is growing by the same amount the people in crisis are? How come with the current FG policy we are breaking records? Why hasn't this always been the case, how come it's at it's worse and growing under this and previous FG government?

I'm sure there are people taking advantage, but we are a long long way from being in a position to make the charities or working tax payers the bigger problem here.

So FG are responsible for Johnnie visiting Annie in her homeless shelter, them getting jiggy with no thought for the consequences?

James Brown · 21-11-2019 5:04pm

Deleted User wrote: »

So FG are responsible for Johnnie visiting Annie in her homeless shelter, them getting jiggy with no thought for the consequences?

No.
Do you just ignore the comments and go with what ever gist helps the government and LA's shirk responsibility for anything?
What about my comments do you disagree with and why?

Alrigghtythen · 21-11-2019 5:36pm

HorrorScope wrote: »

Are we supposed to be all teary eyed over this? Anyone with half a brain knows exactly why this increase is happening, anyone who doesn’t is probably the type to have a little weep at the Focus Ireland advert :rolleyes:

Completely correct...

21-11-2019 5:43pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Oh God no, I do think the bestest of retardness is still to come, I've faith in boards

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Who says people aren't trying their best? This is victim blaming.

You were right.

lemd · 21-11-2019 5:48pm

Roger_007 wrote:

I thought you had to 'fall' to get pregnant?

I believe the opposite is true.

James Brown · 21-11-2019 5:53pm

Deleted User wrote: »

You were right.

Glad you agree. Thanks.

21-11-2019 5:56pm

lemd wrote: »

I believe the opposite is true.

The rise comes before the fall.

Idbatterim · 21-11-2019 6:09pm

I dont know, but maybe the 300,000,000 about to be wasted on the welfare bonus, could be spent far more wisely... :rolleyes:

housing,health, infrastructure etc...But no, lets send most of it to retailers, bookies and to be pissed up against the wall in pubs :rolleyes: The uk christmas bonus is ten pounds FYI!

https://www.thesun.ie/money/4800396/christmas-social-welfare-payments-paid-december/

lemd · 21-11-2019 6:14pm

Deleted User wrote:

The rise comes before the fall.

Oh! I wrote my comment with a much darker tone in mind. I like your happier innuendo better, can I pretend I meant that?

21-11-2019 7:46pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

I'm still convinced we can go full retard on boards yet on this one, I wait patiently

I doubt that all that many posters will follow your lead.

22-11-2019 1:24am

Matt Barrett wrote: »

No.
Do you just ignore the comments and go with what ever gist helps the government and LA's shirk responsibility for anything?
What about my comments do you disagree with and why?

Why are you bringing in the Government in a thread about the homeless having babies?

What do you expect the Government to do to prevent people getting pregnant while homeless?

randomspud · 22-11-2019 1:50am

Idbatterim wrote: »

I dont know, but maybe the 300,000,000 about to be wasted on the welfare bonus, could be spent far more wisely... :rolleyes:

The drug dealers are going to have some week next week.

The Kinihan Christmas Bonus.

Infini · 22-11-2019 2:27am

NIMAN wrote: »

Allowing for total lack of personal responsibility is unforgivable. What is wrong with people?

Too many people are either idiots or complete chancers but then again Human Stupidity is the cancer of this existence.....

Beasty · 22-11-2019 10:18am

Wanderer78 is threadbanned

James Brown · 22-11-2019 4:11pm

salonfire wrote: »

Why are you bringing in the Government in a thread about the homeless having babies?

What do you expect the Government to do to prevent people getting pregnant while homeless?

It's actually a thread about the increase in babies born into homelessness, not just a family planning thread. The government and to a lesser extent the LA's exacerbate the problem and have made 'emergency' the norm.

Cap children's allowance after two kids or maybe try have less people becoming homeless? Just throwing that out there. Do people pass homeless people in doorways and shout in their face, 'Look at you, how dare you! You're costing me a fortune'?

Balf · 22-11-2019 5:52pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Will always be a homeless element. FG have industrialised it. We are breaking records is all sections.

True. Do you think the numbers of people unwilling to work and capable of gaming the system is growing by the same amount the people in crisis are? How come with the current FG policy we are breaking records? Why hasn't this always been the case, how come it's at it's worse and growing under this and previous FG government?

I'm sure there are people taking advantage, but we are a long long way from being in a position to make the charities or working tax payers the bigger problem here.

I think you're right to seek a deeper dialogue. That said, I'm not sure its all about the current Government, either.

The specific kind of story cited in the OP doesn't contribute to a deeper dialogue. It actually fuels the search by Government for a quick fix, which is how you then find people competing with State bodies to buy up scarce homes - helping no-one in the greater scheme of things.

In that deeper dialogue, we'd probably agree that nothing much will change in the next year or two. While there's no particular need to zero in on recent parents, if someone claims a significant increase in babies born into homelessness, its not (IMHO) completely out of order to observe that folk who don't have security of tenure right now shouldn't be banking on a change in that situation in the foreseeable - and might therefore need to postpone plans to have a family.

Neither (IMHO) is it beyond the realms of good taste to notice the perverse incentives that come out of a welfare system. Prior to the citizenship referendum, we experienced significantly numbers of people entering the State to give birth here as having an Irish born child was seen a path to residency. However uncomfortable it is to say that, it's actually true.

So, yes there's structural problems. There's a positive incentive on landowners to hold back housing supply, and make a bigger return from selling a small number of expensive properties. And someone with seven children in temporary accommodation is more likely to get a hearing from the national media than someone with none.

And, yes, we struggle to find a way of discussing that in a way that speaks to all of the features involved.

James Brown · 22-11-2019 7:38pm

Balf wrote: »

I think you're right to seek a deeper dialogue. That said, I'm not sure its all about the current Government, either.

The specific kind of story cited in the OP doesn't contribute to a deeper dialogue. It actually fuels the search by Government for a quick fix, which is how you then find people competing with State bodies to buy up scarce homes - helping no-one in the greater scheme of things.

In that deeper dialogue, we'd probably agree that nothing much will change in the next year or two. While there's no particular need to zero in on recent parents, if someone claims a significant increase in babies born into homelessness, its not (IMHO) completely out of order to observe that folk who don't have security of tenure right now shouldn't be banking on a change in that situation in the foreseeable - and might therefore need to postpone plans to have a family.

Neither (IMHO) is it beyond the realms of good taste to notice the perverse incentives that come out of a welfare system. Prior to the citizenship referendum, we experienced significantly numbers of people entering the State to give birth here as having an Irish born child was seen a path to residency. However uncomfortable it is to say that, it's actually true.

So, yes there's structural problems. There's a positive incentive on landowners to hold back housing supply, and make a bigger return from selling a small number of expensive properties. And someone with seven children in temporary accommodation is more likely to get a hearing from the national media than someone with none.

And, yes, we struggle to find a way of discussing that in a way that speaks to all of the features involved.

I agree with much of the above however where government, this government, very much comes into play is the idea that the problems are becoming worse and they refuse to change tact.
We always have and always will have a homeless problem. But as the numbers grow so much year on year under this governments tenure there comes a time were blaming those in the throws of poverty, for their poverty becomes somewhat moot. Yes we are all responsible for our own actions but we can only play within the parameters as set by the state. If those polices lend themselves to more people finding themselves homeless it can't all be put down to more careless or unconcerned people allowing themselves to fall into homelessness. It would require a completely enormous change in the psyche of the population to explain it under that, IMO.

22-11-2019 7:42pm

chris525 wrote: »

Birth rate will plummet and migration will increase.

Why? Genuine question.

The average Irish family has usually been around 2-3 children. I know very few families with more children than that. Typically, people in 1st world nations, tend to have smaller families due to the high costs involved. We'd still have normal immigration from other countries which would add to the population along with the families that they would create.

And why would migration increase? I assume you mean people leaving? The people who want to have more than 2 children... Can't imagine it would be a significant number, but if it was it would easily be countered by a requirement to have a certain amount of savings allocated towards the raising of the extra children. It wouldn't be so bad for "middle class" and "upper class" families since they're the most able to support/provide for larger families anyway.

LoughNeagh2017 · 25-11-2019 12:58am

My 19 year old cousin had baby with 17yo and they will be treated as lords by the housing executive I would imagine. I find it shameful though, he had baby with unionist (her fathers family are in Orange Order) ending God knows how many years of Catholic history in that side of family. I don't speak to him anyway.

25-11-2019 6:55am

LoughNeagh2017 wrote: »

My 19 year old cousin had baby with 17yo and they will be treated as lords by the housing executive I would imagine. I find it shameful though, he had baby with unionist (her fathers family are in Orange Order) ending God knows how many years of Catholic history in that side of family. I don't speak to him anyway.

Thankfully, we're talking about the Republic and don't have to deal with this level of rubbish. Orange order, Republican, etc. I don't give a flying fcuk. If he's good to your cousin, and can provide for the family, then that's all that matters. I wish to God, people would leave this **** up in the North where it belongs.

Antares35 · 25-11-2019 2:52pm

salonfire wrote: »

Why are you bringing in the Government in a thread about the homeless having babies?

What do you expect the Government to do to prevent people getting pregnant while homeless?

They could stop incentivising it.

Significant increase' in babies born into homelessness

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