Irish Rail's Punctuality Stats

Jamie2k9 · 03-12-2018 12:19am #1

Significant decline on Intercity routes at Heuston and surprisingly improvements on DART/Commuter services during this low rail adhesion period and the new timetable.

DART punchallity since the new timetable has been 90% of above, the first time in 12 months such a figure was achieved.

More worryingly Dublin-Cork only managed a 66.8% OTP in October, a new record low I suspect and that's with 10 minute window + timetable padding so with typically 15 minutes to spare and they manage 66% where no lower than 90% is the target.

THey should face financial penalties for such an abysmal performance and questioned over what steps they will take to address low rail adhesion across the network and not just in Dublin because unlike before it hadn't a major impact over at Heuston until the last 2-3 years.

Full stats:
http://www.irishrail.ie/about-us/train-punctuality-reliability-performance#waterford

thomasj · 03-12-2018 12:27am

How is it possible that Maynooth had better punctuality figure than it did for reliability in the 3rd period

Jamie2k9 · 03-12-2018 12:28am

thomasj wrote: »

How is it possible that Maynooth had better punctuality figure than it did for reliability in the 3rd period

Reliability is the train running the full route and not been cancelled/terminated en route.

thomasj · 03-12-2018 12:30am

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Reliability is the train running the full route and not been cancelled/terminated en route.

Yeah but according to march figures

Period 03
Dates Feb 27 to Mar 26
Punctuality 96.1%
Reliability 93.31%

How could it have 96% punctuality when it only had 93% reliability ?

Edit : ah so you mean the train could have left but not finished the journey resulting in the crazy difference in the figures.

Cookie_Monster · 03-12-2018 1:00am

thomasj wrote: »

Yeah but according to march figures

Period 03
Dates Feb 27 to Mar 26
Punctuality 96.1%
Reliability 93.31%

How could it have 96% punctuality when it only had 93% reliability ?

Edit : ah so you mean the train could have left but not finished the journey resulting in the crazy difference in the figures.

I would assume it means of 100 trains, 93 of them actual ran. Of that 93, 96.1% were on time

TheQuietFella · 03-12-2018 8:34am

When people stop stepping out in front of a train I'm sure their times will improve!

theguzman · 03-12-2018 10:43pm

Any train from Heuston to Kerry or Cork always seems to be 10 minutes late.

Working class heroes · 03-12-2018 11:33pm

TheQuietFella wrote: »

When people stop stepping out in front of a train I'm sure their times will improve!

I find this post highly offensive.

JustJoe7240 · 03-12-2018 11:36pm

Working class heroes wrote: »

I find this post highly offensive.

It's a little insensitive, for sure. But he's not wrong, Tragic incidents have a detrimental effect on those statistics.

Working class heroes · 03-12-2018 11:43pm

JustJoe7240 wrote: »

It's a little insensitive, for sure. But he's not wrong, Tragic incidents have a detrimental effect on those statistics.

No, it’s highly offensive.
Tragic incidents have a negligible impact on those statistics.

theguzman · 03-12-2018 11:49pm

There have been several incidents this year where the entire days schedules was highly disrupted because of Suicide on the tracks. It is an ongoing problem which greatly inconveniences the travelling public and must wreak trauma on the Drivers involved. It is not offensive to criticise those who choose to end their lives on the Railway.

Jamie2k9 · 04-12-2018 12:01am

These incidents have a minimal impact on performance, likely 0.5%-1% at most.

OTP at Heuston has been on a continual decline and nothing is been down about it. Continued refusal to address timetable issues is part of the problem. All the changes made since 2013 are just a sticking plaster.

TheQuietFella · 04-12-2018 1:03am

Working class heroes wrote: »

No, it’s highly offensive.
Tragic incidents have a negligible impact on those statistics.

And you I suppose compile the statistics for Irish Rail?

Working class heroes · 04-12-2018 8:16am

theguzman wrote: »

There have been several incidents this year where the entire days schedules was highly disrupted because of Suicide on the tracks. It is an ongoing problem which greatly inconveniences the travelling public and must wreak trauma on the Drivers involved. It is not offensive to criticise those who choose to end their lives on the Railway.

Yes it is.

Working class heroes · 04-12-2018 8:20am

TheQuietFella wrote: »

And you I suppose compile the statistics for Irish Rail?

Well you can take my word for it, or not. Don’t really care one way or another.
That ok with you?

Jem72 · 04-12-2018 9:39am

A lot of the statistics are framed in such a way that makes life a lot easier for Irish Rail. When they only refer to arrival time at the end of the journey, it's always possible to pad timetables to make it look better. On Sligo, a significant majority of passengers are going no further than Longford. Yet it is a fairly rare event to have an evening down train make it to Longford less than 10 minutes late.

The other area where the stats flatter Irish Rail is where you have a situation with 80% on-time performance of trains, you could quite easily have only 60% of passengers on-time since it is invariably the busier trains that get delayed. This is how we get to see an amazing 90% on-time for DART during October yet there endemic delays at rush hour with many passengers having to let 2 or 3 trains pass before they got on. Does anybody honestly believe that 90% of DART passengers were less than 5 minutes late in October.

You can make statistics tell whatever story you want.

Working class heroes · 04-12-2018 9:45am

Jem72 wrote: »

A lot of the statistics are framed in such a way that makes life a lot easier for Irish Rail. When they only refer to arrival time at the end of the journey, it's always possible to pad timetables to make it look better. On Sligo, a significant majority of passengers are going no further than Longford. Yet it is a fairly rare event to have an evening down train make it to Longford less than 10 minutes late.

The other area where the stats flatter Irish Rail is where you have a situation with 80% on-time performance of trains, you could quite easily have only 60% of passengers on-time since it is invariably the busier trains that get delayed. This is how we get to see an amazing 90% on-time for DART during October yet there endemic delays at rush hour with many passengers having to let 2 or 3 trains pass before they got on. Does anybody honestly believe that 90% of DART passengers were less than 5 minutes late in October.

You can make statistics tell whatever story you want.

Spot on. Since the last timetable change my train has been on time only once, yes, just once. The punctuality for the lie is 90+%.
Go figure.

Ray Bloody Purchase · 04-12-2018 1:28pm

Do Irish Rail get any penalties from the NTA over lateness?

TheQuietFella · 04-12-2018 2:29pm

Ray Bloody Purchase wrote: »

Do Irish Rail get any penalties from the NTA over lateness?

Would you expect a train to pull away if it was still loading passengers?

A few minutes here and there is hardly going to change your world!
Get an earlier train if it makes that much of a difference!

Working class heroes · 04-12-2018 2:31pm

Ray Bloody Purchase wrote: »

Do Irish Rail get any penalties from the NTA over lateness?

Yes they do.
Not sure of the exact details.

Seth Brundle · 04-12-2018 2:34pm

TheQuietFella wrote: »

Would you expect a train to pull away if it was still loading passengers?

A few minutes here and there is hardly going to change your world!
Get an earlier train if it makes that much of a difference!

Would it not be simpler for IR to make a timetable that they knew they could keep to?

Working class heroes · 04-12-2018 2:40pm

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Would it not be simpler for IR to make a timetable that they knew they could keep to?

Timetables seem to be aspirational not factual:pac::pac:

TheQuietFella · 04-12-2018 2:42pm

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Would it not be simpler for IR to make a timetable that they knew they could keep to?

Of course but this is the public you are dealing with in boarding trains.
It's not London where there is probably a train every 20 min or less.
Here we might have greater gaps between train departures so the
emphasis is on getting those people on board to a cost of a few minutes?

TheQuietFella · 04-12-2018 2:43pm

Working class heroes wrote: »

Timetables seem to be aspirational not factual:pac::pac:

It's the Irish way of doing things!

Jamie2k9 · 04-12-2018 3:49pm

The new Director of Operations will demand a new schedule is prepared if they are in anyway serious about the role they intend to take.

Some schedules are no way realistic and they refuse to listen to feedback pointing our errors and spend a few weeks trying to make it work and might eventually bow to pressure and change.

Jem72 · 04-12-2018 3:57pm

TheQuietFella wrote: »

A few minutes here and there is hardly going to change your world!

This is true for the occasional user - since I gave up daily commuting, I'm rarely all that stressed about a 10 or 20 minute delay. The problem is when your train is 10 minutes late every single day. When I was commuting my usual delays ended up about 15 minutes per day - 5 in the morning and 10 in the evening with an hour long delay once a month or so.

That totalled up to most of a day's work every month which is far from insignificant. The other major issue was that when I started commuting 15 years ago, the evening train leaving at 6 used to take and hour and 20 minutes to get from Connolly to Edgeworthstown. Nowadays the evening trains are all scheduled at about an hour and 40 minutes and they are usually 10 minutes delayed on top of it. This is more than enough to put a marginally workable commute over the threshold into something that just can't be managed.

04-12-2018 9:12pm

TheQuietFella wrote: »

Would you expect a train to pull away if it was still loading passengers?

A few minutes here and there is hardly going to change your world!
Get an earlier train if it makes that much of a difference!

The Japanese, Germans, Swiss etc can all manage it and that's with millions of passengers daily

TheQuietFella · 05-12-2018 12:51am

Deleted User wrote: »

The Japanese, Germans, Swiss etc can all manage it and that's with millions of passengers daily

A total different mentality in those countries to be fair!

Seth Brundle · 05-12-2018 12:41pm

TheQuietFella wrote: »

A total different mentality in those countries to be fair!

So trains here are frequently late because of a mentality?

Ray Bloody Purchase · 05-12-2018 12:58pm

TheQuietFella wrote: »

Would you expect a train to pull away if it was still loading passengers?

A few minutes here and there is hardly going to change your world!
Get an earlier train if it makes that much of a difference!

Ehhh, what? I was asking if they got penalties.

GM228 · 05-12-2018 1:21pm

Ray Bloody Purchase wrote: »

Do Irish Rail get any penalties from the NTA over lateness?

Depends, there are performance based payments as part of the PSO compensation, however they only require minimum standards to be met, for example DART and Commuter requires between 87% and 92% punctuality depending on time of day, Intercity requires 90%. 99% of all trains (nationally) should run and 98% of kilometres should be covered.

Anything affecting the minimums caused by or related to force majour is not held against IE and so delays caused by suicide, bridge strike, abnormal weather, infrastructure damage etc does not incure a penalty to them.

05-12-2018 1:36pm

TheQuietFella wrote: »

A total different mentality in those countries to be fair!

True, those companies have a mentality where they aim to serve the customers first with an effective, efficient and reliable service

Totally different to here

TheQuietFella · 05-12-2018 1:39pm

Deleted User wrote: »

True, those companies have a mentality where they aim to serve the customers first with an effective, efficient and reliable service

Totally different to here

And that is completely what I meant! :rolleyes:

05-12-2018 1:42pm

TheQuietFella wrote: »

And that is completely what I meant! :rolleyes:

Say what you mean, mean what you say

Working class heroes · 05-12-2018 2:01pm

GM228 wrote: »

Depends, there are performance based payments as part of the PSO compensation, however they only require minimum standards to be met, for example DART and Commuter requires between 87% and 92% punctuality depending on time of day, Intercity requires 90%. 99% of all trains (nationally) should run and 98% of kilometres should be covered.

Anything affecting the minimums caused by or related to force majour is not held against IE and so delays caused by suicide, bridge strike, abnormal weather, infrastructure damage etc does not incure a penalty to them.

Would cancelled services for "operational issues" incur a penalty?

end of the road · 05-12-2018 2:11pm

Deleted User wrote: »

True, those companies have a mentality where they aim to serve the customers first with an effective, efficient and reliable service

Totally different to here

i'd bet they also don't have a problem with compo types.

Working class heroes · 05-12-2018 2:31pm

end of the road wrote: »

i'd bet they also don't have a problem with compo types.

Can you back up that statement or is it just a guess?

Hilly Bill · 05-12-2018 3:18pm

Deleted User wrote: »

True, those companies have a mentality where they aim to serve the customers first with an effective, efficient and reliable service

Totally different to here

It's the same here the aim is the same but it doesn't always work how they want it to.

end of the road · 05-12-2018 3:31pm

Working class heroes wrote: »

Can you back up that statement or is it just a guess?

it's a guess.

Working class heroes · 05-12-2018 3:34pm

end of the road wrote: »

it's a guess.

Thought as much.

lawred2 · 05-12-2018 7:05pm

Sitting in clongriffin layby on the north bound dart waiting for the third train to pass by..

Ten minutes and counting

Bullsh!t service

I bet that that 10% of darts not 'on time' are nearly all peak services.

The rest of them are off peak and half empty

BlackandGreen · 05-12-2018 7:10pm

I got the intercity service from waterford to dublin recently and was shocked at how punctual it was.
The train was full and thriving, and it rolled into heuston only 2 minutes late.

Last time I was on the train (10 years ago) they were never on time and I avoided them for years because of it.
I guess the signalling has been upgraded or something but I'm so much more open to taking the train from now on.

Twas cheap too!

GM228 · 05-12-2018 8:24pm

Working class heroes wrote: »

Would cancelled services for "operational issues" incur a penalty?

It depends on the actual reason and only once 1% of the entire scheduled service (over each 4 week period) has been cancelled would there be an under payment.

road_high · 06-12-2018 12:59am

BlackandGreen wrote: »

I got the intercity service from waterford to dublin recently and was shocked at how punctual it was.
The train was full and thriving, and it rolled into heuston only 2 minutes late.

Last time I was on the train (10 years ago) they were never on time and I avoided them for years because of it.
I guess the signalling has been upgraded or something but I'm so much more open to taking the train from now on.

Twas cheap too!

The Waterford Dublin service is actually pretty decent to be fair. It’s come a long way in terms of frequency and timings too. Just over two hours so beats the motorway buses and is more reliable time wise. The Kildare route project must have had an effect.
Needs a later evening service though.

Jamie2k9 · 06-12-2018 1:24am

Waterford is a good service and if you think its good now, it was better 18-24 months ago. Arriving ahead of schedule was the norm, now its on time or usually delayed.

97/98% OTP was the norm, now it's like 93% and that doesn't include probally 90% of delays which are around 8-10 minutes.

One particularly train I regularly got before the September timetable change arrived up to 7-8 minutes almost every single day yet since the timetable change they felt they needed to add an extra minute to the schedule and ever single week since its been up to 5 minutes late. 1 minute change has cost over 10 minutes week in week out.

There was no need to adjust the schedule, in fact any adjustment should have been a reduction.

Jamie2k9 · 06-12-2018 1:27am

GM228 wrote: »

It depends on the actual reason and only once 1% of the entire scheduled service (over each 4 week period) has been cancelled would there be an under payment.

So what you are saying IE can allow mass cancellations and get away scot free. Have they lost PSO on strike days or have the NTA spun that line to the media as well?

GM228 · 06-12-2018 10:35am

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

So what you are saying IE can allow mass cancellations and get away scot free. Have they lost PSO on strike days or have the NTA spun that line to the media as well?

Once it is no more than 1% then yes.

Yes it is true they are deducted payment when there is a strike/industrial action involving their own staff, if they are affected by striking staff of a third party they do not get penalised, so for example if a maintenance contractor was on strike and caused cancellation they are not penalised, from the PSO contract:-

In this clause "Force Majeure" means the occurance after the date of this Contract of any of the following:.....strikes, lock-outs or other industrial disputes (in the case of strikes, lock-outs or other industrial disputes not confined to employees of the Operator or Córas Iompair Éireann or its subsidiaries) to the extent that such event has materially affected the ability of the Affected Party to perform its obligations in accordance with the terms of this Contract but excluding any such event insofar as it arises from or is attributable to the willful act, omission or negligence of the Affected Party or the failure on the part of the Affected Party to take reasonable precautions to prevent such event of Force Majeure or its impact

lawred2 · 09-01-2019 7:04pm

Dublin's rubbish transport strikes again

Delays all over the show and DARTS so overcrowded you can't even get on..

Taxes and annual tickets and parking costs all going to great use

TheQuietFella · 09-01-2019 9:11pm

lawred2 wrote: »

Dublin's rubbish transport strikes again

Delays all over the show and DARTS so overcrowded you can't even get on..

Taxes and annual tickets and parking costs all going to great use

To be fair Dublin transport is fine! A Luas broke down this morning and unfortunately these things DO happen!
Unfortunately public transport and particularly the train network both domestically and nationally has been
the poor recipient of funding for decades. How many new stations or lines have been laid since the British left?
More taken up than been put down!

lawred2 · 09-01-2019 9:22pm

TheQuietFella wrote: »

To be fair Dublin transport is fine! A Luas broke down this morning and unfortunately these things DO happen!
Unfortunately public transport and particularly the train network both domestically and nationally has been
the poor recipient of funding for decades. How many new stations or lines have been laid since the British left?
More taken up than been put down!

It's not fine. It's overworked, badly funded and poor value for money.

The Luas has nothing to do with CIE. Not sure why you referenced it.

Rashers72 · 09-01-2019 9:35pm

Most issues with the Dublin suburban network are caused by the relentless attempt to impose 10 min Dart timetable since Sept on an infrastructure completely starved of investment. All the issues with Northern Suburban line southbound in the morning could have been significantly minimised if IE had applied for funding from NTA and built southbound passing loop at Clongriffin. I honestly have no idea why they did not. It would have been a very small investment for a big operational return and had great customer benefit. The evening peak on the other hand is both 10 min Darts and poor operational management. Example. One slight delay tonight and 1,000's of customers impacted. No one seemed in charge operationally and lots of customers needlessly delayed.

Irish Rail's Punctuality Stats

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