Face covering exemption question

Psychiatric Patrick · 04-09-2020 10:52am

Neyite wrote: »

Schools barely have the resources for essential supplies, and can only manage to function because of the voluntary contribution from parents and fund-raising by the school or parents themselves.

Where's the money for these mythical desk screens to come from? The Dept of Education? pfft.

This school had the desk prepared. It is an issue the location of the desk.

fits · 04-09-2020 11:00am

Neyite wrote: »

Schools barely have the resources for essential supplies, and can only manage to function because of the voluntary contribution from parents and fund-raising by the school or parents themselves.

Where's the money for these mythical desk screens to come from? The Dept of Education? pfft.

Actually they did get funding for adaptation works. My sons preschool didn’t get the funding as they are under HSE. ( they put hand washing sinks in each room)

Neyite · 04-09-2020 11:13am

Psychiatric Patrick wrote: »

This school had the desk prepared. It is an issue the location of the desk.

So they likely had this desk prepared for any students that are unable to wear masks in order to keep them protected.

Her son has a severe respiratory issue. This puts him in the high risk category. Additionally due to his autism he's unable to wear a mask. The school were also protecting him by socially distancing him and putting screens between him and everyone else.

But this wasn't acceptable to the OP, so what they need to do is arm themselves with the schools covid policy and make an appointment to speak to the principal. If no compromise can be found that protects both the OP's child and everyone else in the class, then the OP can withdraw the child and homeschool.

Psychiatric Patrick · 04-09-2020 12:39pm

Neyite wrote: »

So they likely had this desk prepared for any students that are unable to wear masks in order to keep them protected.

Her son has a severe respiratory issue. This puts him in the high risk category. Additionally due to his autism he's unable to wear a mask. The school were also protecting him by socially distancing him and putting screens between him and everyone else.

But this wasn't acceptable to the OP, so what they need to do is arm themselves with the schools covid policy and make an appointment to speak to the principal. If no compromise can be found that protects both the OP's child and everyone else in the class, then the OP can withdraw the child and homeschool.

As I understand it the desk wasn't just prepared in case needed, it was prepared for this student specifically.

Yes, all the students need to be protected.

I just don't understand why the desk cannot just be in the back row.

And I don't understand how the OP didn't engage more with the principal before school started.

Princess Calla · 04-09-2020 12:47pm

Psychiatric Patrick wrote: »

As I understand it the desk wasn't just prepared in case needed, it was prepared for this student specifically.

Yes, all the students need to be protected.

I just don't understand why the desk cannot just be in the back row.

And I don't understand how the OP didn't engage more with the principal before school started.

The way I read it was the perspex is up around the teachers desk to protect the teacher I presume and the child needed to sit up with the teacher.... I remember seeing a clip on the news and some classrooms were kitted out this way.

Yes that's abit daunting but hardly bullying or discrimination.

Sam Quentin · 04-09-2020 12:55pm

Mustafa Lemon Weeknight wrote: »

Exactly, it makes no sense. If kids were told to wear a leash and collar to school to prevent spread of this unremarkable virus, would parents just go along with what they were told because that's the popular opinion on twitter?

Dear GAWWWWWWD..

Psychiatric Patrick · 04-09-2020 1:06pm

Princess Calla wrote: »

The way I read it was the perspex is up around the teachers desk to protect the teacher I presume and the child needed to sit up with the teacher.... I remember seeing a clip on the news and some classrooms were kitted out this way.

Yes that's abit daunting but hardly bullying or discrimination.

I had assumed the student's desk and the teacher's desk had separate screens - deferring the purpose if they both behind the same screen. However I re-read the first post and could be as you say. Very lacking in detail.

Yes I agree it is not bullying or discrimination (said so earlier too) but it is more that the teachers and principal didn't take into account that any child or teen would be mortified. And honestly the parent is equally to blame for that happening

Psychiatric Patrick · 04-09-2020 2:28pm

jrosen wrote: »

Sounds like you made up a medical reason and got your GP on board to sign the medical cert all because you dont agree with masks.

Who is that post directed at?

TherapyBoy · 04-09-2020 2:29pm

Psychiatric Patrick wrote: »

Who is that post directed at?

The OP I’d imagine Patrick.

jrosen · 04-09-2020 2:29pm

Psychiatric Patrick wrote: »

Who is that post directed at?

Ive actually deleted my post as I got posters mixed up.

Psychiatric Patrick · 04-09-2020 2:36pm

TherapyBoy wrote: »

The OP I’d imagine Patrick.

You imagined wrong I think

Psychiatric Patrick · 04-09-2020 2:36pm

jrosen wrote: »

Ive actually deleted my post as I got posters mixed up.

Still there :pac:

TherapyBoy · 04-09-2020 2:37pm

Psychiatric Patrick wrote: »

You imagined wrong I think

Yup! We’re all mixed up.

jrosen · 04-09-2020 2:48pm

Psychiatric Patrick wrote: »

Still there :pac:

Thanks lol

byhookorbycrook · 08-09-2020 9:30pm

fits wrote: »

Actually they did get funding for adaptation works. My sons preschool didn’t get the funding as they are under HSE. ( they put hand washing sinks in each room)

The funding was very miserly and wouldn't cover perspex screens for individuals.

todolist · 13-09-2020 3:21pm

The school called me in for a meeting.They can't accommodate a child who can't wear a face covering.There is nobody at home to allow home schooling.

Princess Calla · 13-09-2020 5:44pm

todolist wrote: »

The school called me in for a meeting.They can't accommodate a child who can't wear a face covering.There is nobody at home to allow home schooling.

Can you organise a home tutor/childminder?

calfmuscle · 13-09-2020 7:03pm

todolist wrote: »

The school called me in for a meeting.They can't accommodate a child who can't wear a face covering.There is nobody at home to allow home schooling.

Remind them they cannot discriminate against your son.

todolist · 14-09-2020 12:35am

Princess Calla wrote: »

Can you organise a home tutor/childminder?

No

todolist · 14-09-2020 12:38am

calfmuscle wrote: »

Remind them they cannot discriminate against your son.

Apparently they can discriminate and there is nothing I can do.

calfmuscle · 14-09-2020 6:53am

todolist wrote: »

Apparently they can discriminate and there is nothing I can do.

Id ring the IHRAEC for advice. That's appalling.

joeguevara · 14-09-2020 6:59am

I was chatting to my cousin who is a teacher in a school for children with special needs. 4-18 mild and moderate. Very surprised that all kids are wearing masks.

Firstly is there an alternative I.e visors.

Every child is entitled to an education up to 18. Constitution and synott case.

Therefore arrange a multi disciplinary meeting and see what alternatives are available. They can’t simply refuse to educate but they do have a responsibility to all. But if your child is not able to wear a mask, they must be facilitated by some other means. Make sure you are amenable but forthright. Ask to see education plan specific and tailored to your child.

Smee_Again · 14-09-2020 8:37am

joeguevara wrote: »

I was chatting to my cousin who is a teacher in a school for children with special needs. 4-18 mild and moderate. Very surprised that all kids are wearing masks.

Firstly is there an alternative I.e visors.

Every child is entitled to an education up to 18. Constitution and synott case.

Therefore arrange a multi disciplinary meeting and see what alternatives are available. They can’t simply refuse to educate but they do have a responsibility to all. But if your child is not able to wear a mask, they must be facilitated by some other means. Make sure you are amenable but forthright. Ask to see education plan specific and tailored to your child.

The school has facilitated by some other means, but the parent is still claiming discrimination without actually putting forward their own alternative.

calfmuscle · 14-09-2020 10:27am

Smee_Again wrote: »

The school has facilitated by some other means, but the school is still discriminating without actually putting forward their own alternative.

Fixed your post

Cakerbaker · 14-09-2020 10:40am

It might be worth contacting the Ombudsman for Children’s Office to see if they could give any guidance or advice?

Smee_Again · 14-09-2020 10:44am

calfmuscle wrote: »

Fixed your post

What you've "fixed" it to doesn't make sense, the school can't simultaneously have facilitated the child by other means and also not put forward their own alternative.

Neyite · 14-09-2020 3:45pm

joeguevara wrote: »

I was chatting to my cousin who is a teacher in a school for children with special needs. 4-18 mild and moderate. Very surprised that all kids are wearing masks.

Firstly is there an alternative I.e visors.

Every child is entitled to an education up to 18. Constitution and synott case.

Therefore arrange a multi disciplinary meeting and see what alternatives are available. They can’t simply refuse to educate but they do have a responsibility to all. But if your child is not able to wear a mask, they must be facilitated by some other means. Make sure you are amenable but forthright. Ask to see education plan specific and tailored to your child.

The OP's child was facilitated by the school. They socially distanced the student behind a screen for his protection and the protection of the other children and continued to educate him as they are legally obliged to do. It was the OP was was unhappy with that arrangement so they've basically said, if you don't have a solution then feel free to homeschool.
It's hard to argue with that to be honest.

joeguevara · 14-09-2020 3:46pm

Neyite wrote: »

The OP's child was facilitated by the school. They socially distanced the student behind a screen for his protection and the protection of the other children and continued to educate him as they are legally obliged to do. It was the OP was was unhappy with that arrangement so they've basically said, if you don't have a solution then feel free to homeschool.
It's hard to argue with that to be honest.

100% agree.

todolist · 14-09-2020 10:35pm

Thanks for all the contributions. The school can not accommodate a pupil who has an exemption from face coverings.My son wont be back to school until the face covering directive is over.

greasepalm · 14-09-2020 11:01pm

Cafe i was in this morning has a new sign saying wear protection or no service and i can see things getting worse.

fits · 15-09-2020 10:27am

todolist wrote: »

Thanks for all the contributions. The school can not accommodate a pupil who has an exemption from face coverings.My son wont be back to school until the face covering directive is over.

Are you going to take further action? Did they offer any solutions or ideas?

joeguevara · 15-09-2020 10:41am

todolist wrote: »

Thanks for all the contributions. The school can not accommodate a pupil who has an exemption from face coverings.My son wont be back to school until the face covering directive is over.

As I said previously, equality law specifically requires extra assistance or arrangements to be provided to ensure access or provision of services. It is up to both parent and school to work together on something like this. Separation from direct contact with classmates but not secluded seems reasonable. Perhaps with some alternative to a mask such as visor would bring the risk down to an acceptable situation. Just to point out, if you exclude your child from attending school, there are legal ramifications for this.

joeguevara · 15-09-2020 10:42am

greasepalm wrote: »

Cafe i was in this morning has a new sign saying wear protection or no service and i can see things getting worse.

What do you mean you can see things getting worse? Dont wear a mask no coffee. Wear a mask get coffee.

15-09-2020 11:04am

If you have exemption, should you be able to show proof? Like in the Lidl, I can walk in and say I have exempt..should I not have to prove it?

Gatling · 15-09-2020 11:11am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If you have exemption, should you be able to show proof? Like in the Lidl, I can walk in and say I have exempt..should I not have to prove it?

Unfortunately they made a mess of it , people can self exampt by claiming they have one of the conditions listed for exemption and apparently cannot be challenged to provide any evidence to prove your exempt from wearing a mask .
There has been an increase in people contacting gps asking for letters to say that they have an medical exemption but not to disclose the exemption is in the letter.

Which makes the whole exemption clause a waste of time and effort

kenmm · 15-09-2020 12:41pm

greasepalm wrote: »

Cafe i was in this morning has a new sign saying wear protection or no service and i can see things getting worse.

The difficulty is there for the few (very few) who are unable to wear a mask. People will make a judgement and it makes it tough for those people.

For those who simply don't want to wear one or finding it a little inconvenient or a bit uncomfortable - these are the people you are really screwing over. Not only are they likely at a higher risk of suffering if they do get covid, but more likely to be met with judgement if a large number of 'chancers' (for want of a better word) keep pushing the boundaries.

This is not a reflection on the OP's situation or the main topic of the thread.

greasepalm · 15-09-2020 4:20pm

joeguevara wrote: »

What do you mean you can see things getting worse? Dont wear a mask no coffee. Wear a mask get coffee.

More and more places will be covering themselves with the figures rising daily and saying their trying to keep everyone safe,i have no issues in that aspect.

Cabaal · 16-09-2020 9:12am

todolist wrote: »

Thanks for all the contributions. The school can not accommodate a pupil who has an exemption from face coverings.My son wont be back to school until the face covering directive is over.

But they did accommodate by using a screen, this enabled them to continue to educate whilst still protecting other students.

The school has a duty of care to protect all students and have made a reasonable adjustment to enable that to occur.

I get you are unhappy with the adjustment they made but you have to also think of other students and rather then being critical of the school why don't you propose a solution that also ensures other students are kept safe?

patnor1011 · 16-09-2020 10:23am

granturismo wrote: »

Face coverings are medical opinion. A virus with a worldwide death rate of 800K is not unremarkable.

Considering the simple fact that about 35,000K people died worldwide in the same timeframe it is not that scary number. Not even special.

patnor1011 · 16-09-2020 10:25am

joeguevara wrote: »

What do you mean you can see things getting worse? Dont wear a mask no coffee. Wear a mask get coffee.

The most comical thing on this whole thing is that if you want to have that coffee you must put your mask off anyway.

joeguevara · 16-09-2020 6:29pm

patnor1011 wrote: »

The most comical thing on this whole thing is that if you want to have that coffee you must put your mask off anyway.

How is that comical?Hardly going to eat or drink with a mask on. Most people would be getting takeaway. Wear a mask while ordering in front of someone’s face. If staying in then social distance away from everyone else.

patnor1011 · 17-09-2020 9:19am

joeguevara wrote: »

How is that comical?Hardly going to eat or drink with a mask on. Most people would be getting takeaway. Wear a mask while ordering in front of someone’s face. If staying in then social distance away from everyone else.

You can not come in without your mask on only to have to put it away as soon as you get your coffee. Pretty comical.
Have a blast and watch people in establishments offering substantial meals in solid and liquid form. I have a hard time to actually find a few who sit with their mask on all the time and take it down for just a second to have a sip.

Parabellum9 · 17-09-2020 10:49am

patnor1011 wrote: »

You can not come in without your mask on only to have to put it away as soon as you get your coffee. Pretty comical.
Have a blast and watch people in establishments offering substantial meals in solid and liquid form. I have a hard time to actually find a few who sit with their mask on all the time and take it down for just a second to have a sip.

I'm struggling to see what you find so comical apart from your own misunderstanding of how it works.

Restaurant - Wear mask when you enter, wait to be seated, then take your mask off.

Cafe - Wear mask when you enter, wait to be seated, then take your mask off.

Workplaces - Wear mask when you enter and are moving around the building, take it off when at your own desk.

I'm 100% behind places going "no mask no service" as well, there are too many scumbags wandering through shops and shopping centres without one on and without a care in the world. Such a provisio would put an immediate stop to that.

joeguevara · 17-09-2020 10:53am

patnor1011 wrote: »

You can not come in without your mask on only to have to put it away as soon as you get your coffee. Pretty comical.
Have a blast and watch people in establishments offering substantial meals in solid and liquid form. I have a hard time to actually find a few who sit with their mask on all the time and take it down for just a second to have a sip.

Either you are being obtuse on purpose or clearly don't understand the requirement or the reasons for them. No one ever stated that there is a requirement that the mask be worn at the table, this is why there is a social distance requirement between tables. Have no clue what a substantial meal in liquid form is. Are you one of these people who constantly says 'the virus is intelligent, it knows to stay away from someone who is eating a bowl of chips'?

patnor1011 · 18-09-2020 1:27am

Parabellum9 wrote: »

I'm struggling to see what you find so comical apart from your own misunderstanding of how it works.

Restaurant - Wear mask when you enter, wait to be seated, then take your mask off.

Cafe - Wear mask when you enter, wait to be seated, then take your mask off.

Workplaces - Wear mask when you enter and are moving around the building, take it off when at your own desk.

I'm 100% behind places going "no mask no service" as well, there are too many scumbags wandering through shops and shopping centres without one on and without a care in the world. Such a provisio would put an immediate stop to that.

This is exactly what is comical on the whole situation. This inventing whole new mask etiquette oh how and when to use them. With things like this - regulations constantly changing to accomodate everyone whole thing become complete nonsense.
Oh and I am one of those scumbags you are referring to. I like to wear tracksuit when out and about it is nice to change from what I have to wear at work. I wander through shops and shopping centers "without one" and being dressed as I am I have to endure stares of people like you who think they occupy some high moral ground protecting vulnerable. With my medical condition I do not wear a mask and I try to limit my shopping precisely because of this scumbag branding.

patnor1011 · 18-09-2020 1:35am

joeguevara wrote: »

Either you are being obtuse on purpose or clearly don't understand the requirement or the reasons for them. No one ever stated that there is a requirement that the mask be worn at the table, this is why there is a social distance requirement between tables. Have no clue what a substantial meal in liquid form is. Are you one of these people who constantly says 'the virus is intelligent, it knows to stay away from someone who is eating a bowl of chips'?

I understand the requirement. It is that you can feel good for protecting me despite that I do not really need it or care. I know what I should do to be protected as much as I can.
It seems you do not understand how masks works. It is pointless excercise to have one on when entering only to take it out when sitting at your table and eating unless you happen to sit outside. Or do you think that if you blow on a spoon of hot soup that any virus from your lungs will not travel more than 2 meters which is "recommended social distance"?
The longer this go on and the more advices and recommendations come to effect the bigger of a mess it will create.

joeguevara · 18-09-2020 1:54am

patnor1011 wrote: »

I understand the requirement. It is that you can feel good for protecting me despite that I do not really need it or care. I know what I should do to be protected as much as I can.
It seems you do not understand how masks works. It is pointless excercise to have one on when entering only to take it out when sitting at your table and eating unless you happen to sit outside. Or do you think that if you blow on a spoon of hot soup that any virus from your lungs will not travel more than 2 meters which is "recommended social distance"?
The longer this go on and the more advices and recommendations come to effect the bigger of a mess it will create.

You are correct. Honestly the no mask requirement for when you are sitting at a table is bizarre. Been out for breakfast twice in the Filipina owned cafe in Dun Laoghaire. Sat once outside and the other time on the table near the door by itself. Wouldn’t feel comfortable in the tables down the back. I’m vigilant with mask wearing and don’t really care what others are doing anymore. I quickly found that worrying about what others do is worse than what they do.

But when coming in to the likes of a coffee shop or takeaway and ordering to go, wearing a mask rocks.

patnor1011 · 18-09-2020 2:50am

joeguevara wrote: »

You are correct. Honestly the no mask requirement for when you are sitting at a table is bizarre. Been out for breakfast twice in the Filipina owned cafe in Dun Laoghaire. Sat once outside and the other time on the table near the door by itself. Wouldn’t feel comfortable in the tables down the back. I’m vigilant with mask wearing and don’t really care what others are doing anymore. I quickly found that worrying about what others do is worse than what they do.

But when coming in to the likes of a coffee shop or takeaway and ordering to go, wearing a mask rocks.

I must be different. To me wearing a mask is tragedy - Reading facial expressions is very important and what I am missing the most is the smile. To say that it is depressing is understatement and I try to limit my interactions with people as much as I can as I simply cant bear looking at masked people.

amdublin · 18-09-2020 5:37pm

patnor1011 wrote: »

I must be different. To me wearing a mask is tragedy - Reading facial expressions is very important and what I am missing the most is the smile. To say that it is depressing is understatement and I try to limit my interactions with people as much as I can as I simply cant bear looking at masked people.

Yep. Masks are sh1t. More sh1t would be catching covid I reckon though

patnor1011 · 18-09-2020 10:20pm

amdublin wrote: »

Yep. Masks are sh1t.

Never said that. Tragedy does not equal to sh1t.

amdublin wrote: »

More sh1t would be catching covid I reckon though

That really depends. Most likely yes for about 1 or 2 people out of a hundred. Some incovenience for another about 40 who may experience mild symptoms. About 25 will not get it due to simply being imune and about 35 will not even notice they have it.

Face covering exemption question

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