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Corbyn leadership in serious trouble as general warns of mutiny

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    #32
    NoCrackHaving
    Registered Users Posts: 535 ✭✭✭NoCrackHaving


    brevity wrote: »
    Whatever about his policies, the way the right wing press turned on Corbyn is disconcerting.

    Probably indicates that they're actually afraid of his policies appealing to voters.


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    #33
    brevity
    Registered Users Posts: 8,497 ✭✭✭brevity


    NoCrackHaving wrote: »
    Probably indicates that they're actually afraid of his policies appealing to voters.

    It was pathetic, "Chairman Mao bicycle" nonsense about his great-great grandfather. I'm not sure I'd vote for him if he was over here but you could nearly hear the machine clicking into gear to try and discredit him.

    Cameron's tweet was beyond dangerous as well-wouldnt look out of place in the daily mail.


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    #34
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    NoCrackHaving wrote: »
    In fact the last time I can think of a military coup in western Europe was during the revolt of the Greek colonels, a long, long time ago now. The chances of a military rising in the UK are so small as to not be worth talking about.

    Greece / Byzantium has historically been pretty much the definition of Eastern Europe.


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    #35
    karma_
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,798 ✭✭✭karma_


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Greece / Byzantium has historically been pretty much the definition of Eastern Europe.

    Greece has never been the definition of Eastern europe, it's a pretty unique case.

    Byzantium? Do you mean Constantinople?

    And you're surprised Corbyn has lasted a week? Really?


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    #36
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    karma_ wrote: »
    Greece has never been the definition of Eastern europe, it's a pretty unique case.

    Byzantium? Do you mean Constantinople?

    And you're surprised Corbyn has lasted a week? Really?
    Erm, it pretty much has. Ever since the split between the Eastern and Western Roman Empires. Throughout the medieval period Rome and Constantinople where the cultural hearts of Western and Eastern Europe respectively.

    A lot of what we define to be culturally "Eastern European" the Orthodox religion, the Cyrillic alphabet, Greek as the language of learning rather than Latin. Even the concept of an "Eastern Europe" as separate from the West originated with Greece.

    The concept of Greece as Western European, is pretty much a cold war phenomenon.


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    #37
    Lemming
    Registered Users Posts: 14,148 ✭✭✭✭Lemming


    demfad wrote: »
    That's not quite true. David Cameron immediately found it necessary to attack him by tweeting that the Labour party 'was a danger to National security and your family's security'. This is an outrageous comment for the PM of any state to make. Camerons role is to protect the security of his State. He demeans that role by using it to effect political advantage. People are so used to this that they can't spot Cameron's complete absence of integrity. If Corbyn survives long enough it will become more apparent.

    I stand corrected. Allow me to reitterate; "The Tories have had to do little to attack Corbyn".

    As for Cameron's tweet, if you want to go down that path, it can be argued that he is indeed looking after the security of the state. Given Corbyn's historical prejudices against both the British state, its armed forces, and his consistent siding with both groups with deeply questionable motives and the Russians it's entirely reasonable to view him with suspicion.


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    #38
    Berserker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,046 ✭✭✭Berserker


    brevity wrote: »
    Whatever about his policies, the way the right wing press turned on Corbyn is disconcerting.

    What right wing press? Most of the stories have come from the left of centre papers.


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    #39
    karma_
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,798 ✭✭✭karma_


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Erm, it pretty much has. Ever since the split between the Eastern and Western Roman Empires. Throughout the medieval period Rome and Constantinople where the cultural hearts of Western and Eastern Europe respectively.

    A lot of what we define to be culturally "Eastern European" the Orthodox religion, the Cyrillic alphabet, Greek as the language of learning rather than Latin. Even the concept of an "Eastern Europe" as separate from the West originated with Greece.

    The concept of Greece as Western European, is pretty much a cold war phenomenon.

    Not at all, Greece has at no time been identified as such. As I said, it's a unique case and has been included in the Western sphere by many, probably due to the absolutely huge impact the Greeks have influenced the West culturally.


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    #40
    FTA69
    Registered Users Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    NoCrackHaving wrote: »
    In fact the last time I can think of a military coup in western Europe was during the revolt of the Greek colonels, a long, long time ago now. The chances of a military rising in the UK are so small as to not be worth talking about.

    Portugal.


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    #41
    BoatMad
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    and attempted in Spain


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    #42
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    karma_ wrote: »
    Not at all, Greece has at no time been identified as such. As I said, it's a unique case and has been included in the Western sphere by many, probably due to the absolutely huge impact the Greeks have influenced the West culturally.
    Greece has viewed itself as the successor of the Byzantium / Eastern Roman empire, using many of their symbols.

    Even if they didn't Byzantium was Greek in all but name.


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    #43
    StonyIron
    Closed Accounts Posts: 409 ✭✭StonyIron


    NoCrackHaving wrote: »
    In fact the last time I can think of a military coup in western Europe was during the revolt of the Greek colonels, a long, long time ago now. The chances of a military rising in the UK are so small as to not be worth talking about.

    Spain had an attempted coup in 1981.


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    #44
    NoCrackHaving
    Registered Users Posts: 535 ✭✭✭NoCrackHaving


    StonyIron wrote: »
    Spain had an attempted coup in 1981.

    Forgot about that actually.


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    #45
    NoCrackHaving
    Registered Users Posts: 535 ✭✭✭NoCrackHaving


    karma_ wrote: »
    Not at all, Greece has at no time been identified as such. As I said, it's a unique case and has been included in the Western sphere by many, probably due to the absolutely huge impact the Greeks have influenced the West culturally.

    I'd agree when you say 'Eastern Europe' you generally think of Belarus, Slovakia, the Baltic states etc. A lot of people wouldn't consider the Balkans to even be Eastern Europe really.


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    #46
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    hmmm wrote: »
    Personally I think the biggest blow on Corbyn this week was the suggestion that he was a "puritan". After watching his behaviour over a number of weeks, there was something about his dour, excessively serious, criticise-everything, miserable attitude that I couldn't quite characterise - but "puritan" is a great description.

    At the moment, his merry band of 20 something supporters are praising him for bringing "seriousness" back to UK politics, but will they have the attention span to diligently watch PM's questions to find out what Mary from Brixton has to say about housing policy week after week? Doubtful.

    I expect the "puritan" tag to stick and increase in potency. Yes of course we expect our politicians to take their jobs seriously, but we also like them to be slightly imperfect humans we could have a pint with.

    That (and I'm being serious) is not the kind of criticism that seems to be in vogue at the moment. Anything short of 'Corbyn In Secret North Korean Deal' or 'He danced on Dianas Grave' will have a short shelf life.


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    #47
    zl1whqvjs75cdy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,042 ✭✭✭zl1whqvjs75cdy


    Its amazing after all the austerity and back bailouts and tax increases etc. that the left haven't managed to capitalize at all. Greece elects lefties, total disaster. The UK public don't even bother to elect them, and why would they when nut jobs like Corbyn have a say in how the party is run. Even here at home Labor have suffered heavily in the polls and look like losing a lot of seats next go around. (though you could argue that Labor here are just mildly left of center). Is left wing economics just not relevant in modern economies, where its increasingly a dog eat dog market?


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    #48
    BoatMad
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    Corbyn is an interim leader on a path to nowhere , virtually unelectable and labour is facing a wilderness as they have lost scotland and cannot get enough support in England and Wales to dislodge the Tories


    sad really


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    #49
    johnnyskeleton
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,478 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »
    Is left wing economics just not relevant in modern economies, where its increasingly a dog eat dog market?

    The most popular left wing bits have been introduced, such as workers rights, the welfare state and income redistribution. What's left to them are unppular policies such as extremely high rates of tax to pay for overly generous social welfare (some would say we are already at that point) or unrealistic claims that if we lower tax and increase spending the economy will magically fix itself.


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    #50
    BoatMad
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    johnnyskeleton wrote: »
    The most popular left wing bits have been introduced, such as workers rights, the welfare state and income redistribution. What's left to them are unppular policies such as extremely high rates of tax to pay for overly generous social welfare (some would say we are already at that point) or unrealistic claims that if we lower tax and increase spending the economy will magically fix itself.

    what it shows repeatedly, that in the privacy of the ballot box, enough people will choose self -interest ( lower personal taxes, costs etc ) over public altruism every time. They take for granted the social gains already won.

    the result is that left wing politicks has descended into a form of minority protest.


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    #51
    Elmer Blooker
    Registered Users Posts: 6,047 ✭✭✭Elmer Blooker


    NoCrackHaving wrote: »
    In fact the last time I can think of a military coup in western Europe was during the revolt of the Greek colonels, a long, long time ago now. The chances of a military rising in the UK are so small as to not be worth talking about.
    Think again. You should read up on the "resignation" of Harold Wilson in the 1970s.
    Not in western Europe but have you ever heard of Gough Whitlam, Australian PM who also "resigned".


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    #52
    donaghs
    Registered Users Posts: 2,693 ✭✭✭donaghs


    I don't mind Corbyn from what I know, but a lot of his party would understand that if someone as Middle-of-the-road as Ed Miliband can be successfully depicted as a "Red Ed" bogeyman, there there's no chance of Corbyn being PM.

    But after reading about the Islington "children's homes" abuse scandal recently, I was wondering what Corbyn had/has to say about it all - since he's been an MP there since the early 80s, and the story was first (sort of) mentioned in parliament in the mid 80s, and broke in the news in the early 90s.

    Hard to find much comment from him on it. I know he wasn't directly responsible for the Council, but I still think he'd have some interest in it. BTW the Margaret Hodge, now Dame, was responsible in Islington Council at the time. She's a Labour MP now and was Minister for Children in Blairs government.


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    #53
    lochderg
    Registered Users Posts: 118 ✭✭lochderg


    josephryan1989 wrote: »
    You don't believe the general said what he said or that Corbyn faces a leadership challenge?

    The Tories are sitting back and eating their popcorn while Labour tears itself to pieces.

    It's quite sad that the UK has now no effective political opposition leader because this blithering idiot has been elected Labour leader.

    In the past few days he has shown himself to be staggeringly inept and naive.
    weren't you there when those stupid women wanted the vote-wasn't it you who shouted loudest about those 'adorable but ignorant creatures' giving us all a laugh about wanting to have a say?-what are they like?-women!-voting!--bah humbug stuff & nonsense


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    #54
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,412 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    lochderg wrote: »
    weren't you there when those stupid women wanted the vote-wasn't it you who shouted loudest about those 'adorable but ignorant creatures' giving us all a laugh about wanting to have a say?-what are they like?-women!-voting!--bah humbug stuff & nonsense

    This is adding nothing to the discussion. Please read out charter before posting again.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #55
    walshyn93
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,685 ✭✭✭walshyn93


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/agriculture/food/11887317/Treat-meat-eaters-like-smokers-warns-Jeremy-Corbyns-new-vegan-farming-minister-Kerry-McCarthy.html

    "Treat meat eaters like smokers" - Vegan shadow secretary of state for environment, food and rural affairs

    By appointing someone like this to a position in charge of rural affairs I think Corbyn shows appalling lack of judgement. He doesn't want to upset the establishment, I think he just wants to kick it in the balls and run away.


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    #56
    demfad
    Registered Users Posts: 3,182 ✭✭✭demfad


    walshyn93 wrote: »
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/agriculture/food/11887317/Treat-meat-eaters-like-smokers-warns-Jeremy-Corbyns-new-vegan-farming-minister-Kerry-McCarthy.html

    "Treat meat eaters like smokers" - Vegan shadow secretary of state for environment, food and rural affairs

    By appointing someone like this to a position in charge of rural affairs I think Corbyn shows appalling lack of judgement. He doesn't want to upset the establishment, I think he just wants to kick it in the balls and run away.

    You can produce roughly 4 times the amount of food in a field full of grain than the same field to feed cows can provide. It is stone cold logic that this is the way forward.

    You are suggesting that by holding a position they believe in, i.e a position of integrity, Corbyn and his shadow minister are showing lack of judgement.

    You are saying he/she should show more judgement by acting with less integrity.

    That is the position of the establishment for sure. You may be of the belief that this is an immutable fact of life. I would argue that this corruption needs be kicked on the balls as regularly as possible.


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    #57
    StonyIron
    Closed Accounts Posts: 409 ✭✭StonyIron


    They really need to find more of a Mo Mowlam (RIP) - intelligent, down to earth, extremely likeable and the polar opposite to Cameron and the old boys club and very highly electable.

    I don't think the UK is really in the humour for someone as far left and as starchy as Corbyn but I equally don't think they're really as far right as the Tories.

    Labour needs someone who's capable of bringing it back to a centre left, practical set of values and who can reconnect with the electorate.

    He isn't the person who's going to do that.

    I think much like Ireland, someone like Mo would really work. The problem is people like that are pretty rare in politics and I think New Labour drove a lot of them our due the war dodgy dossiers etc etc

    Blair caused really very serious damage with all of that stuff and has been largely responsible for creating this mistrust that now exists.

    Labour has a lot of bridge building to do.


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    #58
    walshyn93
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,685 ✭✭✭walshyn93


    demfad wrote: »
    You can produce roughly 4 times the amount of food in a field full of grain than the same field to feed cows can provide. It is stone cold logic that this is the way forward.

    You are suggesting that by holding a position they believe in, i.e a position of integrity, Corbyn and his shadow minister are showing lack of judgement.

    You are saying he/she should show more judgement by acting with less integrity.

    That is the position of the establishment for sure. You may be of the belief that this is an immutable fact of life. I would argue that this corruption needs be kicked on the balls as regularly as possible.

    Do you want to live off grain? How is forcing people to eat like you showing integrity? There's no integrity in being a vegan control freak who wants to run other people's lives and punish them for eating meat. And he will run away crying if this is how he intends to go about running the country. Making the country live off grain is hardly going to convince people he's not dirty commie who hates Britain.


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    #59
    demfad
    Registered Users Posts: 3,182 ✭✭✭demfad


    walshyn93 wrote: »
    Do you want to live off grain? How is forcing people to eat like you showing integrity? There's no integrity in being a vegan control freak who wants to run other people's lives and punish them for eating meat. And he will run away crying if this is how he intends to go about running the country. Making the country live off grain is hardly going to convince people he's not dirty commie who hates Britain.

    You are correct. Anyone who doesnt believe in monarchy or imperialism must be anti-British.
    I guess we are all anti-Irish here given that we chose a different path?


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    #60
    KingBrian2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,363 ✭✭✭KingBrian2


    The press have too much of a role in deciding who is best for the British electorate. The 4th estate has spoken. :(


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    #61
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users Posts: 17,009 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    I remember reading the Chris Mullen book A Very British Coup and watching Ray McAnally in the Channel 4 adaption - similar themes to what is happening now


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