Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

EU directive on electrical goods?

Options
  • 06-04-2019 4:09pm
    #1
    OU812
    Registered Users Posts: 6,035 ✭✭✭


    Anyone be able to correct me or point me in the right direction.

    I recall hearing something about an eu directive on electrical items having a 6 year guarantee. Shops give you a year & the extra duration should be with the manufacturer.

    I have a built in washing machine which went out of 1 year guarantee at the start of March. Unfortunately now the machine seems to be caught in a loop when washing & never completes (the softener never gets released into the drum). I put on a two hour wash yesterday as a test & it was still going five hours later when I returned with no sign of finishing.

    I had to switch it to spin/drain & although it did spin out, it wasn't going at the correct speed and the clothes were still heavy wet.

    I believe the problem is with the PCB as the wash is happening, just not being controlled & therefore an electrical problem & not a mechanical one.

    Currys want me to pay €70 for an engineers report before they will entertain my complaint. I maintain they need to standover the product.

    Who's right?


Comments

  • Options
    #2
    theteal
    Registered Users Posts: 7,593 ✭✭✭theteal


    No such directive.

    You have up to 6 years for redress under Irish consumer rights legislation. The warranty on your washing machine means nothing, that’s an agreement between the retailer and the manufacturer, nothing to do with you, the consumer. Once the item is not damaged, you’re entitled to a repair, replacement or refund. I would be reminding the retailer of this and be ready to open a case for the small aims court should they deny you your rights.


  • Options
    #3
    OU812
    Registered Users Posts: 6,035 ✭✭✭OU812


    Thanks theteal.

    For clarification. I get a one year warranty, it fails just outside of this, am I still entitled to repair, replacement or refund & if so, can you point me to the respective legislation?

    Thanks in advance


  • Options
    #4
    ED E
    Registered Users Posts: 36,166 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    You missed his point somewhat. The warranty is a distraction. Its toilet paper. Forget it exists and tell any staff that try to mention it that you do not care about the warranty.
    The Sales of Goods and Supply of Services Act, 1980 supersedes the EU directive in Ireland. The act actually entitles the consumer to 6 years to bring a action against a the seller, however it doesn't mean that the goods have a 6 year warranty.


    This is currys. I've had this argument with them before. The whole Dixons Carphone group are like that. Expect to have to open a small claims court case (€25) to have them take you seriously. Store managers appear to be trained to pretend the sale of goods act does not exist.


  • Options
    #5
    byte
    Moderators, Regional North West Moderators Posts: 19,099 Mod ✭✭✭✭byte
    byte


    I'm open to correction for those more proficient on appliances acting up, but have you checked the pump filter?

    I say this as I think some machines won't work properly if water isn't pumping away fast enough, which you mention when you say it doesn't seem to spin properly. There could be something blocking flow to/from the pump causing the issues. No harm checking in any case.


  • Options
    #6
    Gooser14
    Registered Users Posts: 1,556 ✭✭✭Gooser14


    Try switching its power supply off for a few minutes. This might clear the fault.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    OU812 wrote: »
    Thanks theteal.

    For clarification. I get a one year warranty, it fails just outside of this, am I still entitled to repair, replacement or refund & if so, can you point me to the respective legislation?

    Thanks in advance

    The Sale of Goods and Services Act 1980

    https://thecai.ie/your-rights/your-rights/know-your-rights/

    Ignore your warranty.


  • Options
    #8
    OU812
    Registered Users Posts: 6,035 ✭✭✭OU812


    Did a google followed by a couple of YouTube videos.

    As it turns out it was a fault with the pump filter.

    Was able to remove & dismantle the filter and take out a sock, an ice pop stick, three euro (score!), a hair clip and two hair elastics.
    #livingwithgirlproblems

    Saved myself a load of hassle & €70 callout fee for a couple of hours work.

    Sorted ðŸ˜


  • Options
    #9
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,845 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    That wouldn't been covered by consumer rights as it happens


  • Options
    #10
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    Directive (regulations at this point) here:

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2003/si/11/made/en/print

    Good discussion on it here:

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057956739


  • Options
    #11
    dudara
    Registered Users Posts: 33,519 ✭✭✭✭dudara


    Glad to hear you got it sorted. And a good thing too because as L1011 mentioned, this was a user-induced Issue, and wouldn’t have fallen under your consumer rights.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #12
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,312 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Directives aren’t law. They are directives that the eu give to countries who should but not necessarily do write into law


  • Options
    #13
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,908 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    ted1 wrote: »
    Directives aren’t law. They are directives that the eu give to countries who should but not necessarily do write into law

    We ignored the EU 2 year minimum directive because our Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act was better than it. So there's no EU directive in this country on how long retailers are supposed to deal with issues.


  • Options
    #14
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    Del2005 wrote: »
    We ignored the EU 2 year minimum directive because our Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act was better than it. So there's no EU directive in this country on how long retailers are supposed to deal with issues.


    Read GM228's commentary in the other thread. We certainly haven't ignored the directive and it's in law here under the regulations I linked. As you'll see I was mistaken on this too but corrected in the linked thread.


    In a nutshell if the lack of conformity existed at the time of delivery the retailer is liable for a minimum of two years, our Statute of Limitations Act giving a further 4 years to make a claim without a guarantee of success.


  • Options
    #15
    phester28
    Registered Users Posts: 453 ✭✭phester28


    while we are on this topic. I assume that redress through the small claims court will along time (longer than you can be without a washing machine). Is it safe to say that the user could replace her washing machine herself and then claim the money back for the faulty purchased goods?


  • Options
    #16
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    phester28 wrote: »
    while we are on this topic. I assume that redress through the small claims court will along time (longer than you can be without a washing machine). Is it safe to say that the user could replace her washing machine herself and then claim the money back for the faulty purchased goods?


    No but you could repair it and claim that.


  • Options
    #17
    whiterebel
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,848 Mod ✭✭✭✭whiterebel


    Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »
    Read GM228's commentary in the other thread. We certainly haven't ignored the directive and it's in law here under the regulations I linked. As you'll see I was mistaken on this too but corrected in the linked thread.


    In a nutshell if the lack of conformity existed at the time of delivery the retailer is liable for a minimum of two years, our Statute of Limitations Act giving a further 4 years to make a claim without a guarantee of success.

    That doesn't tally with what was said in the other thread from what I can see. A directive has to be put in place, unless there is a better protection afforded - which there is by the SoGA. That is why we didn't enact the 2 year warranty, we offer better protection. It isn't a case of the first 2 years by the EU, then the rest by SoGA, we only recognise that in Ireland. If you speak to The Competition and Consumer affairs Commission they will tell you the same.
    Apple were one of the first companies to implement this properly, and you can see from their website which countries the 2 years apply to and the countries that have other arrangements in place. Ireland is one of the others.


  • Options
    #18
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    whiterebel wrote: »
    That doesn't tally with what was said in the other thread from what I can see. A directive has to be put in place, unless there is a better protection afforded - which there is by the SoGA. That is why we didn't enact the 2 year warranty, we offer better protection. It isn't a case of the first 2 years by the EU, then the rest by SoGA, we only recognise that in Ireland. If you speak to The Competition and Consumer affairs Commission they will tell you the same.
    Apple were one of the first companies to implement this properly, and you can see from their website which countries the 2 years apply to and the countries that have other arrangements in place. Ireland is one of the others.


    The discussion in the other thread clearly shows, by interpretation of the Regulations and citing case law that a 2 year warranty period is in effect in Ireland. Decisions of our courts must take into account ECJ case law which recognises a two year warranty period was created.

    The Sales of Goods Acts make no reference to a time period, that's the Statute of Limitations. There is no length of guarantee their either, just a period in which you can make a claim, which may or may not be successful.

    If you require further clarification post your questions in the Legal Discussions thread you'll be fully answered.


  • Options
    #19
    whiterebel
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,848 Mod ✭✭✭✭whiterebel


    Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »
    The discussion in the other thread clearly shows, by interpretation of the Regulations and citing case law that a 2 year warranty period is in effect in Ireland. Decisions of our courts must take into account ECJ case law which recognises a two year warranty period was created.

    The Sales of Goods Acts make no reference to a time period, that's the Statute of Limitations. There is no length of guarantee their either, just a period in which you can make a claim, which may or may not be successful.

    If you require further clarification post your questions in the Legal Discussions thread you'll be fully answered.

    Thats my point it doesn't clearly show it. I'll go with the CCPC and legal advice on it, rather than the opinion of someone on a thread. It has been done to death here for years too. Aa a matter of interest, if a shop refused to do anything under the 2 year EU warranty, what would you do?


  • Options
    #20
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    whiterebel wrote: »
    Thats my point it doesn't clearly show it. I'll go with the CCPC and legal advice on it, rather than the opinion of someone on a thread. It has been done to death here for years too. Aa a matter of interest, if a shop refused to do anything under the 2 year EU warranty, what would you do?

    Small claims procedure in the DC which has to take into account European case law.

    What has you confused in the other thread? The two year warranty period is in effect due to European case law finding that the Directive created a two year warranty period. Your previous post suggested that we have better protections here - what are they? If you're referring to the six year limitation period given by the SoL then that is not a better protection than a two year warranty.

    You'll see that I was a proponent of this not being in Irish law. I was wrong as evidenced by the thread linked. A two year minimum warranty period does exist in Irish law.


  • Options
    #21
    whiterebel
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,848 Mod ✭✭✭✭whiterebel


    Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »
    Small claims procedure in the DC which has to take into account European case law.

    What has you confused in the other thread? The two year warranty period is in effect due to European case law finding that the Directive created a two year warranty period. Your previous post suggested that we have better protections here - what are they? If you're referring to the six year limitation period given by the SoL then that is not a better protection than a two year warranty.

    You'll see that I was a proponent of this not being in Irish law. I was wrong as evidenced by the thread linked. A two year minimum warranty period does exist in Irish law.

    No confusion on my behalf. You seemed to jump from your view to someone else’s in the space of one post, and take it as gospel. Let us know how you get on when you try to get satisfaction under a part of the directive that was never implemented - As is also said by the poster in the other thread. They never specified 2 years in Irish Law.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #22
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    I've double checked this, admittedly having to get a steer and going back over EU law notes. The two year warranty period does apply in Ireland, the thread over in legal discussions is the correct place to discuss it further as its a technical matter of EU law.


  • Options
    #23
    whiterebel
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,848 Mod ✭✭✭✭whiterebel


    Whatever you want to believe. This is going in circles, so I’m out.


  • Options
    #24
    GM228
    Registered Users Posts: 8,925 ✭✭✭GM228


    whiterebel wrote: »
    Whatever you want to believe. This is going in circles, so I’m out.

    Some people are obviously not too well up on how ECJ case law must be interpreted or applied in a member state, nor the principles of indirect effect.

    Unlike vertical direct effect the principles of indirect effect can be used between individuals to invoke rights afforded by Directives (both partially or fully un-implemented provisions), this is now well settled, the Small Claims Procedure must take account of this as a quasi-judicial type of procedure.


  • Options
    #25
    Lux23
    Registered Users Posts: 7,134 ✭✭✭Lux23


    Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »
    I've double checked this, admittedly having to get a steer and going back over EU law notes. The two year warranty period does apply in Ireland, the thread over in legal discussions is the correct place to discuss it further as its a technical matter of EU law.

    The Sales of Good Act is also in effect.


  • Options
    #26
    chabsey
    Registered Users Posts: 1,321 ✭✭✭chabsey


    Resurrecting this thread as it seems to cover what I'm interested in but I'm not getting a clear answer from those posted. My situation is that I bought a coffee machine from DID almost exactly two years ago (posting this on Nov 28th, I still have the receipt from Nov 27th 2020). It has started intermittently tripping the ELCB in the house and my best guess is that the water reservoir is leaking and tripping it that way (this is a guess though).

    Do I have any hope of redress with DID or DeLonghi (who made the unit)? I imagine DeLonghi will try and fob me off with 1 year warranty talk but if I get the same line from DID are they correct and do I need to just suck it up? Aside from this issue the unit has been great, we use it multiple times a day.



  • Options
    #27
    walterking
    Registered Users Posts: 1,297 ✭✭✭walterking


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119930654#Comment_119930654

    Probably not as you would have to show that the fault was the cause of a manufacturing fault and that would be difficult after 2 years. Google the issue and you may find some ideas to fix it



Advertisement