Rise of Vegetarian/Veganism

El_Duderino 09 · 09-08-2019 5:56pm

emaherx wrote: »

Not especially, if that's what people want to eat compared to the sentiment of threads like this that have people who just don't like meat looking to have beef farming and all meat production abolished or at least reduced to near nothing. Do you not think fish industry would be next in their sights?

I thought you said you'd prefer to see people eat more fish. So why would yoi advocate for it as long as it doesn't come at the expense of beef consumption? Is the advancement of he beef Industry is the more important issue for you?

I don't mind if the fish industry is next "in their sights". Unlike yourself, I haven't started from the conclusion of defending particular industry and using any old argument to that end.

gozunda · 09-08-2019 5:57pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Same response because it's the exact same issue. You have plenty of info and experience so you could be a great source of info on the topic. But instead you only argue against anything that wouldn't suit your own industry. ..

Lol even more of exact same malarkey again and the plant based interests are impartial - sure they are! Thankfully facts about cattle figures and production etc can't be argued. Doesnt mean you dont have some eejits. trying...:rolleyes:

Btw didnt reply to any of your daft comments because the modus operandi like above was about as stupid as it gets. Anyone would have to be daft to think it's coincidence that in your posts the farmers etc are always wrong in one way or another. Their arguments are never good. Anything that doesn't suit the plant food advocates / industry is opposed. And btw no I know nowt about fish - which is pretty much the same as yourself evidently.

Take it on the chin sunshine - you're a busted flush. I know this is AH - but even AH has some standards ....

Upstream · 09-08-2019 5:58pm

Re White Oak Pastures,
This is how they moved from conventional to regenerative farming.
How their beef went from being a net contributor to greenhouse gas emissions to a net carbon sink.
They're not the only ones, farmers the world over are moving to regenerative agriculture.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoQWLK8-CYE

Upstream wrote: »

The way you asked the question it was as if meat could not be good for the environment. That's not the case, see the link below, beef can build soil and sequester carbon!

If the choice was between industrially produced meat vs regeneratively produced fish, I'd choose the fish.

But my argument is we need to move all food production away from industrial production, towards regenerative production.

Upstream · 09-08-2019 6:04pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I thought you said you'd prefer to see people eat more fish. So why would yoi advocate for it as long as it doesn't come at the expense of beef consumption? Is the advancement of he beef Industry is the more important issue for you?

I don't mind if the fish industry is next "in their sights". Unlike yourself, I haven't started from the conclusion of defending particular industry and using any old argument to that end.

I said

If the choice was between industrially produced meat vs regeneratively produced fish, I'd choose the fish.

and emaherx thanked my post, is that close enough for you

Can you concede there is such a thing as beef that's good for the environment like in the examples I've showed?
You should check out the links I posted - there is such a thing as regenerative beef - honestly

emaherx · 09-08-2019 6:04pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I thought you said you'd prefer to see people eat more fish. So why would yoi advocate for it as long as it doesn't come at the expense of beef consumption? Is the advancement of he beef Industry is the more important issue for you?

I don't mind if the fish industry is next "in their sights". Unlike yourself, I haven't started from the conclusion of defending particular industry and using any old argument to that end.

Sorry fixed my terrible grammar there a bit.

But not sure you know what not especially means.but Ok

Don't actually know anyone who eats beef everyday so don't see it as being an either or thing.

emaherx · 09-08-2019 6:16pm

Upstream wrote: »

I said
and emaherx thanked my post, is that close enough for you

Can you concede there is such a thing as beef that's good for the environment like in the examples I've showed?
You should check out the links I posted - there is such a thing as regenerative beef - honestly

Wouldn't worry about it too much.

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Honestly, I'm just seeing how far out of your way you'll go to hold the line.

With ever more rediculous scenarios.

Thelonious Monk · 09-08-2019 6:17pm

I think this is the most civilised discussion on these matters ive seen here so well done all and happy friday

Upstream · 09-08-2019 6:22pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I think this is the most civilised discussion on these matters ive seen here so well done all and happy friday

Happy Friday all

This week I made a post that was thanked by you AND gozunda

I win the internet

gozunda · 09-08-2019 6:24pm

Upstream wrote: »

I'd say it's a credibility issue Gozunda - but that's not to attack anyone - most people now find it simply incredible that anyone could say beef could be good for the environment.
It's a reasonable attitude if you believe even a fraction of what you hear about animal agriculture in the media.

In my case I think it took me about two or three weeks to take in what I'd seen in the Allan Savory video I posted above about how cows could have a major role in reversing climate change.
And I'm a beef farmer...
Maybe not the quickest learner

Eventually the penny dropped and I realised I'd fallen down the soil health rabbit hole, and the whole world looked different then.
Everything looks different through the lens of soil health, from the causes of environmental problems like flooding and climate change, even as far as the effects on human health of eating food grown in healthy soil.

And that's why I'm trying to move away from industrial farming towards regenerative agriculture, and throw up some arguments in defense of beef here, as it's not the problem, the damage to our soils from the industrial food model is.

Wow fair play. I operate a pretty much closed system as is possible and try to put back in what is taken out organically. The number one item with regard to soil health I find is organic matter and pH. Allow either one to get out of balance and you are in trouble. I find a lot of the basic ideas of regenerative agriculture were widely practised here to not so long ago. Unfortunatly pressures from the EU and elsewhere has meant that for a long time intensity was promoted over sustainability. Doesnt mean everyone went down that path - just that's was being pushed over and above all other concerns. Thankfully in Ireland most agricultural production is still more or less extensive and I dont think it would take much to put it back where it significantly benefits both humans and the natural environment. We simply need to work with what we have and what works here best.

Upstream · 09-08-2019 6:33pm

gozunda wrote: »

Wow fair play. I operate a pretty much closed system as is possible and try to put back in what is taken out organically. The number one item with regard to soil health I find is organic matter and pH. Allow either one to get out of balance and you are in trouble. I find a lot of the basic ideas of regenerative agriculture were widely practised here to not so long ago. Unfortunatly pressures from the EU and elsewhere has meant that for a long time intensity was promoted over sustainability. Doesnt mean everyone went down that path - just that's was being pushed over and above all other concerns. Thankfully in Ireland most agricultural production is still more or less extensive and I dont think it would take much to put it back where it significantly benefits both humans and the natural environment.

I'm only starting out here, just realising a good bit of what I'm doing needs to change and taking a few baby steps, trying out a few ideas.

Cheap oil made a lot of decisions for farmers, I think that was one of the main drivers of intensive agriculture.

But the results are coming in from people who have made changes in a more biological/regenerative direction, and they are really encouraging, so I'll keep plugging away

Thelonious Monk · 09-08-2019 6:42pm

Im on my 4th pint of IPA how bad is the footprint for this sh*t?

Thelonious Monk · 09-08-2019 6:43pm

Upstream wrote: »

Happy Friday all
This week I made a post that was thanked by you AND gozunda

I win the internet

You just made your second ffs

emaherx · 09-08-2019 6:53pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Im on my 4th pint of IPA how bad is the footprint for this sh*t?

Ohhh...... And you worry about cattle

Just think of your carbon footprint in the morning!

Upstream · 09-08-2019 7:01pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

You just made your second ffs

Regenerative Agriculture FTW

weisses · 21-08-2019 11:17am

Upstream wrote: »

It's industrial agriculture that is the problem, it's not the cow, it's the how.
That means farmers have to change their ways - just not in the way you think.

I know what the problem is.

Farming have to change yes ...But I doubt they will or can change ... beside the very few who are making an effort

emaherx · 21-08-2019 6:33pm

weisses wrote: »

I know what the problem is.

Farming have to change yes ...But I doubt they will or can change ... beside the very few who are making an effort

How much do you actually know about Irish farming before you make a statement like that?

Do you know that 54% of Irish suckler farmers have less than 10 cows, are these the ones that you would like to see reduce their numbers and change?

When the Irish small farmers are wiped out, people will be buying meat imported from South America instead. Funny the emphasis is on cow farts/burps here when the the burning of Amazon rain forest has increased 84% this year to clear more land for them.

Buford T. Justice XIX · 21-08-2019 9:55pm

weisses wrote: »

I know what the problem is.

Farming have to change yes ...But I doubt they will or can change ... beside the very few who are making an effort

https://twitter.com/fleroy1974/status/1163876985266933760?s=19

Rise of Vegetarian/Veganism

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