Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

bmc58 · 25-05-2020 3:29pm

double jobbing wrote: »

Simon Harris really is a c'unt. Country financially crippled and he wants us paying more.

Tuborg already upped their price by 50 cent per 4 pack in anticipation of this.

Horrible stuff Tuborg.Wouldn't drink it if it was for free.

Muahahaha · 25-05-2020 3:33pm

Quackster wrote: »

Yep, it passed the legal test in Scotland and, as of March this year, is now law in Wales as well.

Cheers, I guess that means Im just a little bit closer to going up to the attic and getting my home brewing equipment out of storage. Can brew quality beer for 50 cents a pint so thats what I'll be doing when this comes in.

Be interesting to see how a black market for alcohol pops up overnight when they introduce this. We already have some 25% of all cigarette sales now in the black market, alcohol will go the same direction and the very criminal networks who already run the cigarette trade will be perfectly positioned to do the same with alcohol too.

YFlyer · 25-05-2020 3:35pm

odyssey06 wrote: »

That works out at €3 per litre, €2.50 a litre if you get the 2L bottle.

In Carrefour France you can get cider bottles for €1.60 a litre, before 10am!
* This part of the story is true

I had to fight my way through the drinks aisle past drunken louts to purchase a (nice) bottle of wine for €3...
* This part of the story is not true, but exists in the fever dream of some MUP proponents

Cheers. I may buy a 2L bottle next. I dropped the ball there. Off to Aldi soon.

25-05-2020 3:36pm

I really believe that the people complaining that alcohol is too cheap in off licences must be involved in the pub trade.
Alcohol is not cheap in Ireland. Go to Germany or anywhere else in Europe and you will see what cheap alcohol really costs.

PopePalpatine · 25-05-2020 5:14pm

Faxe's absolute units are back in Lidl for €1.99 each.

ShatterAlan · 25-05-2020 5:40pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I really believe that the people complaining that alcohol is too cheap in off licences must be involved in the pub trade.
Alcohol is not cheap in Ireland. Go to Germany or anywhere else in Europe and you will see what cheap alcohol really costs.

Agreed. In the Netherlands you can get most mainstream beers like Heineken and Amstel for E4.59 a 6pack. Lesser known brands like Dommelsch Pils is 3.69 a 6 pack. Even the supermarkets own brand pilsner which is pretty decent is 49c for a 500ml can. It's 39c if you have a bonus card which you can just get at the service desk anyway. So let's do the "math"....you can get 13 cans of decent lager for just a few cents over a fiver and get trolleyed for the same price as 4 cans of Tuborg or Praszky in Ireland.

da_miser · 30-05-2020 9:23pm

Im well out of school and in a decent job, can afford a few drinks at the weekend.
Now imagine i'm once again 20 years old, do i spend my hard earned money on a €6 pint, €2 Dutch gold or €3 "premium" can of beer.
So i;m thing, lot of money to be spent on beer, as sure fûck it i'll drop a trip for €5 and be out of it from 15:00 Saturday till midnight and then smoke a joint and head home at 03:00.
The war on drugs will never be won if alcohol is so expensive

odyssey06 · 30-05-2020 9:27pm

da_miser wrote: »

Im well out of school and in a decent job, can afford a few drinks at the weekend.
Now imagine i'm once again 20 years old, do i spend my hard earned money on a €6 pint, €2 Dutch gold or €3 "premium" can of beer.
So i;m thing, lot of money to be spent on beer, as sure fûck it i'll drop a trip for €5 and be out of it from 15:00 Saturday till midnight and then smoke a joint and head home at 03:00.
The war on drugs will never be won if alcohol is so expensive

That reminds me of a quote from Thomas Jefferson trying to nudge the American people away from moonshine to wine...

No nation is drunken where wine is cheap; and none sober, where the dearness of wine substitutes ardent spirits as the common beverage. It is in truth the only antidote to the bane of whisky.

da_miser · 30-05-2020 9:38pm

The simple fact is there is no such thing as drug pushers.
They do not push their product on anyone
People seek out the drugs.
Meanwhile Alcohol is advertised everywhere and Tobacco is advertised in Movies as a cool thing the heroes do.
They say all drugs are bad, the the youngsters smoke a joint, enjoy it , go to bed, wake up , SHOCK HORROR not a addict, get on with their lives. Might be weeks, months or years before they smoke a joint again.

So they think, the powers that be lie about weed, maybe they lie about Heroin? Devastation follows, the time for proper drug laws in now.
Increase the price of alcohol, expect a surge in drug use, as a working man with money, if beer gets too expensive i will certainly be seeking out the drugs of my youth

Capt'n Midnight · 31-05-2020 1:59am

YFlyer wrote: »

Would 4 cans if Linden Village for €6 be expensive compared to elsewhere?

500ml cans ?
You can buy 2L of cider for less than €4.

23% of that is VAT, most of the rest is excise. And the cider you get in supermarkets has the same cost of production. I expect the the word "village" comes from a marketing focus group rather than it being from a community friendly local micro brewery.

Capt'n Midnight · 31-05-2020 2:04am

da_miser wrote: »

The simple fact is there is no such thing as drug pushers.

Geuze · 31-05-2020 2:07am

If the rate of VAT is x%, then VAT is not x% of the retail price.

That is a common, typical mistake.

4.00 cider less 23% VAT = 4.00/1.23 = 3.25

VAT is 75c, or 18.75% of the price.

Excise is 94.46 per hectolitre, or 94.46 cent per litre.

https://www.revenue.ie/en/companies-and-charities/excise-and-licences/excise-duty-rates/alcohol-products-tax.aspx

So 1.89 excise + 0.75 VAT = 2.64 tax on the 4.00 cider.

sheepsh4gger · 31-05-2020 2:20am

Commotion Ocean wrote: »

The government are set to bring in minimum alcohol pricing.

A slab of 24 cans will have a minimum price of €48 and a bottle of spirits will be a minimum of €28.

Ultimate nanny state bolloxogy and pandering again to the vitners association.

I'm on touch site, so link to follow.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2016/1124/834033-alcohol-research-rcsi/

(Misspelling in the headline ... no surprises coming from that North Korean unionised crap rag anyway.)

This is absolute nonsense in my opinion. Even the cheapest of beers (shop own brand) will have to be sold at €2 per can (1 Euro per unit of alcohol). Naggins will be a minimum of €8, 70cl bottles will be €28, cans of beer €2 and a whopping €40 for a litre of spirits.

We are heading on a slippery slope towards a fascist Nazi-style dictatorship. Ireland is a First World country, I believe in capitalism. If someone over the legal drinking age wants to buy a can of beer at 50 cents and a shop is offering the cans at such a price, then why should a Hitler-style government stop them?

Hahaha, this is an authoritarian communist state posing as a free market economy. What will happen is very easy to predict, but commies have no connection to reality so they wouldn't know: everyone will start making and selling booze illegally. All you really need is a can of Coopers syrup/base and some 'turbo' yeast. What are they going to do then - ban yeast?

People make alcohol in prison, it's very easy.

sheepsh4gger · 31-05-2020 2:31am

> Speaking on RTÉ's Morning Ireland, Prof Murray said alcohol is associated with an enormous amount of illness and death in Ireland.
no sh1t
so does having lowest IQ scores in EU
what is he going to do exactly about it? Increase the price? Great, now every paddy will turn his living space into a brewery.

In Finland they tried prohibition, it just encouraged people to make their own alcohol.

Also you create a black market.

The dumbest thing a government can do is make it more profitable to commit crime. There will be gangs running Ethanol distilleries then people will create fake beer by adding pure ethanol to non-alcoholic beer and sell it as booze.

Atlantic Dawn · 31-05-2020 2:35am

da_miser wrote: »

Im well out of school and in a decent job, can afford a few drinks at the weekend.
Now imagine i'm once again 20 years old, do i spend my hard earned money on a €6 pint, €2 Dutch gold or €3 "premium" can of beer.
So i;m thing, lot of money to be spent on beer, as sure fûck it i'll drop a trip for €5 and be out of it from 15:00 Saturday till midnight and then smoke a joint and head home at 03:00.
The war on drugs will never be won if alcohol is so expensive

€8 pints will be needed to save the pubs, anyone thinking that those fond of circa €1 cans are going to rush to the pubs is deluded, illegal drugs it will be and lots of them that the state will make the grand sum of zero from.

Suckit · 01-06-2020 12:49am

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

€8 pints will be needed to save the pubs, anyone thinking that those fond of circa €1 cans are going to rush to the pubs is deluded, illegal drugs it will be and lots of them that the state will make the grand sum of zero from.

Not disagreeing, but I'm of the belief that the pubs already make a massive proift.
Maybe not so many of the newer ones with tons of staff and high rents, but they are still fairly comfortable using the existing prices. The older owned pubs should be okay, as should the rural locations.
I can't see a whole heap of people (especially younger people) rushing to the pubs after this summer to pay their ridiculous prices.
€8 pints may be required if many of them want to keep their lifestyle, but if sacrifices are expected to be made to stay open, imo it's going to have to be the pubs and not likely to be the customers that are going to make them.
Pubs will suffer for a while longer, at least until they reinforce the ban on public drinking. Pints should but may not drop in price if they want people in the doors. Michael O'Leary school of business. Charge more for the food etc. when they're drunk. :rolleyes:
Rising the price of off-licence alcohol in Ireland is likely to going to have a heap of people with vans heading to mainland Europe to stock up and then sell it back here. Probably funding crime. It's a terrible copycat idea.

I still don't understand the reasoning behind it, as none of the reasons I have heard make any sense.

titan18 · 01-06-2020 12:58am

I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.

What they should do to cover multiple issues is increase the price but as a recycling incentive and if you bring the bottle or can back, you get an amount back.

I know in Germany, it's called pfand system and when I was there before travelling, thought it worked well.

If people don't bring theirs back and litter, not only do they get hit with the increased cost, but people short of money will clean up the litter for extra money for themselves.

Hotblack Desiato · 01-06-2020 1:25am

Geuze wrote: »

If the rate of VAT is x%, then VAT is not x% of the retail price.

That is a common, typical mistake.

4.00 cider less 23% VAT = 4.00/1.23 = 3.25

VAT is 75c, or 18.75% of the price.

Excise is 94.46 per hectolitre, or 94.46 cent per litre.

https://www.revenue.ie/en/companies-and-charities/excise-and-licences/excise-duty-rates/alcohol-products-tax.aspx

So 1.89 excise + 0.75 VAT = 2.64 tax on the 4.00 cider.

So... who is paying 4 euro for a can of cider in an off-licence again?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 01-06-2020 1:41am

Geuze wrote: »

Where is this "way too cheap" drink you speak of?

50cl of beer starts at 29c in Germany.

Bottles of spirits from 10 euro in Lidl Germany:

https://www.lidl-flyer.com/beste-weine-fur-jeden-anlass-30-04-2020-31-05-2020/view/flyer/page/20?_ga=2.23769786.1473263943.1590405183-1404584930.1590405183

Yeah, but the quality of a 29c beer is not great (although better than budweiser).

Potential-Monke · 01-06-2020 2:43am

odyssey06 wrote: »

The interaction between alcohol and health is complex, as all risks mortality studies have shown. Are there no problem drinkers in pubs? No drink drivers coming home from pubs? You'll have to come up with some actual arguments here, "if we actually cared" is not an argument worthy of any respect, it's a pretty tired debating tactic, trying to paint people opposed to this measure as somehow less caring. Why not throw in a "will someone please think of the children"?

I probably worded it wrong, I'm not good with words sometimes. What I meant was, alcohol is a pretty dangerous thing and we still allow advertising, it's quite profitable for the higher ups and government. This faux care they peddle with the effects of alcohol compaigns and the drink driving ads, they don't do much really, other than be a tick box for someone to say 'We tried this!'. All the while knowing that it's a great earner so they don't really want to stop people drinking. Just my opinion mind.

And I couldn't care less about the children, it's me I care about. I spent 9 years as a Garda, and the vast majority of incidents were drink related. I suppose dealing with that shyte, sober, turned me against the idea. I've since quit the Guards, stopped drinking and become a stoner. Far better life because of it. Can't really see the draw of it any more. And I've finally come to realise that I've been lying to myself for years thinking that drink tastes nice. It doesn't. We just fool ourselves into finding the one we find most palatable and begin to think it's nice. Again, just my opinion (craft beer is mank).

Reading some comments in defence of alcohol reminds me of comments in defence of weed. Just happens one is legal and the other isn't. And I suppose when I was last drinking, I was getting 12 cans for €10 (St. Etienne from Aldi, was lovely stuff when I was drinking imo, it's the smaller bubbles). That's pretty cheap to me. Means for €20 I can get messy drunk!

Meh, doesn't bother me anyway. Between the above and Covid, I probably won't be at large gatherings again so doesn't affect me.

Capt'n Midnight · 01-06-2020 5:15pm

Potential-Monke wrote: »

And I suppose when I was last drinking, I was getting 12 cans for €10 (St. Etienne from Aldi, was lovely stuff when I was drinking imo, it's the smaller bubbles). That's pretty cheap to me.

MUP means it will double in price to €20

VAT means that in theory the revenue will get €1.87 more from the VAT on that extra tenner.
But in reality they won't as that extra tenner would likely otherwise be spent on something that has VAT.

But ALDI will pocket €8.13 for doing nothing at all, because they will still be buying from their supplier at the same price.

Hotblack Desiato · 01-06-2020 11:01pm

Potential-Monke wrote: »

I spent 9 years as a Garda, and the vast majority of incidents were drink related.

I suspect you were dealing with arseholes who happened to be drinkers, rather than non-arsehole drinkers who the drink somehow turned into arseholes.

We just fool ourselves into finding the one we find most palatable and begin to think it's nice. Again, just my opinion (craft beer is mank).

:rolleyes: and then you go on to say how you liked St. Etienne from Aldi. A true connoisseur of the grain and the grape...

KrustyUCC · 02-06-2020 11:52am

New figures show that 24 million fewer pints of beer and cider were consumed in Ireland in April 2020 compared to April 2019.

Alcohol sales increased in the off-trade in April, but overall, the closure of the on-trade resulted in a fall in the total amount consumed in Ireland.

Looking at beer and cider, data from Nielsen shows there was a 58% increase in the volume of beer and cider sold in the off-trade, but overall sales of beer and cider fell by 36% due to pubs being closed. It's estimated that generally around 60% of beer and cider sales are in the on-trade.

The numbers on the sale of spirits show a similar trend, with 4.9 million fewer 35.5ml serves of spirits sold in April 2020 compared to the previous year. There was a 24% increase in the volume of off-trade sales, but a 13% overall decrease in the volume of spirits sold in Ireland.

brightspark · 03-06-2020 4:48am

Weren't we told that the cheap drink from off-licences was the main cause of excessive alcohol consumption in this country, yet overall consumption has fallen at at time when the only sales are via off-licences when many people were stuck at home with more free time available, no worries about having to drive the following morning etc.

Leroy42 · 03-06-2020 7:43am

brightspark wrote: »

Weren't we told that the cheap drink from off-licences was the main cause of excessive alcohol consumption in this country, yet overall consumption has fallen at at time when the only sales are via off-licences when many people were stuck at home with more free time available, no worries about having to drive the following morning etc.

Yeah. The numbers would seem to suggest that it is the pubs that are the main issue.

L1011 · 03-06-2020 10:58am

Remember, Drinking in Pubs is Perfectly Safe, according to the LVA/VFI :pac:

odyssey06 · 03-06-2020 11:03am

L1011 wrote: »

Remember, Drinking in Pubs is Perfectly Safe, according to the LVA/VFI :pac:

Under all circumstances. The unique atmosphere of a pub also protects drinkers against all known coronaviruses

da_miser · 03-06-2020 11:11am

You all getting your knickers in a twist about something that was on the cards when the country was prosperous.
The nation is heading into a serious financial crisis, the one comfort people will have during this hard time will be a few drinks, the Government wont be shutting of this pressure release valve.
If Dublin can have a protest for BLM, (the usual suspect turned out for that), a protest about something that happened half a world away with ZERO relevance in Ireland, (thats the truth, we all know it but not PC to admit it) imagine the amount of people out protesting if they can afford a drink during a recession? The stuff of nightmares for the Government.
Your drink is safe, don't panic.

L1011 · 03-06-2020 11:22am

da_miser wrote: »

You all getting your knickers in a twist about something that was on the cards when the country was prosperous.
The nation is heading into a serious financial crisis, the one comfort people will have during this hard time will be a few drinks, the Government wont be shutting of this pressure release valve.
If Dublin can have a protest for BLM, (the usual suspect turned out for that), a protest about something that happened half a world away with ZERO relevance in Ireland, (thats the truth, we all know it but not PC to admit it) imagine the amount of people out protesting if they can afford a drink during a recession? The stuff of nightmares for the Government.
Your drink is safe, don't panic.

Both FF and FG fully support this due to the number of publicans in the parties; and they've deluded most other politicians to support it too. It'll pass.

It'll probably get thrown out in the courts due to lack of trying other methods first (like our minimum smokes pricing was); but that'll take months to years

Remember, this measure is 100% about supporting publicans and their unprofitable/dear on-site off-licences; not a jot about public health.

It'll probably also make societal issues worse as dependent drinkers are going to spend the extra cash and leave their families with even less money for food/rent/whatever.

Leroy42 · 03-06-2020 11:51am

You do you think will protest this? A few quid extra of drink on the oft, as this Covid is showing as all prices have increased, will not make a massive difference and certainly won't have people out marching.

Most alcohol is currently sold in pubs, so price is not really a major issue for most people.

And just like when the pubs increase their prices, people moan and make claims that they won't pay that, but it never make any real difference

Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

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