Seeing more discussion of Omega discontinuing the 1861/3 (Speedy moonwatch) lines

Thirdfox · 17-05-2020 9:55pm #1

Haven't really paid attention to this (or even realised that Omega brought out a 3861/3863 movement a few months ago) - but just saw some talk about Omega potentially ending the old Speedy Pro line with the 1861/863 lines in favour of the new 3861/3 lines.

Won't make much of a change to me as I've gotten my Speedy Pro (well two strange Speedy Pros - the 186.0004 and 3575.20) already. But what about potential new buyers? I daresay they might not enjoy the bump in price Omega would make to the Speedy Pro as a result of the new movement...on the other hand if it's Omega's intention to move further up the price scale then the Speedy Pro with the old movement was hindering that move as the cheapest Omega in the stable and not something they could just add 2k onto the price to without doing something like changing/"upgrading" the movement.

New buyers who are looking for 1861/3s can always look at the used market too... is it time to put the 1861/3 out to pasture?

unkel · 17-05-2020 10:51pm

Thirdfox wrote: »

on the other hand if it's Omega's intention to move further up the price scale then the Speedy Pro with the old movement was hindering that move as the cheapest Omega in the stable and not something they could just add 2k onto the price to without doing something like changing/"upgrading" the movement.

Moving several grand up the price scale like that is not going to work though, is it?

I bought my Seamaster 300M automatic for a 3 figure sum, 3 years ago. That was a steal, even though there was a significant scratch on the bezel. Sold it this year for 65% more at 1600. A mint one with box and papers is worth maybe 2000. Yet a brand new one retails for 5000

Linky

That's not a 5k watch in my book. You can put a 5k price tag on it. And then maybe some people pay that and some people get a large discount. Either way there is massive depreciation and the second hand value suffers.

And the quality just isn't on a par with some other 5k watches, is all I'm saying.

Thirdfox · 18-05-2020 12:05am

I thought Patek and Zenith did that a few years ago with some of their pieces and as I'm not someone in the market for a new Patek or Zenith I don't know if the market accepted the new prices or not. Wasn't there a period of yearly increases in price from a few watch brands?

Are the Rolex divers worth their asking prices? I haven't held any in hand so can't say - but I can't imagine they would be that much more superior to an IWC Aquatimer or Omega Seamaster. So a watch is worth what people are willing to pay for them... maybe some/enough people will be willing to pay 5k for the entry level Omega offering in the future...

unkel · 18-05-2020 12:37am

Thirdfox wrote: »

Are the Rolex divers worth their asking prices?

Pretty much no Rolex is readily available even at the full asking price (RRP). Certainly not their divers.

Thirdfox wrote: »

maybe some/enough people will be willing to pay 5k for the entry level Omega offering in the future...

Show me someone willing to pay 5k for an entry level Omega like a Seamaster 300M and I will show you a fool.

A+-Guru · 19-05-2020 6:13pm

I agree, no way id spend 5k on entry level Omega, not a chance. you can get a Rolex OP 39mm for that range from an AD and it will hold its value.

all that will happen here is the guy who buys at RRP, will get royally donein the backside if they ever want to sell it.

btkm8unsl0w5r4 · 19-05-2020 6:58pm

The Seamaster is gone bonkers pricewise (quality watch mind you), and they are trying to move the speed masters up there too with all the vintage movements and special editions.

I will say Unkle I took your Seamaster, took a cape cod to it and a better photo and sold it for 2000. That was a very collectable Seamaster the origional automatic bond...the later ones are not half as collectable.

I hate to always get back to residuals but it play such a big part. If Omega want loyal customers and repeat buyers, they need to prevent their customers getting molested in the dealers. I look at an Omega and instantly take 25% off the price...30% if you are a good haggler, the RRP is just idiocy.

Rolex take care with the RRP even holding it down in a market where some second hand models sell for twice RRP and a 20 year old stainless sub sells for close to a new one. They treat their customers with respect and respect their customers money. Omega just seem happy to take your money once and let you take one in the rear with the depreciation. I learned this on a Speedmaster reduced racing and a ceramic Seamaster both purchased RRP....I feel foolish.

A+-Guru · 19-05-2020 7:40pm

if I was buying a Omega watch, id fly to Lanzarote and get one at the AD there, I did it with a SpeedMaster Professional Moon watch couple of years back, got it for 3k Duty free, RRP weas 4.4k if I remember right, wore the watch back and put the box and packaging into the bag of my significant and once off the plane went through customs on my own,

was a trip to remember but sadly I sold that watch also, in hindsight I wish I kept it now because it had a little bit of a story to me behind it..

Alessandro Greasy Embryo wrote: »

The Seamaster is gone bonkers pricewise (quality watch mind you), and they are trying to move the speed masters up there too with all the vintage movements and special editions.

I will say Unkle I took your Seamaster, took a cape cod to it and a better photo and sold it for 2000. That was a very collectable Seamaster the origional automatic bond...the later ones are not half as collectable.

I hate to always get back to residuals but it play such a big part. If Omega want loyal customers and repeat buyers, they need to prevent their customers getting molested in the dealers. I look at an Omega and instantly take 25% off the price...30% if you are a good haggler, the RRP is just idiocy.

Rolex take care with the RRP even holding it down in a market where some second hand models sell for twice RRP and a 20 year old stainless sub sells for close to a new one. They treat their customers with respect and respect their customers money. Omega just seem happy to take your money once and let you take one in the rear with the depreciation. I learned this on a Speedmaster reduced racing and a ceramic Seamaster both purchased RRP....I feel foolish.

Thirdfox · 19-05-2020 8:10pm

You can get Omegas that appreciate in value too - the 3575.20 I have seems to have climbed in value by around a 900-1k since when I bought it 2ish years ago. So if I ever decide to switch it for something else I shouldn't take any hit.

Even now it is around 1-1.5k off its original retail price which means it has held its value relatively well compared to some of the more unlimited limited edition Omegas.

Not sure I get those Hodinkee Speedy Tuesday editions and how quickly they sell out but hey if that increases the value for other speedy holders like myself I'm not complaining

And if no-one buys new then we can't buy second hand

micks_address · 20-05-2020 10:51am

ive a couple of Omega's all bought secondhand. I think they are super watches and the quality is awesome but id never buy new. There's always lots on the secondhand market. My Seamaster 300 is a Bond quartz worn in Goldeneye by pearse brosnan. I paid 1450 for it, and its essentially in mint condition for a 2002 watch. I was a bit anti quartz there for a while thinking 'good' watches could only be automatics or manual wind to appreciate them. I love the pick up and go quality of quartz and the watch finish is the same so apart from the hand movement its a very similar experience. That said i can also appreciate the co axial movement in my aqua terra seamaster and how accurate it is.

micks_address · 20-05-2020 10:52am

Some of the speedies go like 20k... i can't imagine who is buying them. I tried on a moonphase speedy in the states last summer and it was beautiful but was 10k

Thirdfox wrote: »

You can get Omegas that appreciate in value too - the 3575.20 I have seems to have climbed in value by around a 900-1k since when I bought it 2ish years ago. So if I ever decide to switch it for something else I shouldn't take any hit.

Even now it is around 1-1.5k off its original retail price which means it has held its value relatively well compared to some of the more unlimited limited edition Omegas.

Not sure I get those Hodinkee Speedy Tuesday editions and how quickly they sell out but hey if that increases the value for other speedy holders like myself I'm not complaining

And if no-one buys new then we can't buy second hand

btkm8unsl0w5r4 · 20-05-2020 11:20am

micks_address wrote: »

Some of the speedies go like 20k... i can't imagine who is buying them. I tried on a moonphase speedy in the states last summer and it was beautiful but was 10k

If you look at some vids online (watches of scotland do one with Edenburough watch company) there are rabid speedmaster collectors out there. Just like with vinatage Rolex. The slightest difference in writing on the dial, layout or patina can means thousands on the price. There are so many varients you really need to know your onions to know is you have a gem or just a ordinary one.

Thirdfox · 20-05-2020 11:21am

micks_address wrote: »

Some of the speedies go like 20k... i can't imagine who is buying them. I tried on a moonphase speedy in the states last summer and it was beautiful but was 10k

10k - that must have been the aventurine dial and co-axial movement one?

The one that inspired me to try for an aventurine dial watch for the Sólás.

Omega-Moonwatch-Blue-Ceramic-Aventurine.002.jpg

Omega-Moonwatch-Blue-Ceramic-Aventurine.002.jpg

https://www.fratellowatches.com/speedmaster-moonphase-blue-side-of-the-moon-aventurine-dial/

Actually it was the predecessor that I saw (with the 1866 movement) that inspired me with Starlight:

Seeing more discussion of Omega discontinuing the 1861/3 (Speedy moonwatch) lines

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