Random Running Questions

Annie get your Run · 05-10-2017 11:43am

never_mind wrote: »

Yeah I know - I am following Endomondo but it reconfigures the plan if I am not running and it's very annoying. Like, if I was busy for a week and didn't run at all it would suggest I run 2x 4k runs and a 6k run as a 'long run'... I know what it's trying to do but it feels like it actually has the opposite effect making me not bother. Anyone else use that?

It's trying to ensure you don't get injured by running too much immediately after a period where you haven't run at all, in which case TBH I'd be following it's advice

. It may be frustrating but really, the worst thing you can do is go out and run a huge amount after a lot of down time. Consistency is key and even if that means a few shorter runs some days when you're stuck for time it's better than nothing at all.

If you get injured you could be off running for months on end....

Djoucer · 05-10-2017 11:44am

Get rid of endomondo and follow a specific running plan

never_mind · 05-10-2017 11:50am

Djoucer wrote: »

Get rid of endomondo and follow a specific running plan

Yeah I am really thinking of doing that... can ye suggest one? I have no speicific targets at the min as there is no HM coming up in Dublin area until next year. I am thinking of doing the 10k night run. Open to suggestions.

What I liked about the Endomondo is that it tells ya when to start and go.. lol. And tells ya your distance/speed etc. I have been running since 2014 would you believe and still sound very much like a noob. I'm one of those 'bad' runners who end up in phsyio.

Bobby1984 · 05-10-2017 1:57pm

Djoucer wrote: »

Get rid of endomondo and follow a specific running plan

I wouldn't get rid of Endomondo altogether but I would follow a specific plan. It will give you something to aim for, there is no thinking required as to what type of training to do or how far to go .... just follow the plan.

I really like Endomondo to track my run's so I can see my progress especially this year as I am training for DCM. I didn't use it 6 years ago when I last done DCM so I have no record of how I trained and no stats on how I paced myself in the race. I also like to export data to RunningAhead so I can create graphs and stuff

Zipppy · 05-10-2017 10:37pm

Have had to stop running for bit following surgery...inner thigh muscles are sore (kinds tight like) since stopping running...this sound familiar?

Zipppy · 05-10-2017 10:37pm

Have had to stop running for bit following surgery...inner thigh muscles are sore (kinds tight like) since stopping running...this sound familiar?

Hannibal_Smith · 06-10-2017 1:43pm

Just doing the med 1 form and throwing the physio receipts in with it (she told me I could). However the form says physio has to be on referral from a doc or other qualifying professional. I can find out if she's registered and thus a qualified professional, however she didn't refer me as such. She did it.

So have you ever claimed the tax back on your physio and if so, did you have a doc referral, or just considered it as a referral from the physio themselves?

runnerholic · 06-10-2017 1:47pm

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

Just doing the med 1 form and throwing the physio receipts in with it (she told me I could). However the form says physio has to be on referral from a doc or other qualifying professional. I can find out if she's registered and thus a qualified professional, however she didn't refer me as such. She did it.

So have you ever claimed the tax back on your physio and if so, did you have a doc referral, or just considered it as a referral from the physio themselves?

I always claim for physio on med 1. Afaik once the physio is chartered you are entitled to claim.

Bobby1984 · 06-10-2017 1:57pm

runnerholic wrote: »

I always claim for physio on med 1. Afaik once the physio is chartered you are entitled to claim.

Technically you do need to be referred by a qualified practitioner, you cannot self refer. I have never heard of Revenue ever requesting evidence of this but it could be an issue if they select you for audit testing.

jamule · 06-10-2017 9:17pm

Bobby1984 wrote: »

Technically you do need to be referred by a qualified practitioner, you cannot self refer. I have never heard of Revenue ever requesting evidence of this but it could be an issue if they select you for audit testing.

Nothing technical about it. The revenue are v clear. To qualify for relief your health care must be carried out or advised by a registered medical practitioner. They are not shy about requesting evidence either.

twerg_85 · 07-10-2017 4:25pm

Howdy all.
Want to do a 10mile race 28th October as part of training for a HM. Obviously nothing on since it clashes with SCAM.
Any ideas for an alternative workout to push myself ?
Thanks,
F.

Itziger · 07-10-2017 5:09pm

twerg_85 wrote: »

Howdy all.
Want to do a 10mile race 28th October as part of training for a HM. Obviously nothing on since it clashes with SCAM.
Any ideas for an alternative workout to push myself ?
Thanks,
F.

When's the HM? I think there are a few great HM workouts that you could pick between.

Depending on the answer to the question above...... you could do a progression run of say W/U, 3k HM pace+30, 3k HM pace+15, 3km HM pace, 1km 10k pace, C/D. (I've never actually done that!!! But I've done similar.)

There's the mixed pace stuff.... W/U, 10/12/15 mins @ Threshold (depending on level of fitness and type of workout you've been doing up to this point) + 3 or 4x1km @10k pace (about 90 sec recs) + the 10 or 12 mins of Threshold again, plus C/D.

Another tough session that I remember from Garmin plan is 90 mins with last 30 at HM pace. If you're in great shape you could make the 30 into 40. But like I say, a lot depends on what kind of plan you've been following and how sharp you are. None of the 3 I've mentioned is an easy session, but neither is a 10 mile race!!

RasTa · 08-10-2017 11:38am

Just realised I haven't taken in any water when training the past 2 months. Now the longest run I've done is only 13.6 miles.

I did 20miles without water before but that's because someone stole my bottle during the run but would not taking water up to half marathon distance during training be ok for recovery?

Testosterscone · 08-10-2017 11:59am

twerg_85 wrote: »

Howdy all.
Want to do a 10mile race 28th October as part of training for a HM. Obviously nothing on since it clashes with SCAM.
Any ideas for an alternative workout to push myself ?
Thanks,
F.

Leinster Novice Cross Country is that weekend if you are registered with a club. Only 6km but would stand to you for your Half Marathon

TFBubendorfer · 09-10-2017 9:25am

RasTa wrote: »

Just realised I haven't taken in any water when training the past 2 months. Now the longest run I've done is only 13.6 miles.

I did 20miles without water before but that's because someone stole my bottle during the run but would not taking water up to half marathon distance during training be ok for recovery?

I haven't taken in in any water during a training run for the last 10 years, and that includes plenty of runs of 20 miles or longer.

It has no impact on recovery whatsoever.

hot buttered scones · 11-10-2017 5:46pm

hot buttered scones wrote: »

Running in the Phoenix Park:

I've never had the opportunity to train in the Phoenix Park, but obviously I've race in it a few times. I might have the opportunity to do so in a few weeks for my last long run before Dublin. I have a couple of questions:

1. What time do the gates open on Sunday - in particular the ones you go through during the marathon?
2. Are the footpaths in good knick? I think I've only ever run on the roads in there.

If it comes to pass, I'll hopefully be going from Connolly, along the quays to join up with the marathon route, then run as far as Dolphins Barn, come off the course and run along the canal, cross the finish line and over to Pearse for the Dart.
Is there much traffic on a Sunday morning? I'd to have that whole Start/stop thing at lights etc - Cork is fairly quiet on a Sunday morning, so its not usually a problem for me.

The above questions have been answered already, so thanks. I just have one more question. Where is the best place to park?

Itziger · 11-10-2017 8:16pm

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

I haven't taken in in any water during a training run for the last 10 years, and that includes plenty of runs of 20 miles or longer.

It has no impact on recovery whatsoever.

Not taking in water on a training run of 20 miles wouldn't be for everyone. Know thyself, and all that.

The Muppet · 11-10-2017 9:15pm

RasTa wrote: »

Just realised I haven't taken in any water when training the past 2 months. Now the longest run I've done is only 13.6 miles.

I did 20miles without water before but that's because someone stole my bottle during the run but would not taking water up to half marathon distance during training be ok for recovery?

I,m the same don't take water on any training run . Longest recent run would be 13 miles too. I think once you properly hydrate before and after runs its not an issue.

Singer · 11-10-2017 9:55pm

hot buttered scones wrote: »

The above questions have been answered already, so thanks. I just have one more question. Where is the best place to park?

Outside Garda HQ has to be the most secure... right?

Enduro · 11-10-2017 10:47pm

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

I haven't taken in in any water during a training run for the last 10 years, and that includes plenty of runs of 20 miles or longer.

It has no impact on recovery whatsoever.

Just to back that up... I regularly run 5+ hours two days in a row. It's only on hot summer days that I'd take any water whilst running, or even beforehand. I've got a suspicion that you can train yourself to need less water (the usual stress->adapt pattern), but there's no science to back that up that I've found.

Itziger · 12-10-2017 6:06am

Enduro wrote: »

Just to back that up... I regularly run 5+ hours two days in a row. It's only on hot summer days that I'd take any water whilst running, or even beforehand. I've got a suspicion that you can train yourself to need less water (the usual stress->adapt pattern), but there's no science to back that up that I've found.

Enduro, I'd say you could be right. But as you know, there are a lot of people here who haven't been doing that and wouldn't want to start implementing it on this week's Long Run!

Providing water 'stops' in 5 and 10k races, given Ireland's normal weather conditions probably doesn't help.

TFBubendorfer · 12-10-2017 11:38am

Itziger wrote: »

Not taking in water on a training run of 20 miles wouldn't be for everyone. Know thyself, and all that.

Of course there are a lot of runners who wouldn't be comfortable with the idea of running 20 miles without water. I get that. My point was that it doesn't have an impact on recovery, because that's what the OP was asking about specifically.

And it goes without saying that this is applicable to the typical Irish weather. I wouldn't try that in the Mediterranean.

ger664 · 12-10-2017 2:01pm

Itziger wrote: »

Providing water 'stops' in 5 and 10k races, given Ireland's normal weather conditions probably doesn't help.

IAAF Road races Rule 240
8 (b)For all events, water shall be available at suitable intervals
of approximately 5km. For events longer then 10km,
refreshments other than water shall also be made available
at these points

El Caballo · 12-10-2017 8:53pm

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

I haven't taken in in any water during a training run for the last 10 years, and that includes plenty of runs of 20 miles or longer.

It has no impact on recovery whatsoever.

I'd have to doubt that last point. My calves for instance have pretty much bothered me since the first day I ever put on a pair of runners. Probably one of the best things I've found to help alleviate that is to be well hydrated as my muscles feel much more lubricated and subtle during a run, if I go out mildly dehydrated, I know it straight away as my calves feel like concrete and I'll wake up with dead legs or DOMS after slogging through a dehydrated run.

Water is also hugely important in carrying nutrients like protein around the body so as you are dehydrating on the long run, you have less nutrients available to your organs and muscles which will affect recovery.

Literally everything your body does depends on water and when it comes to recovery and energy, there is nothing that is more important. Even anabolic steroids recovery effects would be hampered by dehydration as the cells need it to benefit. Dehydration also affects your body's ability to use fat as fuel during exercise;), you cannot train your body to adapt to dehydration, it is your blood, tissue, organs, cells and 65% of you. Water is the most valuable thing in your body. It controls everything from performance to recovery to your mood and you will dehydrate on a long run if you are not drinking. Will you die without during a long run? probably not although....Will it affect performance and recovery? The answer is definetely yes to what extent will depend on how dehydrated you get.

Enduro · 12-10-2017 8:58pm

Itziger wrote: »

Enduro, I'd say you could be right. But as you know, there are a lot of people here who haven't been doing that and wouldn't want to start implementing it on this week's Long Run!

Providing water 'stops' in 5 and 10k races, given Ireland's normal weather conditions probably doesn't help.

Unless you've got a big race imminent I wouldn't see why not to do it on this weeks's long run. No heatwave scheduled anyway!

A lot of people would question whether it's a good idea based on information they would have picked up about "needing" X amount of water. But a lot of the science that this advice has been based on has been misinterpreted (fails to account for the amount of water contained in food), and has also been undermined for various reasons (disproven in practice, original research often funded by the likes of the gatorade institute etc.).

And that's before getting into the psychological disadvantages of training in an external dependency (illustrated nicely at the Dublin HM recently).

El Caballo · 12-10-2017 9:00pm

Enduro wrote: »

And that's before getting into the psychological disadvantages of training in an external dependency (illustrated nicely at the Dublin HM recently).

Water is not an external dependency, it is what you are made of.

Enduro · 12-10-2017 9:07pm

El Caballo wrote: »

Water is not an external dependency, it is what you are made of.

Amongst many other things. We don't need a supply of all of them on hand to consume while we're running though, do we?

I presume you get the point that I'm making, which is to train in a dependency on having access to water at unnecessarily shot intervals is a dependency on having access to water at those intervals. In a race context, that is usually an external dependency, unless you want to lug the water around yourself (which some people do, but of course the weight of the water will have an effect on speed). Plenty of tales from the Dublin HM of people at minimum being negatively affected psychologically when the water stations were not available as expected.

El Caballo · 12-10-2017 9:19pm

Enduro wrote: »

Amongst many other things. We don't need a supply of all of them on hand to consume while we're running though, do we?

I presume you get the point that I'm making, which is to train in a dependency on having access to water at unnecessarily shot intervals is a dependency on having access to water at those intervals. In a race context, that is usually an external dependency, unless you want to lug the water around yourself (which some people do, but of course the weight of the water will have an effect on speed). Plenty of tales from the Dublin HM of people at minimum being negatively affected psychologically when the water stations were not available as expected.

Your ability to cherry pick is second to none. One scenario disregarding the thousands of races that go off without a hitch regarding water. I was inferring that I thought your post was down right irresponsible tbh. To deny how important water is and science around it is incredible. You may think that the mind needs the greatest training but without the heart, the mind ceases to exist.

Enduro · 12-10-2017 9:33pm

El Caballo wrote: »

Your ability to cherry pick is second to none. One scenario disregarding the thousands of races that go off without a hitch regarding water. I was inferring that I thought your post was down right irresponsible tbh. To deny how important water is and science around it is incredible.

I'm not cherry picking, I'm illustrating with an obvious recent example. In a running race situation there are plenty of other scenarios to illustrate the disadvantages of unnecessary external dependencies, such as relying on taking on water frequently at aid stations.

You're fooling yourself if you think that there is universal agreement on the science behind hydration in sports. You should read in a bit more. As ever, Tim Noakes is one of the leading renowned sport scientists turning conventional wisdom on its head.

How do you think I'm being irresponsible?

El Caballo · 12-10-2017 9:46pm

Enduro wrote: »

I'm not cherry picking, I'm illustrating with an obvious recent example. In a running race situation there are plenty of other scenarios to illustrate the disadvantages of unnecessary external dependencies, such as relying on taking on water frequently at aid stations.

You're fooling yourself if you think that there is universal agreement on the science behind hydration in sports. You should read in a bit more. As ever, Tim Noakes is one of the leading renowned sport scientists turning conventional wisdom on its head.

How do you think I'm being irresponsible?

Interestingly enough, I have read a bit about Noakes on Hydration and if you want to use Hyponatreamia as a reason as a reason to avoid all water on a 5 hour long run out of fear overhydration, be my guest but you missed the point. just because too much is bad doesn't mean don't take any. Moderation is the key.

Enduro · 12-10-2017 10:00pm

El Caballo wrote: »

Interestingly enough, I have read a bit about Noakes on Hydration and if you want to use Hyponatreamia as a reason as a reason to avoid all water on a 5 hour long run out of fear overhydration, be my guest but you missed the point. just because too much is bad doesn't mean don't take any. Moderation is the key.

Aww come on... did you not understand the key point of waterlogged... Drink to thirst! (not drink in moderation). If you're not thirsty you don't need to drink. It's a simple as that. I don't drink on my long runs for the simple reason that I generally don't need to. Not out of fear of Hyponatreamia, but simply because I'm not thirsty (and there's a training->adaptation rabbit hole to run down into with that one. Whether it's physical or physiological doesn't really matter too much).

Even if you think moderation, as opposed to 4 billion years of evolution, is the key, then what is the definition of moderation? And is there a solid basis for the definition?

I missed your edit about "the heart", and TBH I've no idea what "the heart" has to do with hydration. Are you implying that someone could have heart failure from not drinking during a training run?

El Caballo · 12-10-2017 10:26pm

Enduro wrote: »

Aww come on... did you not understand the key point of waterlogged... Drink to thirst! (not drink in moderation). If you're not thirsty you don't need to drink. It's a simple as that. I don't drink on my long runs for the simple reason that I generally don't need to. Not out of fear of Hyponatreamia, but simply because I'm not thirsty (and there's a training->adaptation rabbit hole to run down into with that one. Whether it's physical or physiological doesn't really matter too much).

I know what he meant, moderation is the word I choose t o define between you and overhydration which would be polar extremes. I find it extremely difficult to believe you do not get thirsty during a 5 hour run. I lose about 4lbs of water weight on a 2 and a half hour run which is about 3% of my bodyweight and I'm not even a heavy sweater. I would imagine you are probably more than double that on your 5 hour runs. 10lbs of water is about 4.5 litres of water. I find it extremely difficult to believe someone can lose that much water and not be thirsty especially someone who doesn't drink that much anyway given you don't feel thirsty during exercise(the most intense part of your day).

My point about the heart was that you should look out for the best interest of your health before a once in a blue moon race scenario.

Singer · 12-10-2017 11:31pm

Successful ultra marathoners probably aren't who most folks should be looking to for hydration info.

I get cranky and irritable after about 2 hours of running without something to drink, gulping down some water or whatever definitely keeps me running better for longer. I don't particularly train myself to not need fuel or hydration when running longer runs, it's not a priority for the distance/standard I'm running at, though the more I run the more it seems my body can do it without much to eat or drink in advance or during a long run. When racing the likes of 10 mile or a half some water definitely helps along the way (though as much to wash my mouth out and throw over my head than actual hydration).

TFBubendorfer · 13-10-2017 9:42am

El Caballo wrote: »

Will you die without during a long run? probably not although....Will it affect performance and recovery? The answer is definetely yes to what extent will depend on how dehydrated you get.

Where do I start with this?

First of all, it's not "probable" that you survive a long run here if you don't drink water, your survival chances are exactly the same as if you took a water bottle with you. No need for bull****.

Secondly, a small level of dehydration during the run itself does not impact on your subsequent recovery. I'm certainly not advocating a constant state of dehydration. I drink water before my run and I drink water after the run, and most importantly I have a bottle of water beside me at my desk so I can drink whenever I want, letting thirst be my guidance, which means a couple of hours without water while running has no impact whatsoever. Your "definetely yes" is just plain wrong.

Enduro is the person with the single best rate of recovery I have ever known, including all the international runners I have ever met. His ability to recover just blows me away. The fact that have manages that despite not drinking during some very long runs should give you a a very big clue if not drinking while running is detrimental or not.

RayCun · 13-10-2017 9:52am

When I was training for my first marathon, I used to stop at a shop almost every long run and buy a bottle of water - usually use it to wash down a gel!

Second marathon I stopped drinking water on runs (and more or less stopped taking gels in training).

I sometimes have a drink before going out in the morning, sometimes don't. I do make sure I have plenty to drink during the day after the run, and in general.

During a race, I take water whenever available, not so much to drink as to splash around to cool myself down, and I'll drink plenty afterwards.

OOnegative · 13-10-2017 10:03am

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

Enduro is the person with the single best rate of recovery I have ever known, including all the international runners I have ever met. His ability to recover just blows me away. The fact that have manages that despite not drinking during some very long runs should give you a a very big clue if not drinking while running is detrimental or not.

Yeah but Enduro is a freak of nature(compliment not an insult) he is not the norm hence he is so successful at what he does. Some people will need water on a long run some won't, everyone is different. I for one need water after about 90 mins or so of running as I sweat considerably more than most regardless of weather conditions. Each to there own, the no water thing isn't for everyone.

TFBubendorfer · 13-10-2017 10:17am

Singer wrote: »

Successful ultra marathoners probably aren't who most folks should be looking to for hydration info.

Maybe you're right but there's two ways of looking at this:

1: Successful ultra marathoners are freaks of nature who are just different and therefore their experiences are not applicable to the rest of us

2: Successful ultra marathoners have managed to figure out that a lot of generally accepted info is just plain wrong, be it hydration during running / if or how much you have eat before a run / how often you need to change your shoes / how to deal with injuries / and plenty more

Testosterscone · 13-10-2017 10:25am

Singer wrote: »

. I don't particularly train myself to not need fuel or hydration when running longer runs, it's not a priority for the distance/standard I'm running at, though the more I run the more it seems my body can do it without much to eat or drink in advance or during a long run. When racing the likes of 10 mile or a half some water definitely helps along the way (though as much to wash my mouth out and throw over my head than actual hydration).

For me this post has hit the nail on the head and covers two key points, intensity and specificity

If you are for marathon or below you are dealing with Heart rates a higher rate where nutrient transport and blood viscosity could play a more important role (could being operative word as I haven't looked into the science behind this coming from this angle I think ever and haven't had my morning coffee yet to start looking)

The other thing is specificity in ultra runners and adapting to specific stress out on body (in particular gastrointestinal) where blood viscosity could actually be of benefit moreso that marathon runners or below who would not be running long enough to put they body under these particular stresses

This could also impact why some people see speed ultra running (events under 100 mile) as almost a completely different sport to the multi day events etc.

This however is just musing trying to take a different approach on this debate which can pop up frequent enough here.

Annie get your Run · 13-10-2017 10:41am

Testosterscone wrote: »

and haven't had my morning coffee yet

I think you might not be the only one!!!!

This is a really interesting discussion. I was about to agree that both Enduro and Thomas are exceptional but this makes sense too.

2: Successful ultra marathoners have managed to figure out that a lot of generally accepted info is just plain wrong, be it hydration during running / if or how much you have eat before a run / how often you need to change your shoes / how to deal with injuries / and plenty more

I do think that as our running 'careers' go on we learn more about ourselves and what our bodies can handle and while advice here is often invaluable, many times the best way to learn is by your own trial and error (maybe taking that advice into account). I know if it's hot/humid I need to drink because I'm usually very thirsty, and I sweat a lot when I run too, but I don't worry too much about it and I certainly don't rely on water stations in a race any more as you just don't know if they'll have run out. I prefer to make sure I've hydrated properly in the run up to a race and that seems to work well.

Djoucer · 13-10-2017 12:34pm

A lot of successful ultra runners have also had to retire early or are now burnt out.

There's a long list of great ultra runners who burned bright for 2 years only to disappear.

Being successful at ultras doesn't necessarily mean you're right about everything else. There's an argument to be made that ultra runners are awful when it comes to looking after themselves.

For every Enduro, there's someone at home injured.

Tim Noakes is now seen (rightly probably) as an expert but let's not forget, he was wrong in the past.

The medical director of Kona has interesting things to say about hydration. He reckons performance plunges when you're just 2 per cent dehydrates.

There's also plenty of studies to show that thirst is not a reliable indicator.

TFBubendorfer · 13-10-2017 12:56pm

Djoucer wrote: »

A lot of successful ultra runners have also had to retire early or are now burnt out.

There's a long list of great ultra runners who burned bright for 2 years only to disappear.

Being successful at ultras doesn't necessarily mean you're right about everything else. There's an argument to be made that ultra runners are awful when it comes to looking after themselves.

For every Enduro, there's someone at home injured.

Tim Noakes is now seen (rightly probably) as an expert but let's not forget, he was wrong in the past.

The medical director of Kona has interesting things to say about hydration. He reckons performance plunges when you're just 2 per cent dehydrates.

There's also plenty of studies to show that thirst is not a reliable indicator.

A lot of successful athletes are burnt out after 2 years at the top. That includes marathoners, cyclists and plenty of other sports, including football. It's nothing to do with ultra running. It's to do with the fact that being at the very top of any sport is very, very hard and demanding.

As for the 2% dehydration thingy, I find it really hard to believe that this long-debunked myth is still doing the rounds. A very quick google comes back with

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2012/apr/18/how-much-water-drink-marathon:

'Some people can tolerate greater levels of dehydration than others and the oft-quoted 2% dehydration being the threshold for problems isn't borne out in evidence."

http://running.competitor.com/2014/05/nutrition/the-truth-about-dehydration-and-performance_76027:

— It was found that a reduction of body weight of 2.2 percent was not associated with a decrease in performance.
— It isn’t dehydration itself that is responsible for any decrease in performance, but rather not drinking in response to thirst.

http://www.mayonews.ie/living/nurturing/30040-the-hydration-myth:

Conventional wisdom has it that a loss of 2 percent of body weight through dehydration impairs performance. But the problem with conventional wisdom is that it’s often not wisdom at all, and research has shown that a loss of up to 4 percent of body weight is still unlikely to impair exercise performance in a real world scenario.

And that's just the top 3 results from my search.

TFBubendorfer · 13-10-2017 1:25pm

Just to add to the previous post, I guess that this one sentence

Some people can tolerate greater levels of dehydration than others

pretty much explains the entire discussion we're just having, and the differences in opinion

RasTa · 13-10-2017 4:32pm

No football player is burnt out after 2 years unless it's a career ending injury btw

TFBubendorfer · 13-10-2017 11:45pm

RasTa wrote: »

No football player is burnt out after 2 years unless it's a career ending injury btw

Michael Johnson was on my mind when I wrote that. It's not really the main point I was making, though

Testosterscone · 13-10-2017 11:57pm

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

Michael Johnson was on my mind when I wrote that. It's not really the main point I was making, though

???

Michael Johnson made his first Olympic team in 1988 and didn't retire till after his gold medal in 2000

jamule · 14-10-2017 12:07am

Testosterscone wrote: »

???

Michael Johnson made his first Olympic team in 1988 and didn't retire till after his gold medal in 2000

That fast lad doesn't have a monopoly on the name. And a v good example, plenty of lads like him, into a first team for 2/3 yrs, body breaks down and the career just goes nowhere.

TFBubendorfer · 14-10-2017 8:22am

Testosterscone wrote: »

???

Michael Johnson made his first Olympic team in 1988 and didn't retire till after his gold medal in 2000

The other Michael Johnson, of course. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Johnson_(footballer,_born_1988)

Lazare · 14-10-2017 6:34pm

I have a strange thing that happens my right leg from time to time, usually after about 10 miles or so.

It feels like it's locking up in a bent position and that I could trip over it. Not sure if that makes sense but it's the best way I can describe it.

A couple of butt kicks and a bit of shaking it out gets rid of it but still a little concerning nonetheless.

Anyone experience this?

El Caballo · 14-10-2017 7:45pm

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

Where do I start with this?

First of all, it's not "probable" that you survive a long run here if you don't drink water, your survival chances are exactly the same as if you took a water bottle with you. No need for bull****.

No need for this. I don't want to get into a tit for tat on the definition of words with you. I'll give one example here, Heatstroke. Would you say that you are at the same risk of that with or without water during your run?

All that aside as I really wasn't trying to take a survival approach in my post, genuinely. there are far more risks to performance and recovery from not taking water on than there are benefits to not. Outside of the mental aspect of what other benefits are there to not taking on water during the run?

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

Secondly, a small level of dehydration during the run itself does not impact on your subsequent recovery. I'm certainly not advocating a constant state of dehydration. I drink water before my run and I drink water after the run, and most importantly I have a bottle of water beside me at my desk so I can drink whenever I want, letting thirst be my guidance, which means a couple of hours without water while running has no impact whatsoever. Your "definetely yes" is just plain wrong.

I already addressed this point in my previous post.

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

Enduro is the person with the single best rate of recovery I have ever known, including all the international runners I have ever met. His ability to recover just blows me away. The fact that have manages that despite not drinking during some very long runs should give you a a very big clue if not drinking while running is detrimental or not.

Tom Hicks won the Olympic Marathon while taking rat poison and brandy. Did he win despite that or because of it? This is where I get riled up a bit during these debates. I am constantly asked to provide science but the opposite is rarely true as mental crutches and such are brought up. It's like when we have the LCHF diet debate and John Treacy is always brought up as never taking gels during the marathon by pro-LCHF advocates but mention that Kenyans eat a diet of 70% carbs(one of the heaviest carb rich diets on the planet) and take on a huge amount during the race and run almost 6 minutes faster than Treacy and that point is batted away. Different debate but the same trend always develops and there is no winning or fair debate when it comes down to these points because so and so recovers better than so and so etc. Someone could be doing 80% right and 20% wrong and getting by on that and nature vs nurture debate comes into too. The points are irrefutable in their lack of substance.

hot buttered scones · 14-10-2017 8:18pm

For some reason, I can't get the theme tune to "Different Strokes" out of my head.

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