Getting out of the saddle, couple of questions.

Super Freak · 23-09-2009 10:16pm #1

Hi again,

I'm starting to get out of the saddle a little on my rides now that I am getting a little fitter. I find it great on for short climbs (I'm talking small hills here, not mountains).

I can get over the climbs a lot quicker and it seems to relieve some strain from my lower back and helps to get the blood flowing again in my legs. My lungs don't thank me though:pac: But I guess I am using it as a type of interval training.

Questions....
Changing gear.
Is it ok to shift up and down on the casette while standing? I'm thinking that it puts undue wear on the drivetrain. Would I be better off just briefly sitting down, going up or sown a cog and getting up again?
Cadeance.
I can find lots of info on cadeance, but none on cadeance while standing. It's obviously a lot slower than when seated. Do I go with what's comfortable for me or is there any tips?
Rocking.
I seem to find it a little easier if I make a concious effort to rock the bike from side to side. I'm not talking about what you might see when the pros are sprinting, but a definite over and back. I find this seems to relieve some of the strain on my arms...Am I going mad??

If anyone has any other tips for getting out of the seat lets hear them.

Kieran

Mr. Skeffington · 23-09-2009 10:30pm

Hi Superfreak,

When you get out of the saddle its a little bit more hard work and your heartrate will increase a little. It is good to get out of the saddle at times during your spin to relieve pressure on your behind.

Its not a problem changing gear on climbs no need to sit back in the saddle for a gear change.

Cadence usually drops when you get out of the saddle, go with whatever is comfortable for you, typically 100 - 110 rpm on flat is the norm, standing on a climb I feel comfortable with a cadence of 70 - 80 rpm.

Skeff

Quigs Snr · 23-09-2009 10:34pm

Its a case of whatever works for you. Theres all sorts of articles out there which tell you what to do, I don't bother with any of them. Technically I should sit and spin up short hills if I believe everything I read, instead I make it a gear or two harder, stand up, let rip, throw the bike around if I want. It works for me. Shifting whilst standing is not ideal I reckon but good gear systems can take it, quite frankly theres nearly always an attack on a hill in every race I have ever been in, so if you have to jump on to cover the move and knock it up a few gears in the process then I think thats what the gears are for, that being said I tend to softpedal over the top of the pedal stroke for half a stroke to make it easier on the drivetrain.

Lumen · 23-09-2009 11:43pm

As a general rule, fatties tend to sit and skinnies tend to stand. This is because when standing you're moving your bodyweight around more, which takes proportionately more energy if you're heavier.

DirkVoodoo · 24-09-2009 12:02am

Yeah your legs are carrying all of your weight as you push each stroke, rather than the saddle helping out.

You will tire quicker over a long climb, but some people prefer being able to develop a "Lance like" rhythm by dancing on the pedals.

For very steep climbs, it helps to hunch forward with your ass sticking out a big, rather than straight up, as completely unweighting the back wheel can cause it to squirm a bit.

DirkVoodoo · 24-09-2009 12:05am

Super Freak wrote: »

Rocking.
I seem to find it a little easier if I make a concious effort to rock the bike from side to side. I'm not talking about what you might see when the pros are sprinting, but a definite over and back. I find this seems to relieve some of the strain on my arms...Am I going mad??

As for the rocking, I'm a fan of this and a little seems to be ok, but it's important to try and keep your upper body nice and relaxed so you are not wasting energy that could be better spent on the pedals, i.e. let the bike oscillate with your pedalling, but don't tense your arms and yank the bike from side to side.

Morrisseeee · 24-09-2012 2:17pm

Sorry for the resurrection, but it kinda ties into my next Q, a Gilbert & Vuelta inspired Q:

How long (or what distance) can you climb 'out of the saddle' on a steepish gradient (>7%) while 'giving it some welly' ?

I've never really tested myself, but just going on memory from short sharp climbs, I think 600/700m is probably my range, after that my quads/calves are screaming "stop ffs, sit down, find the granny & spin"

Lumen · 24-09-2012 2:32pm

Morrisseeee wrote: »

How long (or what distance) can you climb 'out of the saddle' on a steepish gradient (>7%) while 'giving it some welly' ?

I don't think climbing out of the saddle is really much different to walking up stairs. In both cases you're using alternate legs to lift your bodyweight.

How long can you climb stairs before stopping for a rest?

Does that comparison make you feel better about yourself? :pac:

Morrisseeee · 24-09-2012 3:16pm

Lumen wrote: »

Q1: How long can you climb stairs before stopping for a rest?

Q2: Does that comparison make you feel better about yourself? :pac:

A1: lets stay on topic here

A2: does that mean I'm better than you 'out of the saddle' ?

Lusk Doyle · 24-09-2012 3:18pm

Lumen wrote: »

Morrisseeee wrote: »

How long (or what distance) can you climb 'out of the saddle' on a steepish gradient (>7%) while 'giving it some welly' ?

I don't think climbing out of the saddle is really much different to walking up stairs. In both cases you're using alternate legs to lift your bodyweight.

Ah, but what if you use the old "push forward and down with one leg while at the same time pulling backwards and up with the other trick"?!? You are using both simultaneously then.

Lumen · 24-09-2012 3:22pm

Morrisseeee wrote: »

lets stay on topic here

I read somewhere that if you can walk up stairs or get out of a chair unaided, you have enough strength for cycling, and everything else is gearing and aerobic fitness.

When I'm struggling up a hill I try and remember that it's easier than walking up stairs.

Lumen · 24-09-2012 3:23pm

Lusk Doyle wrote: »

Ah, but what if you use the old "push forward and down with one leg while at the same time pulling backwards and up with the other trick"?!? You are using both simultaneously then.

Try cycling with one leg and see how much your "pulling up" awesomeness helps.

Lusk Doyle · 24-09-2012 3:26pm

Lumen wrote: »

Lusk Doyle wrote: »

Ah, but what if you use the old "push forward and down with one leg while at the same time pulling backwards and up with the other trick"?!? You are using both simultaneously then.

Try cycling with one leg and see how much your "pulling up" awesomeness helps.

Ok!

On an unrelated topic - are you doing the sportif on Sunday with us?

Lumen · 24-09-2012 3:47pm

Lusk Doyle wrote: »

Ok!

On an unrelated topic - are you doing the sportif on Sunday with us?

The Swords Sportive that's actually a race? No. I'm doing a charity cycle on Saturday and then retiring from 'sport' to spend more time with my family.

Idunnowho · 24-09-2012 4:09pm

Super Freak wrote: »

Hi again,

Questions....
Changing gear.
Is it ok to shift up and down on the casette while standing? I'm thinking that it puts undue wear on the drivetrain. Would I be better off just briefly sitting down, going up or sown a cog and getting up again?
Cadeance.
I can find lots of info on cadeance, but none on cadeance while standing. It's obviously a lot slower than when seated. Do I go with what's comfortable for me or is there any tips?
Rocking.
I seem to find it a little easier if I make a concious effort to rock the bike from side to side. I'm not talking about what you might see when the pros are sprinting, but a definite over and back. I find this seems to relieve some of the strain on my arms...Am I going mad??

If anyone has any other tips for getting out of the seat lets hear them.

Kieran

Changing Gear: You should still aim to 'clutch' while changing gear out of the saddle. A well timed quarter turn soft pedal revolution will always help with changing gears. If out of the saddle at the time you can lean forward and put a bit more weight on the hoods to assist this process.

Cadence: I find that no real reason for cadence tp change (unless your attacking) but maybe thats subjective... if you are out of the saddle to get over a hump then you want just a temporary increase in pace or effort - in general this means dropping one gear to maintain the same cadence but gaining a little more output. If you are doing little intervals or to really attack then drop 2 gears when out of the saddle for a 30-60 sec effort but keep the cadence >90.

Rocking: As stated its best to have the bike rock but not the body. There's some sweet footage of Cav in a sprint finish with the bike all over the place but his upper body is relatively stable.

Lusk Doyle · 24-09-2012 4:12pm

Lumen wrote: »

Lusk Doyle wrote: »

Ok!

On an unrelated topic - are you doing the sportif on Sunday with us?

The Swords Sportive that's actually a race? No. I'm doing a charity cycle on Saturday and then retiring from 'sport' to spend more time with my family.

I can leave the first aid kit at home so

Surveyor11 · 24-09-2012 4:12pm

For what it's worth, here's my two cents - I'm a recreational cyclist who doesn't race. And I must ge a fatty so - although I slimmed down to about 13.5 stones for the Etape this year.

I did a bit of research into hill climbing technique, and found that staying seated for as long as possible was better for me - it uses less energy than standing (some say it can use up to 20% more energy) and I found you could concentrate on cadence better when seated. I tend to move the rear back a bit, engaging the glutes and hamstrings more.

Standing for me is only really for a break, so on a long climb, I stay seated for as long as I can. Maybe every ten minutes of so I stand up on a longer climb, but more to stretch the legs a bit rather than gaining more power / pace. You need to be a lot fitter IMHO to climb while standing. But 'rocking' certainly worked for me - rather than just pushing straight down, using your (ample in my case!) weight to assist.

Getting out of the saddle, couple of questions.

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