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Tenant pocketed rent allowance

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    #32
    Pawwed Rig
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 22,306 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    Unfortunately not. It is a slow process that needs to go through official channels. Noone will help you as you are the 'greedy landlord' and your experience does not fit the prevalent narrative. As above you need to be careful here as LLs have been hit with 5 figure fines for illegal eviction.
    You could offer her cash to go quietly? I would rather burn my own house down rather than do that though.
    I would say go back to the solicitor unfortunately


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    #33
    martinr5232
    Registered Users Posts: 2,298 ✭✭✭martinr5232


    I would say get a proper solicitor with experience of cases like this it could be a lot cheaper in the long run.


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    #34
    dubrov
    Registered Users Posts: 3,556 ✭✭✭dubrov


    The sad thing is that there are two major issues still facing the rental market

    1) Timely eviction for non-payment of rent (I am talking about 3 months here rather than the current 1 Year+)
    2) Security of tenancy for tenants

    FG have shown little appetite to resolve either of the above and if they don't do it, I doubt anyone will


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    #35
    Irish_peppa
    Registered Users Posts: 653 ✭✭✭Irish_peppa


    handlemaster wrote: »
    That's the way to do it. Lots of non landlords on here talking about the business of landlords without a any clue of what it's really like.

    I had years of lodgers not paying on time, days, weeks. They were constantly messing up my cash flow commitments very frustrating. It became nuts so I started adding a clause 2 years ago to my licence that payments made after XX date would be subject to a 10 Euro daily fee to cover my banking expense late fees. So if your late with the rent No Problem at all! . Just don;t forget the late fee ;) Alas I hear you say what about the person that says "Ill be 3 weeks late with the rent dont worry ill pay the 200 or so penalty no problem :cool:
    Also clause (after 7 days of no payment of rent and penalty fees the licence will be deemed null and void and the lodger must immediately vacate.

    The upshot: Late rents have decreased by 95% I kid you not
    I was tested here and there but i stuck to my guns.
    Enforced substantial late fee
    :cool:


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    #36
    Gooseygoo
    Registered Users Posts: 13 ✭Gooseygoo


    Irish_peppa wrote: »
    I had years of lodgers not paying on time, days, weeks. They were constantly messing up my cash flow commitments very frustrating. It became nuts so I started adding a clause 2 years ago to my licence that payments made after XX date would be subject to a 10 Euro daily fee to cover my banking expense late fees. So if your late with the rent No Problem at all! . Just don;t forget the late fee ;) Alas I hear you say what about the person that says "Ill be 3 weeks late with the rent dont worry ill pay the 200 or so penalty no problem :cool:
    Also clause (after 7 days of no payment of rent and penalty fees the licence will be deemed null and void and the lodger must immediately vacate.

    The upshot: Late rents have decreased by 95% I kid you not
    I was tested here and there but i stuck to my guns.
    Enforced substantial late fee
    :cool:
    Wow, that’s the way to do it. Glad it’s working out. I’ll probably sell if it’s out of negative equity, twil be by the time she’s out I’d say. Horrible business. Not yet one canvasser to the door to allow me vent.
    Thanks , landlords need to protect themselves. I wouldn’t wish my plight on anyone.


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    #37
    pwurple
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,449 ✭✭✭✭pwurple


    Sounds like a nightmare OP, sorry this has happened to you

    I wonder could you turn off the services the day after vacancy date as a precaution. Water and power. House should be empty then anyway. I turn off the water in a vacant property for flooding prevention. Check with solicitor though as I have not had the experience where someone might still be there.

    Also, as you are intimidated by her, find an agent to act on your behalf.


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    #38
    theteal
    Registered Users Posts: 7,593 ✭✭✭theteal


    OP, she knows the system. She's waiting for an envelope from you and that's the quickest and possibly cheapest way you'll be rid of her.


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    #39
    Gooseygoo
    Registered Users Posts: 13 ✭Gooseygoo


    pwurple wrote: »
    Sounds like a nightmare OP, sorry this has happened to you

    I wonder could you turn off the services the day after vacancy date as a precaution. Water and power. House should be empty then anyway. I turn off the water in a vacant property for flooding prevention. Check with solicitor though as I have not had the experience where someone

    Also, as you are intimidated by her, find an agent to act on your behalf.

    Great idea, will look into it. Thanks ...if something as simple as that worked, without breaking the law, now that would be sweet.


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    #40
    Gooseygoo
    Registered Users Posts: 13 ✭Gooseygoo


    theteal wrote: »
    OP, she knows the system. She's waiting for an envelope from you and that's the quickest and possibly cheapest way you'll be rid of her.
    It’s so tempting, I might be driven to it but right now I don’t want her to win....even though she has already and will continue to with everything she does in life.


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    #41
    Irish_peppa
    Registered Users Posts: 653 ✭✭✭Irish_peppa


    Gooseygoo wrote: »
    It’s so tempting, I might be driven to it but right now I don’t want her to win....even though she has already and will continue to with everything she does in life.

    I honestly couldnt on principal. :D


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    #42
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users Posts: 9,500 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    Gooseygoo wrote: »
    Great idea, will look into it. Thanks ...if something as simple as that worked, without breaking the law, now that would be sweet.

    Don't do that, you'll be in breech.


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    #43
    Gooseygoo
    Registered Users Posts: 13 ✭Gooseygoo


    runawaybishop wrote: »
    Don't do that, you'll be in breech.
    Darn. Thought it was too easy alright. Any other ideas?!!!


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    #44
    Gooseygoo
    Registered Users Posts: 13 ✭Gooseygoo


    Gooseygoo wrote: »
    Wow, that’s the way to do it. Glad it’s working out. I’ll probably sell if it’s out of negative equity, twil be by the time she’s out I’d say. Horrible business. Not yet one canvasser to the door to allow me vent.
    Thanks , landlords need to protect themselves. I wouldn’t wish my plight on anyone.

    I’m wondering, what will I achieve at the end of all this? It is a struggle to pay that mortgage and I could be faced with this for a considerable length of time. Only renting myself and all hope of applying for a mortgage for my own family home is gone for as long as I’m dealing with this. It’s not like she’ll face any punishment or be forced to repay anything. Should I put my pride aside, come up with the money to give her her deposit back if she agrees to leave? And could I stipulate leave next week rather than eviction date in 1 months time? Could all this jeopardise the eviction process if it didn’t work according to plan? I’m sure I’m making a lot of fellow landlords angry by suggesting this, but I’ve a young family and she’s consumed my life these past 4 years in the most terrible way. Surely it’s the cheapest option, and the healthiest regarding stress levels.


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    #45
    Caranica
    Registered Users Posts: 10,032 ✭✭✭✭Caranica


    Even if you pay her off she could (and probably would) come back at you for an illegal eviction. Do this by the book, painful and all as that will be.


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    #46
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Mod Note

    Any hints or suggestions of anything illegal will result in an immediate card and/or ban.


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    #47
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,364 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    The only quick eviction notice is the anti-social notice which is 7 days. The problem is they warn you that a high burden of proof is required. If neighbours make complaints about her then you have to act on them. Really feels like a trap. Neighbour complains you act on it and then the neighbour won't go to court if they claim illegal/unfounded eviction.


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    #48
    Gooseygoo
    Registered Users Posts: 13 ✭Gooseygoo


    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    The only quick eviction notice is the anti-social notice which is 7 days. The problem is they warn you that a high burden of proof is required. If neighbours make complaints about her then you have to act on them. Really feels like a trap. Neighbour complains you act on it and then the neighbour won't go to court if they claim illegal/unfounded eviction.
    Thanks, but neighbour is intimidated too. He’s just trying to keep his head down. Appreciate the hel though.


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    #49
    spaceHopper
    Registered Users Posts: 3,970 ✭✭✭spaceHopper


    Gooseygoo wrote: »
    Thanks, but neighbour is intimidated too. He’s just trying to keep his head down. Appreciate the hel though.

    You do know that you can evict a tenant quicker on grounds of anti social behavior can you document this and go that route. Wound the neighbor help out, you would need strong evidence though. Can you get a security company to come with you while you serve notice


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    #50
    Millionaire only not
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,625 ✭✭✭Millionaire only not


    Gooseygoo wrote: »
    Great idea, will look into it. Thanks ...if something as simple as that worked, without breaking the law, now that would be sweet.

    Esb won’t turn it off ! I had numerous incidents but cutting power is not an option!
    Cutting water well , toilets and stuff u know where that leads. !
    It’s a nightmare that lasts a lot longer than 1 night believe u me !
    U have to be a tough nut for the rental game , take no abuse of any description!
    I wasn’t tough enough for it , add in all your taxes , repairs and you’ll soon see it’s a mugs game !


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    #51
    Pawwed Rig
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 22,306 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    spaceHopper wrote: »
    You do know that you can evict a tenant quicker on grounds of anti social behavior can you document this and go that route. Wound the neighbor help out, you would need strong evidence though. Can you get a security company to come with you while you serve notice

    There is a high bar to prove antisocial behaviour on the 7 day rule and it would want to be over a significant period of time. You could not evict someone for a one of party for example and would want to demonstrate that you had made good attempt to resolve the issue.

    The guy already has grounds for eviction anyway for the non payment of rent. He doesn't need another reason.


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    #52
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Gooseygoo wrote: »
    This forum is such an eye opener. When I found out she was pocketing the rent allowance yesterday, I immediately thought ‘now I’ve got her’ when in fact it makes no difference. At least I know not to waste time on that. I have heard of gardai chasing rent arrears after landlords winning court cases and tenants on welfare trying to do a runner(even if it’s just 20/week). Wishful thinking??? What can I say to make her leave? How can I make her see it’s the best option for her. RTB tribunal will take months and even at that she’ll suit herself. And no, she has no assets.
    Threatening court? Does all this affect her on the housing list? She is known to gardai so is any of this criminal? What can I say to make her leave my life?!!!!!

    What about the rent book? Who was signing it to record payment of said rent allowance for you? An agent?

    Ask for the rent book back.

    Op if you ask for the rent book ...which you are allowed to see....you should have proof of fraud..


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    #53
    GGTrek
    Registered Users Posts: 834 ✭✭✭GGTrek


    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    The only quick eviction notice is the anti-social notice which is 7 days. The problem is they warn you that a high burden of proof is required. If neighbours make complaints about her then you have to act on them. Really feels like a trap. Neighbour complains you act on it and then the neighbour won't go to court if they claim illegal/unfounded eviction.
    I am sorry Ray, but this is bad advice from a legal point of view. The 7 days notice requires criminal standard proof for what are essentially criminal offences committed at the property (in order to shorten a multi month process by just a max of 5 weeks). The OP is very unlikely to be able to provide such standard of evidence and RTB case will fail and will waste even (much) more time. Proof of non payment of rent is instead very easy to show and even though it takes 5 weeks more to take to RTB there is no escape for the wayward tenant.


    Should the OP have solid proof of serious criminal offences committed by the tenant at the property it would be much more efficient to report the tenant to Garda, the tenant would be arrested and kicked out of the property by police force, after 28 days of property "vacated"(reason does not matter:D) and no payment of rent, the owner can enter the property (with witness) without RTB process, change the locks and take back possession:
    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2004/act/27/enacted/en/print#sec37


    This is a very extreme case and I do not think it applies to the OP, which at maximum could prove a breach of the peace (which requires same timeline of an arrears notice but with huge evidence effort).


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    #54
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Gooseygoo wrote: »
    Thanks. Any tips on getting her out? She’s twice the size of me, history of violence and instability, so incredibly rough and knows how to play the system. Eviction date is 1st March....repeated phone calls? Threaten her with court for rent arrears and solicitors fees(I would go all the way if it resulted in causing her even just a morsel of pain) . I’m really on my own with this. My solicitor has wasted 2 months before sending out notices, thought he’d help fight my battle but it really is every man for himself. Worst experience of my life.

    RTB circuit court and possession /determination orders ....nightmare

    How long is the lease (as in when is she due a renewal?) and when are you due a rent hike?

    Offering cash for keys is an option ....although you could get done over there by her too.


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    #55
    Gasherbraun
    Registered Users Posts: 312 ✭✭Gasherbraun


    spaceHopper wrote: »
    You do know that you can evict a tenant quicker on grounds of anti social behavior can you document this and go that route. Wound the neighbor help out, you would need strong evidence though. Can you get a security company to come with you while you serve notice

    The safer route is non payment since this is very clearly supported by evidence.

    Also if the OP is already into the process of terminating for rent arrears this would still remain the quicker route. With tenants like these you are almost certain to go down the tribunal / court enforcement route and the main challenge is getting there as quickly as possible to mitigate your losses.


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    #56
    Gooseygoo
    Registered Users Posts: 13 ✭Gooseygoo


    Gasherbraun wrote: »
    The safer route is non payment since this is very clearly supported by evidence.

    Also if the OP is already into the process of terminating for rent arrears this would still remain the quicker route. With tenants like these you are almost certain to go down the tribunal / court enforcement route and the main challenge is getting there as quickly as possible to mitigate your losses.
    With eviction date 1st March, any advice on whether or not to make contact with the tenant before this....regarding what her intentions are, (will she vacate?) and should I be present to take the keys from her or ask her to just close out the door....or should I lie low and see if she leaves?


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    #57
    handlemaster
    Registered Users Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    Gooseygoo wrote: »
    With eviction date 1st March, any advice on whether or not to make contact with the tenant before this....regarding what her intentions are, (will she vacate?) and should I be present to take the keys from her or ask her to just close out the door....or should I lie low and see if she leaves?


    I wouldn't. The tenants intentions have already been made clear.


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    #58
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,295 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    Gooseygoo wrote: »
    With eviction date 1st March, any advice on whether or not to make contact with the tenant before this....regarding what her intentions are, (will she vacate?) and should I be present to take the keys from her or ask her to just close out the door....or should I lie low and see if she leaves?
    Continue the process as if she hasn't left.


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