Friend Hap was suspended for not paying it

26-01-2020 8:39pm #1

So I don’t know if anyone remembers a few months I posted on here about that myself and my partner are sharing an apparent with a friend of ours and how we think he is abusing it as in having his boyfriend over all for time and even sometimes sleeping over for 4 days a week to us subbing his bills till the end of month to help him out leaving myself out of pocket.

Well I’m back again because guess what he hasn’t paid its €28 contribution to the council to get hap in 2 months and got the shock of my life on Friday when my landlady was banging down the door and saying you haven’t been paying your HAP to which I said I haven’t got a clue what your talking about and showed it my hap statements and we always pay as if we have a standing order and to our horror he hasn’t and his HAP is suspended.

Our rent is €950 and my partner and I pay €634 and our friend pays the rest but now it’s not gonna happen and when we ask why he won’t pay the €28 every week all he is interested in is drinking it’s gotten out of hand now and the rent is due on Wednesday, are you we going to be homeless now as we can’t afford to pay his share and we definitely don’t want to share with a stranger. We are so scared we don’t know why to do we started ringing around about storage for our stuff.

If our landlady evicted him she’s not going to let us stay getting €634 I haven’t slept since Friday night. I hate him right now and is not our friend anymore it’s a lousy €28 to keep a roof over our heads.

I don’t know what to do now I just want to cry

MissShihTzu · 26-01-2020 11:06pm

Is the lease in all your names?

Can you talk to the landlady and find out exactly what happened and where you stand? Will she allow you to stay if you agree to take over the lease and pay the arrears bit by bit?

Why haven't you spoken to the landlady about the fact your friend wasn't paying the HAP before letting matters get to this stage?

Caranica · 26-01-2020 11:08pm

You can't be evicted on Wednesday. Your landlady needs to issue a 14 day notice of arrears and if payment isn't received then she needs to serve a 28 day eviction notice so stop panicking.

Secondly your landlady has breached gdpr by showing you paperwork regarding your housemate's finances.

I think this thread might get more helpful replies in accommodation and property where some people know all about tenancy rights and issues.

26-01-2020 11:42pm

MissShihTzu wrote: »

Is the lease in all your names?

Can you talk to the landlady and find out exactly what happened and where you stand? Will she allow you to stay if you agree to take over the lease and pay the arrears bit by bit?

Why haven't you spoken to the landlady about the fact your friend wasn't paying the HAP before letting matters get to this stage?

We only found out on Friday he wasn’t paying it we are so angry

ILoveYourVibes · 27-01-2020 1:23am

Caranica wrote: »

You can't be evicted on Wednesday. Your landlady needs to issue a 14 day notice of arrears and if payment isn't received then she needs to serve a 28 day eviction notice so stop panicking.

Secondly your landlady has breached gdpr by showing you paperwork regarding your housemate's finances.

I think this thread might get more helpful replies in accommodation and property where some people know all about tenancy rights and issues.

Yes but the real issue is the guys hap is gone and they won't share with a stranger so basically in six weeks they are out ...

OP i am going to level with you ..your landlady will have NO issues finding new tenants ....when she advertises HUNDREDS of people will apply.

Now she can't evict you without giving you 14 days to make up for arrears and then she has to five you a further 28 days to move.

Legally you have 2 weeks op to find the money.

After that she has to give you four weeks from the end of the 14 days to move.

You can offer to find another tenant for her and pay the 600 he owes her.

If you can find the 600 and offer her it she might let you two stay if you agree to a stranger moving in.

She has the upper hand in this market though.

I know she has to give you 6 weeks...but its only 2 of those weeks you have an opportunity to change her position if you know what i mean. After 14 days she is legally entitled to end the tenancy then giving you 28 days.

I would talk to her. Offer to get someone else in. Tell her he was the trouble maker. Say you will take care of the place be diligent with rent etc.

N.B
Plus you are still supposed to pay the rent in full until the tenancy ends ...so that means even though he has no hap ....you still owe full rent inc arrears until you leave for the 6 weeks ..and that debt will follow you.

The above is something to think about.

LegacyUser · 27-01-2020 9:43am

What exactly is the rental agreement you have? If you both have HAP and are paying individually do you have different leases or are you all on the same lease? Its very odd to have two different HAP payments but only one lease and if that is the case then the landlords issue is with the flatmate not you. You may have no choice with the LL renting his room to a stranger unless you can come to an agreement that you find a replacement.

wiggle16 · 27-01-2020 12:11pm

Is the lease in all your names OP? Until you answer that no one is going to be able to advise properly because it makes all the difference in this situation.

wiggle16 · 27-01-2020 12:16pm

Mod:

I'm going to move this thread to A&P as it's not really an interpersonal issue - the lad is a sh*thead and there's not going to be any debate on that. You need practical advice, but you do need to tell us how many names are on the lease.

Moved to A&P. New charter applies.

Cuddlesworth · 27-01-2020 12:46pm

Deleted User wrote: »

If our landlady evicted him she’s not going to let us stay getting €634 I haven’t slept since Friday night. I hate him right now and is not our friend anymore it’s a lousy €28 to keep a roof over our heads.

I don’t know what to do now I just want to cry

Step number one is calm down.

While its a **** situation for landlords, the process of eviction is a long complicated drawn out procedure. Your not out by Wednesday, if you were out by this date next year I'd be surprised.

So what exactly is your HAP situation? Do you both have a seperate lease with the landlord? Is it a joint lease with seperate payments? Is it your HAP arrangement, with your fried supposed to be helping off the books?

27-01-2020 3:25pm

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Step number one is calm down.

While its a **** situation for landlords, the process of eviction is a long complicated drawn out procedure. Your not out by Wednesday, if you were out by this date next year I'd be surprised.

So what exactly is your HAP situation? Do you both have a seperate lease with the landlord? Is it a joint lease with seperate payments? Is it your HAP arrangement, with your fried supposed to be helping off the books?

Council pay 3 separate payments but I think we’re on the one contract in the house I need to find out

Cuddlesworth · 27-01-2020 4:41pm

Find out, usually the council views each HAP tennant as a separate lease in the case of house shares but they have been changing the rules frequently.

Which means your friend not paying, in the legal sense, is your friends problem.

Ray Palmer · 27-01-2020 5:02pm

And people always say that there are no disadvantages to renting to people on rent allowance or HAP. Here is what happens and another thread has a tenant pocketing the rent payments.

OP this is not your problem but your friends. HAP agreements are individual agreements not the entire property. You will not be homeless.

spaceHopper · 27-01-2020 6:15pm

Can you pay the 28 x 2 arrears to get his hap reinstated and get the arrears covered, that buys you rime to sort him out I'd suggest you tell him to setup a standing order or move out. Would hap cover the full place between the two of you. So that you can send him on his way.

Other wise you either find somewhere new or give getting a new person in a go. Worst case you don't like them and either you kick them out or you move. Given how things are you have nothing to lose. And you never know it could work out well.

27-01-2020 6:24pm

Ray Palmer wrote: »

And people always say that there are no disadvantages to renting to people on rent allowance or HAP. Here is what happens and another thread has a tenant pocketing the rent payments.

OP this is not your problem but your friends. HAP agreements are individual agreements not the entire property. You will not be homeless.

Got off the phone with the council his hap payment won’t be paid we are all down as separate on hap but tenancy landlord contract we are as we all moved into together. She could evict him and move a stranger in we don’t want this and we don’t know anyone we know looking for a place or live and can’t afford to pay the rest ourselves so looks like we will be homeless.

His hap payment is suspended for this month has to pay the €310 himself to the landlady but if he clears all his payment of €154 he law’s plus paying his €28 weekly by February 14th he will be back on HAP and the landlady will get a double payment for January and February and then maybe ask her to refund the money he paid on January as she got a double but there is no chance she will agree to that not a chance.

How can people be so stupid

afkasurfjunkie · 27-01-2020 6:57pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Got off the phone with the council his hap payment won’t be paid we are all down as separate on hap but tenancy landlord contract we are as we all moved into together. She could evict him and move a stranger in we don’t want this and we don’t know anyone we know looking for a place or live and can’t afford to pay the rest ourselves so looks like we will be homeless.

His hap payment is suspended for this month has to pay the €310 himself to the landlady but if he clears all his payment of €154 he law’s plus paying his €28 weekly by February 14th he will be back on HAP and the landlady will get a double payment for January and February and then maybe ask her to refund the money he paid on January as she got a double but there is no chance she will agree to that not a chance.

How can people be so stupid

You would rather be homeless than share with a person you don’t know to cover the shortfall. Who’s stupid here again? Throw it up on your Facebook this minute. People would take the hand off you for accommodation in this country at the moment. And be only delighted to pay their way.

27-01-2020 7:01pm

afkasurfjunkie wrote: »

You would rather be homeless than share with a person you don’t know to cover the shortfall. Who’s stupid here again? Throw it up on your Facebook this minute. People would take the hand off you for accommodation in this country at the moment. And be only delighted to pay their way.

My partner wouldn’t feel comfortable sharing with a stranger I wouldn’t mind so much but my partner has server depression and anixety so be nice.

27-01-2020 7:02pm

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Find out, usually the council views each HAP tennant as a separate lease in the case of house shares but they have been changing the rules frequently.

Which means your friend not paying, in the legal sense, is your friends problem.

One of the conditions of HAP that LA’s are very clear about, HAP agreements are between the tenant and the local authority, not between the LA and the LL. so, if the op has a lease along with his friend to rent the property, they are in all likelihood joint and severely liable for rent. The fact that each is in receipt of HAP has no baring on this, HAP is just a method of payment.

27-01-2020 7:16pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

My partner wouldn’t feel comfortable sharing with a stranger I wouldn’t mind so much but my partner has server depression and anixety so be nice.

You need to talk to your friend and make him understand that unless he sorts this out, he is going to be on the street with zero chance of renting again. Unfortunately you have to accept that unless you accept a new co-tenant, or you cover the full rent, you will also be evicted for non payment of rent. If you are joined on the same lease, you are responsible for rent, I suspect your friend knows this and is counting on you paying.

handlemaster · 27-01-2020 7:16pm

The Joy's of HAP and the Joy's of living with friend who will become former friends in time.

Op the question really is will the rent be paid or not ?

If not expect you will be on your ear eventually but fear not the process is all in your favour.

27-01-2020 7:26pm

handlemaster wrote: »

The Joy's of HAP and the Joy's of living with friend who will become former friends in time.

Op the question really is will the rent be paid or not ?

If not expect you will be on your ear eventually but fear not the process is all in your favour.

I’ll know Wednesday if it’s paid or not

the_syco · 27-01-2020 9:54pm

Deleted User wrote: »

My partner wouldn’t feel comfortable sharing with a stranger I wouldn’t mind so much but my partner has server depression and anixety so be nice.

The alternative is sharing a dorm with 14 homeless strangers.

Deleted User wrote: »

if he clears all his payment of €154

If he's drank the €28 away, I'm unsure where the €154 will come from.

27-01-2020 10:24pm

the_syco wrote: »

The alternative is sharing a dorm with 14 homeless strangers.

If he's drank the €28 away, I'm unsure where the €154 will come from.

Can’t afford it the extra rent sadly

The_Conductor · 28-01-2020 9:59am

Hi OP- the position has been broadly outlined in the above posts- but just to reiterate:

1. You are all jointly and severally liable to the landlord to have the rent paid.
2. HAP is just the method of payment- and whether or not HAP is paid does not excuse you from your obligation to pay rent to your landlord.
3. The first step for the landlord is to issue a 14 notice of arrears- during which time you can make good the deficit and all becomes good once more.
Once the 14 days elapses- if the deficit to the landlord is not made good- they then issue you with a 28 day notice of termination on the basis that you are in rent arrears (as in- between you- as you have a joint lease- are in arrears). Once this 28 day notice has issued- its past the time in which you can make good the deficit and regain good standing with the landlord.
4. Don't assume that the landlord can chase anything with the local authority- other than the fact that they are not getting paid, they will not be told anything on GDPR grounds- it is up to the tenants to chase this one.
5. You have a joint lease with the stupid fool who didn't pay their contribution to the local authority- so even if he/she vanishes overnight- you're still liable to the landlord for the outstanding balance- irrespective of whether, or not, your own HAP is in good standing.

Its an incredibly mean and small minded thing your 'friend' has done- he has jeopardised you all.
I'd strongly suggest you liaise with both the local authority and the landlord to see if you can come to some compromise.
In general HAP recipients don't get lumpsum arrears when they mess up like this- so unless your friend has come to some arrangement with the local authority that you're not party to- its safest to assume its not going to happen.

Its an incredibly crap situation to be in- however, in your favour, according to the RTB, the current timescale to issue a final determination in cases of rent arrears is 15 weeks.

One way or the other- I'd be looking for new accommodation- without said 'friend'- as its unlikely that he/she is going to make good the mess they have created.

ILoveYourVibes · 28-01-2020 6:26pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Can’t afford it the extra rent sadly

But you are going to have to cover it anyway.

I don't think you realize this. Even if you move the landlord is entitled to their money.

Whatever happens it has to be covered and you are liable if your lease with the landlord was a joint one.

If you move your mate won't get back on HAP. And if he moves to another place and gets on HAP the HAP won't cover his debt.

Plus new prospective landlords can't legally deny you accommodation because you are on hap but they can ask to see bank records and refs from previous landlords.

I am sure you can read the subtext here.

They will refuse to rent to you 'out of concern its beyond your income or out of concern about your financial stability'. They can refuse you because you have a history of not paying rent.

I would advise you to get things right with your current landlords before you move.

And TBH if your landlord is not willing to give you a chance ..i am wondering if this is the first time she has had an issue with you guys from her perspective.

Always Tired · 28-01-2020 6:34pm

Ray Palmer wrote: »

And people always say that there are no disadvantages to renting to people on rent allowance or HAP. Here is what happens and another thread has a tenant pocketing the rent payments.

OP this is not your problem but your friends. HAP agreements are individual agreements not the entire property. You will not be homeless.

Well you aren't going to find people taking the time to make threads online when everything is going swimmingly, are you? It's only going to happen when there is a problem.

Similar to working in a call centre, people don't ring in to say thanks my service is working fine only when something goes wrong.

28-01-2020 6:57pm

We say him down last night and we had enough as is like a bold child he caved a payd but masked him for the hap card so I can pay his half and he’ll pay me back I’d rather that than landlady not being paid.

Better than nothing and yes I paid the arrears also he’ll pay me back it beret than being homeless

The_Conductor · 28-01-2020 7:08pm

Still have to follow up with the local authority- as if they cut him off (which they have done) they don't automatically reinstate the payment........ He may have to reapply- one way or the other it *has* to be followed up with the local authority- and I wouldn't trust your 'friend' as far as I can throw him...........

Priestess101 · 18-03-2020 5:02pm

Any updates?

And does anyone know why they increased the weekly Homeless HAP rent contributions from paying €20 a week to €23? It's disgusting how the council are increasing rent for people who are officially classed and housed as homeless hap applicants by the state.

Pkiernan · 18-03-2020 5:11pm

Priestess101 wrote: »

Any updates?

And does anyone know why they increased the weekly Homeless HAP rent contributions from paying €20 a week to €23? It's disgusting how the council are increasing rent for people who are officially classed and housed as homeless hap applicants by the state.

A whole 3 euro a week increase!?!?

Priestess101 · 18-03-2020 5:20pm

Pkiernan wrote: »

A whole 3 euro a week increase!?!?

Yes that is correct.
For example, people unable to work assessed at 0 means a week, soley relying on disability allowance payments etc. is a big deal. Every. Cent. Counts.

18-03-2020 6:45pm

Priestess101 wrote: »

And does anyone know why they increased the weekly Homeless HAP rent contributions from paying €20 a week to €23? It's disgusting how the council are increasing rent for people who are officially classed and housed as homeless hap applicants by the state.

Are you trolling? 340,000 working people in Ireland who will lose their jobs this week have FAR bigger issues right now than a 3 euro weekly increase.

Also, If someone is on HAP paying rent it means they are no longer homeless.

18-03-2020 7:22pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Are you trolling? 340,000 working people in Ireland who will lose their jobs this week have FAR bigger issues right now than a 3 euro weekly increase.

Also, If someone is on HAP paying rent it means they are no longer homeless.

Everything is relative.

The_Conductor · 18-03-2020 7:34pm

Dav010 wrote: »

Everything is relative.

+1
We all have a hierarchy of needs- which is dynamic- and as one need is satisfied, we move up the hierarchy tree.
However- you cannot compare one person's perspective with another person's perspective- unless they are at a similar level.
3 Euro might be relatively little to some people- it might be a choice over whether or not to get a coffee on the way into work, or not- whereas for someone else- it could represent food for a day (or longer) and what is a minor enough penance for one person- could have a disproportionately large impact on someone else.

We have possibly over 300,000 people loosing their jobs, possibly temporarily, this week- and falling to EUR203 a week- from which they have to make all their ends meet- where last week they had a multiple of this to pay their bills.

Times are tough- and people are going to have difficulty making their cloth fit their means- its a tough adjustment.

Priestess101 · 18-03-2020 7:44pm

The_Conductor wrote: »

+1
We all have a hierarchy of needs- which is dynamic- and as one need is satisfied, we move up the hierarchy tree.
However- you cannot compare one person's perspective with another person's perspective- unless they are at a similar level.
3 Euro might be relatively little to some people- it might be a choice over whether or not to get a coffee on the way into work, or not- whereas for someone else- it could represent food for a day (or longer) and what is a minor enough penance for one person- could have a disproportionately large impact on someone else.

We have possibly over 300,000 people loosing their jobs, possibly temporarily, this week- and falling to EUR203 a week- from which they have to make all their ends meet- where last week they had a multiple of this to pay their bills.

Times are tough- and people are going to have difficulty making their cloth fit their means- its a tough adjustment.

Thank you for understanding, couldn't of worded it better myself. Kind words from a kind moderator.

18-03-2020 7:44pm

The_Conductor wrote: »

+1
We all have a hierarchy of needs- which is dynamic- and as one need is satisfied, we move up the hierarchy tree.
However- you cannot compare one person's perspective with another person's perspective- unless they are at a similar level.
3 Euro might be relatively little to some people- it might be a choice over whether or not to get a coffee on the way into work, or not- whereas for someone else- it could represent food for a day (or longer) and what is a minor enough penance for one person- could have a disproportionately large impact on someone else.

We have possibly over 300,000 people loosing their jobs, possibly temporarily, this week- and falling to EUR203 a week- from which they have to make all their ends meet- where last week they had a multiple of this to pay their bills.

I work closely with so called homeless people on HAP, believe me most of them are doing ok. The system is a farce and an utter insult to workers who have high rents in this country.

They are doing a hell of a lot better than everyone LOSING jobs this week. Let's have a bit of perspective on this.

18-03-2020 7:48pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I work closely with so called homeless people on HAP, believe me most of them are doing ok. The system is a farce and an utter insult to workers who have high rents in this country.

They are doing a hell of a lot better than everyone LOSING jobs this week. Let's have a bit of perspective on this.

Many on HAP have also been through the trauma of losing a job and/or were unable to get jobs. There should not be a them verses us on this.

The_Conductor · 18-03-2020 7:52pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I work closely with so called homeless people on HAP, believe me most of them are doing ok. The system is a farce and an utter insult to workers who have high rents in this country.

They are doing a hell of a lot better than everyone LOSING jobs this week. Let's have a bit of perspective on this.

Those loosing their jobs this week- are initially going to receive the basic payment of 203 Euro and nothing more, for a period of 6 weeks. The presumption is- at the elapse of 6 weeks, they will either migrate back to their jobs which will have been mothballed rather than no longer exist, or they will migrate onto formal unemployment benefit and have access to other unemployment benefits (both financial and non-financial).

Its a transition period- while we get our heads around what the hell is happening- and how its effects on us, as a country and as a society, have changed to a new 'normal'.

It now looks entirely possible that we may hit a budget deficit of up to 20% over the next 12 months- where once we looked a shoe-in for a surplus of up to 3-4%

We all have new 'norms' that we are going to have to get used to- and its going to be a steep learning curve. Many of those 300,000 who are drawing down their 203 Euro a week for the next 6 weeks- may very well find that they don't have jobs that are going to reappear as circumstances change.

Priestess101 · 18-03-2020 7:59pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I work closely with so called homeless people on HAP, believe me most of them are doing ok. The system is a farce and an utter insult to workers who have high rents in this country.

They are doing a hell of a lot better than everyone LOSING jobs this week. Let's have a bit of perspective on this.

Nice try

Sorry I have never heard such rude remarks from a boards member regarding helping the vulnerable. We all know that everybody is stressed out & struggling immensly to make ends meets, long before this crisis took place actually. Have a little compassion and respect for your fellow man.

Throwing shade on said "vulnerable" people you work with begs to differ if you're really in the right profession. Maybe it won't be so bad losing that job of yours (temporarily) to help you gain that perspective.

Colking · 19-03-2020 9:45am

Priestess101 wrote: »

Throwing shade on said "vulnerable" people you work with begs to differ if you're really in the right profession. Maybe it won't be so bad losing that job of yours (temporarily) to help you gain that perspective.

That's a rather disgusting remark, well below the normal standard of interaction on here.

Priestess101 · 19-03-2020 10:24am

Colking wrote: »

That's a rather disgusting remark, well below the normal standard of interaction on here.

How so?
Are you a friend of this so called homelesss HAP worker claiming that homeless persons housed in accommodation are all just “doing ok”? I can’t tell you right now that you are gravely mistaken. A person close to me is being discriminated and harassed by her LL as a result of financial and mental health issues. Had they been less vulnerable in proper health and employment nobody would dare to take advantage over a simple rent increase.

Graham · 19-03-2020 1:00pm

Mod Note

As the OP has not responded, thread closed.

Priestess101, please don't ask for update on a thread. Please start new threads where you wish to discuss an unrelated subject.

Thanks

Friend Hap was suspended for not paying it

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