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Suspended sentence for killing cyclist

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    #32
    fat bloke
    Registered Users Posts: 5,823 ✭✭✭fat bloke


    It's not a motorway, the cyclist was entirely and completely and 100% entitled to be there and not to be run over. The basics of driving include looking out that big glass windscreen in front of you. A suspended sentence is not adequate punishment or deterrent.


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    #33
    boombang
    Registered Users Posts: 2,108 ✭✭✭boombang


    kub wrote: »
    I cycle, I would not have been there.

    Fair enough. But that man was. He was within his rights to be so too. He also should have an expectation that people would keep their eyes open.


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    #34
    ford2600
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,457 ✭✭✭ford2600


    kub wrote: »
    I cycle, I would not have been there.

    I've cycled that road a few times and the similar N25 east of the tunnel. It's not enjoyable but save once you are hyper alert on exits and merges.

    So much so that if it doubt that vehicle behind might exit be prepared to take exit and come back down the other side.

    While I feel this lady should have served time and a much longer driving ban immediately calling out someone as victim blaming insures the debate becomes polarised people pick sides and nothing is learned.

    The excuse that Defendant was a mother and that should shield her from jail is sexist and bollix. The Deceased family are without him forever and never got to say goodbye; justice has to put a value on his life and his family''s loss.


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    #35
    P_1
    Registered Users Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    If there's one thing to take from this it's that to be extremely careful near sliproads. I think it's a reasonable statement that a dual carriageway with a high speed limit is one of the spots drivers would be least expecting to see a cyclist and given the speeds involved the slightest lapse from a driver (which this case is a tragic example of) the potential for things to go wrong is greater.

    Would it be worthwhile considering going up and down the sliproads rather than staying on the carriageway when on training runs on roads like the N40/N3/N7 etc?


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    #36
    piplip87
    Registered Users Posts: 2,110 ✭✭✭piplip87


    boombang wrote: »
    Apologies if this particular one has been posted elsewhere. It seems this general issue has come up before.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/circuit-court/driver-who-killed-cyclist-in-cork-gets-suspended-sentence-1.3472915

    While the driver sounds remorseful and in no way did a hit and run, I feel that the neglect of responsibility that leads to the death of another needs custodial sentencing. Irrespective of whether it was a cyclist, pedestrian or other driver she neglected her duty of care to others and caused a death. Understandably many may say what would be achieved by putting her in jail. Nothing for the woman in question, but the deterant and associated signal it sends is important. Given that she has small kids it would be very difficult, but I would prefer this woman to serve three months than nothing. I know she's likely to take the regret to her grave in any case, but society has to say this is unacceptable in my opinion.

    Once again I am calling out Sexism in our judicial system. FFS I know a fella that got 6 months for 5 grams of weed. If this was a male there would be no doubt a custodial sentence would have been the end result


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    #37
    ED E
    Registered Users Posts: 36,166 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    Im not sure a custodial would be a net benefit but christ, double the ban and the sentence (still suspended).

    If I threw a hammer over a wall and it smashed a lads skull in you can be sure I'd be jailed for manslaughter. For some reason when its via a car it doesn't count in this little country.


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    #38
    amcalester
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,121 ✭✭✭amcalester


    piplip87 wrote: »
    Once again I am calling out Sexism in our judicial system. FFS I know a fella that got 6 months for 5 grams of weed. If this was a male there would be no doubt a custodial sentence would have been the end result

    Not true.

    3 times the drink driving limit and kill a cyclist?

    Ah sure, €500 fine and a suspended sentence.

    http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/drink-driver-fined-stefan-cooper/

    The issue, as is often the case in Ireland, is judges giving overly lenient sentences.

    https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/judges-accused-of-being-lenient-in-killer-driving-cases-36460559.html


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    #39
    magentis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,249 ✭✭✭magentis


    I didn't know Donal very well but he was a gent.I was doing a job on my car and was struggling with it,he was passing and just helped me out without even asking.Sad to see a young man pass away like that.RIP.


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    #40
    whiskeyman
    Registered Users Posts: 12,564 ✭✭✭✭whiskeyman


    P_1 wrote: »
    If there's one thing to take from this it's that to be extremely careful near sliproads.
    We should be careful 100% of the time regardless.
    I've had friends have blowouts on straight stretches of road, and if it wasn't for their full concentration, they've admitted they don't want to think of the other outcome.

    So many of us still don't understand the dangers of distracted driving.
    Kids, passengers chatting and phone calls (even on handfree) are all distracting and take the drivers attention off the task of driving.

    This is a terribly sad case, but highlights to me the flippancy so many of us have to safe driving. Anything can happen in a split second.

    The RSA had a very powerful ad a while ago, specifically targeting mother's with kids which is too apt:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKUNJMrFeUs


    On another point, if she ploughed into a car killing a young child, I wonder if the sentence would be the same?


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    #41
    detones
    Registered Users Posts: 963 ✭✭✭detones


    From what I’ve seen on these cases there are far more negligent drivers who have had no license or insurance or have left cyclists literally for dead and still not seen jail time. This case is a horrible tragedy and the woman in question will probably never be the same after it, her life will be marred by this forever and she assume still will have a criminal conviction. That probably means nothing to some or the victims friends or family but I do feel little would be served by jailing her and I have read the arguments for the message it sends out but don’t fully agree. We need to start locking up monsters like this fella .....

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/suspended-prison-term-for-driver-who-killed-cyclist-1.1316377


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    #42
    Tenzor07
    Registered Users Posts: 8,579 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    Here's my 2cents...

    Doesn't matter if this woman driving the car had killed a granny crossing the road, a kid on a scooter or a man on a bicycle, if you're not in control of your vehicle at all times by the fact of not watching where you are going due to a mobile phone, sat nav or the sun in your eyes, then you should at very least completely forfeit your right to ever hold a licence to drive a vehicle in this country...

    The fact that she won't serve prison time means her children will never have to suffer the loss that the innocent deceased man's family will have to live with every single day for the rest of their lives.. and that's not justice... She will be free to drive a vehicle in 5 years, back on the roads..


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    #43
    pearcider
    Registered Users Posts: 1,033 ✭✭✭pearcider


    It's well known that women get much lighter sentences. Combine that with the usual Irish judicial leniency and the suspended sentence was predictable. Still stomach turning for the family. I do think it's bordering on farcical that she will only lose her driving licence for 5 years for killing someone with her car. That's just unbelievable.


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    #44
    lalababa
    Registered Users Posts: 1,726 ✭✭✭lalababa


    Was she exiting ? Or just veered left? He was wholey within his rights if it is a dual carraigway. I drive that road alot and often wondered what classification it was. I cycle alot as well and wouldn't go near it as it would be leathal with the main culprit being the exit and slipway entrances. Imagine cycling along at 12 mph with traffic trying to exit and join at 70mph and above. All that said, even though there seems to be few accidents on the south ring I find alot of speeding and tailgating, so I imagine not much enforcement.


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    #45
    fritzelly
    Registered Users Posts: 17,307 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    Too lenient a sentence, should always have your eyes on the road when driving - reason for banning phones etc.
    Being a mother should not excuse you from punishment - maybe it will give the kids a message in the future if they ever drive - some custodial sentence was needed. You can say how much you are devastated by the incident and you can never forgive yourself, but probably all forgotten about not much later, she has basically got off scott free after killing someone

    Should be a manslaughter charge in any case of someone driving a car and you kill someone bar uncontrollable circumstance like a blown tyre etc


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    #46
    De Bhál
    Registered Users Posts: 2,855 ✭✭✭De Bhál


    detones wrote: »
    From what I’ve seen on these cases there are far more negligent drivers who have had no license or insurance or have left cyclists literally for dead and still not seen jail time. This case is a horrible tragedy and the woman in question will probably never be the same after it, her life will be marred by this forever and she assume still will have a criminal conviction. That probably means nothing to some or the victims friends or family but I do feel little would be served by jailing her and I have read the arguments for the message it sends out but don’t fully agree. We need to start locking up monsters like this fella .....

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/suspended-prison-term-for-driver-who-killed-cyclist-1.1316377

    That's sickening.


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    #47
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,527 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    eeguy wrote: »
    It could have happened any one of us really. No one has 100% concentration all the time and it would be especially difficult with children in the back.
    Sending the mother to jail would only deprive her children.
    RIP to the poor cyclist and his family.

    If she, or you, or anyone is unable to drive safely with kids in the back, then she shouldn't be driving with kids in the back. It's that simple.


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    #48
    ayux4rj6zql2ph
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,001 ✭✭✭ayux4rj6zql2ph


    This post has been deleted.


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    #49
    eeeee
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 6,831 Mod ✭✭✭✭eeeee


    I'm not sure locking up people does much good in the majority of cases (That's a topic for another thread), but if you kill someone with your car and it's your fault you should never be given a license to drive again for the rest of your life without exception. It beggars belief that she will be behind the wheel again in 5 years time. That is so so so wrong.

    His family are without a father, bother, son, his friends bereft - what value a life? I think her sentence was unduly lenient, and her gender and the fact that she is a mother certainly played a part.


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    #50
    Rubberchikken
    Registered Users Posts: 5,083 ✭✭✭Rubberchikken


    Everything, guilty plea remorse kids etc taken into account, suspended is to be expected imo.
    I would have taken her licence off of her for a lot longer than 5 years (i think), and i wouldnt have waited until 1st july for it to come into effect.
    Have to wonder if shes driving at present. Tbh i think if it had bern me i might never sit into a car again.

    Im not a perfect driver, but some of the inattention i see on the roads makes me wonder how more arent dead.


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    #51
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,017 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    The suspended sentence is normal for a first offence which is not a deliberate act.

    I agree that a lifetime driving ban is appropriate. Sure, it changes your lifestyle a bit but there are loads of people who don't drive, managing fine with public transport and even....cycling.


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    #52
    C3PO
    Registered Users Posts: 3,744 ✭✭✭C3PO


    As others have said, I don't believe a custodial sentence would have benefited anybody but a lifetime driving ban should have been imposed.


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    #53
    Thinkingaboutit
    Registered Users Posts: 2,183 ✭✭✭Thinkingaboutit


    eeguy wrote: »
    But it's not going to deter anyone.
    A case like this won't deter most mothers from having a quick look around to help their child.

    Will a mother pull off a motorway and find a safe space to pull in to grab the bottle her baby just dropped and is screaming for. Or will she have a quick look into the back seat and grab it?


    Your personal preference has zero to do with this discussion.

    A 'quick turn around to help their child?'

    He died because of a gross and stupid error. If in charge of a car, or anything that could do damage, you watch ahead when moves forward. That someone is a mother or whatever, doesn't exempt her from the rules of physics, common sense etc.

    This says to the likes of some woman I saw Facetiming this morning that all she need do if she kills a cyclist is to pout, look sad in the courtroom.

    Salutary reminder of another hazardous category of road user along with taxi or van drivers.

    At minimum if she lost her licence, her children would be healthier and more independent as they'd have to walk or take a bus.


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    #54
    Macy0161
    Registered Users Posts: 9,293 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    Disgustingly lenient sentence imo - it sends out an awful message of the value of other road users lives. 5 year ban which will probably be cut anyway. Talk of guilt etc., is a load of bull. I'd say the victims family would've been happy with weekly visits to still see him alive - I don't buy in to the "what good would it do" - it would provide a real consequence.

    It also shows what utter bs the whole hi viz debate is - if drivers are distracted and not looking, it doesn't bloody matter.


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    #55
    JPCN1
    Registered Users Posts: 887 ✭✭✭JPCN1


    Custodial sentences should be reserved for repeat or violent offenders. No problem with plenty of community service in this case. Personally I'd find it very difficult to live with myself if I were in her shoes and she'll carry that with her all her days.


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    #56
    Addle
    Registered Users Posts: 4,812 ✭✭✭Addle


    Thinkingaboutit wrote: »
    all she need do if she kills a cyclist is to pout, look sad in the courtroom.
    Her life is devastated.


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    #57
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Same here I think that a custodial sentence will serve no benefit. If the risk of killing a man isn't enough to deter someone or make them cop on, then the threat of jail time won't either.

    Like others, I think anyone found to be at fault (even partially) in a collision where someone has died, should lose their licence permanently. It's literally the worst error you can make while driving, there should be no second chances.
    In any fatal collision all parties should have their licences temporarily suspended until an investigation is finished.


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    #58
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,017 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Addle wrote: »
    Her life is devastated.
    What does that even mean? She currently feels really guilty? So what?


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    #59
    Hurrache
    Registered Users Posts: 10,165 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    Addle wrote: »
    Her life is devastated.

    But she still has one.


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    #60
    Johnny Jukebox
    Registered Users Posts: 656 ✭✭✭Johnny Jukebox


    I agree that little is to be gained by jailing in this case.

    Should have been banned from driving for life, although in practical terms, what is the likelihood of ever getting insurance with a conviction of that nature on your record ?


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    #61
    Macy0161
    Registered Users Posts: 9,293 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    Addle wrote: »
    Her life is devastated.
    So she pleaded in the court for a non-custodial sentence...


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