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Survey on prospective house: planning permission concern

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  • 19-02-2019 11:39am
    #1
    mkdon
    Registered Users Posts: 419 ✭✭


    hi there

    maybe someone can assist on this without incurring massive solicitor fees

    survey on prospective house had said "The driveway has been widened and this requires planning permission and certification. This should be mentioned to your solicitor"
    would this present problems? anyone with any prior experience please assist


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    #2
    Askthe EA
    Registered Users Posts: 724 ✭✭✭Askthe EA


    mkdon wrote: »
    hi there

    maybe someone can assist on this without incurring massive solicitor fees

    survey on prospective house had said "The driveway has been widened and this requires planning permission and certification. This should be mentioned to your solicitor"
    would this present problems? anyone with any prior experience please assist

    Ya, so basically the current owners of the house widened the driveway pillars and should have gotten planning for it and your engineer is flagging that for your solicitor. Perhaps they did get planning. This is very common.

    Your solicitor will request a certificate of compliance or a declaration of exempted development.

    Assuming they did it without permission, they may need to give a stat declaration that the work was carried out more than 7 years ago (once a change has been present for 7 years you cannot be forced to undo it).

    The banks own legal department will then look at the situation. Worse case, the current owners must pay for the wall to be put back to its original condition.


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    #3
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,163 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    More likely the owners would put in a special condition in the contract saying that you have to take as is.


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    #4
    mkdon
    Registered Users Posts: 419 ✭✭mkdon


    Claw Hammer wrote: »
    More likely the owners would put in a special condition in the contract saying that you have to take as is.

    what would that mean at my end .... applying fit planning permission at my end?


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    #5
    Askthe EA
    Registered Users Posts: 724 ✭✭✭Askthe EA


    mkdon wrote: »
    what would that mean at my end .... applying fit planning permission at my end?

    It really depends on your banks take on the situation which comes down to your LTV. The current owners may have to apply for retention to sell to you and if they are unwilling you may not be able to buy.

    On the other hand, if it was done years ago and your LTV is lower its therefore less of a risk to the bank and they might be ok with it.


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    #6
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,549 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    mkdon wrote: »
    what would that mean at my end .... applying fit planning permission at my end?

    You or the current owner will need to apply for Retention Planning Permission to keep the widened vehicular entrance.

    If your solicitor picks up on it, then he has to let the bank know that the title is not planning compliant and the bank will refuse to release the funds.

    Depending on location and the actual width of the gates, retention should be straight forward, but you'll have to pay a planning agent to prepare the planning application and wait the 3 months or so for the final grant.


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    #7
    mkdon
    Registered Users Posts: 419 ✭✭mkdon


    kceire wrote: »
    You or the current owner will need to apply for Retention Planning Permission to keep the widened vehicular entrance.

    If your solicitor picks up on it, then he has to let the bank know that the title is not planning compliant and the bank will refuse to release the funds.

    Depending on location and the actual width of the gates, retention should be straight forward, but you'll have to pay a planning agent to prepare the planning application and wait the 3 months or so for the final grant.

    I am confused about this

    this will delay the entire process right ?


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    #8
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,163 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    mkdon wrote: »
    I am confused about this

    this will delay the entire process right ?

    Delay or abort it entirely.


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    #9
    Askthe EA
    Registered Users Posts: 724 ✭✭✭Askthe EA


    Claw Hammer wrote: »
    Delay or abort it entirely.

    Indeed. Speak to your solicitor, theyre bound to have dealt with this before.


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    #10
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,549 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    mkdon wrote: »
    I am confused about this

    this will delay the entire process right ?

    Yes.


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    #11
    mkdon
    Registered Users Posts: 419 ✭✭mkdon


    kceire wrote: »
    Yes.

    do you have previous experience ? how much did it delay it for u


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    #12
    Askthe EA
    Registered Users Posts: 724 ✭✭✭Askthe EA


    mkdon wrote: »
    do you have previous experience ? how much did it delay it for u

    He cant answer that. It depends on your own situation. If planning is required and the vendor is agreeable to applying for retention then it will delay it by about 3 months.

    If your solicitor doesnt believe its an issue, it wont hold you up at all. Ask your solicitor.


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    #13
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,549 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    mkdon wrote: »
    do you have previous experience ? how much did it delay it for u

    I'm usually the one called in to regularize it.

    If the vendor wants to sort the issue out, he will most likely spend a week getting quotes from Architects, Planning Agents etc

    The Planning Agent will take 2 weeks to allow for survey of the site, preparation of the plans, arrangement of newspaper notices, maps and printing and finally lodgement and erection of the site notice.

    Then a decision will be made 8 weeks later.
    4 weeks after that, the final grant is issued and then the house can be sold as the during those 4 weeks, an appeal can be sent to An Board Pleanala by an adjoining landowner, even if they haven't objected to the original Planning Application.


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    #14
    MagicBusDriver1
    Registered Users Posts: 110 ✭✭MagicBusDriver1


    How wide is the driveway? If it is over 3.6 m, it will need to be narrowed if you are to regularise the situation.


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    #15
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,549 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    MagicBusDriver1 wrote: »
    How wide is the driveway? If it is over 3.6 m, it will need to be narrowed if you are to regularise the situation.

    3.6 is the max as per Dublin City Councils Development Plan, but, they may condition it narrower depending on the streetscape and street in question.


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    #16
    Markcheese
    Registered Users Posts: 8,431 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    kceire wrote: »
    3.6 is the max as per Dublin City Councils Development Plan, but, they may condition it narrower depending on the streetscape and street in question.

    Max for the driveway is 3.6 meters, or max for the entrance (and dishing of pavement) is 3.6?

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



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    #17
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,549 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Markcheese wrote: »
    Max for the driveway is 3.6 meters, or max for the entrance (and dishing of pavement) is 3.6?

    Max for the vehicular entrance within the front boundary.

    The pavement dishing is done by the R&T Department and they generally will match the entrance in place. It is not part of the Planning, nor is planning required for the dishing of the public footpath. That's an after job that you pay the council to do once planning / retention is in place.


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    #18
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,853 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    I'd never been aware there was a limit to the width - does this mean that people who tar/gravel/cobblelock the entire front are in breach? Or is it just the opening that's limited?

    As far as I know my estate was built with US-like fully open lawns and 90% of people have since built fences or walls. My fence was rotting away and after checking with the neighbours I took it down entirely so it's back to open - or open for the first time if I'm wrong. If it had been fenced from day 1 / on plans would this be in breach?


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    #19
    4ensic15
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    L1011 wrote: »
    I'd never been aware there was a limit to the width - does this mean that people who tar/gravel/cobblelock the entire front are in breach? Or is it just the opening that's limited?

    Up to 2 car spaces can be covered without planning permission. Any further coverage needs planning.


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    #20
    Rew
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,679 Mod ✭✭✭✭Rew


    Is planning required to narrow a vehicular entrance?


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    #21
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,549 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    L1011 wrote: »
    I'd never been aware there was a limit to the width - does this mean that people who tar/gravel/cobblelock the entire front are in breach? Or is it just the opening that's limited?

    As far as I know my estate was built with US-like fully open lawns and 90% of people have since built fences or walls. My fence was rotting away and after checking with the neighbours I took it down entirely so it's back to open - or open for the first time if I'm wrong. If it had been fenced from day 1 / on plans would this be in breach?

    The planning relates to the widening of the entrance itself, not the hard surfacing of the internal garden, but, in some cases I’ve done, the planner will condition a small % of self landscaping in order to keep some natural drainage in place.
    Rew wrote: »
    Is planning required to narrow a vehicular entrance?

    Technically, yes. Any alteration to a vehicular entrance requires planning.


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    #22
    GoWhest
    Registered Users Posts: 42 ✭GoWhest


    This happened to me last year when I was buying. Drive was put in without planning. Solicitor asked for a affidavit from the vendors to say it had been there for more than 7 years. He then wrote to the bank and asked them if they were okay with it, which they were. It caused a delay of about 3 weeks. After the sale concluded I called Dublin city council about getting dishing. Thought I would need retention but they said if I send them a copy of the affidavit and pay the fee they'd do it.


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    #23
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,549 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    GoWhest wrote: »
    This happened to me last year when I was buying. Drive was put in without planning. Solicitor asked for a affidavit from the vendors to say it had been there for more than 7 years. He then wrote to the bank and asked them if they were okay with it, which they were. It caused a delay of about 3 weeks. After the sale concluded I called Dublin city council about getting dishing. Thought I would need retention but they said if I send them a copy of the affidavit and pay the fee they'd do it.

    Once you provide the affidavit, they will dish the path no problem. Obviously charge you the 750e give or take.

    The issue arises if its reported, the planning enforcement will open a file. They will quickly close it it due to been there 7 years, but then you go to sell again, and the search shows up previous enforcement actions and the site remains non planning compliant.

    It may stop a sale, or it may not as in your case, it totally depends on the lending bank.


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